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My Historical Perspective On Eze Chima And Western Igbos - Culture - Nairaland

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Umumba, Umuahia Passes Vote Of No-confidence On Eze Godwin Okechukwu Ogbonna / Eze Chima Migrated From Benin To Onitsha / Ooni Of Ife Confirms Eze Chima Obatala Migrated From Ife To Benin To Igbo Land (2) (3) (4)

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My Historical Perspective On Eze Chima And Western Igbos by odigbosky(m): 5:32pm On Oct 02, 2022
Firstly I would like to say this work does not in any way claim to be the true and exact nature of all historical activities of the past and parties in it. It is merely a work of one who loves history and wants to learn more. Most of writings are based on the works I have read on the internet and different books both online and offline.

So I was watching a video about some communities in Delta North and how they share similar language with the Igbos over the Niger. While there are few persons who would love to claim that majority of the people in Delta North came from Benin, I being Edo myself strongly disagree with this.
I frequently transverse the Benin-Asaba route and I am always fascinated by the communities along these routes. I have visited some of these communities like Agbor, Issele Uku, Onicha Ugbo, Onitsha Olona, Ezi, Idumuje Ugboko, Isele Azagba, Ogwashi uku and few others. I have seen the strong language affinity with these people and their kins across the Niger.
So there have always been this argument that if majority of these people came from Benin, how did they loose their language, well I will share my thought and opinion on this.
Firstly as I pointed out before I don’t believe that most of these communities even have any Benin link especially when it comes to their formation except very very few of them.
Aside the proto yoruboid group of the Olukumis, I believe if there are any valid places with Benin roots then I will pick Agbor and Issele Uku. I will use this two in explaining how they link to Eze Chima.
The Benins, have a claim that the founder of Agbor and Issele Uku were both of Edo origin as both towns are some of the oldest also. Ekhaguosa Aisien in one of his Books pointed out that Prince Ogun who later became Oba Ewuare 1, sought refuge in Issele Uku when he was fighting for the throne which his brother Oba Uwiafokun had usurped . So according to that book, Issele Uku was the extreme end of whatever was Benin or Edo. It was like the outskirt of few edo hamlet. This was over 500 years back.
The first question that came to my mind was, well why did Oba Ewuare not settle or hide in Agbor. Well I could assume that as at that time, if he stayed in Agbor due to it’s proximity to Benin, he could easily be caught and executed by his brother the King. The book goes on to explain how Prince Ogun stayed in Issele Uku and after a while went back to reclaim the throne in Benin. Well the book doesn’t say much about how the conquest took place, but instead it just says Oba Ewuare defeated his brother. Now this is where I feel, the Eze Chima story actually starts from and not during the reign of Oba Esigie who was the grandson of Oba Ewuare.
Looking eastward across the Niger, using historical writings, the oldest kingdom in that region was the Nri Kingdom. It was not a political kingdom rather it was a priestly kingdom. I think it is on this position the saying that Igbos don’t have kings came from maybe because they didn’t see the Eze Nri as a political king rather they saw him as modern catholics would see the pope. So Nri or the east would have been peaceful, little conflict and hence development and a surge in population. Now I cannot say why people migrated from the hinterland igbo Nri kingdom, it could be for economical purposes or maybe it was this point that Nri was declining. Whatever the case maybe the progenitors of the igbos on the west of the Niger came from the east.

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Re: My Historical Perspective On Eze Chima And Western Igbos by odigbosky(m): 5:34pm On Oct 02, 2022
It would be wrong for me to say this was the exact period that the migration started as people are bound to move anyways as people have always been moving. I believe that Oba Ewuare during his time in Iselle Uku must have met some of the earlier Igbos who had crossed the Niger and moved westward as far as into Isele uku. I believe that it was the wave of immigrants from across the Niger that Prince Ogun gathered and organized into a fighting force along with the Benin natives there, to reclaim the throne in Benin.
One question would then be, why there is little or no trace of this invading force in Benin. This questions was raised in the book Oba Ewuare by Ekhaguosa Aisien. What quarters can they be traced to in Benin or settlements. If you look at the towns of Agbor and Isele uku, they have quarters bearing Edo names and also Igbo names. I will give my own view on that later on. So I believe that Oba Ewuare having reclaimed his throne in Benin might have encouraged his new set of friends to settle in Agbor and not Benin. Now there is this hatred and rivalry between Agbor and Benin. Agbor in my own view was like a town looked down on by the elites in Benin. Their earliest inhabitants were of the same stock, but they were like two brothers. Benin being the elder one and most probably a bully.
So I feel Oba Ewuare having secured the throne would not want to offend the city’s elite by settling the people with which he had secured victory in Benin itself. So the earliest movement of the igbo stocks that crossed the Niger would have returned back to Agbor to settle down. Agbor itself had a king but I believe the town was still growing then. Most African communities are usually very hospitable to strangers so I believe the new arrivals in Agbor would have been welcomed and given a quarter for themselves. So I believe these Igbo people in Agbor then being secluded by having their own quarter were able to still retain and hold their language. Oba Ewuare who is the first warrior king and Expansionist, would have made made efforts to make peace with his kin in Agbor and also strengthen the relationship between himself and Isele Uku because of the role she played in his ascension.
So Oba Ewuare having no enemies to the east of Benin might have turned his expansionist agenda elsewhere. I strongly believe that even though the bulk of igbos who he had used alongside Edo natives of Isele uku in getting the throne must have remained in Agbor or even Isele uku since they couldn’t settle in Benin then, some who had performed exceptionally well might have gone with him to serve as advisers in Benin.
I strongly believe that Eze Chima was a descendant of one of these very few people. I believe that his mother might be of Benin descent and maybe a princess or not. Now back to the east, rumors might have gone across that their igbo kins have being settled in a new town. News might have gotten across the Niger about the fame of Benin because Ewuare was building Benin then and it is said that it was during his reign Benin was first called a city. So I believe the hunger to migrate or do business or settle in this emerging city across the Niger must have caused another surge of migration. People are always attracted to societies where there are maybe better economical structures. Benin was expanding at this time and also booming in trade. Some who might have gone in search of this city might have gotten to Agbor only to be told by the first igbo group there that the Benin’s are not actually going to warmly embrace them. So some of these people might have chosen to settle in Agbor, or go back to Isele Uku where they are also given separate quarters or they formed settlement along between Agbor and Isele uku route. I can deduce from this that the migration being steady and unchecked was slowly changing the demographics in the east of Benin. Another point I might raise is that Oba Ewuare would likely draw most of his Edo fighting men from Isele Uku and the Agbor regions in his expansionist drive his he was familiar with them. This system was practiced among Benins as each community was required to send it’s fighting men to join in imperial quest. Now the new Igbo population not required to do this or contribute to the fighting, and still in harmony with those inhabitants of the two settlements of Agbor and Isele uku would grow and prosper. I believe this practice might have continued for a while till the reign of Oba Esigie.

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Re: My Historical Perspective On Eze Chima And Western Igbos by odigbosky(m): 5:36pm On Oct 02, 2022
Now in most document, this is the Oba associated with Eze Chima. According to most sources of eastern narratives, they say Eze Chima had a quarrel with the mother of the Oba and that led to his exodus from Benin. Now I believe Chima might have been very influential in the Benin court and close to the Oba Esigie. He might be as Joseph was to Pharaoh in Egypt. But from Benin’s history, Queed Idia who was Esigie’s mother is the most powerful Iyoba to have existed. So I believe she was the one who must have made her son send away the very few aristocratic igbo element in Benin then. I would also like to mention that it might be the ealier generation of Igbos who had come to be with Oba Ewuare that the Benins adopted the four market day system which is very predominant in the east.
So I believe when Chima left Benin with his few aristocratic fellows who might be young as himself also, they wanted to go in the direction from where their fathers came. Agbor was the closest settlement then in that direction from Benin. I saw a historical piece written by an Agbor person who said Eze Chima was driven out of Agbor because he contested for the Kingship in Agbor and he lost.
I am of the opinion that, it might not be the case but something close to it. I believe when Chima and his group got to Agbor, they might have been welcomed by the King in Agbor. It’s just like Russia granting citizenship now to Edward Snowden. Agbor would later come to play this role in receiving many Benin fugitive warlords who were running from Benin. Back to the Chima, I believe he might have settled amongst the quarters where his kin might be in the Agbor area or he might be with the King in Agbor because he saw himself as some sort of royalty. I believe the igbo stocks in the Agbor area must have heard of one of their kins who recently came from Benin and must have been amazed at how he carried himself. Chima might have been very flamboyant and charismatic at the same time. I believe at this point that the igbos there might liken Chima to a King and attached the title Eze to his name. I searched for the title of the King of Nri and found out that his title was Eze Nri. Eze being the word carrying the attributes of a King in the lexicon of these Igbo migrants into the west of the Niger and they might also have looked on Chima as the nearest thing to the Eze Nri which most of the present generation of igbos in the Agbor region might not have really known except the stories they were told by their fathers. I assume that the time span from Oba Ewuare in which the first wave might have settled in Agbor to the time Chima left Benin should be 70-100 years.
Back to Chima in Agbor, I believe him being called Eze by his igbo kins in Agbor must have irked the Original Edo inhabitants or the King of Agbor who would then see a threat of Chima’s presence in his settlement. Chima might in his own right angered his host by maybe settling disputes among his people in Agbor or playing the role of Moses to the Isrealites. This would have made the King of Agbor to tell him to leave. Chima being young and charismatic would have thought to himself that he might never be welcomed in this land west of the Niger. This must have made him have the quest to return to his true place across the Niger according to his belief.
I am not sure Chima ever in his life time returned to the true settlement of his father or grandfather who had come from the east of the Niger. He might have learned about the particular place but not know it’s exact location.
So having being told to leave Agbor, he must have convinced some few followers of the Old igbo stock who were already thriving in peace in Agbor to follow him with the promise of leading them back to their original land. Some might have heeded to his call, others must have felt no need since they were already doing well here in their new home. I believe those that remained in the Agbor area can be said to be those who transformed into what we call the Ika stock of Igbo. I believe this stock continued to increase in size as more igbos crossed the Niger moving westward probably still wanting to get to Benin.
So Chima and his group went back to Isele Uku. Well this is because, this was probably the entrance of his ancestors into the Edo sphere of influence west of the Niger. I believe when he got to Isele UKu, he is treated warmly and received. He stays there for a long time and mixes with other igbo stock who have made that settlement their home already. But because he feels he might receive the same treatment he received in Agbor someday, he chooses to continue his sojourn eastward. I don’t know how many kids he had, but most accounts have it that he had kids and these kids founded many communities in the Aniocha zone. I believe it is for this reason that Isele Uku sees herself as the head of the Eze Chima clan.
Now Chima passes the Benin system of Monarchy and court practices which he had been exposed to his descendants and followers. So those who couldn’t continue with him to the other side of the Niger stayed back and formed different settlements which would later grow for form different communities and in future towns and villages and kingdoms.
It was this group of Chima descendants that is said to have established the kingship in Onitsha after crossing the Niger. Well by this time Eze Chima had died and I believe the new generation just felt well, since we are across the Niger already, let’s stay here. We really don’t know the road home, but our parents said we came from across the Niger. Since we are across the Niger already, we are home. That’s why Onitsha is the last Eze Chima settlement.
I still believe that even while the new Eze chima group was trying to settle in Onitsha, there were pocket of migration still from the east westward. So, when would have Benin conquest moved towards the axis of the Niger.
Re: My Historical Perspective On Eze Chima And Western Igbos by odigbosky(m): 5:37pm On Oct 02, 2022
Well I believe it was after the time of the Warrior Kings in Benin. Words might have come to Benin that her nearest neighbor might have built a great army and was now a threat in the region. The long years of peace in that region would have allowed for growth and development in these regions.
Maybe Benin had gone to Agbor to collect tributes or something, and the war broke out. I believe the the Agbor Kings would have over the years of peace being building a formidable army. An Army of Ika-igbo stock. The Benins while focusing on other areas never knew Agbor was cooking in her backyard.
So when the first war between Benin and Agbor must have broken out, it would have taken the Benins a while to subdue their neighbors. Having noticed that there have been a major change in demographic and seen how impactful these igbo stock had been in Agbor, the Benins would make it an annual ritual to carry out raids towards the Niger, to capture slaves, depopulate the fighting age of these settlements that were springing everywhere near them.
What the Benins where doing is what every powerful nation would do then and still do now. They perceived these newly emerging settlements as threats and felt that if they don’t check it, these people might be a headache in the future.
So the raids and clashes became institutionalized in the Benin military system. I believe in all this conflicts, these igbos further from Agbor who were suffering from these harassment would have seen that going to Agbor was telling the Benins that we are ready to fight, but going to Isele Uku was raising the Olive branch. They might have noticed that if other settlements where being harassed, Isele Uku was not. So I believe that it was through Isele Uku that most of these other newly established settlements especially in the Aniocha region came under the influence of Benin.
Isele Uku must have told the leaders of these new Eze Chima communities and others in the area that going to Benin to make peace was the best way of saving their communities. So when the kings of these communities might have gone to Benin for peace during important festivities just like the case of the Obi of Ubulu UKu which later caused the Adesuwa war. They would stay in Benin for a while, get taught Benin Monarchy system and maybe given few chiefs to return home with or even get the daughters of Benin Chiefs or even princesses as brides. The Benins did this to solidify their grip on the people through their leaders. When they got home to their people, they came with the promise that the incessant raids would stop. This bolsters their image in the eyes of their people and with Benin backing crush any republican spirit that maybe rising in the minds of the average igbo person who like their kins across the Niger are republicans. The Benins on the other hand cared less about the igbos in these regions. All they cared about was having these kings remain as puppets so that the future threat of being attacked by these people could be checked and tributes can always come to Benin. Benin was playing international politics.
I believe this was the case when Olaudah Equiano wrote that his village was under the protection of the Oba of Benin. So I believe then that, any igbo community which failed to submit or acknowledge the Benin Lordship over the area would be raided and it’s people sold into slavery. Those whose Kings had gone to Benin, were seen as allies. Well I believe then, many newly emerging igbo community leaders in this region would go to Benin and do this and go back home to enjoy their reign.
On the other hand, the Kings of Agbor felt that they had equal rights with the King in Benin because they came from the same stock. They too would go on in later years trying to exert authority over other ika-igbo settlements that sprang up around them.
This would cause wars between her and Benin. The more generals from Benin and other people who didn’t find favor in any new Oba ran from Benin, they found refuge in Agbor. This made Agbor stronger and stubborn if I may say. This hatred was very rife between the Benins and the King in Agbor that it almost led another war before the British invasion of Benin put an end to the conflict.

So this is my take on Benin and her relation with the Igbos on the west of the Niger. These people in Delta North, are mainly of Igbo stock, with few Benin ancestry. Most of the town today were formed and founded by Igbo people and only very few were original settlements of Benin speaking people. This is just my own perspective about how I view this region and having read so many materials both here on Nairaland and elsewhere, I came up with my own perspective. I believe we all are learning and history is a beautiful thing. I am putting this here to share my thoughts, I would love to hear what you think. I would love to learn more. God bless everyone.

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Re: My Historical Perspective On Eze Chima And Western Igbos by klonboi: 6:36pm On Oct 02, 2022
It is Only in Nigeria and Africa in general that you will see were humans are dumped in a certain area and tagged a name out of their will or without plebiscite.

@Op this is the origin of your confusion.

If proper referendum were conducted and individual's in communities decides where they want to belong to all this problem wouldn't have come up
Re: My Historical Perspective On Eze Chima And Western Igbos by odigbosky(m): 6:39pm On Oct 02, 2022
klonboi:
It is Only in Nigeria and Africa in general that you will see were humans are dumped in a certain area and tagged a name out of their will or without plebiscite.

@Op this is the origin of your confusion.

If proper referendum were conducted an individual's in communities decides where they want to belong to all this problem wouldn't have come up

okay. Thanks for your contribution
Re: My Historical Perspective On Eze Chima And Western Igbos by klonboi: 6:44pm On Oct 02, 2022
What is called tribes in Nigeria today is what is known as Nations in Europe.

Some countries in Europe are even less than 500k in population.

In addition, all the problems we have today regarding the origin of religion, missing chapters in the bible, the lost tribes, Jesus and his origin, early civilizations and what not wouldn't have come up if those thugs from Europe didn't invade Africa

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Re: My Historical Perspective On Eze Chima And Western Igbos by RedboneSmith(m): 11:36pm On Oct 02, 2022
OP, you said some things on this thread that I'll like to respond to, but let me finish reading first.
Re: My Historical Perspective On Eze Chima And Western Igbos by RedboneSmith(m): 11:55pm On Oct 02, 2022
I guess the first thing I should say here is to respond to the question: why didn't Ewuare seek refuge in Agbor?

As a matter of fact, according to Agbor oral traditions, Ewuare actually did seek refuge at Agbor and not at Issele-Uku. I don't know how Aisen came to the conclusion that Ewuare fled to Issele-Uku; I'll very much like to read his book and his sources. Issele-Uku doesn't have traditions of Ewuare coming to their town, but Agbor does. Read the history of Agbor compiled by Iduuwe. Agbor tradition goes as far as to say that Ewuare's mother came from Agbor and that Ewuare merely took refuge at his mother's village.

Issele-Uku's dynastic connection with Benin came in the 18th century, during the time of Akenzua. Nowadays, Issele-Uku tries to pretend their Benin connection is much older by claiming it goes as far back as Oba Ewedo. If you look at a list of Issele-Uku kings, there was no Benin name until the 8th king called Odia. This indicates the point at which the kingdom began to forge/cement dynastic links with Benin, probably under Akenzua.

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Re: My Historical Perspective On Eze Chima And Western Igbos by samuk: 8:30pm On Oct 03, 2022
odigbosky:


It's almost impossible for you to use your present day observations to explain events of 300 years ago let alone 500 years ago. The world was a complete different place then. Your writeup is ridden with you think, you think....you will probably also think that the present king of England is of English ancestry because he speaks English and he is the king of England. The world doesn't or didn't work like that.

You need to read more and do more research if you really want to learn instead of formulating your own theories using limited knowledge from your today's observations.

In 1875 for example, Samuel Ajayi Crowder visited Asaba and documented that there were large Igbo migrating to Asaba and the indigene were fast loosing their Edo language, although few Edo words were still being used. This is 1875 and you are trying to think and formulate theories about what happened during the reign of Oba Ewuare more than 500 years ago. During the reign of Oba Ewuare, that entire area and beyond were mostly populated by Edo people before they were overwhelmed by other migrants.

The above reference is a eye witness historical account of someone that was on ground in Asaba in 1875 and wrote what he saw, not what he thought. Although you will read Igbo writers that wrote in the 1900s claiming Asaba as original Igbo town.

There are people that still claim Benin ancestry all over the South South to the middle belt, in comparison, Delta North was just another Benin empire towns and villages. The king we now know as Obi of Obolukwu was known in Benin as Ogie Oboro, if the title Obi existed then, Benin would have known and call him Obi Oboro. Perhaps you should ask yourself why the current king of Agbor changed his title from Obi of Agbor to Dein of Agbor and what was the title during Oba Ewuare, 500 years ago.

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Re: My Historical Perspective On Eze Chima And Western Igbos by RedboneSmith(m): 9:22am On Oct 04, 2022
samuk:


The king we now know as Obi of Obolukwu was known in Benin as Ogie Oboro, if the title Obi existed then, Benin would have known and call him Obi Oboro.

Here we go again. The king now known as Oba of Benin was known among many Igbo-speakers as Eze Obodo Idu, so this means the Oba of Benin was formerly called Eze before he now started using Oba, abi?

It is cultural arrogance on your part to think that what you call a foreign king was his original title and not the one he actually uses for himself. The Yoruba called the Etsu of Nupe 'Elempe'. I don't see anyone arguing that Elempe was the Etsu's original title. Ogie is king in Edo, so you simply called him the word for king in your language, just like an Igbo man would call King Charles III Eze ndi England, not because the British royal family uses 'Eze'. Logic 101.

And you have already been told several times that the Obi of Ubulu-Ukwu is not one of the Obis of Anioma that claims Benin origin. The founder of the Ubulu ruling line was called Ezemu (note the Eze in his name) and he came from Afor.

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Re: My Historical Perspective On Eze Chima And Western Igbos by bigfrancis21: 12:36pm On Oct 05, 2022
samuk:


It's almost impossible for you to use your present day observations to explain events of 300 years ago let alone 500 years ago. The world was a complete different place then. Your writeup is ridden with you think, you think....you will probably also think that the present king of England is of English ancestry because he speaks English and he is the king of England. The world doesn't or didn't work like that.

You need to read more and do more research if you really want to learn instead of formulating your own theories using limited knowledge from your today's observations.

In 1875 for example, Samuel Ajayi Crowder visited Asaba and documented that there were large Igbo migrating to Asaba and the indigene were fast loosing their Edo language, although few Edo words were still being used. This is 1875 and you are trying to think and formulate theories about what happened during the reign of Oba Ewuare more than 500 years ago. During the reign of Oba Ewuare, that entire area and beyond were mostly populated by Edo people before they were overwhelmed by other migrants.

The above reference is a eye witness historical account of someone that was on ground in Asaba in 1875 and wrote what he saw, not what he thought. Although you will read Igbo writers that wrote in the 1900s claiming Asaba as original Igbo town.

There are people that still claim Benin ancestry all over the South South to the middle belt, in comparison, Delta North was just another Benin empire towns and villages. The king we now know as Obi of Obolukwu was known in Benin as Ogie Oboro, if the title Obi existed then, Benin would have known and call him Obi Oboro. Perhaps you should ask yourself why the current king of Agbor changed his title from Obi of Agbor to Dein of Agbor and what was the title during Oba Ewuare, 500 years ago.

Interesting. Can you share the link to the book or article about Ajayi’s visit to Asaba in 1875 and his comment on their Edo history?

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Re: My Historical Perspective On Eze Chima And Western Igbos by odigbosky(m): 3:14pm On Oct 05, 2022
samuk:


It's almost impossible for you to use your present day observations to explain events of 300 years ago let alone 500 years ago. The world was a complete different place then. Your writeup is ridden with you think, you think....you will probably also think that the present king of England is of English ancestry because he speaks English and he is the king of England. The world doesn't or didn't work like that.

You need to read more and do more research if you really want to learn instead of formulating your own theories using limited knowledge from your today's observations.

In 1875 for example, Samuel Ajayi Crowder visited Asaba and documented that there were large Igbo migrating to Asaba and the indigene were fast loosing their Edo language, although few Edo words were still being used. This is 1875 and you are trying to think and formulate theories about what happened during the reign of Oba Ewuare more than 500 years ago. During the reign of Oba Ewuare, that entire area and beyond were mostly populated by Edo people before they were overwhelmed by other migrants.

The above reference is a eye witness historical account of someone that was on ground in Asaba in 1875 and wrote what he saw, not what he thought. Although you will read Igbo writers that wrote in the 1900s claiming Asaba as original Igbo town.

There are people that still claim Benin ancestry all over the South South to the middle belt, in comparison, Delta North was just another Benin empire towns and villages. The king we now know as Obi of Obolukwu was known in Benin as Ogie Oboro, if the title Obi existed then, Benin would have known and call him Obi Oboro. Perhaps you should ask yourself why the current king of Agbor changed his title from Obi of Agbor to Dein of Agbor and what was the title during Oba Ewuare, 500 years ago.


You have a point. It is very valid but i still believe Edo was not a major language in places like Asaba. There are other writings that classified these people as igboid.
Re: My Historical Perspective On Eze Chima And Western Igbos by samuk: 6:28pm On Oct 05, 2022
odigbosky:



You have a point. It is very valid but i still believe Edo was not a major language in places like Asaba. There are other writings that classified these people as igboid.

I can assure you that you cannot find any book written before 1875 to support what you believe, besides it's not about what you believe, but what can be proven, we all are at liberty to believe whatever we choose to believe, the problem is the ability to support our believes with prove.

The point is, there may be books written after 1875 by Igbo that claim Asaba as Igboid but this was not the case during Oba Ewuare. The Asabans claimed in 1875 that they migrated from Benin.

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Re: My Historical Perspective On Eze Chima And Western Igbos by samuk: 6:58pm On Oct 05, 2022
bigfrancis21:


Interesting. Can you share the link to the book or article about Ajayi’s visit to Asaba in 1875 and his comment on their Edo history?

Bishop Crowder on the Niger mission, 1875, page 538.

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Re: My Historical Perspective On Eze Chima And Western Igbos by samuk: 7:00pm On Oct 05, 2022
bigfrancis21:


Interesting. Can you share the link to the book or article about Ajayi’s visit to Asaba in 1875 and his comment on their Edo history?

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Re: My Historical Perspective On Eze Chima And Western Igbos by samuk: 7:00pm On Oct 05, 2022
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Re: My Historical Perspective On Eze Chima And Western Igbos by AreaFada2: 3:31pm On Oct 06, 2022
samuk:
...

Samuk, the way history has been rewritten by those tribes that the British favoured after 1897 and benefitted initially from 1914 amalgamation and post-independence, is beginning to miseducate some Edo people. Say around 1986, if I greeted elderly people "Lamogun or La'Umogun", they will recite the "oriki", uwaenmwen or praise of Umogun descendants. I would have to politely wait for them to finish before proceeding on my merry way. My experience as a young chap. Edohen, Ero, Elawure, Ezomo and other descendants also have their oriki. A chap who greets Lamogun today might even get a reply in Pidgin English from the elder. grin cheesy

Kids today may not even know that there is something like oriki.
Edo people brought up in Lagos are helping to spread the myth that Edo people come from Yoruba. That is how their "accommodating" hosts educated them.

For anyone to use languages or dialects spoken today in various districts of former Benin Empire to decide or conjure up what the origins or demographics of those areas were around 1440-1473 when Oba Ewuare I reigned, is an abysmal disservice to scholarship and common sense.

But at least the guy has enough fantasy and attempted to think, albeit being misguided.

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Re: My Historical Perspective On Eze Chima And Western Igbos by samuk: 4:37pm On Oct 06, 2022
AreaFada2:


Samuk, the way history has been rewritten by those tribes that the British favoured after 1897 and benefitted initially from 1914 amalgamation and post-independence, is beginning to miseducate some Edo people. Say around 1986, if I greeted elderly people "Lamogun or La'Umogun", they will recite the "oriki", uwaenmwen or praise of Umogun descendants. I would have to politely wait for them to finish before proceeding on my merry way. My experience as a young chap. Edohen, Ero, Elawure, Ezomo and other descendants also have their oriki. A chap who greets Lamogun today might even get a reply in Pidgin English from the elder. grin cheesy

Kids today may not even know that there is something like oriki.
Edo people brought up in Lagos are helping to spread the myth that Edo people come from Yoruba. That is how their "accommodating" hosts educated them.

For anyone to use languages or dialects spoken today in various districts of former Benin Empire to decide or conjure up what the origins or demographics of those areas were around 1440-1473 when Oba Ewuare I reigned, is an abysmal disservice to scholarship and common sense.

But at least the guy has enough fantasy and attempted to think, albeit being misguided.

This is why sometimes I reply these guys to set the record straight. Education in Nigeria is currently nothing to write home about. We Edo people are also not doing enough, what stop each family from writing their own family history for a start, a project which I am already helping to finance within my own family. Our ancestors who came into contact with the Europeans as early as the 1400s didn't see the need to learn the art of writing, we are just lucky that early foreigners wrote aspects of our history, we can already see how those whose ancestors learn how to read and write starting from late 1800s are rewriting our history and mis-educating our people about our history. The Op even claim to be Edo.

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Re: My Historical Perspective On Eze Chima And Western Igbos by AreaFada2: 5:39pm On Oct 06, 2022
samuk:


This is why sometimes I reply these guys to set the record straight. Education in Nigeria is currently nothing to write home about. We Edo people are also not doing enough, what stop each family from writing their own family history for a start, a project which I am already helping to finance within my own family. Our ancestors who came into contact with the Europeans as early as the 1400s didn't see the need to learn the art of writing, we are just lucky that early foreigners wrote aspects of our history, we can already see how those whose ancestors learn how to read and write starting from late 1800s are rewriting our history and mis-educating our people about our history. The Op even claim to be Edo.

Let me tell you the truth about the bolded. I began such an effort 6 years ago. It didn't go anywhere. Please let me not talk about how much I wasted on it. I gave it up. Look, most people are interested only in money to share. One big mistake is to try to involve too many people. Of course the idea is to get as much input as possible. Which in normal countries, would be the right thing. But some generations of 9ja people have got too used to embezzling and sharing money. Only few know the value of history. When you bring that idea, their impression is that you have too much money.

If they can't get their hands on they money, some will just constitute an obstacle for no reason. Elderly well educated people I am talking about.

The best way is to get young intellectuals with a passion for history. They see things with keen, innovative, digital eyes, not corrupt analogue eyes. I had to find an alternative. Not writing anymore, as side-lining them and going ahead would have caused offence to many.

The only people I see showing genuine great passion for Edo history on social media are young people, such as GBD. That tells you that only the youth can rescue the situation.
Re: My Historical Perspective On Eze Chima And Western Igbos by samuk: 6:09pm On Oct 06, 2022
AreaFada2:


Let me tell you the truth about the bolded. I began such an effort 6 years ago. It didn't go anywhere. Please let me not talk about how much I wasted on it. I gave it up. Look, most people are interested in money share. One big mistake is to try to involve too many people. Of course the idea is to get as much input as possible. Which in normal countries, would be the right thing. But some generations of 9ja people have got too used to embezzling and sharing money. Only few know the value of history. When you bring that idea, their impression is that you have too much money.

If they can't get get their hands on they money, some will just constitute an obstacle for no reason. Elderly well educated people I am talking about.

The best way is to get young intellectuals with a passion for history. They see things with keen, innovative digital eyes, not corrupt analogue eyes. I had to find an alternative. Not writing anymore, as side-lining them going ahead would have caused offence to many.

The only people I see showing genuine great passion for Edo history on social media are young people. Such as GBD. That tells you that only the youth can rescue the situation.

You are right, GBD is doing great, I do give their leader encouragement whenever I can.

1 Like

Re: My Historical Perspective On Eze Chima And Western Igbos by bigfrancis21: 11:17pm On Oct 06, 2022
samuk:


Bishop Crowder on the Niger mission, 1875, page 538.

Thanks for sharing the article. I wanted to see the original article to understand your original statement about: ‘Asaba fast loosing their edo language’. Your earlier statement does not appear induced nor insinuated in Ajayi’s writing that you referenced. Understood, a few words and cultural practices may have been borrowed from the Edo, plus maybe some later Edo migrants may have settled in Asaba, however it remains unlikely that the entire Asaba people originated from Edo.

2 Likes

Re: My Historical Perspective On Eze Chima And Western Igbos by samuk: 11:51pm On Oct 06, 2022
bigfrancis21:


Thanks for sharing the article. I wanted to see the original article to understand your original statement about: ‘Asaba fast loosing their edo language’. Your earlier statement does not appear induced nor insinuated in Ajayi’s writing that you referenced. Understood, a few words and cultural practices may have been borrowed from the Edo, plus maybe some later Edo migrants may have settled in Asaba, however it remains unlikely that the entire Asaba people originated from Edo.

The article is there for all to see, there is no maybe, it stated that Asaba tradition says that they migrated under the sovereign of the oba of Benin generations ago through the causes of war, meaning, there were several wars in Benin and Asabans migrated to Asaba. It further stated that Asabans were different from Ibo people which they became amalgamated. In 1875 Ajayi stated that Asabans who migrated under the sovereign of Oba of Benin were different people in habits from Ibo people which they were sharing the same space with. Did you not read this in the page? In 1875 the people Ajayi Crowder called Asaba people were not Ibo, the original Asabans had different habits from the Ibos, a clear distinction was made between Asaba people and Ibo people in 1875, go back and read the paragraph again.

Similarly it could be said that Benin people who are different in habits to Igbo people inhabit Benin City. Ibadan people who have different habits from Igbo people inhabit Ibadan, Hausa people who are different in habits to Igbo people share Enugu with Igbo people, etc. In all the examples the Benin people remain the original owner/inhabitants of Benin City, same as Ibadan people owning Ibadan, same as Igbo being the original owners of Enugu, same as Asabans being the original owners of Asaba which they shared with Ibo in 1875 according to Ajayi Crowder.

In 1875, two set of different people lived in Asaba, the Asaba people who their tradition says they migrated from under the sovereign of the Oba of Benin and another group of people call Ibo people.

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Re: My Historical Perspective On Eze Chima And Western Igbos by gregyboy(m): 12:54pm On Oct 08, 2022
samuk:




Nice one I learnt something its been a while i read something like this pertaining to edo history

1 Like

Re: My Historical Perspective On Eze Chima And Western Igbos by RedboneSmith(m): 7:27pm On Oct 08, 2022
bigfrancis21:


Thanks for sharing the article. I wanted to see the original article to understand your original statement about: ‘Asaba fast loosing their edo language’. Your earlier statement does not appear induced nor insinuated in Ajayi’s writing that you referenced. Understood, a few words and cultural practices may have been borrowed from the Edo, plus maybe some later Edo migrants may have settled in Asaba, however it remains unlikely that the entire Asaba people originated from Edo.

His conclusions from Crowther's writings are over-reaching. Crowther writes about a migration from areas under Benin's sovereignty. There's nothing there about the ethnicity or linguistic pedigree of these migrants. Not every area under Benin's political sphere of influence was Edo, as every scholar of Benin history already knows.

Asaba traditions actually speak of one of the pre-Nnebisi ancestors as Eze Anyanwu, who was connected to the royal line of Eze Chima. This 'Eze Anyanwu' is doubtless the embodiment of this migration from 'under Benin sovereignty' mentioned in Crowther's writings.

It remains to be proven that this Eze Anyanwu, just like Ezechima, was ethnically Edo. The names would suggest not. And like Ezechima, it is much more likely that the migration was from more westerly parts of the Igboid-speaking Anioma area.

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Re: My Historical Perspective On Eze Chima And Western Igbos by samuk: 7:46pm On Oct 08, 2022
RedboneSmith:


His conclusions from Crowther's writings are over-reaching. Crowther writes about a migration from areas under Benin's sovereignty. There's nothing there about the ethnicity or linguistic pedigree of these migrants. Not every area under Benin's political sphere of influence was Edo, as every scholar of Benin history already knows.

Asaba traditions actually speak of one of the pre-Nnebisi ancestors as Eze Anyanwu, who was connected to the royal line of Eze Chima. This 'Eze Anyanwu' is doubtless the embodiment of this migration from 'under Benin sovereignty' mentioned in Crowther's writings.

It remains to be proven that this Eze Anyanwu, just like Ezechima, was ethnically Edo. The names would suggest not. And like Ezechima, it is much more likely that the migration was from more westerly parts of the [b]Igboid-speaking Anioma area.

Are you really serious right now? There is no likely or maybe, forget your wishful thinking and go back to the page, it clearly states that Benin word for salutation and other phrases were still in use in 1875 Asaba by Asabans who claimed they migrated under the sovereign of the oba of Benin.

No matter how you try to spin it, Ajayi Crowder who was the linguistic that help the Igbo language a great deal knew who was Ibo and who was not in 1875, and according to him, the Asaba people of 1875 were not Ibo, they were people who were still using Benin word and phrases and whose habits were different from that of the Ibos.

Whoever you wish Asabans of 1875 to be, they were not Ibos according to Ajayi Crowder. Unless you can produce an eyewitness historical evidence that was written earlier than 1875 to support your position on this matter, you have no case.

History is not guess work or wishful thinking, you have to supply material evidences to support your position and at this point none of you have any material to counter my Ajayi Crowder 1875 eyewitness historical accounts and evidence. All you have so far are, maybe, more likely, I think or I believe.

In summary according to Ajayi Crowder 1875

1. Asabans were not Ibo
2. Asabans have habits that were different from Ibos
3. Asabans traditions says they migrated from the sovereign of the Oba of Benin
4. Asabans still used Benin word and phrases.

Who was Samuel Ajayi Crowder?

He was a linguistic giant who helped standardised the Yoruba and Igbo languages, his work help in the translation of the Bible in both yoruba and Igbo languages, so linguistically speaking, Ajayi knew who was Ibo and who was not in 1875.

Side Note:

The Ibo move in large numbers from their heartland of the south east to dominate Delta North and start to rewrite the history of the area, this was exactly what the Sadauna feared and spoke about in the 1950s that made him pursue his Northernization policy that put the North and her interests first to the exclusion of the Igbo who migrated to the North in large numbers. Igbo military boys eventually killed him and made Nigeria a unitary system under Ironsi, which later backfired.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L6coimsqIyw

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Re: My Historical Perspective On Eze Chima And Western Igbos by samuk: 7:58pm On Oct 08, 2022
gregyboy:



Nice one I learnt something its been a while i read something like this pertaining to edo history

It's been a while, I am glad you learnt something. These interventions is often necessary every now and then for the sake of our future generations. There are people whose goals are to rewrite Benin history. Unfortunately for them, there are enough materials on the archives from late 1400s to late 1800s ( about 400 years) to prevent their revisionists agenda, all we have to do is to research them and use them as evidences to counter their lies.
Re: My Historical Perspective On Eze Chima And Western Igbos by RedboneSmith(m): 9:51pm On Oct 08, 2022
samuk:


Are you really serious right now? There is no likely or maybe, forget you wishful thinking and go back to the page, it clearly states that Benin word for salutation and other phrases were still in use in 1875 Asaba by Asabans who claimed they migrated under the sovereign of the oba of Benin.

No matter how you try to spin it, Ajayi Crowder who was the linguistic that help the Igbo language a great deal knew who was Ibo and who was not in 1875, and according to him, the Asaba people of 1875 were not Ibo, they were people who were still using Benin word and phrases and whose habits were different from that of the Ibos.

Whoever you wish Asabans of 1875 to be, they were not Ibos according to Ajayi Crowder. Unless you can produce an eyewitness historical evidence that was written earlier than 1875 to support your position on this matter, you have no case.

History is not guess work or wishful thinking, you have to supply material evidences to support your position and at this point none of you have any material to counter my Ajayi Crowder 1875 eyewitness historical accounts and evidence. All you have so far are, maybe, more likely, I think or I believe.

In summary according to Ajayi Crowder 1875

1. Asabans were not Ibo
2. Asabans have habits that were different from Ibos
3. Asabans traditions says they migrated from the sovereign of the Oba of Benin
4. Asabans still used Benin word and phrases.

Who was Samuel Ajayi Crowder?

He was a linguistic giant who helped standardised the Yoruba and Igbo languages, his work help in the translation of the Bible in both yoruba and Igbo languages, so linguistically speaking, Ajayi knew who was Ibo and who was not in 1875.

Side Note:

The Ibo move in large numbers from their heartland of the south east to dominate Delta North and start to rewrite the history of the area, this was exactly what the Sadauna feared and spoke about in the 1950s that made him pursue his Northernization policy that put the North and her interests first to the exclusion of the Igbo who migrated to the North in large numbers. Igbo military boys eventually killed him and made Nigeria a unitary system under Ironsi, which later backfired.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L6coimsqIyw

There's a whole lot of mischaracterization in this lengthy write-up. Taking it piece by piece would be depriving myself of my much-needed and getting into an argument loop. Yes, you're over-reaching, sir. And that's that on that. smiley

6 Likes

Re: My Historical Perspective On Eze Chima And Western Igbos by Igboid: 11:31pm On Oct 08, 2022
Edos(Bini) should understand and accept that their small empire era is gone and never coming back forever.
Anioma is Igbo and has never been Edo. This should be common sense.
Anioma will only aggravate towards SE as time goes on.
Brothers will always settle differences and reunite.
Bini should make peace with their few LGAs in Edo stateand their people there and maybe try to reach out to their Edoid brothers like Esan, Etsako, Urhobo, Isoko, Epie-Etissa (Bayelsa), Engenni (Rivers State), Degema ( Rivers State), etc.

Maybe in time we could out of magnanimity give them back Ozanogogo (those are the only Edo people in Anioma) in exchange for Igbanke in Edo state.

Udo.

4 Likes

Re: My Historical Perspective On Eze Chima And Western Igbos by Probz(m): 4:18am On Oct 09, 2022
bigfrancis21:


Thanks for sharing the article. I wanted to see the original article to understand your original statement about: ‘Asaba fast loosing their edo language’. Your earlier statement does not appear induced nor insinuated in Ajayi’s writing that you referenced. Understood, a few words and cultural practices may have been borrowed from the Edo, plus maybe some later Edo migrants may have settled in Asaba, however it remains unlikely that the entire Asaba people originated from Edo.

Agreed. I’d say Asaba-people migrated from Nri more than anywhere-else (ditto for Iselle-and-Ogwashi-Ukwu folk). The whole Edoid-origin fixation wanes the closer you get to the nuclear Enuani-Igbo area (compared-to Bendel/Ika folk). Whatever more-westerly origins they have (unless they’re of the Olukunmi stock) hold no-more mmili in that sense than Igala does to good chunks of Anambra or Ibibio/Annang to Ohafia/Ngwa.

1 Like

Re: My Historical Perspective On Eze Chima And Western Igbos by samuk: 6:39am On Oct 09, 2022
Igboid:
Edos(Bini) should understand and accept that their small empire era is gone and never coming back forever.
Anioma is Igbo and has never been Edo. This should be common sense.
Anioma will only aggravate towards SE as time goes on.
Brothers will always settle differences and reunite.
Bini should make peace with their few LGAs in Edo stateand their people there and maybe try to reach out to their Edoid brothers like Esan, Etsako, Urhobo, Isoko, Epie-Etissa (Bayelsa), Engenni (Rivers State), Degema ( Rivers State), etc.

Maybe in time we could out of magnanimity give them back Ozanogogo (those are the only Edo people in Anioma) in exchange for Igbanke in Edo state.

Udo.

Who are we that you are referring to, Biafra? Since when did losers of war become magnanimous? The dream of Biafra was on a life support when you lost the civil war and was finally killed when the south South was created.

I understand your quest for land because just Edo and Delta (two state out of six south south states) are bigger in landmass than the entire five Eastern states. I repeat Edo and Delta are bigger than the entire south east in landmass.

Win or lose Obi can't resurrect Biafra, the northern political and military structure of over 50 years can't be dismantled in 4 years of Obi even if he wins and it's a big if even though I agree that he will probably win more votes in Benin city than his Anambra due to the ditribalised nature of Benin.

Biafra cannot be achieved by military means either, that was tried before and failed spectacularly and that was without south south as an entity/region. South East of 1967 that fought the civil war was far bigger than the south east of today. A good proportion of the Nigeria army of 1967 were pro Biafrans, it is not the same today. You can only romance the idea of Biafra in your head, that dream is long gone, dead and buried.

Forget the no victor no vanquish statement by general Gowon, there was a Victor and a vanquish, Biafra lost far more people, territories and mineral resources that never be regained. Your military and political structure pre civil war was also lost.

Guy/s wake up and smell the coffee, Biafra is long gone. Even if Nigeria decides to restructure, no south south state will agree to be part of south east. I don't see people like wike, okowa, etc surrendering their sovereignty to south east. Wike already see most south east governors as his boys and they follow him around like their master.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B3ANmx2mhOU

1 Like

Re: My Historical Perspective On Eze Chima And Western Igbos by Usenokpevbo: 7:11am On Oct 09, 2022
Probz:


Agreed. I’d say Asaba-people migrated from Nri more than anywhere-else (ditto for Iselle-and-Ogwashi-Ukwu folk). The whole Edoid-origin fixation wanes the closer you get to the nuclear Enuani-Igbo area (compared-to Bendel/Ika folk). Whatever more-westerly origins they have (unless they’re of the Olukunmi stock) hold no-more mmili in that sense than Igala does to good chunks of Anambra or Ibibio/Annang to Ohafia/Ngwa.
The Asabans claim relationship with Benin, which they call Idu,and the king, Obba,for whom they still retain great veneration, though they pay him no tribute. Tradition says they migrated from under that sovereignty through causes of war generations ago. The Benin word of salutation "Do" and other words and phrases, are retained, with habits very different from the Ibo, with whom they have now become almagamated.

You do say without evidence, this man has won the argument completely

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