Kobojunkie:
Trust and obedience in the Bible is not blindness. Instead, what God asks is that we trust Him and the agreement He makes with us- His Law. The details of the Law are as provided us by Jesus Christ with all the Terms and conditions spelt out for those who are interested.

Like any other contract or agreement one chooses to enter into, trust and obedience - to the terms and conditions of said contract - is required. Now with God, He is absolutely committed from His end to honoring His agreement - He is faithful -and He calls on men to doing the same.

Kobojunkie:
1. There is nothing philosophical about "freewill" where scripture is connected. All men are born cursed from their mothers womb so what man term "freewill" is simply a choice provided them by God to choose either to reject Him or accept Him. That is all it is, and nothing more.

Those who reject Him, no matter what their mental accomplishments perish in the grave at their end. Whereas those who chose to believe God go on to compete for a chance at Heaven after their term here on earth ends.

2. God is God of Laws and these Laws He uses to define His relationship with men. The Law we were given 2000 years ago, in Jesus Christ, God's New Covenant Law and Truth for a constitution in the Kingdom of God. The Law carried with it about 100 commandments we are to obey if we are to accept God. God's Old Covenant Law of Moses which He gave to only to the children of Israel had about 613 commandments and statutes, so God's New Covenant is, compared to that, lighter and comes with an easy burden to bear - Matthew 11 vs 28 - 30

Danhumprey:


You evaded my question, but quickly jumped to ask a moot question.

But let me humour. In your very religious book, the Bible, slavery was glorified and encouraged. Your god allowed slavery, told his "chosen" people, to take and make slaves of the heathens, the Canaanites. Even in the New testament, slavery, owning slaves, was glorified and allowed. It took years of human evolution and adaptation to finally realized and put laws in place that disallowed and outlawed slavery. Humans. Not your god. Humans.

To your question about killing babies. Pages of your Bible, are littered with commands of your god commanding his people to carryout out acts of genocides. Heck, your god carried out acts of genocides. And guess what, babies were among the victims of this genocides. So excuse me if I can't see clear to draw my idea of morality from that genocidal, plagiarized book you called the Bible.
It took human evolution to acknowledge that killing babies, heck, killing fellow humans, is wrong.
Human standard of morality is why killing babies is seen as wrong.

So what exactly was the point you were trying to pass by asking that question?

Jashub:
You just digressed by bringing up stuff that's totally unrelated to the question I asked .

And by the way, did you read the footnote I left that said " Killing babies is universally wrong "? So why are you using one religious book as reference if we are talking about what is universally accepted in all religions and cultures in the world ?

Danhumprey:


You think they are unrelated to the question you asked?
Bold of you to be offended by that when you gleefully skipped my question and asked your moot question.

To answer your question, the killing of babies being accepted as universally wrong, is a product of years of human evolution and adaptation, trial and errors, enlightenment, to iron out various aspects of human lives that are deemed outdated and wrong.
This is not because of some supreme being commanding that or telling human beings universally that killing babies is wrong.

Danhumprey:
1. Go on to compete for a chance at heaven?
Interesting.

2. So, best bets that Hitler and such other vile and wicked people, who committed atrocities, they repented on their deathbed and accept Jesus and god, are certainly in heaven now, right?

3. Meanwhile, their victims, who could not repent "on time", are in hell, forever suffering?

Danhumprey:
Pray tell, will you, where are the "details" of this "laws" and its terms and conditions, spelt out?

Jashub:
Human evolution did not do that because human soceity greatly differs and varies in terms of religious beliefs and cultural systems . If you doubt this , look at all the world's religions and cultures and see if they intersect at all in terms of anything let alone a common belief that killing babies is wrong.

So therefore your explanation is void of any concrete logical answer.


Which bring us back to issues: what tells us that killing babies is wrong ? The answer : a higher moral standard . This is where the introduction of a God comes to play

Kobojunkie:
Trust and obedience in the Bible is not blindness. Instead, what God asks is that we trust Him and the agreement He makes with us- His Law. The details of the Law are as provided us by Jesus Christ with all the Terms and conditions spelt out for those who are interested.

Like any other contract or agreement one chooses to enter into, trust and obedience - to the terms and conditions of said contract - is required. Now with God, He is absolutely committed from His end to honoring His agreement - He is faithful -and He calls on men to doing the same.

Danhumprey:


Lol.
Your conclusion is poor and wack. But that's to be expected.
Your all too often conclusion is to want to credit such things to a higher entity, a god. The all too familiar "god of the gap". You can't help yourself. Not surprised.
Have a nice day.

Gben5:
what's you're saying is not convincing...watin concern Bible with terms and conditions

Danhumprey:


You evaded my question, but quickly jumped to ask a moot question.

But let me humour. In your very religious book, the Bible, slavery was glorified and encouraged. Your god allowed slavery, told his "chosen" people, to take and make slaves of the heathens, the Canaanites. Even in the New testament, slavery, owning slaves, was glorified and allowed. It took years of human evolution and adaptation to finally realized and put laws in place that disallowed and outlawed slavery. Humans. Not your god. Humans.

To your question about killing babies. Pages of your Bible, are littered with commands of your god commanding his people to carryout out acts of genocides. Heck, your god carried out acts of genocides. And guess what, babies were among the victims of this genocides. So excuse me if I can't see clear to draw my idea of morality from that genocidal, plagiarized book you called the Bible.
It took human evolution to acknowledge that killing babies, heck, killing fellow humans, is wrong.
Human standard of morality is why killing babies is seen as wrong.

So what exactly was the point you were trying to pass by asking that question?

Kobojunkie:
God's Law, as presented to you in even the Gospels, is a contract that defines the terms and conditions of the agreement God wants to make with you, His creation - Matthew 26 vs 28 - 30

Gben5:
I still don't understand u ok.... what's that contract defines the terms and conditions

Kobojunkie:
Do you know what I mean when I say," God's Law"?

Gben5:
please can you spelt out those laws for me... ..as in mention them for me ...I really want to learn

Gben5:
please can you spelt out those laws for me... ..as in mention them for me ...I really want to learn

Danhumprey:


The Bible did said that God knows the ways of man and even determines his (man) steps.
That pretty screams determination to me.

Kobojunkie:
Um.... you want me to list almost 100 laws here?

Hope2014:

Not only that, he also controls man to choose his path either destruction or life. Nobody becomes saved because they wanted to be saved but God saved people because he wanted them to be saved. I know someone that God told him, he created him to be destroyed, the person thought it was the voice of satan. We are generally hopeless in God's sight no wonder David said "he knows our frame that we are dust". and about watching people burn in hell, to me God is not a human being, a Spirit that has lived since infinity, has all power, wisdom, knowledge and understanding, seen everything from infinity to infinity so watching people burn in hell for their tresspasses will surely not move him. He cant be moved by people suffering, everyone has a CHOICE but Everyone answer is from God

Hope2014:

Not only that, he also controls man to choose his path either destruction or life. Nobody becomes saved because they wanted to be saved but God saved people because he wanted them to be saved. I know someone that God told him, he created him to be destroyed, the person thought it was the voice of satan. We are generally hopeless in God's sight no wonder David said "he knows our frame that we are dust". and about watching people burn in hell, to me God is not a human being, a Spirit that has lived since infinity, has all power, wisdom, knowledge and understanding, seen everything from infinity to infinity so watching people burn in hell for their tresspasses will surely not move him. He cant be moved by people suffering, everyone has a CHOICE but Everyone answer is from God

Hope2014:

Not only that, he also controls man to choose his path either destruction or life. Nobody becomes saved because they wanted to be saved but God saved people because he wanted them to be saved. I know someone that God told him, he created him to be destroyed, the person thought it was the voice of satan. We are generally hopeless in God's sight no wonder David said "he knows our frame that we are dust". and about watching people burn in hell, to me God is not a human being, a Spirit that has lived since infinity, has all power, wisdom, knowledge and understanding, seen everything from infinity to infinity so watching people burn in hell for their tresspasses will surely not move him. He cant be moved by people suffering, everyone has a CHOICE but Everyone answer is from God

Hope2014:

Not only that, he also controls man to choose his path either destruction or life. Nobody becomes saved because they wanted to be saved but God saved people because he wanted them to be saved. I know someone that God told him, he created him to be destroyed, the person thought it was the voice of satan. We are generally hopeless in God's sight no wonder David said "he knows our frame that we are dust". and about watching people burn in hell, to me God is not a human being, a Spirit that has lived since infinity, has all power, wisdom, knowledge and understanding, seen everything from infinity to infinity so watching people burn in hell for their tresspasses will surely not move him. He cant be moved by people suffering, everyone has a CHOICE but Everyone answer is from God

Gben5:
bro na lie you lie for this your comments God's ways no be way of man....watin u mean burning in will not move him... bro na lie you lie for this your comments God's ways no be way of man....watin u mean by burning in hell fire will not move him...

Danhumprey:

Lol. It's the way you conclude my idea of "free will" to be a moral problem rather than a philosophical one. But that's by the way.
You made a rather moot point about god's commandments as being the standard and foundation of what is just or true.
I have just one question for you: how did you come to know about these commandments? Where are they written? Or god specifically told you in some trance or dreams that so and so are his "commandments" which sets the standard and foundation?

Gben5:
. I know someone who God told he
created him to be destroyed, the person even saw tears fall
from the eyes of God, yet did that change God's ....and who is that person?

Gben5:
according to the Bible God knows or knew us before we were born...so why will he watch us sine and die ...burn in hell fire for life?...God is compassionate

Danhumprey:


Free Will, in the sight of a supposed omniscient, omnipresent god, is "him" basically telling you "look, I created you. And I grant you the freedom, the free will, to do as you like, do whatever you want. But that your free will is only restricted to two choices: you do what I like, even if you don't like it, if it doesn't make sense to you, but as it's what I like, you must do it. And if you do it, I'll reward you with heaven. That's choice one. Choice two, you don't do what I like, what I ask you to do, but instead do what you like and that offends me and goes contrary to what I asked you to do, I'll punish you with eternal suffering in hell fire."


Tell me again about"free will".

Gben5:
. I know someone who God told he
created him to be destroyed, the person even saw tears fall
from the eyes of God, yet did that change God's ....and who is that person?

Kobojunkie:
1. Well, technically compete... not everyone who calls Jesus Christ "Lord, Lord!" will enter into Heaven.. that's really I meant, but not trying to be literal there since as many as live their lives in continuous submission to and obedience of Jesus Christ's teachings(and commandments) will become Sons of God, and eventually make it in at the end.

2. Impossible! Jesus Christ never said the sinless will enter into Heaven. Instead Heaven is only for those who lived a righteous life while here on earth.

So, assuming Hitler was born-again, and confessed His sins before his last moments, he would still not enter into the Kingdom of God since he did not live a righteous life- Matthew 25 vs 31 - 46. The standard was set over 2000 years ago by Jesus Christ Himself.

3. Any victim of Hitler's, who was born-again and didn't live a righteous life, will end up judged the same as Hitler, I am afraid.

BSdetective:
What you're saying is actually blasphemy according to the Bible you speak of. Jeez

Kobojunkie:
Be more specific....

So, assuming Hitler was born-again, and confessed His sins before his last moments, he would still not enter into the Kingdom of God since he did not live a righteous life- Matthew 25 vs 31 - 46.