when he knew us before we were even born.?...why will create us and watch us sin and died?

I don't understand what you mean by "knew ". Please explain

Gben5:
when he knew us before we were even born.?...why will create us and watch us sin and died?

Because "he" works in mysterious ways.
How dare you question him?

Jashub:
I don't understand what you mean "knew ". Please explain

For an omniscient God, the alpha and omega, the beginning and the end, "he" certainly "knew" everything, the beginning from the end, the end from the beginning.

Unless you want to engage in a pointless and dishonest mental gymnastics, that shouldn't escape you.

Danhumprey:
For an omniscient God, the alpha and omega, the beginning and the end, "he" certainly "knew" everything, the beginning from the end, the end from the beginning.

Unless you want to engage in a pointless and dishonest mental gymnastics, that shouldn't escape you.

Knowing does not mean determining. Hope you know that quite well...

Danhumprey:


Because "he" works in mysterious ways.
How dare you question him?

I'm not daring !... I'm only asking....God created us in his image he's compassionate God so why will he watched us suffer in hell fire when he already knew us before we were born....Is God that weaked

Jashub:
Knowing does not mean determining. Hope you know that quite well...

The Bible did said that God knows the ways of man and even determines his (man) steps.
That pretty screams determination to me.

He has given us the solution...ko ran e nise...accept it, work on yourself, and obey.

Gben5:
when he knew us before we were even born.?...why will create us and watch us sin and died?

Gben5:
I'm not daring !... I'm only asking....God created us in his image he's compassionate God so why will he watched us suffer in hell fire when he already knew us before we were born....Is God that weaked

You dare not ask any questions. You're not to ask any questions. You're to just blindly trust and obey him, follow him.
Asking questions is devilish and satanist!

I'll pray for you, for God to deliver you from the spirit of asking questions!

Danhumprey:


The Bible did said that God knows the ways of man and even determines his (man) steps.
That pretty screams determination to me.

God knows the outcome of everything , but God cannot determine that outcomes because that would be contrary to His nature and your free will.


For example , God knows that if you sin , the consequences of your actions would be eternal damnation, so it is now left up to you to choose not to sin , so as not to be damned .


The bible tells us plainly that God wants us to choose what is right in our own interest

Jashub:
God knows the outcome of everything , but God cannot determine that outcomes because that would be contrary to His nature and your free will.


For example , God knows that if you sin , the consequences of your actions would be eternal damnation, so it is now left up to you to choose not to sin , so as not to be damned .

Looool...
What a response.
The moment you mentioned free will, you negated your whole point.
The whole concept of free will, with an omniscient, omnipotent god, is rather ridiculous. I'm not sure you realize this.

But do have a nice day.

Danhumprey:


Looool...
What a response.
The moment you mentioned free will, you negated your whole point.
The whole concept of free will, with an omniscient, omnipotent god, is rather ridiculous. I'm not sure you realize this.

But do have a nice day.

If there were no freewill we would all be mindless robots. In fact ,that would make God a dictator, but apparently, that is not the case . Enjoy your day

Jashub:
I don't understand what you mean by "knew ". Please explain

according to the Bible God knows or knew us before we were born...so why will he watch us sine and die ...burn in hell fire for life?...God is compassionate

Hell and heaven is optionals.. So, u pick d one u like

Danhumprey:


The Bible did said that God knows the ways of man and even determines his (man) steps.
That pretty screams determination to me.

so you mean he determine even our sinful ways...but is God that weaked to watch us burn in hell fire life?

Another Sunday another day devil's instruments come to turn away the hearts of men from God. You see there's really no difference between the pastors and evangelists trying to convert people to Christianity and nairaland atheists. What they both have in common is aggressive soul winning.

So which side of history do you want to be:

The part that works tirelessly to let people know that life on earth is not entirely free but that we are all accountable to our Creator?

Or

That we are on our own, and even bigger than God, or that we don't need God.

If you spend every waking day with different monikers telling people that belief in God is unreasonable, then you've already become a prophet or Pastor for the devil. Your primary assignment is to turn people away from God.

You are not concerned about your faith but intend to take others along with you. That's recruitment. So what topic will it be next week? Shalom

Danhumprey:


You dare not ask any questions. You're not to ask any questions. You're to just blindly trust and obey him, follow him.
Asking questions is devilish and satanist!

I'll pray for you, for God to deliver you from the spirit of asking questions!

is it wrong to ask questions when I don't understand?...I just want to know....and I'm not going to blindly follow obey anyhow God in the name of religion....so don't tell me to blindly trust and obey

Gben5:
so you mean he determine even our sinful ways...but is God that weaked to watch us burn in hell fire life?

Stop. Asking. Questions!

Danhumprey:


You dare not ask any questions. You're not to ask any questions. You're to just blindly trust and obey him, follow him.
Asking questions is devilish and satanist!

I'll pray for you, for God to deliver you from the spirit of asking questions!

please in the Bible it's said .... just blindly trust and obey him.... I'm only asking ooh

Danhumprey:


You dare not ask any questions. You're not to ask any questions. You're to just blindly trust and obey him, follow him.
Asking questions is devilish and satanist!

I'll pray for you, for God to deliver you from the spirit of asking questions!

please where in the Bible it's said .... just blindly trust and obey him.... I'm only asking ooh

Jashub:
If there were no freewill we would all be mindless robots. In fact ,that would make God a dictator, but apparently, that is not the case . Enjoy your day

Free Will, in the sight of a supposed omniscient, omnipresent god, is "him" basically telling you "look, I created you. And I grant you the freedom, the free will, to do as you like, do whatever you want. But that your free will is only restricted to two choices: you do what I like, even if you don't like it, if it doesn't make sense to you, but as it's what I like, you must do it. And if you do it, I'll reward you with heaven. That's choice one. Choice two, you don't do what I like, what I ask you to do, but instead do what you like and that offends me and goes contrary to what I asked you to do, I'll punish you with eternal suffering in hell fire."


Tell me again about"free will".

@Gben5

Just let it go. I remember when I had burning questions like these. Those in church will end up confusing you more and tell you to shut up and swallow their pseudo truth.

I even tried believing in the JW version of Christianity but all na wash.

There's nothing that justifies a creature sending his creatures to infinite amount of pain and suffering for what they did within a short period of their lives. Absolutely nothing.

Danhumprey:


Free Will, in the sight of a supposed omniscient, omnipresent god, is "him" basically telling you "look, I created you. And I grant you the freedom, the free will, to do as you like, do whatever you want. But that your free will is only restricted to two choices: you do what I like, even if you don't like it, if it doesn't make sense to you, but as it's what I like, you must do it. And if you do it, I'll reward you with heaven. That's choice one. Choice two, you don't do what I like, what I ask you to do, but instead do what you like and that offends me and goes contrary to what I asked you to do, I'll punish you with eternal suffering in hell fire."


Tell me again about"free will".

Your definition of freewill is not what the bible or any other religion teaches. In fact, it seems your problem happens to be a moral problem rather than philosophical problem.

But before I go into what freewill is , let us get something clear: God does not send anyone to hell or heaven, rather the choices you make will take you there . This concept can be likened to our society where offenders are punished based on decisions of cruelty, deviations and wickedness which ultimately requires some form of justice .

Now in regards to freewill, God has given all creatures that sense to choose whether or not to love Him and accept His commandments , which happens to be the foundation/ standard to what is true or just.

For the fact that God has given you freewill means that God is not a tyrant, but rather , He is someone who loves you enough not to force you obey Him which might be contrary to your will .

Karleb:
@Gben5

Just let it go. I remember when I had burning questions like these. Those in church will end up confusing you more and tell you to shut up and swallow their pseudo truth.

I even tried believing in the JW version of Christianity but all na wash.

There's nothing that justifies a creature sending his creatures to infinite amount of pain and suffering for what they did within a short period of their lives. Absolutely nothing.

o yeah bro....thank you very much no be lie u talk...none have really given me any meaningful answer except only you....the matter big I beg

Karleb:
@Gben5

Just let it go. I remember when I had burning questions like these. Those in church will end up confusing you more and tell you to shut up and swallow their pseudo truth.

I even tried believing in the JW version of Christianity but all na wash.

There's nothing that justifies a creature sending his creatures to infinite amount of pain and suffering for what they did within a short period of their lives. Absolutely nothing.

o yeah bro....thank you very much no be lie u talk...none have really given me any meaningful answer except only you....the matter big I beg

Karleb:
@Gben5
1. Just let it go. I remember when I had burning questions like these. Those in church will end up confusing you more and tell you to shut up and swallow their pseudo truth.
I even tried believing in the JW version of Christianity but all na wash.
2. There's nothing that justifies a creature sending his creatures to infinite amount of pain and suffering for what they did within a short period of their lives. Absolutely nothing.

You could have tried objectively reading scripture to find the answers for your ownself since the very same knowledge the many Churchians claim to have are written right there in that book for your to read and comprehend as you would any other communication presented you in human language.

2. God has no reason to do only that which makes sense to you, His creation, by the way. You looking to justify God's decision to create mankind is as silly as a game character or robot attempting to weigh the rationale behind His creators decision.

Jashub:
Your definition of freewill is not what the bible or any other religion teaches. In fact, it seems your problem happens to be a moral problem rather than philosophical problem.

But before I go into what freewill is , let us get something clear: God does not send anyone to hell or heaven, rather the choices you make will take you there . This concept can be likened to our society where offenders are punished based on decisions of cruelty, deviations and wickedness which untimely requires some form of justice .

Now in regards to freewill, God has given all creatures that sense to choose whether or not to love Him and accept His commandments , which happens to be the foundation/ standard to what is true or just.

For the fact that God has given you freewill means that God is not a tyrant, but rather , He is someone who loves you enough not to force you obey Him which might be contrary to your will .

Lol. It's the way you conclude my idea of "free will" to be a moral problem rather than a philosophical one. But that's by the way.
You made a rather moot point about god's commandments as being the standard and foundation of what is just or true.
I have just one question for you: how did you come to know about these commandments? Where are they written? Or god specifically told you in some trance or dreams that so and so are his "commandments" which sets the standard and foundation?

Gben5:
please where in the Bible it's said .... just blindly trust and obey him.... I'm only asking ooh

Trust and obedience in the Bible is not blindness. Instead, what God asks is that we trust Him and the agreement He makes with us- His Law. The details of the Law are as provided us by Jesus Christ with all the Terms and conditions spelt out for those who are interested.

Like any other contract or agreement one chooses to enter into, trust and obedience - to the terms and conditions of said contract - is required. Now with God, He is absolutely committed from His end to honoring His agreement - He is faithful -and He calls on men to doing the same.

Danhumprey:

Lol. It's the way you conclude my idea of "free will" to be a moral problem rather than a philosophical one. But that's by the way.
You made a rather moot point about god's commandments as being the standard and foundation of what is just or true.
I have just one question for you: how did you come to know about these commandments? Where are they written? Or god specifically told you in some trance or dreams that so and so are his "commandments" which sets the standard and foundation?

Let me ask you a similar question: why is it wrong to kill babies ? What standard do we ascribe to that tells us killing babies is wrong ?

P.S : Before answering , note that killing of babies is wrong universally irrespective of what religion or tribe you belong to .

Kobojunkie:
You could have tried objectively reading scripture to find the answers for your ownself since the very same knowledge the many Churchians claim to have are written right there in that book for your to read and comprehend as you would any other communication presented you in human language.

2. God has no reason to do only that which makes sense to you, His creation, by the way. You looking to justify God's decision to create mankind is as silly as a game character or robot attempting to weigh the rationale behind His creators decision.

Please, stop quoting me.

Danhumprey:
1
Lol. It's the way you conclude my idea of "free will" to be a moral problem rather than a philosophical one. But that's by the way.

2. You made a rather moot point about god's commandments as being the standard and foundation of what is just or true.
I have just one question for you: how did you come to know about these commandments? Where are they written? Or god specifically told you in some trance or dreams that so and so are his "commandments" which sets the standard and foundation?

1. There is nothing philosophical about "freewill" where scripture is connected. All men are born cursed from their mothers womb so what man term "freewill" is simply a choice provided them by God to choose either to reject Him or accept Him. That is all it is, and nothing more.

Those who reject Him, no matter what their mental accomplishments perish in the grave at their end. Whereas those who chose to believe God go on to compete for a chance at Heaven after their term here on earth ends.

2. God is God of Laws and these Laws He uses to define His relationship with men. The Law we were given 2000 years ago, in Jesus Christ, God's New Covenant Law and Truth for a constitution in the Kingdom of God. The Law carried with it about 100 commandments we are to obey if we are to accept God. God's Old Covenant Law of Moses which He gave to only to the children of Israel had about 613 commandments and statutes, so God's New Covenant is, compared to that, lighter and comes with an easy burden to bear - Matthew 11 vs 28 - 30

Karleb:
Please, stop quoting me.

Log off Nairaland entirely to get your wish granted.

Jashub:
Let me ask you a similar question: why is it wrong to kill babies ? What standard is do we ascribe to that tells us killing babies is wrong ?

P.S : Before answering , note that killing of babies is wrong universally irrespective of what religion or tribe you belong to .

You evaded my question, but quickly jumped to ask a moot question.

But let me humour. In your very religious book, the Bible, slavery was glorified and encouraged. Your god allowed slavery, told his "chosen" people, to take and make slaves of the heathens, the Canaanites. Even in the New testament, slavery, owning slaves, was glorified and allowed. It took years of human evolution and adaptation to finally realized and put laws in place that disallowed and outlawed slavery. Humans. Not your god. Humans.

To your question about killing babies. Pages of your Bible, are littered with commands of your god commanding his people to carryout out acts of genocides. Heck, your god carried out acts of genocides. And guess what, babies were among the victims of this genocides. So excuse me if I can't see clear to draw my idea of morality from that genocidal, plagiarized book you called the Bible.
It took human evolution to acknowledge that killing babies, heck, killing fellow humans, is wrong.
Human standard of morality is why killing babies is seen as wrong.

So what exactly was the point you were trying to pass by asking that question?