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Does Anyone Know What Righteousness By Faith Means? by elated177: 2:05pm On Jul 02, 2022
El Elohe Yahshrael!

The righteous will live by their faithfulness. What does it mean?

El Elohe Yahshrael! Hallelu YAH!
Re: Does Anyone Know What Righteousness By Faith Means? by MaxInDHouse(m): 3:16pm On Jul 02, 2022
Romans 1:17; Galatians 3:11; Hebrews 10:38

Before Jesus Christ of Nazareth all faithful servants of God were looking forward to seeing the Messiah (Christ) in action! Luke 2:25-38

But by the time Jesus grew up and got baptized God fulfilled His word by announcing Jesus as the Messiah (Christ) so right from that moment any servant of God no matter how precious such a person is before God must live his life in harmony with the teachings of Jesus Christ because according to God's word no human can redeem another {Psalms 49:7-9} so whoever failed to live by the teachings of the Christ with faith that God will grant such a person everlasting life for believe in the Christ all his former righteous deeds will be cancelled for failure to exercise FAITH in God's only begotten Son {John 3:18} hence God declared saying:

“But my righteous one will live by reason of faith,” and “if he shrinks back, I have no pleasure in him" Hebrews 10:38

So he shouldn't be PROUD of his works according to the laws {Habakkuk 2:4} all his works according to the law will be cancelled if he fails to live by FAITH in Christ Jesus! Luke 18:18-23


May you have PEACE! smiley
Re: Does Anyone Know What Righteousness By Faith Means? by elated177: 4:19pm On Jul 02, 2022
MaxInDHouse:
Romans 1:17; Galatians 3:11; Hebrews 10:38

Before Jesus Christ of Nazareth all faithful servants of God were looking forward to seeing the Messiah (Christ) in action! Luke 2:25-38

But by the time Jesus grew up and got baptized God fulfilled His word by announcing Jesus as the Messiah (Christ) so right from that moment any servant of God no matter how precious such a person is before God must live his life in harmony with the teachings of Jesus Christ because according to God's word no human can redeem another {Psalms 49:7-9} so whoever failed to live by the teachings of the Christ with faith that God will grant such a person everlasting life for believe in the Christ all his former righteous deeds will be cancelled for failure to exercise FAITH in God's only begotten Son {John 3:18} hence God declared saying:

“But my righteous one will live by reason of faith,” and “if he shrinks back, I have no pleasure in him" Hebrews 10:38

So he shouldn't be PROUD of his works according to the laws {Habakkuk 2:4} all his works according to the law will be cancelled if he fails to live by FAITH in Christ Jesus! Luke 18:18-23


May you have PEACE! smiley


I have a feeling that you have more to say. Do you?
Re: Does Anyone Know What Righteousness By Faith Means? by MaxInDHouse(m): 4:34pm On Jul 02, 2022
elated177:

I have a feeling that you have more to say. Do you?

For the Wise that should be enough! smiley

1 Like

Re: Does Anyone Know What Righteousness By Faith Means? by elated177: 4:42pm On Jul 02, 2022
MaxInDHouse:


For the Wise that should be enough! smiley

So, anyone who does not accept everything that you have said above is not wise, huh?
Re: Does Anyone Know What Righteousness By Faith Means? by Dtruthspeaker: 5:07pm On Jul 02, 2022
elated177:
El Elohe Yahshrael!

The righteous will live by their faithfulness. What does it mean?

El Elohe Yahshrael! Hallelu YAH!

It means the righteous will live, by continuing in righteousness unwaveringly.

I thought you knew this! I thought you have a thread which says something to this effect or maybe it is openeyes who has a thread!
Re: Does Anyone Know What Righteousness By Faith Means? by MaxInDHouse(m): 5:31pm On Jul 02, 2022
elated177:

So, anyone who does not accept everything that you have said above is not wise, huh?

Haba! Why are you trying to force your words on me? undecided

Well the wise will only read, meditate and choose wisely what to do!

1 Like

Re: Does Anyone Know What Righteousness By Faith Means? by paxonel(m): 6:31pm On Jul 02, 2022
it means righteousness by your religion.
Your faith is your religion
Re: Does Anyone Know What Righteousness By Faith Means? by elated177: 7:32pm On Jul 02, 2022
Dtruthspeaker:


It means the righteous will live, by continuing in righteousness unwaveringly.

I thought you knew this! I thought you have a thread which says something to this effect or maybe it is openeyes who has a thread!

Just getting people's views.
Re: Does Anyone Know What Righteousness By Faith Means? by elated177: 7:33pm On Jul 02, 2022
paxonel:
it means righteousness by your religion.
Your faith is your religion


Huh?
Re: Does Anyone Know What Righteousness By Faith Means? by elated177: 7:36pm On Jul 02, 2022
MaxInDHouse:


Haba! Why are you trying to force your words on me? undecided

Well the wise will only read, meditate and choose wisely what to do!

I didn't force anything on you, maxindhouse. I responded to what you said.

Read, meditate and choose what wisely, exactly?
Re: Does Anyone Know What Righteousness By Faith Means? by MaxInDHouse(m): 8:37pm On Jul 02, 2022
elated177:

I didn't force anything on you, maxindhouse. I responded to what you said.
Read, meditate and choose what wisely, exactly?

It's either you put faith in the Mosaic laws {Luke 18:18-21} or put faith in Jesus whose laws differs from what's in the Mosaic laws! Luke 18:22-23 smiley
Re: Does Anyone Know What Righteousness By Faith Means? by TenQ: 8:44pm On Jul 02, 2022
Rom 1:17:
"For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith."

Gal 3:11:
"But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith."

Heb 10:38:
"Now the just shall live by faith: but if any man draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him."


elated177:
El Elohe Yahshrael!

The righteous will live by their faithfulness. What does it mean?

El Elohe Yahshrael! Hallelu YAH!
Faith means Trust in the integrity of God to perform His words.

The righteous thus will live their lives by Trust in God's promises to
1. Save those who Trust in Him for their Salvation
2. Be the Righteousness of those who depend on Him since our righteousness is insufficient to get us into heaven.

1 Like

Re: Does Anyone Know What Righteousness By Faith Means? by Kobojunkie: 8:54pm On Jul 02, 2022
elated177:
El Elohe Yahshrael!

The righteous will live by their faithfulness. What does it mean?

El Elohe Yahshrael! Hallelu YAH!
Faith refers to living life in continuous submission to and obedience of God's teachings(and commandments), God's Law and the standard by which one is eventually deemed righteous by God. undecided

Note that not all those who have faith are righteous. since Righteousness is according to God's judgement. So the righteous live their existence by faith in God means they are not ruled by their will but by the Will of God aka God's Law. undecided
Re: Does Anyone Know What Righteousness By Faith Means? by Dtruthspeaker: 10:14pm On Jul 02, 2022
elated177:


Just getting people's views.

Ok
Re: Does Anyone Know What Righteousness By Faith Means? by Ken4Christ: 10:35pm On Jul 02, 2022
elated177:
El Elohe Yahshrael!

The righteous will live by their faithfulness. What does it mean?

El Elohe Yahshrael! Hallelu YAH!

Righteousness by faith simply means the righteousness that is obtained just by believing in the finished work of Christ on Calvary. It is the righteousness that is given to us as a gift. You don't work for it. Just believe in Jesus and you will be declared righteous.

This is how Abraham also was declared righteous in his days;

Genesis 15:6 And HE BELIEVED in the LORD; and he COUNTED IT TO HIM FOR RIGHTEOUSNESS.

Apostle Paul wrote;

Romans 10:10 For with the heart man BELIEVETH UNTO RIGHTEOUSNESS; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

Righteousness obtained by faith is a gift;

Romans 5:17 For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the GIFT OF RIGHTEOUSNESS shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.

And you receive this gift of righteousness the very moment you accept Jesus as your Lord and Saviour. Your sins are washed away and you become a brand new man. You are no longer seen as a sinner. You are now the righteousness of God in Christ.
Re: Does Anyone Know What Righteousness By Faith Means? by paxonel(m): 2:06am On Jul 03, 2022
elated177:



Huh?
yes!

a lot of Christians are yet to see it that way.
seeing it that way is the only way they can be truly free. And you shall know the truth and the truth will make you free.

They were just righteous by being who they are but they didn't know
Re: Does Anyone Know What Righteousness By Faith Means? by elated177: 11:29am On Jul 04, 2022
Ken4Christ:


Righteousness by faith simply means the righteousness that is obtained just by believing in the finished work of Christ on Calvary. It is the righteousness that is given to us as a gift. You don't work for it. Just believe in Jesus and you will be declared righteous.

This is how Abraham also was declared righteous in his days;

Genesis 15:6 And HE BELIEVED in the LORD; and he COUNTED IT TO HIM FOR RIGHTEOUSNESS.

Apostle Paul wrote;

Romans 10:10 For with the heart man BELIEVETH UNTO RIGHTEOUSNESS; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

Righteousness obtained by faith is a gift;

Romans 5:17 For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the GIFT OF RIGHTEOUSNESS shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.

And you receive this gift of righteousness the very moment you accept Jesus as your Lord and Saviour. Your sins are washed away and you become a brand new man. You are no longer seen as a sinner. You are now the righteousness of God in Christ.


Is there any need engaging you on this issue?
Re: Does Anyone Know What Righteousness By Faith Means? by elated177: 11:31am On Jul 04, 2022
Kobojunkie:
Faith refers to living life in continuous submission to and obedience of God's teachings(and commandments), God's Law and the standard by which one is eventually deemed righteous by God. undecided

Note that not all those who have faith are righteous. since Righteousness is according to God's judgement. So the righteous live their existence by faith in God means they are not ruled by their will but by the Will of God aka God's Law. undecided

Good. You are learning. You are beginning to understand.
Re: Does Anyone Know What Righteousness By Faith Means? by elated177: 11:40am On Jul 04, 2022
TenQ:


Rom 1:17:
"For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith."

Gal 3:11:
"But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith."

Heb 10:38:
"Now the just shall live by faith: but if any man draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him."

Who is deemed "just" in the Scriptures? What certifies a person as "just"?

Live by faith in what?

TenQ:


Faith means Trust in the integrity of God to perform His words.

The righteous thus will live their lives by Trust in God's promises to
1. Save those who Trust in Him for their Salvation.


What has the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob promised that he is expected to perform?

TenQ:

2. Be the Righteousness of those who depend on Him since our righteousness is insufficient to get us into heaven.

What is this "our righteousness"? Give examples.
Re: Does Anyone Know What Righteousness By Faith Means? by elated177: 11:54am On Jul 04, 2022
MaxInDHouse:


It's either you put faith in the Mosaic laws {Luke 18:18-21} or put faith in Jesus whose laws differs from what's in the Mosaic laws! Luke 18:22-23 smiley


Deut 15: 7 If anyone is poor among your fellow Israelites in any of the towns of the land YHVH your God is giving you, do not be hardhearted or tightfisted toward them. 8 Rather, be openhanded and freely lend them whatever they need. 9 Be careful not to harbor this wicked thought: “The seventh year, the year for canceling debts, is near,” so that you do not show ill will toward the needy among your fellow Israelites and give them nothing. They may then appeal to YHVH against you, and you will be found guilty of sin. 10 Give generously to them and do so without a grudging heart; then because of this YHVH your God will bless you in all your work and in everything you put your hand to. 11 There will always be poor people in the land. Therefore I command you to be openhanded toward your fellow Israelites who are poor and needy in your land.

What were you saying again, maxindhouse?
Re: Does Anyone Know What Righteousness By Faith Means? by elated177: 11:59am On Jul 04, 2022
paxonel:
yes!

a lot of Christians are yet to see it that way.
seeing it that way is the only way they can be truly free. And you shall know the truth and the truth will make you free.

They were just righteous by being who they are but they didn't know

Of course, your faith can't be separated from your religion.

1 Like

Re: Does Anyone Know What Righteousness By Faith Means? by TenQ: 5:39pm On Jul 04, 2022
elated177:


Who is deemed "just" in the Scriptures? What certifies a person as "just"?

Live by faith in what?

A just person is one who is deemed by God to be living his life in order to please God (in spite of the fact that our righteousness is not anything before God).
Acts 10:1-2:
"There was a certain man in Caesarea called Cornelius, a centurion of the band called the Italian band, A devout man, and one that feared God with all his house, which gave much alms to the people, and prayed to God always."

Yet he was directed to how he could be saved.

elated177:

What has the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob promised that he is expected to perform?
Abraham was not thinking of salvation in his walk with God. He only TRUSTED God that He would perform His promises over his life to become prosperous and a great nation.

elated177:

What is this "our righteousness"? Give examples.

Righteousness is ANYTHING that we do that shows our love both to God and Man.

Examples:[b][/b]
- Helping others at our expenses
- Building the lives of others at our own expense
- Living Right by obedience to God's laws
- Devotion to God through Devotion
Re: Does Anyone Know What Righteousness By Faith Means? by elated177: 6:57pm On Jul 04, 2022
TenQ:


A just person is one who is deemed by God to be living his life in order to please God (in spite of the fact that our righteousness is not anything before God).

Is it possible for anyone to please YHVH Almighty without obeying his commands? Do you agree with me that those who obey the Commandments of YHVH Almighty are certified righteous by him?

Consider the following:

Acts 10: 4 Cornelius stared at him in fear. “What is it, Lord?” he asked. The angel answered, “Your prayers and gifts to the poor have come up as a memorial offering before God.
31 and said, ‘Cornelius, God has heard your prayer and remembered your gifts to the poor


TenQ:

Acts 10:1-2:
"There was a certain man in Caesarea called Cornelius, a centurion of the band called the Italian band, A devout man, and one that feared God with all his house, which gave much alms to the people, and prayed to God always."

Yet he was directed to how he could be saved.

I want you to consider the following deeply.

Acts 10: 43 All the prophets testify about him that everyone who believes in him receives forgiveness of sins through his name.”

Hebrews 9: 22 In fact, the law requires that nearly everything be cleansed with blood, and without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness.

TenQ:

Abraham was not thinking of salvation in his walk with God. He only TRUSTED God that He would perform His promises over his life to become prosperous and a great nation.
[/b]

Was it because of his "trust" in his God that made him obey his instructions?

[quote author=TenQ post=114419717]
Righteousness is ANYTHING that we do that shows our love both to God and Man.

Examples:[b][/b]
- Helping others at our expenses
- Building the lives of others at our own expense
- Living Right by obedience to God's laws
- Devotion to God through Devotion

Is living in obedience to the Commandments of YHVH Almighty, our Father in heaven, considered righteousness by him?
Re: Does Anyone Know What Righteousness By Faith Means? by MaxInDHouse(m): 8:52pm On Jul 04, 2022
elated177:

Deut 15: 7 If anyone is poor among your fellow Israelites in any of the towns of the land YHVH your God is giving you, do not be hardhearted or tightfisted toward them. 8 Rather, be openhanded and freely lend them whatever they need. 9 Be careful not to harbor this wicked thought: “The seventh year, the year for canceling debts, is near,” so that you do not show ill will toward the needy among your fellow Israelites and give them nothing. They may then appeal to YHVH against you, and you will be found guilty of sin. 10 Give generously to them and do so without a grudging heart; then because of this YHVH your God will bless you in all your work and in everything you put your hand to. 11 There will always be poor people in the land. Therefore I command you to be openhanded toward your fellow Israelites who are poor and needy in your land.
What were you saying again, maxindhouse?

God established a nation and gave them laws that will guide them until the Christ comes {Deuteronomy 18:18-19} so whatever you read in the Bible before Jesus' time only applies to the nation God established but after the Christ nobody should return to those laws because our salvation is here: Christ Jesus!

All we need is to continue looking intently at him making his thoughts, words and actions our law! Romans 10:4 smiley

1 Like

Re: Does Anyone Know What Righteousness By Faith Means? by TenQ: 11:40pm On Jul 04, 2022
elated177:


Is it possible for anyone to please YHVH Almighty without obeying his commands? Do you agree with me that those who obey the Commandments of YHVH Almighty are certified righteous by him?

Consider the following:

Acts 10: 44 Cornelius stared at him in fear. “What is it, Lord?” he asked.31 and said, The angel answered, “Your prayers and gifts to the poor have come up as a memorial offering before God.
31 and said, ‘Cornelius, God has heard your prayer and remembered your gifts to the poor




I want you to consider the following deeply.

Acts 10: 43 All the prophets testify about him that everyone who believes in him receives forgiveness of sins through his name.”

Hebrews 9: 22 In fact, the law requires that nearly everything be cleansed with blood, and without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness.


Isa 64:6:
"But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away."

Mat 19:16,18-22:
"And, behold, one came and said to him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life? … He said to him, Which? Jesus said, You shall do no murder, You shall not commit adultery, You shall not steal, You shall not bear false witness, Honor your father and your mother: and, You shall love your neighbor as yourself. The young man said to him, All these things have I kept from my youth up: what lack I yet? Jesus said to him, If you will be perfect, go and sell that you have, and give to the poor, and you shall have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me. But when the young man heard that saying, he went away sorrowful: for he had great possessions."
Re: Does Anyone Know What Righteousness By Faith Means? by elated177: 12:08am On Jul 05, 2022
TenQ:


Isa 64:6:
"But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away."

Check out the thread below.


https://www.nairaland.com/7199380/self-righteousness-it-scriptural#114204377


TenQ:

Mat 19:16,18-22:
"And, behold, one came and said to him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life? … He said to him, Which? Jesus said, You shall do no murder, You shall not commit adultery, You shall not steal, You shall not bear false witness, Honor your father and your mother: and, You shall love your neighbor as yourself. The young man said to him, All these things have I kept from my youth up: what lack I yet? Jesus said to him, If you will be perfect, go and sell that you have, and give to the poor, and you shall have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me. But when the young man heard that saying, he went away sorrowful: for he had great possessions."

Compare verse 21 of the portion of the Scriptures you quoted above to your assertion below.

TenQ:

Acts 10:1-2:
"There was a certain man in Caesarea called Cornelius, a centurion of the band called the Italian band, A devout man, and one that feared God with all his house, which gave much alms to the people, and prayed to God always."
Re: Does Anyone Know What Righteousness By Faith Means? by elated177: 12:18am On Jul 05, 2022
MaxInDHouse:


God established a nation and gave them laws that will guide them until the Christ comes {Deuteronomy 18:18-19} so whatever you read in the Bible before Jesus' time only applies to the nation God established but after the Christ nobody should return to those laws because our salvation is here: Christ Jesus!

All we need is to continue looking intently at him making his thoughts, words and actions our law! Romans 10:4 smiley


Just for the purpose of what you have introduced. Who is Yahushua the Messiah? What does it mean to look intently at him? How does one do so?
Re: Does Anyone Know What Righteousness By Faith Means? by MaxInDHouse(m): 4:54am On Jul 05, 2022
elated177:

Just for the purpose of what you have introduced. Who is Yahushua the Messiah? What does it mean to look intently at him? How does one do so?

MaxInDHouse:

All we need is to continue looking intently at him making his thoughts, words and actions our law! Romans 10:4 smiley

This is what God meant when He promised to establish a new COVENANT and write His laws in the hearts of obedient mankind! Jeremiah 31:31-34

Instead of studying laws and reading it with your neighbours you must recall the life and ministry of Jesus Christ then meditate on his thoughts, words and actions. So if the Christ use to kill his enemies then you're justified before God to do the same, if the Christ use to curse his enemies then you can do likewise, if the Christ approves having multiple partners in marriage then you too can do so.
That's how the LAWS are WRITTEN in people's hearts not when you start traveling back to the COVENANT God made between Himself and the ancient nation of Israel! smiley

1 Like

Re: Does Anyone Know What Righteousness By Faith Means? by TenQ: 6:04am On Jul 05, 2022
elated177:


Check out the thread below.


https://www.nairaland.com/7199380/self-righteousness-it-scriptural#114204377




Compare verse 21 of the portion of the Scriptures you quoted above to your assertion below.

No sane Christian goes against the LAW of God even though we know that no one is saved by just the observance of the Law.

The Laws in the OT is not limited to the 10 commandments. It also includes the ceremonial and levitical Laws. The 10 Commandments are like the summary or coincise statement of the law.

Rom 3:25-30:
"Whom God has set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God; To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believes in Jesus. Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? No: but by the law of faith. Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law. Is he the God of the Jews only? is he not also of the Gentiles? Yes, of the Gentiles also: Seeing it is one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith."
Re: Does Anyone Know What Righteousness By Faith Means? by elated177: 8:49pm On Jul 05, 2022
MaxInDHouse:




This is what God meant when He promised to establish a new COVENANT and write His laws in the hearts of obedient mankind! Jeremiah 31:31-34

Instead of studying laws and reading it with your neighbours you must recall the life and ministry of Jesus Christ then meditate on his thoughts, words and actions. So if the Christ use to kill his enemies then you're justified before God to do the same, if the Christ use to curse his enemies then you can do likewise, if the Christ approves having multiple partners in marriage then you too can do so.
That's how the LAWS are WRITTEN in people's hearts not when you start traveling back to the COVENANT God made between Himself and the ancient nation of Israel! smiley

I am glad you mentioned Jeremiah 31:31-34. Nowhere in that portion of the Scriptures did my Father in heaven, YHVH Almighty, say that he was going to or would abolish his Ten Commandments. Nope! He said he would write them on the hearts of those who accept his Salvation. Reading and meditating on them are very crucial. Don't you agree? Reading, studying and meditating on the Ten Commandments with family and friends are very important.

Anyone who claims to be a saint, servant or messenger of YHVH Almighty who does not teach his children the Ten Commandments with the utmost serious is only deluding himself or herself and does not belong to him. In fact, this is the premise of the thread mentioned below.

https://www.nairaland.com/7210577/ancestors-never-accepted-whitemans-religion

Are the Ten Commandments sufficient for any follower of Yahushua the Messiah?
Re: Does Anyone Know What Righteousness By Faith Means? by elated177: 9:10pm On Jul 05, 2022
TenQ:

No sane Christian goes against the LAW of God even though we know that no one is saved by just the observance of the Law.

The Laws in the OT is not limited to the 10 commandments. It also includes the ceremonial and levitical Laws. The 10 Commandments are like the summary or coincise statement of the law.

Rom 3:25-30:
"Whom God has set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God; To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believes in Jesus. Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? No: but by the law of faith. Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law. Is he the God of the Jews only? is he not also of the Gentiles? Yes, of the Gentiles also: Seeing it is one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith."


The fact that the Ten Commandments of YHVH Almighty were written by him on two stone tablets should give any genuine seeker an idea of how seriously he takes them. There are other laws, decrees, statutes and commands in the Torah, of course, but the Ten Commandments are separate.

The two stone tablets upon which the Ten Commandments were written were carefully placed in the Ark of the Covenant. The other two items were the golden jar of manna and budded staff of Aaron.

You see, when the Father in heaven, YHVH Almighty, said he would write his Laws on our hearts and put them in our minds, he was, by that very fact, saying he would make us his temples and our hearts and minds a kind of ark.

John 14:23 Yahushua replied, “Anyone who loves me will obey my teaching. My Father will love them, and we will come to them and make our home with them.

I think this should form a a new thread entirely.

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