OLAADEGBU:


Clause #1 of John 1:1

First, let’s look at the first clause of the verse:

Ἐν ἀρχῇ ἦν ὁ λόγος

If we were to transliterate this Greek clause into English letters, the following would be the outcome:

En archē ēn ho logos

First, it should be noted that this clause is extremely significant and important. Before we begin our in-depth look into the whole of this clause, though, what do these words mean?

First, we will notice the words "En archē" (Ἐν ἀρχῇ). "En" is a preposition, which is translated as "in." Archē, it should be noted, turns out to be an interesting word in light of the overall context of this passage. Archē can mean "a beginning," "first place," and/or "headship."³ It would not be wrong to render this word as "chief."

To better illustrate this word, it might be good to recall the word "archbishop." We’ve often heard this word in church circles and particularly in reference to Roman Catholic and Eastern Orthodox ecclesiastical hierarchy. The word “archbishop” comes from two corresponding Greek words, namely, archē and episkopos (meaning "bishop" or “overseer”). Therefore, "archbishop" means "chief overseer" or "chief bishop."

So we can see from this example that "archē" is a word that brings the idea of "foundation" or "headship." Within the context of John 1:1, we can better see from these definitions how this might make sense. "In the beginning was the Word . . . " We see that this part of the text refers to the foundation of the universe–that is, to its origin.⁴ As we can see, the word "archē" actually gives this idea of beginnings a "thicker" meaning than what we English speakers are used to, for it speaks of the "origin" and of the "foundation" of the universe. That is why, given the context of John 1:1, Bible scholars translate "En archē" as "In the beginning."

The next part of the first clause is "ēn ho logos" (Gk: ἦν ὁ λόγος).

The word "ēn" is, no doubt, loaded with significance. It is a verb that conveys a ton of information and insight into the deity of Christ. As noted above, we have, so far, translated "En archē" as “In the beginning." So, we see that, at the start of time, something was going on; or, more specifically, Someone existed. That is where "ēn ho logos" comes in. So what was going on "In the beginning?" We find that Christ was.

But first, what does "ho logos" mean? Logos simply, but very profoundly, means "word." We also know that "the Word" is speaking about Jesus Christ. (It should be noted that all biblical scholars hold to the idea that “the Word” is Christ.)

The verb "ēn" (Gk: ἦν) is in the past tense. It is a third-person singular verb, which means "was." Without going into too much detail, it should be noted that, contrary to the English language, there are a couple of ways of rendering Greek verbs in the past tense.⁵ The first way is to render a verb in the imperfect tense, and the second way is the aorist tense. William Mounce defines the two tenses:

"The imperfect tense describes a continuous action usually occurring in the past, while the aorist . . . describes an undefined action usually occurring in the past."⁶

The word “ēn” in John 1:1, by way of Divine inspiration, happens to be in the imperfect tense. This means that “the Word” (i.e., Jesus Christ) was “continuously in existence before the beginning.”⁷ Furthermore, the imperfect tense of "was" has inherent within it the idea of eternal past existence. That is, there is no beginning to the Word, Jesus Christ.

So far, we have the first clause translated: "In the beginning was the Word . . . " We have seen that, at the beginning or creation of the universe, the Word was already in existence. He was existing at the creation of the universe and was existing continuously into eternity past. How much significance one little Greek verb makes!

Clause #2 of John 1:1

From the previous section, we have shown that Christ–the Word–always existed. In other words, there was never a time when Christ was not in existence. This section draws our attention to the second part of the verse of John 1:1.

καὶ ὁ λόγος ἦν πρὸς τὸν θεόν

Once again, if we were to transliterate this Greek clause into English letters, the following would be the outcome:

kai ho logos ēn pros ton theon

We already know how to translate a few of these words. For example, “ho logos” means “the Word.” The verb “ēn” means “was.” But what do the other words mean?

"Kai" is a conjunction that means "and." Therefore, "Kai ho logos ēn" can be translated as, "and the word was . . . "

But what about "pros ton theon?" “Pros” is another preposition that means "with." Moreover, "ton theon" means "the God." We can therefore translate this whole clause as "and the word was with God."

John MacArthur sums up this clause rather well,

" . . . John took his argument one step further. In His eternal preexistence the Word was with God. The English translation does not bring out the full richness of the Greek expression (pros ton theon). That phrase means far more than merely that the Word existed with God."⁸

What, then, does this phrase mean? One commentator has said that the preposition "pros" is hard to translate.⁹ "It is equivalent to 'was in relation with God,' 'stood over against,’ not in space or time, but eternally and constitutionally."¹⁰

To make this clearer, it would do us well to turn back to John MacArthur, who, in his own commentary, quotes W. Robert Cook as saying,

" . . . it ‘[gives] the picture of two personal beings facing one another and engaging in intelligent discourse."'11

We can see, then, that not only was Christ pre-existent but also he was in loving fellowship with the Father. "Pros ton theon" actually shows the eternal distinction between the Father and the Son. This text proves, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that the Father is not the Son nor is the Son the Father. They are, as it were, eternally distinct.

So far, then, we have translated the first two clauses of John 1:1. "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God . . . "

MaxInDHouse:


OLAADEGBU Mr Emusan and johnw47 deceiving himself!

job 15:12 Why doth thine heart carry thee away? and what do thy eyes wink at



lost false jw mad max

of course just like the devil, habitual lying is your natural way of speaking:

Joh 8:44 You are of your father the devil, and you want to do the desires of your father. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth because there is no truth in him. Whenever he speaks a lie, that is his natural way of speaking, for he is a liar and the father of lies.


fearfully paranoid and not all there, mad max:

rev 21:8 But the cowardly, unbelieving, abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone; which is the second death.

MaxInDHouse:


OLAADEGBU Mr Emusan and johnw47 deceiving himself!

Better you go and attend to the thread that says:



Each church has their own understanding of the scriptures and it's the fine WORKS Jesus said we should look out for {Matthew 7:16-18} not arguments on scriptures!

job 15:12 Why doth thine heart carry thee away? and what do thy eyes wink at


Mat 7:16  You shall know them by their fruits. They do not gather grapes from thorns, or figs from thistles, do they? 
Mat 7:17  In the same way, every good tree produces good fruit, but a corrupt tree produces evil fruit. 
Mat 7:18  A good tree cannot produce evil fruit, nor can a corrupt tree produce good fruit.

exactly lost false jw mad max

and it's your works that you are known by
verse 16 we know you by your fruits of lying and of paranoia etc.etc.
verse 17&18 we see you continually producing these evil fruits over and over again


of course you false jw cannot see it:

I Corinthians 4:4
In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

false jw's believe they are GOD's people. they certainly don't know GOD's Character

the one whose character is habitually lying that they immitate, is the devil:

Joh 8:44 You are of your father the devil, and you want to do the desires of your father. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth because there is no truth in him. Whenever he speaks a lie, that is his natural way of speaking, for he is a liar and the father of lies.

^^ see lost false jw mad max how you are exactly like him

Emusan:


Actually, since JWs have been saying Jesus is a god according to John 1:1, I'm only concern about their misinterpretation of that verse but let's grant JWs that "the word is a god"



Now, what does the term "a god" mean?

Emusan,Study Deuteronomy 10:17 (ASV), (is Jehovah the God of gods? Yes.
1 Corinthians 8:4-5, Psalms 82:1,6, (gods exist in heaven & earth?). Yes.
Is "gods" at Deuteronomy 10:17,1 Corinthians 8:4-5, Psalms 82:1,6 idols? No !!

Correct rendition of John 10:33-36 & John 1:1, Is Jesus a god? Yes.
Acts 3:13 & Deuteronomy 10:17 "Jehovah is the God of gods, His Sons are gods.
Is Jesus His Son,a god? Yes.
Emusan, further read the screenshots.
The Bible truth is bitter to Christendom sheeples.





Or Emusan embrace your delusion jejely.

Janosky:

The Bible truth is bitter to Christendom sheeples.

Or Emusan embrace your delusion jejely.

Janosky, Who is THE ALMIGHTY according to Rev. 1: 8?
Notice here, it's not an Almighty but THE Almighty.
Just a simple answer, please.

sagenaija:

Janosky, Who is THE ALMIGHTY according to Rev. 1: 8?
Notice here, it's not an Almighty but THE Almighty.
Just a simple answer, please.

Revelation 1:1,5,8 Jehovah God his Father in the spiritual realm.
Revelation 1:8 Aramaic Bible (also Exodus 6:3 & Acts 3:13).

"I am The Alap and The Tau, says THE LORD JEHOVAH God, he who is and has been and is coming, The Almighty."
Revelation 1:8 Aramaic Bible (also Exodus 6:3 & Acts 3:13, when these 3 verses where given was Jesus on Earth then ? No !).

What of Matthew 10:32? Jesus on Earth.
Revelation 3:5, Jesus in heaven.

Janosky:


Emusan,Study Deuteronomy 10:17 (ASV), (is Jehovah the God of gods? Yes.
1 Corinthians 8:4-5, Psalms 82:1,6, (gods exist in heaven & earth?). Yes.
Is "gods" at Deuteronomy 10:17,1 Corinthians 8:4-5, Psalms 82:1,6 idols? No !!

Correct rendition of John 10:33-36 & John 1:1, Is Jesus a god? Yes.
Acts 3:13 & Deuteronomy 10:17 "Jehovah is the God of gods, His Sons are gods.
Is Jesus His Son,a god? Yes.
Emusan, further read the screenshots.
The Bible truth is bitter to Christendom sheeples.





Or Emusan embrace your delusion jejely.

I asked just simple question, you couldn't address it yet you can't see through that your delusion

Anyway, here is my simple question again!

what does the term "a god" mean?

sagenaija:

Janosky, Who is THE ALMIGHTY according to Rev. 1: 8?
Notice here, it's not an Almighty but THE Almighty.
Just a simple answer, please.

Who was Jesus crying to when begging on his knees? {Mark 14:36} note that he clearly said both the father and him has different wills but he (the son) is ready to submit to his father's will!
Apostle Paul declared that Jesus begged the one who can SAVE him! Hebrews 5:7
So the Almighty is the SAVIOUR who saved Jesus!

Janosky:

Revelation 1:1,5,8 Jehovah God his Father in the spiritual realm.
Revelation 1:8 Aramaic Bible (also Exodus 6:3 & Acts 3:13).

"I am The Alap and The Tau, says THE LORD JEHOVAH God, he who is and has been and is coming, The Almighty."
Revelation 1:8 Aramaic Bible (also Exodus 6:3 & Acts 3:13, when these 3 verses where given was Jesus on Earth then ? No !).

What of Matthew 10:32? Jesus on Earth.
Revelation 3:5, Jesus in heaven.

Who is the Alpha and the Omega in Revelation 22:13-16?

MaxInDHouse:


Who was Jesus crying to when begging on his knees? {Mark 14:36} note that he clearly said both the father and him has different wills but he (the son) is ready to submit to his father's will!
Apostle Paul declared that Jesus begged the one who can SAVE him! Hebrews 5:7
So the Almighty is the SAVIOUR who saved Jesus!

Using your doctrinal position, if Archangel Michael were to cry to Jehovah would that mean he was no longer a god?

sagenaija:
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Using your doctrinal position, if Archangel Michael were to cry to Jehovah would that mean he was no longer a god?

1 Corinthians 8:4-5 & Psalms 82:1,6, Angel Michael (Jesus) is a god.
Jesus is a son of God,All sons of God are gods.
Deuteronomy 10:17, Jehovah their Father is the God of gods,His sons (in heaven & earth).

Shalom.

sagenaija:
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Who is the Alpha and the Omega in Revelation 22:13-16?

Does Revelation 22:13 prove that Jesus is “the Alpha and the Omega”?
No.
The speaker at Revelation 22:13 is not specifically identified, and there are various speakers in Revelation chapter 22:1-12.

Thus, “the Alpha and the Omega” at Revelation 22:13 can be identified as the same Person given this title elsewhere in Revelation 1:8—Jehovah God Almighty.

Jehovah is NOT morning Star in verses 13-16.

Shalom.

*

Emusan:


I asked just simple question, you couldn't address it yet you can't see through that your delusion

Anyway, here is my simple question again!

what does the term "a god" mean?

I have answered your question on 9th July,2022 @ 10:47.
But for emphasis, a god means "like godlike, resembling God,of God, divine"

Deuteronomy 10:17 & John 20:17, Jehovah is the Father/God of gods His sons.

Janosky:

I have answered your question on 9th July,2022 @ 10:47.
But for emphasis, a god means "like godlike, resembling God,of God, divine"

Deuteronomy 10:17 & John 20:17, Jehovah is the Father/God of gods His sons.

That's nice!

But Jehovah Is also A GOD?



Jesus is The Lord of Lords
King of Kings
God of gods

Janosky:

1 Corinthians 8:4-5 & Psalms 82:1,6, Angel Michael (Jesus) is a god.
Jesus is a son of God,All sons of God are gods.
Deuteronomy 10:17, Jehovah their Father is the God of gods,His sons (in heaven & earth).

Shalom.

If you honestly think this is the answer to the question I asked then you really need help.

Janosky:


Does Revelation 22:13 prove that Jesus is “the Alpha and the Omega”?
No.
The speaker at Revelation 22:13 is not specifically identified, and there are various speakers in Revelation chapter 22:1-12.

Thus, “the Alpha and the Omega” at Revelation 22:13 can be identified as the same Person given this title elsewhere in Revelation 1:8—Jehovah God Almighty.

Jehovah is NOT morning Star in verses 13-16.

Shalom.

When you run from answering questions directly it should occur to you somewhere in your head that you are being cunning.

When it is clear from that portion that the speaker identified himself you had to run to "elsewhere" in the book of Revelation to explain it because you want to impose your dogma on the portion of Scripture.

You run to concordance, etc to try and convince others yet basic means of scriptural interpretation has escaped you here.

Why are you guys so deliberately evasive and disingenuous? Vincit omnia veritas.

Janosky:


Does Revelation 22:13 prove that Jesus is “the Alpha and the Omega”?
No.
The speaker at Revelation 22:13 is not specifically identified, and there are various speakers in Revelation chapter 22:1-12.

Thus, “the Alpha and the Omega” at Revelation 22:13 can be identified as the same Person given this title elsewhere in Revelation 1:8—Jehovah God Almighty.

Jehovah is NOT morning Star in verses 13-16.

Shalom.

So Jesus is not The Alpha and the Omega

Nothing wey this followers of the lying 8 old men in Warwick won't say just because the seed of their father the Devil is in them.

Emusan:


So Jesus is not The Alpha and the Omega

Nothing wey this followers of the lying 8 old men in Warwick won't say just because the seed of their father the Devil is in them.

Did you see Jesus speaking at Revelation 22:13-15?
Abeg, carry your delusion go offline.
Nonsense !

sagenaija:
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When you run from answering questions directly it should occur to you somewhere in your head that you are being cunning.

When it is clear from that portion that the speaker identified himself you had to run to "elsewhere" in the book of Revelation to explain it because you want to impose your dogma on the portion of Scripture.

You run to concordance, etc to try and convince others yet basic means of scriptural interpretation has escaped you here.

Why are you guys so deliberately evasive and disingenuous? Vincit omnia veritas.

Oga, I challenge you to provide the proof Jesus Christ spoke at Revelation 22:13-15.

Period !

Must you always embrace your delusion & throw tantrums on this thread?

Haba !!!!

sagenaija:
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If you honestly think this is the answer to the question I asked then you really need help.

Oga, you are entitled to your opinion.
In your Bible, Deuteronomy 10:17, is Jehovah the God of gods?


1 Corinthians 8:4-5,in your Bible do gods exist in heaven?

Psalms 82:1,6, are angels gods?

Oga, you don't want to hear that in Psalm 82:1,6 angels are gods. Angel is a god.
Is archangel Michael dwelling in your apartment?

Oga, remove Deuteronomy 10:17 & Psalm 82:1,6 from your Bible & have peace.

Emusan:


That's nice!

But Jehovah Is also A GOD?

Does Deuteronomy 10:17 mean anything to you?

Emusan:

Jesus is The Lord of Lords
King of Kings.

Yes, it's in the holy Bible.

Emusan:

Jesus is God of gods

Please provide the verse and chapter from your Bible.
I want to see am & believe.

Janosky:


Does Revelation 22:13 prove that Jesus is “the Alpha and the Omega”?
No.
The speaker at Revelation 22:13 is not specifically identified, and there are various speakers in Revelation chapter 22:1-12.

Thus, “the Alpha and the Omega” at Revelation 22:13 can be identified as the same Person given this title elsewhere in Revelation 1:8—Jehovah God Almighty.

Jehovah is NOT morning Star in verses 13-16.

Shalom.

lost fraud jw janosky

you false jw's never stop lying and denying the Lord Jesus Christ
Jesus is clearly "Alpha and Omega"

john heard a voice behind him say:
I am Alpha and Omega
then john turned to see who spoke, and he saw
one like "the Son of Man"

Rev 1:10  I was in the Spirit on the Lord's day, and heard behind me a great voice, as of a trumpet, 
Rev 1:11  Saying, I am Alpha and Omega, .... 
Rev 1:12  And I turned to see the voice that spake with me. And being turned, I saw seven golden candlesticks; 
Rev 1:13  And in the midst of the seven candlesticks one like unto the Son of man

the "Alpha and Omega" goes on to say:

Rev 1:18  I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death. 


1Jn 2:23 Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father

Joh 8:44 You are of your father the devil, and you want to do the desires of your father. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth because there is no truth in him. Whenever he speaks a lie, that is his natural way of speaking, for he is a liar and the father of lies.

johnw47:



lost fraud jw janosky

you false jw's never stop lying and denying the Lord Jesus Christ
Jesus is clearly "Alpha and Omega"

john heard a voice behind him say:
I am Alpha and Omega
then john turned to see who spoke, and he saw
one like "the Son of Man"

Rev 1:10  I was in the Spirit on the Lord's day, and heard behind me a great voice, as of a trumpet, 
Rev 1:11  Saying, I am Alpha and Omega, .... 
Rev 1:12  And I turned to see the voice that spake with me. And being turned, I saw seven golden candlesticks; 
Rev 1:13  And in the midst of the seven candlesticks one like unto the Son of man

the "Alpha and Omega" goes on to say:

Rev 1:18  I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death. 


1Jn 2:23 Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father

Joh 8:44 You are of your father the devil, and you want to do the desires of your father. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth because there is no truth in him. Whenever he speaks a lie, that is his natural way of speaking, for he is a liar and the father of lies.

Dubious Trinitarians con artists

"Alpha and Omega" is NOT in any Greek manuscript of Revelation 1:11.

Your mentors ADDED and padded that expression into the KJV to deceive you.

Please carry your delusion out of this thread.

Next.......

Janosky:

Dubious Trinitarians con artists

"Alpha and Omega" is NOT in any Greek manuscript of Revelation 1:11.

Your mentors ADDED and padded that expression into the KJV to deceive you.

Please carry your delusion out of this thread.

Next.......

Ecclesiastes 7:6
For as the crackling of thorns under a pot, so is the laughter of the fool


lost fraud jw janosky

if it's been added like fraud jw org. do to their book, then that's bad

however "Alpha and omega" is clearly Jesus
lets go to verse 8

john said He who was pierced comes with clouds
now Father doesn't jump in here and say "I am Alpha and Omega"
it's Jesus who say's "I am Alpha and Omega"

Rev 1:7  Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen. 
Rev 1:8  I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty. 


verse 7 john say's it's the One pierced who is coming
verse 8 john say's it's the "Alpha and Omega" who is coming

john also calls Him the Almighty, and i agree with Him
the Father's Word is Almighty

you of course would deny it:

1Jn 2:23 Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father

sagenaija:
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Using your doctrinal position, if Archangel Michael were to cry to Jehovah would that mean he was no longer a god?

The problem with you people is TRINITY!
We are not relating with an angel but the Christ, what we discovered is that the one and only person who has been with God Almighty from the beginning is the angel called Michael and that is because he is the Archangel which means the one and only angel directly created by God.
So if this angel now gets promoted to a lofty position due to a successful earthly mission it doesn't make him the one who should be worshiped worship belongs to only one person and that's the Almighty God!
There are many angelic sons of God who are demanding worship due to their rebellious act but the one sent by God never did, that's why God ordered all those who want to prove their obedience to follow Christ as in learn obedience through him.
That supposed to be called OBEISANCE and not WORSHIP as some translators erroneous interpreted it.

MaxInDHouse:


The problem with you people is TRINITY!
We are not relating with an angel but the Christ, what we discovered is that the one and only person who has been with God Almighty from the beginning is the angel called Michael and that is because he is the Archangel which means the one and only angel directly created by God.
So if this angel now gets promoted to a lofty position due to a successful earthly mission it doesn't make him the one who should be worshiped worship belongs to only one person and that's the Almighty God!
There are many angelic sons of God who are demanding worship due to their rebellious act but the one sent by God never did, that's why God ordered all those who want to prove their obedience to follow Christ as in learn obedience through him.
That supposed to be called OBEISANCE and not WORSHIP as some translators erroneous interpreted it.

The question was simple. Your answer displays your deceptive tactics.

Janosky:

Oga, I challenge you to provide the proof Jesus Christ spoke at Revelation 22:13-15.

Period !

Must you always embrace your delusion & throw tantrums on this thread?

Haba !!!!

Why did you ignore verse 16? Do you see why I say that you guys are being disingenuous?
What is in verse 16?
How did the book of Revelation start in chapter 1?
Who is coming according to Revelation 1:7?
Who is Revelation 22: 12 saying is coming? Another person than Revelation 1:7?
Who is the First and the Last in Revelation 1: 17?
Is he not the same one who said in the very next verse: ”I was dead, and now look, I am alive for ever and ever!"?

Open your eyes!
We can see who is deluded now.

sagenaija:
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The question was simple. Your answer displays your deceptive tactics.

Your quest is ambiguous nah, so you can't dictate both side. You asked your question in the public and respond must also come with the public in mind!

Janosky:

Does Deuteronomy 10:17 mean anything to you?

Did Jehovah claim to be A GOD?

ole...

Yes, it's in the holy Bible.

That's nice!

So the Father isn't Lord of Lords and King of Kings

Please provide the verse and chapter from your Bible.
I want to see am & believe.

Jesus the First and the last, the beginning and the ending John 1:1, Rev 1:17-18, Rev 22:13

You need more!

Janosky:

Did you see Jesus speaking at Revelation 22:13-15?
Abeg, carry your delusion go offline.
Nonsense !

If not because you're delusional the name "Jesus" appeared more than two times in Rev 22 yet you claimed it's not Jesus talking.

Besides, the person speaking in Revelation 22:13 says He is "The First and The Last"

Didn't Jesus called Himself the first and the Last in the same Revelation 1:17:18?

JaNosenses the lying liar JWs like his father the Devil

I know it's a great pain to you and your father the Devil that Jesus called Himself The First and the last, the beginning and the ending