Ralex you don't fool me for one second with that notion that you a christen and you Igbo, no proud Igbo man would stupidly post the kind of nonsense you just posted. Please re frame  from calling yourself an Igbo man before you get hit by thunder.

Ralex your brothers in the north Hausa (ANIMALS) are still stock in the 14 and 15 century,  not till you guys realize we in the year 2006 Islam will never be a peaceful religion.

I see these people every day here in Iraq, I know I'm not suppose to question my orders but I'm starting to ask myself what the hell I'm doing here helping these ungrateful basters.Just two days ago, I lost  a good friend we went to Airborn school with. Those cowards shoot him from  behind when he was helping out some poor kid.

The police has arrested many of the demonstrators who participated in this barbaric act. This unfortunate casualties are partly as a result of these radical muslims' apparent inability to differentiate between Danish cartoons and Nigerian southerners who live in the north. We must not fall into the same trap by putting all Northerners and muslims in the same category as these brutes.

The brutes who killed 16 southerners in the name of religion are criminals and nothing more. That they are muslims or northerners is just an accident of history. Murderers will always look for reasons to kill. Let us try to acknowledge the difference between mainstream Islam and cold-blooded murder.

@Charlisco
      If we talk of the 19th Century do not forget the NAZIs and Aryan supremency or the Klu Klux Klan and the beastiliy they wrecked.  though it has nothing to do with Religion it shows you how easily humna beings degenerate to animals if they believe something even that be false
      Human beings are fundamently ANIMALS ( and has a little of robotic instincts) including everybody in this forum and all making posts here calling others animals. In u all lies a depth of untold violence. Pushed to the wall u are all capable of  beastly reaction. And if carefull "Programmed" could also be no different from those mullahs.
We have seen it over and over again in history , The Acncient christians that burnt people and destroyed whole civilization, the NAZIs and stupid Ayran Supremency ideology, The Klu Klux Klan and their white supremency and most recently the moslems and the American soilders. So do not



@nferyn
   

nferyn:


1. Europe and the US are very different. Do not talk about European attitudes and refer to US business practices as an example
2. The freedom of press, speech and opinion are essential in the functioning of western democracies. Nobody in Europe is going to accept censorship
3. Even though the publishing of those cartoons showed bad taste and a lack of respect for muslim sensibilities, it is still protected as free speech.


6. After those protests and the completely disproportionate reactions, European countries had no choice but to oppose any form of censorship. This was no longer about the lack of sensitivity of a Danish newspaper, but about the deliberate attack at one of the core values of contemporary European society. A line had to be drawn.
This is not about correctly evaluating Islam, this is about a tendency to go back to a soft form of theocracy (a very touchy subject in Europe). Religious feelings and sensibilities that trump free speech is something that is never going to be accepted in Europe and it shouldn't be tolerated at all.
The moderate muslims in Europe, even though they oppose the violent reactions, still don't understand the importance of free speech in an open democratic society. By calling for censorship, they have put themselves in a marginal position within Europe. As long as these people do not allow criticism and especially self-criticism things are not going to improve.

1) Well u r right there, American companies are one thing but what of Shell and the rest and their double standards
2 & 3) In as much as the freedom of free speechis essential, is it not obvious that it does not apply everywhere and each region should be treated in such ways as to meet their own standards. Is it right to use measures applicable to one region to apply to another region?! I agree with u that it shows bad taste but they passed up several chances to make amends when it was local before it went international because the Danish muslims first complained and asked for retraction, Had they regarded them with any form of respect at all it would have been retracted. To say "I do not know that this offends u much, I will not do it again " Is not a sign of weakness or lack of free speech either
European countries took the stance to protect themselves against a " deliberate attack at one of the core values of contemporary European society" should they not also have extended that courtesy to the Islamic world at large?
The moderate moslems of Europe do not understand free speech because it is embebed in their pysche and unpbring to be carefull of uterances. We should respect that.
(nferyn I like your response sha u and charlisco r the only ones responding intelligently)

@Txlonghorn
   Nwa nna m, Onye malu ihe ga esi okwu ya solu ya nso. ( My brother, if u know what will cause problems avoid it) Am a core Igbo man and christian. Even the thunder (Egbe eligwe) of Amadioha will have no effect on me. I know the God I serve.
    U call them Animals. I do not disagree with u. But what will u call the American soilders who humiliated and totured Inmates in Abu gari or whatever prison. What will u call ur fellow soilders who dehumiliated their fellow men because they are to be victorious. Men, women who call themselves soilder took oath of defensding the defensiless now turn in to animals and u cast the first stone ?! U r wearing the same uniform as they are I presume. And speaking of being Igbo SInce when has the Igbo man started fighting another man's war! or staying @ America did it change ur core value?
     By the way, u r helping what people in Iraq My friend do not bring up the Iraqi invansion every fool knows it was all about OIL, OIL, OIL and more OIL. If Iraqi had  WMD America would never had attacked, u will not be there; They would have gone to a negotiating table. Why have they not attacked North Korea ?! Because North Korea among other things has WMD and has demostrated their willingness to use. Speak of double standards. U an igbo man is there fighing and endangering your life while Chency (or whatever is his name)  and his company Harliburton is making billions in income. Kudos
@Evilslayer
   Pls do go to sleep u have no constructive agurement to put forward on this thread. U will have classes tomorrow go and sleep. It is morning here.

Illiteracy is a major problem battling the Northern Nigeria and sadly until they are properly rescue from its yoke they'll continue to pose serious danger to the Nigerian entity. The North lack autonomous social conscience that have come to characterize the southern part of the country and so the only outlet for protest is through religion. You won't see northerners protest anything else other than religious related. This is not good. As for the riot itself the Nigerian government ought to have anticipated it and averted it easily in my opinion but I guess Obasanjo is more interested in 'securing the oil business' with bombs in Niger-Delta and isn't paying attention or he is simply incompetent.

To advance a balanced discussion, why cant we have the cartoons in question posted here? How can we squabble about something that most of us haven’t seen? I call on my Muslim friends to post the cartoons in question, and make clear to us why they are deeply insulted. I will also expect the non-Muslims in our midst to tell us why they (the Muslims) shouldn’t be.

Ralex:

@nferyn

1) Well you're right there, American companies are one thing but what of Shell and the rest and their double standards

No doubt about that, but due to the structure of multi-national corporations, they act a-morally at best, immorally at worst. I certainly do not put European businesses at a higher moral plane than American ones. It's the difference in core societal values I'm talking about. Might (money) makes right is much more accepted in the US than it is in most of Europe.

Ralex:

2 & 3) In as much as the freedom of free speechis essential, is it not obvious that it does not apply everywhere and each region should be treated in such ways as to meet their own standards. Is it right to use measures applicable to one region to apply to another region?!

I find this actually quite simple. Within most European countries, the freedom of speech is constitutionally guaranteed. Even if the government would want to impose censorship, they do not have the legal means to do so. Within Europe, nobody has the right to ask for censorship, if somebody wants such a thing, they should try to change the respective constitutions through the parliamentary process. I doubt they will have much traction, though.
The fact remains that those Muslim groups try to impose their value system on the rest of society. It's not as if they are forced to draw offensive pictures of Muhammed themselves, is it? Europeans decided that freedom of speech is important to them, they're not on a quest (a crusade, I might say) to bring democracy to those Muslim countries. To be honest Europe is still recovering mentally and morally from past attempts in that direction.

Ralex:

I agree with u that it shows bad taste but they passed up several chances to make amends when it was local before it went international because the Danish muslims first complained and asked for retraction, Had they regarded them with any form of respect at all it would have been retracted.

Sorry to call a spade a spade, but I find that bullshit. That Danish newspaper was quite hypocritical, but that does not mean that amends needed to be made, on the contrary. The moment those protests became violent, I would rather have expected the opposite.
Respect is usually a cover-up for appeasement and thought control. What exectly deserved respect here?

Ralex:

To say "I do not know that this offends u much, I will not do it again " Is not a sign of weakness or lack of free speech either
European countries took the stance to protect themselves against a " deliberate attack at one of the core values of contemporary European society" should they not also have extended that courtesy to the Islamic world at large?

They didn't even start by trying to explain how offensive it was, but rather first called for censorship and only after they heard it fell on deaf ears did they try to explain the reason why it was so offensive to them. And the moment those Danish Imams went to campaign in the Muslim world, it indeed became an attack on free speech. There was one Jordanian person they interviewed during those protests. He was saying that he couldn't believe that the Danish government was so weak that they even couldn't shut up a meagre newspaper. That's shows the complete lack of understanding of how European society works.

Wht courtesy are you talking about exactly?

Ralex:

The moderate moslems of Europe do not understand free speech because it is embebed in their pysche and unpbring to be carefull of uterances. We should respect that.
(nferyn I like your response sha u and charlisco r the only ones responding intelligently)

Why should we respect that. I agree that much more needs to be done to educate these people on the functioning of European societies, but they chose to immigrate after all. I doubt the same tolerance would be exhibited if Europeans in those Middle Eastern countries would ask for respect for their values in the same manner?

Illiteracy may be a major problem facing Northern Nigeria and it may also be a contributing factor in the incessant religious riots in the north.
What baffles me though is how a rational person(you dont need book knowledge to be rational) will attack some trader in Maiduguri for some cartoon published in Denmark by an oyibo (not even a blakc man taslk less Igbo).
I feel some elements in the north have being and will continue to use religion as a foil for their attempts to exterminate the Igbo man.

Well people lets classify the people that engage in this nefarious barbaric act as animals, I have lots of non violent Muslim friends, and they will never fight never the less kill an innocent soul. All the people fighting and killing are just trying to find a reason to associate with the Muslim world

It's a great pity. Innocent lifes wasted for nothing. People who knew nothing about the Denmark cartoon issue. People who travelled to Maiduguri to earn a livelihood. People who obviously may have not been to Denmark before. One thing some people fail to realise is that NOBODY HAS MONOPOLY OF VIOLENCE. Those who do such things in the name of God will definitely rot in the hottest chamber of hell with homosexuals as their bed mates. Lets wait until the corpses start getting down south for burial, especially the east, and it would be tit for tat. It's really crazy! ANYBODY WHO KILLS SHOULD BE KILLED! PERIOD! NO SENTIMENTS. When the hausa were slaughtered in Aba in retaliation some time back, the beastly activities initiated by the northern killers stopped!

I am happy I am a Christian cause My God do preach non violence religion, and again, how will all the Hausa's feel if we start chasing them out of Ibadan, Lagos or Enugu? This is one of the reasoned why I think the next president should come from the south or west. Hausa man will just turn the other cheek

@Ralex:

Replying to your post is like flogging a dead horse. Are you seeing things through another process or just exposing your stark illiteracy?

@GL:

Fully understand your pain and anger my sister. i served one whole year in yola, Adamawa state and now i fully understand why the northerners have consistently shut down all clamours for a federal system of government and fiscal federalism. They have ABSOLUTELY NOTHING in terms of resources (both natural and human) and WHOLY depend on southern oil and human resources to survive. Take out the south and you are left with Niger or Chad!

@Darqly:

Sorry, being a "christian" does not remove the fact that you are northern. I have interacted with northern christians and sorry they are NOT and can never be equated with any southerner, christian or muslim. It is still the same lazy, dirty and violent mental attitude and less about the religion that makes the north Nigeria's worst albatross and NOT CORRUPTION  as we are made to believe!
Sorry, if Nigeria splits, YOU go with the North and not a "christians go someplace together and muslims one place", when you say that are u assuming we'll allow our peaceloving muslim southern folks to go with your barbaric northern muslims?

Points to note:

Nigeria's problem is NOT corruption but:
1. The albatross that is the dry and arid lands and brains in the NORTH!!! chikena!

i rest my case. time to build a large northern ZOO!!!!

people are too quick to jump on the band wagon. just because they are protesting and fighting else where, does not give you the go ahead to fight. and why are Nigerians always too late? the whole thing is starting to die down then they decide to start their own. are they just hearing about it?

another thing, with the number of things that has been said about Christianity, if they started burning down mosques, temples etc, and started killing people, how many people will be left in the world? can someone answer me that?

Men i heard the death toll's been upped from 16 to a whooping 58!!! wtf, ?!

@Ralex,
Are you blind or what, what does Ancient christian get to do with this issue, ok i agree with u, but i think Pope John Paul II had asked for forgiveness to the world to forgive those wrong did done in the name of christianity, remeber the muslim also committed atrocity too in the past,
so what is you point of defence, let forget about those old past, since the two religion invoved are guilt of it.
I know those muslim in the north are doing such (killing of 16 innocent head), just to pleased their muslim brother word wide

Ralex, i want you to hold a peaceful riot along side your muslim brother, to demonstrate that those act are not done my muslim, i think that will lessen the heat here

You guys are talking bullshit here. Lazy northern ingrates that will do nothing for a living other than beg and eat free food from the rich in their communities, sees the opportunity to exert violence because of the jealousy they have been piling up for years against the Ibo's that came to open up their place and earn a living for themselves.
Ignorant, violent animals that most probably did not even see the pictures in question, and would not have known it was the prophet muhammed that was depicted in it even if they had seen it, decided to take laws into their hands to take the lives of innocent southerners who might not even have seen the cartoons, and are not even concerned about it.
How do you expect an Ibo man like me to keep cool and say "one nigeria", when these disgraceful acts keep repeating it self over and over again. The fact is that even if we decide to wipe out all northerners in the east, it'll be just cobblers(shoe menders), suya people, and all other low standing northerners that would be found, and their lost lives would not count to anything compared with the industrious and illustrious Ibo's found in the north.
May the soul of the lost rest in peace, but for the wicked, that day, you won't be able to escape, I promise you.

Onwudibad:

You guys are talking bullshit here. Lazy northern ingrates that will do nothing for a living other than beg and eat free food from the rich in their communities, sees the opportunity to exert violence because of the jealousy they have been piling up for years against the Ibo's that came to open up their place and earn a living for themselves.
Ignorant, violent animals that most probably did not even see the pictures in question, and would not have known it was the prophet muhammed that was depicted in it even if they had seen it, decided to take laws into their hands to take the lives of innocent southerners who might not even have seen the cartoons, and are not even concerned about it.
How do you expect an Ibo man like me to keep cool and say "one nigeria", when these disgraceful acts keep repeating it self over and over again. The fact is that even if we decide to wipe out all northerners in the east, it'll be just cobblers(shoe menders), suya people, and all other low standing northerners that would be found, and their lost lives would not count to anything compared with the industrious and illustrious Ibo's found in the north.
May the soul of the lost rest in peace, but for the wicked, that day, you won't be able to escape, I promise you.

Thank you my brother for your input I coun't have said it any better.It's good to know that I'm not the only one that knows the Igbos are getting the short hand of the stick. Those Aminals attack the defenseless,hard working Igbo traders for no reason.I don't leave in Nigeria, how come I never hear the Igbos attacking the useless Hausa peeple in Onitsha or Enugu. And may the souls of the dead rest in peace.

, "a man watched helplessly, his 6 children being killed yesterday in the demonstration by d rioters".

sum1 tell me wat could b worse dan dat situation?

So sad,may their souls rest in peace.

Ralex,

I’m tired of hearing this lame excuse about the Crusades. That was then, Christians haven’t done such in a long while. It’s muslims who are doing it now and all we’re saying is it must stop. Mind you, it was Christians who stopped the killings. Now we’re asking muslims to do the same; we can’t fold our hands and say Christians once did it so it’s their turn. Plus the Crusades took place in Europe – this is taking place in Europe, Middle East, Asia, Africa (may God not let it spread to North America, cos then they’ll have taken over the world).

However, as I stated earlier that was Europe – this is Nigeria. These ppl – northern muslims – have always done this. Isn’t this insanity – someone said something about a group you belong to in a far away country and you begin to kill people in your country, many of whom don’t even know there was any cartoon. They burnt 30 churches and killed a priest and several others.

Concerning the Danish press, I believe they didn’t have to do it since they knew muslims would react with violence. However, it is their country they didn’t put it in an international paper, it was in a small local paper. Thus, I think those who really should be at their worst is the Danish muslims and they are taking it with a lot of maturity. Denmark isn’t a muslim country. Just as muslims have their values – not drawing their prophet – the Danes have theirs – freedom of speech/ expression. Just as muslims expect others to respect their values, they should learn to respect the values of others too. Especially when they are immigrants. Majority of muslims in Europe are immigrants and they must learn to respect the culture and values of Europeans, afterall they weren’t forced to live there. And if they don’t like it they should live. I would never go to most Islamic countries because I don’t want to be bound by their laws. They shouldn’t expect every country they go to to change their laws for them.

You mentioned the muslims in the South West. They, Yoruba muslims, are different because they realize that they are in a secular society and their religion cannot become the culture here. They respect the rules of the land and other religions.

Pls I would love you, Ralex, and Cushman to comment on the fact that some muslim militants added more derogatory drawings of Muhammed to incite more violence. For some reason, no one is talking about that. Why?

if their Muhammed is a true son of God, why can't he fight for himself.

Giddy, in those few well-chosen words, you have very neatly summed up the muslims' mass hysteria and the utter absurdity of these aptly named cartoon riots.

@!GL
The world is a global village now. What happens @ one end could have repercussions at the other. A small community in denmark is just a few click of the mouse button away from being international. The crusades (or Jihads) might be centuries ago but the evolution took time. It was not spontaneous. As much as we abhor it, As much as we dislike it, this violence will not disappear overnight. Its a fact of life. The stake holders has to work on together in mutual respect, tolerance and occassionally exhibiting a forceful willingness to use violence.

For the additional image added , mischief makers were given ammunition.

Northern Nigeria has always been a hot bed or religious violence. (I abhor the violence in all its entirity) Only CAN took a proactive step to avoid the violence by making a public annoucement on the 14th Condemning the cartoons. What did the Government do ?? Nothing, nothing. CAN anticipated it but has always been a minority player in the politics of northern Nigeria. The State and Federal Government and security outft were all caught napping. They contributed to the mayhem by failling in their primary duty. Provision of security.


@Charlisco
Am niether Blind or a muslim. But u can call me a muslim if u like. Maybe a head Imam will in 20 years from now make a public annoucement apologising for the havocs these mullahs has wrecked. But it still does not mean that the crimes has not been commited and lives were not lost the apology in the future will not stop the problem now.
Am not defending the actions of these mullahs am pointing out those who contributed to shattering d peace.
Not that I do not feel violent as u, as an Igbo man, I feel we should anwer deadly force with deadly force. But am willing to look at the problem in a broader perspective. Our problem is beyond The east and the west, the north and the south , Christians and Muslims. Individuals for selfish purposes focus on this divisions. In so doing they miss the core of the problem. TO SOLVE A PROBLEM GO TO THE ROOT.
1) Our problem is in the quality of leaders we have,
2)  The two-faced approach of international community to issues regarding those not directly affecting them.
3) We Christians ourselves: We allow ourselves to be slayed and do not fight back not necessarily physically but economically and politically as well.


@davidylan
Sometimes there are lessons to learn from flogging dead horses. In fact flogging dead horses like using a superior process to reinvestigate what others consider as a closed end  has made people billionaiers

I think something else must have trigered that riot in the northern part of Nigeria, but if it is thesame catoon thing, meeeeen they need deliverance.

lets face it Islam is synonymous with terrorism

No, it is not. Read this post by a muslim.

thelma2:

lets face it Islam is synonymous with terrorism

No it is not. Maybe some who does not understand Islam misinterprete the Koran to suit themselves but that does not mean it is synonymous with terrorism.
To make such cliams will be the same to say because of the IRA of Ireland that "catholicism is synonymous with terrorism"

seun, u are stupid, why do u remove the mohamed cartoon i posted. i posted 4 jesus cartoon u did not remove them, why this one. if you do it one more time this forum will be story.

It's very convenient for to blame the incessant killings on hooligans and criminals. There are enough criminals and hooligans in the south but they rarely go off killing Fulani cattle rearers at the slightest provacation. Even in cases of genuine grievances over crop distruction by cattle. It's the duty of the rational Muslims to educate the ignorant ones amongst them. There must be concrete effort on their part and seen by all of us, to stop this madness. Anything short of that, is a failure in making this Nigeria experiment work. No man holds a monopoly over violence. A stitch in time saves nine.

See that's all we Nigerians are ever good at; Talk, Talk and Talk. I bet you if you go out the the cab stand at DFW airport you'll see exactly what I mean. Nigerian cab drivers in the hundreds doing nothing but discussing Nigerian politics from dusk till done. Nigeria is on it's way to become an Islamic nation and all we can do is set our ass down and talk,talk and talk.

My dear friends,
In my last posting on the barbaric killings in the north, I told us all that nobody and I mean NOBODY has monopoly of violence. He who kills should be killed in return. There should be any room for repentance! I told us that we should wait until the corpses of the innocent souls massacred get down to the south, then we would SEE. Nobody or group of people can hide under the guise of any religion, belief, ethnic group or creed to wreck havoc on others. That period has passed. It's now tit for tat. If you don't value the lives my people, tell me, WHY SHOULD I VALUE YOUR PEOPLES LIVES? More than 15 moslems were killed yesterday (unfortunate though) in Onitsha in a reprisal attack. MASSOB has given the northerners an ultimatum to vacate the south east. The moslems have also killed more in Bauchi state. I guess we should all wait and see where these would end. When people say our country is a failed state, SOME SAY NO.

I just got off the phone with a friend of mine in Enugu,and his telling me the just getting reports that the Hausa's are getting attacked in Aba. The fighting is spearding people.

On the news today,that the Ibos my fellow brothers have started killing the hausa abokis when the bodies of their loved ones were brought in from the North,it is a very good one, and I hope and believ that this will serve as a lesson for all those abokis.