annisy:
You are getting it wrong
Energy security is a matter of national security petrol, diesel, and Co is a matter of national security!!
Petrol is not like bread and should not be left in the hands of an individual or individuals to determine the pricing,,
Energy securities is like DSS


You said affordability is non-issue! Honestly you need to read & do proper research, forget what our politicians are saying



Are you aware that because of Ukraine and Russia war the price of petroleum product and electricity in uk went up,the uk government brought out 10 billion pounds as subsidy or bail out to bring the price down..

And here we are in Africa buying into the cramp our leaders are saying that affordability is not a problem

Anyway reflect on all I have said and do your proper research, please don't use Ghana, Niger and Co when doing your research use serious nation

Petrol is not like bread
Remain bless

Then stop complaining about the status quo.

Simple.

You cannot sell fuel at a cost below its production and expect to have enough profit to keep refineries working.

Hard truth.

Venezeula sells fuel for N40 equivalent. In the over ten years since they did that...their refineries have collapsed.

Iran sells fuel cheap....and at the end, their national debt makes ours look like chicken feed.


Either we pay for the fuel at the pump...or we pay it at the IMF HQ...surrendering our economic security for cheap fuel

Or we remove subsidy, and the profit fuells job growth directly and indirectly, and more poor people get employed reducing the chances of crisis. Plus more investment

agadez007:
Yoruba people are quiet because some of them want emilokan to be there,so no wahala
Even if the country burns as far as emilokan wins
nobody is occupying Ojota because it’s not Jonathan

. Worst hypocrites in the whole universe. Follow spirits kill, follow humans come for condolence. Shoot in the bush, run come road begin ask you "who shoot?"

No who be this petroleum minister sef?

Kobonaire234:
Here is the problem

1.NNPC is bringing in fuel above N510 and selling it at N148 to depot as at this month...that is no longer sustainable.

2.From the article above, some indepdendent depots are buying from major marketers...at high prices...which means that they have to sell at a loss to keep to NNPC price of N179

3.Diesel costs are impuigning on overall fuel costs.


At the end, subsidy has to go to bring an end to the crisis.

I know, Nigerians will suffer. I wish it was not so, and to all those who insult me about my support for fuel subsidy removal....I have heard, I have considered it, and God knows that if there was a way to keep petrol at even N20 per liter for the sake of the poor and needy, I would take it.

But we cannot import fuel at N500 AND ABOVE , and sell it at N179, and expect miracles.

Even if we refine at home, we cannot refine fuel below N200 per liter. Before transport self.


You can insult me, you can abuse me, you can call me names, but if you won't sell at a loss....you cannot expect the petrol industry to sell at a loss...because you will encourage them to do sharp practices...which is what is happening.

It is wishful economics to import fuel at N510 and sell it at N148 and pay subsidy, that would have been used to pay for refineries , new and old...to cover the losses...while the cost of production goes up

The DSS move was lipstick on a pig. Lipstick on a pig won't turn it into Miss World...it will still be a pig. At the end, people were not moving product out because they could not afford to do so at a loss. DSS should have stuck to security. Economics is not their forte.



Either we pay the market price of fuel at the pump...like they do elsewhere...or we pay it at the IMF HQ, with them dictating the terms.


GEJ, in a way, was right in 2012. As was NOI and SLS.

Good morning.



Anyone quoting me to abuse should remember....NNPC brings in fuel at N510 as at November and sells it at N180 now. In June last year it was N261, in 2011 it was N99 and sell it at N65.

Also remember that we have been doing the same thing for several years....decades

Then a lot of things will make sense.

Thanks for playing.


Modified

HERE IS THE SOURCE OF THE N510 landing cost..

Salient points you made here, but don't forget that the NNPCL and the government are both very dishonest. Reports are rife about how they inflate the figures of the actual amount of imported prtroleum products so they can steal more money. You are likely to say that that loophole will be plugged through the removal of subsidy, but how do you expect the citizenry to trust these dishonest folks? What is the assurance that the money realised from scrapping subsidy will not be looted through other means? Do we still not have these dishonest and corrupt people in charge? Have we considered that with the removal of subsidy, there might still be other means of looting the country in the same oil sector?

I submit to you that corruption and dishonesty is the major problem here. My head supports the removal of subsidy but my heart tells me that these folks cannot be trusted one bit. They are full of lies and deceits.

PS: Any government that will remove subsidy should reverse all the tax increments that Buhari has carried out, open the borders (in the real sense of it, not on the pages of newspapers) and lift the embargo on essential commodities.

Your statement of "GEJ was right in a way" needs to be explained further.

In which kind of "in a way" do you mean?

Kobonaire234:
Here is the problem

1.NNPC is bringing in fuel above N510 and selling it at N148 to depot as at this month...that is no longer sustainable.

2.From the article above, some indepdendent depots are buying from major marketers...at high prices...which means that they have to sell at a loss to keep to NNPC price of N179

3.Diesel costs are impuigning on overall fuel costs.


At the end, subsidy has to go to bring an end to the crisis.

I know, Nigerians will suffer. I wish it was not so, and to all those who insult me about my support for fuel subsidy removal....I have heard, I have considered it, and God knows that if there was a way to keep petrol at even N20 per liter for the sake of the poor and needy, I would take it.

But we cannot import fuel at N500 AND ABOVE , and sell it at N179, and expect miracles.

Even if we refine at home, we cannot refine fuel below N200 per liter. Before transport self.


You can insult me, you can abuse me, you can call me names, but if you won't sell at a loss....you cannot expect the petrol industry to sell at a loss...because you will encourage them to do sharp practices...which is what is happening.

It is wishful economics to import fuel at N510 and sell it at N148 and pay subsidy, that would have been used to pay for refineries , new and old...to cover the losses...while the cost of production goes up

The DSS move was lipstick on a pig. Lipstick on a pig won't turn it into Miss World...it will still be a pig. At the end, people were not moving product out because they could not afford to do so at a loss. DSS should have stuck to security. Economics is not their forte.



Either we pay the market price of fuel at the pump...like they do elsewhere...or we pay it at the IMF HQ, with them dictating the terms.


GEJ, in a way, was right in 2012. As was NOI and SLS.

Good morning.



Anyone quoting me to abuse should remember....NNPC brings in fuel at N510 as at November and sells it at N180 now. In June last year it was N261, in 2011 it was N99 and sell it at N65.

Also remember that we have been doing the same thing for several years....decades

Then a lot of things will make sense.

Thanks for playing.


Modified

HERE IS THE SOURCE OF THE N510 landing cost..

Hi there,

What a fascinating article! I appreciate your insights into the economic realities that Nigeria is facing regarding fuel importation and subsidization.

It seems clear that something needs to change to avoid the situation continuing as it has for decades.

You are correct in saying that good economics cannot come from importing fuel at N510 and selling it at N148 and paying a subsidy - this only serves to cover losses and increases production costs which do not benefit anyone in the long run.

The DSS move did not achieve much either. As you said, lipstick on a pig won't do anything more than make it look prettier; people were still unable to move products out because they couldn't afford to do so.

It's also true that price controls are not the solution either - it would only lead to a shortage of fuel and increased smuggling and black market prices, thus creating an even bigger problem.

I think Nigeria needs more transparency so people can understand where their money is going, along with implementing better infrastructure, enabling smoother transportation of commodities.

By doing this, subsidies could be put towards projects that benefit citizens, like repairing roads and building schools.

Lol thought they claimed they had 50billion Litres in their depot

tabaralph:

You are right on point,deregulations of oil sector just like the communication sector is the best, the cost maybe unbearable initially but as more investors venture into into refinery buildings prices will ultimately go down, I remember I bought my first mtn sim for 30k that was when only mtn and econet were operating but as soon as glo, etisalat etc joined the race, there was stiff competition with different promos and we can all see the price of a SIM card today almost foc…let dangote start in January 2023 as promised and subsidy remove completely and use for other vital economy projects….

All of you keep on saying nonsense without having a deep thinking. Fine It's a welcome development If subsidy has to go and large chunk of the proceeds be used for development of Infrastructures. But will this be the Case? You and I know the money would end up in private pockets.

Secondly you keep comparing this Oil situation to that of Telecom. Ever since the Diesel & Kerosene were deregulated, Have the price decreased since we now have competitive marketers bringing It In? Even the Telecom charges are very costly these days but the thing Is Stable Service is assured even though It Is POOR SERVICE. To buttress my point concerning the Telecom Sector, They secretly Increased the prices of their service and yet decreased the Content being offered to the Customers. Eg 1GB of data now amounts to 100MBs but come at an Increased price. This Is exactly the Same fate that await PMS, Nigeria has no structure and pity for the Gullible People. If Subsidy Is finally removed, Fine PMS will start being available all the time but It will keep Increasing in Price with POOR CONTENT sold to the gullible and helpless masses.

One doesn't need to attend the four walls of a classroom to comprehend some happenings around the world provided you have an high Intellect. With observation, one would get his/her answers. Nonsense.

In case anyone does not understand what is happening, let me break it down for you real quick.

1. NNPC the major importer is importing fuel and selling to major marketers and depot owners at subsidized price.
2. The depot owners and major marketers, in a bid to make mad and unjustified profit sell to independent marketers and retailers at cutthroat price. This is despite getting it at subsidized price. They also decided to stifle supply to create an artificial scarcity to justify the arbitrary pricing which is clearly illegal. NNPC looks away.
3. Now note that even if subsidy was removed today and fuel import deregulated, most independent marketers don't have the means and ability to bring in fuel. That will still be done by the major marketers who will then have the field day to fix prices as they desire and push to independent marketers who will in turn push to the consumers. This price gorging will end up pushing the economy down the hill to abyss like Ghana and Zimbabwe.
4. If anyone doubts me, look at what is happening with diesel that has been deregulated since 2009. The price jumped from about 200/L to over 800/L this year alone without any cogent reason. And no importer of diesel has any plans of building a refinery despite the mad profit they're making

Kobonaire234:


Because since 1973, NNPC has not been allowed to make a profit refining it here at home...short answer.

Long answer: In order to help poor people, government controls the price of fuel, which means that profits are not sufficent to keep the refineries running well (unlike the GSM sector, where MTN, Airtel and Glo set their price, make their profit, and are able to pay for all the antenna and facilities without government help)

And yes, Buhari is to blame because he has not removed subsidy.

Good am.

Who hasn't allowed NNPC to make profits wile refining it here?

Respect55:

Who hasn't allowed NNPC to make profits wile refining it here?

NNPC has been forced to sell fuel below the production price for decades to 'help the poor'

Thus they haven't been able to make enough profits to keep refining fuel here

Thus by 2010, we were a net importer

The subsidy paid to cover the loss nnpc sustains is not enough to allow it make a profit.

You still haven't mentioned the underlying cause for why the NNPC is engaging in such a bad business practice. Why does the state of Texas in the United States have 29 functioning oil refineries, but NNPC budgets billions for maintaining oil refineries yet Nigeria still has to refine its crude abroad.

Kobonaire234:
Here is the problem

1.NNPC is bringing in fuel above N510 and selling it at N148 to depot as at this month...that is no longer sustainable.

2.From the article above, some indepdendent depots are buying from major marketers...at high prices...which means that they have to sell at a loss to keep to NNPC price of N179

3.Diesel costs are impuigning on overall fuel costs.


At the end, subsidy has to go to bring an end to the crisis.

I know, Nigerians will suffer. I wish it was not so, and to all those who insult me about my support for fuel subsidy removal....I have heard, I have considered it, and God knows that if there was a way to keep petrol at even N20 per liter for the sake of the poor and needy, I would take it.

But we cannot import fuel at N500 AND ABOVE , and sell it at N179, and expect miracles.

Even if we refine at home, we cannot refine fuel below N200 per liter. Before transport self.


You can insult me, you can abuse me, you can call me names, but if you won't sell at a loss....you cannot expect the petrol industry to sell at a loss...because you will encourage them to do sharp practices...which is what is happening.

It is wishful economics to import fuel at N510 and sell it at N148 and pay subsidy, that would have been used to pay for refineries , new and old...to cover the losses...while the cost of production goes up

The DSS move was lipstick on a pig. Lipstick on a pig won't turn it into Miss World...it will still be a pig. At the end, people were not moving product out because they could not afford to do so at a loss. DSS should have stuck to security. Economics is not their forte.



Either we pay the market price of fuel at the pump...like they do elsewhere...or we pay it at the IMF HQ, with them dictating the terms.


GEJ, in a way, was right in 2012. As was NOI and SLS.

Good morning.



Anyone quoting me to abuse should remember....NNPC brings in fuel at N510 as at November and sells it at N180 now. In June last year it was N261, in 2011 it was N99 and sell it at N65.

Also remember that we have been doing the same thing for several years....decades

Then a lot of things will make sense.

Thanks for playing.


Modified

HERE IS THE SOURCE OF THE N510 landing cost..

Kobonaire234:


And NNPC brings in fuel at N510/liter.

Learn to assimilate facts too ....once you do, everything makes sense

Thanks and good am.

Seems you did not read this part from your link

“Anywhere you have arbitrage, you will have these issues. As long as arbitrage is there, you will continue to have these issues and you cannot hold NNPC accountable for it because it is a value chain that involves everything and everybody.

“You cannot price it at the market today because of the socio-economic impact on the prices of PMS. Every country is doing something about high energy costs. Some have removed taxes on petroleum; this is a subsidy. NNPC Limited will no longer go to FAAC because we are expected to pay taxes, dividend and royalty.

Don't just take what suits you in the matter. Be open-minded to see the big picture

WarriorHero:
You still haven't mentioned the underlying cause for why the NNPC is engaging in such a bad business practice. Why does the state of Texas in the United States have 29 functioning oil refineries, but NNPC budgets billions for maintaining oil refineries yet Nigeria still has to refine its crude abroad.

Simple. They sell fuel below the production cost to 'help the poor'.

This meant in practice that over the years , no profit to run refineries adequately

In Texas, petrol is sold at a profit

Why does Nigeria not have a single functioning refinery, but Texas with a population of under 30 million has 29?

Kobonaire234:


Simple. They sell fuel below the production cost to 'help the poor'.

This meant in practice that over the years , no profit to run refineries adequately

In Texas, petrol is sold at a profit

Agbegbaorogboye:


Seems you did not read this part from your link


Don't just take what suits you in the matter. Be open-minded to see the big picture

And NNPC still brings in fuel at 510 naira.

Sorry, but if you want cheap fuel, it is your choice. Me, i choose reality. You can keep on believing that fuel can be sold at 40.naira.

Good afternoon.

Kobonaire234:


But of course...diesel costs impigune on subsidy costs.

If you want cheap fuel , fine. I know the people will suffer if subsidy goes. But the sad thing is...fuel costs N510 per liter to bring in.

What is it with you and subsidy self.
What does diesel cost have to do with subsidy
Fuel costs 510/l to bring in because the refineries are not working. Go back and read that your link. It's more about arbitrage not standardized cost. Arbitrage is always subject to abuses

WarriorHero:
Why does Nigeria not have a single functioning refinery, but Texas with a population of under 30 million has 29?

Because texas sells fuel at a profit. We dont thanks to subsidy.

Agbegbaorogboye:

What is it with you and subsidy self.
What does diesel cost have to do with subsidy
Fuel costs 510/l to bring in because the refineries are not working. Go back and read that your link. It's more about arbitrage not standardized cost. Arbitrage is always subject to abuses

The refineries are.not working because people like you don't want fuel sold at a profit.

You want it sold at a loss to help the poor.

The last time all 4 of Nigeria's refineries were working in the 1980s, they were profit making ventures. The question is why didn't the NNPC build new refineries to deal with rising demand and why did they allow the old refineries to fall into disrepair?

Kobonaire234:


Because texas sells fuel at a profit. We dont thanks to subsidy.

WarriorHero:
The last time all 4 of Nigeria's refineries were working in the 1980s, they were profit making ventures. The question is why didn't the NNPC build new refineries to deal with rising demand and why did they allow the old refineries to fall into disrepair?

Yes because they had just been built

Eventually the subsidy madness caught up with them when goverment widened the scope of the subsidy

The result is what you see now.

Sell at a loss....

Goverment by the end of the 1980s was making refineries sell fuel at a loss and paying a subsidy that did not cover the loss. Theresult was bad profits and bad refineries


They don't do that in Texas

Is it fair that the ordinary Nigerian has to pay the price for government incompetence?

Kobonaire234:


Yes because they had just been built

Eventually the subsidy madness caught up with them when goverment widened the scope of the subsidy

The result is what you see now.

Sell at a loss....

WarriorHero:
Is it fair that the ordinary Nigerian has to pay the price for government incompetence?

Run for office then. Im not in goverment, and i never votedfor Buhari even.

Petrol costs money.

Petrol costs .money

Agbegbaorogboye:

What is it with you and subsidy self.
What does diesel cost have to do with subsidy
Fuel costs 510/l to bring in because the refineries are not working. Go back and read that your link. It's more about arbitrage not standardized cost. Arbitrage is always subject to abuses

No, fuel costs 510.naira.because of increasing refining costs and transport costs

You don't want to pay high prices for fuel.

And no matter how much you miss the forest for the trees, fuel costs 510 to bring in. NNPC loses money subsidising it. Accept the truth

If the refineries were working it won't cost less than 250 naira either.

You want cheap fuel. Nothing wrong with that. But it is not realistic.

Evolutionlove:


All of you keep on saying nonsense without having a deep thinking. Fine It's a welcome development If subsidy has to go and large chunk of the proceeds be used for development of Infrastructures. But will this be the Case? You and I know the money would end up in private pockets.

Secondly you keep comparing this Oil situation to that of Telecom. Ever since the Diesel & Kerosene were deregulated, Have the price decreased since we have competitive marketers bringing It In? Even the Telecom charges are very costly these days but the thing Is Stable Service is assured even though It Is POOR SERVICE. To buttress my point concerning the Telecom Sector, They secretly Increased the prices of their service and yet decreased the Content being offered to the Customers. Eg 1GB of data now amounts to 100MBs but come at an Increased price. This Is exactly the Same fate that await PMS, Nigeria has no structure and pity for the Gullible People. If Subsidy Is finally removed, Fine PMS will start being available all the time but It will keep Increasing in Price with POOR CONTENT sold to the gullible and helpless masses.

You don't need to attend the four walls of a classroom to comprehend some happenings around the world provided you have an high Intellect. With observation, one would get his/her answers. Nonsense.

Must you insult to pass your message across..who damaged you this way?

Kobonaire234:


No, fuel costs 510.naira.because of increasinf refining costs and transport costs

You don't want to pay high prices for fuel.

And no matter how much you miss the forest for the trees, fuel costs 510 to bring in. NNPC loses money subsidising it. Accept the truth

Refining costs? Transport costs? Have you seen the template? You don't have the template do you? I'm giving you the exact words of the NNPC GMD straight from your own link and you're arguing with it.
You seem to know more than the GMD who says it's all arbitrary

Kobonaire234:


NNPC brings in fuel and then sells it for less than the cost of bringing it in and the cost of production

When we had refinereis...NNPC was selling fuel below the production cost...

In both instances, there was a difference...the subsidy...which had to be paid. Subsidies are never enough to cover the difference

And now you know...no profits, chronic losses...bad refinereis...we became a net importer by 2010

Remove subsidy, let fuel be sold for a profit....we won't need to have any refining at home issue.




And do grow up, dear boy. Insults don't become you

No true, we were refining fuel up to 2014, why you insist on making the arguments for continuous imports is strange to me. Its either you dont pay for your fuel or you re a crony benefiting from subsidy.

Kobonaire234:
Here is the problem

1.NNPC is bringing in fuel above N510 and selling it at N148 to depot as at this month...that is no longer sustainable.

2.From the article above, some indepdendent depots are buying from major marketers...at high prices...which means that they have to sell at a loss to keep to NNPC price of N179

3.Diesel costs are impuigning on overall fuel costs.


At the end, subsidy has to go to bring an end to the crisis.

I know, Nigerians will suffer. I wish it was not so, and to all those who insult me about my support for fuel subsidy removal....I have heard, I have considered it, and God knows that if there was a way to keep petrol at even N20 per liter for the sake of the poor and needy, I would take it.

But we cannot import fuel at N500 AND ABOVE , and sell it at N179, and expect miracles.

Even if we refine at home, we cannot refine fuel below N200 per liter. Before transport self.


You can insult me, you can abuse me, you can call me names, but if you won't sell at a loss....you cannot expect the petrol industry to sell at a loss...because you will encourage them to do sharp practices...which is what is happening.

It is wishful economics to import fuel at N510 and sell it at N148 and pay subsidy, that would have been used to pay for refineries , new and old...to cover the losses...while the cost of production goes up

The DSS move was lipstick on a pig. Lipstick on a pig won't turn it into Miss World...it will still be a pig. At the end, people were not moving product out because they could not afford to do so at a loss. DSS should have stuck to security. Economics is not their forte.



Either we pay the market price of fuel at the pump...like they do elsewhere...or we pay it at the IMF HQ, with them dictating the terms.


GEJ, in a way, was right in 2012. As was NOI and SLS.

Good morning.



Anyone quoting me to abuse should remember....NNPC brings in fuel at N510 as at November and sells it at N180 now. In June last year it was N261, in 2011 it was N99 and sell it at N65.

Also remember that we have been doing the same thing for several years....decades

Then a lot of things will make sense.

Thanks for playing.


Modified

HERE IS THE SOURCE OF THE N510 landing cost..

Correct analytics.

Agbegbaorogboye:

Refining costs? Transport costs? Have you seen the template? You don't have the template do you? I'm giving you the exact words of the NNPC GMD straight from your own link and you're arguing with it.
You seem to know more than the GMD who says it's all arbitrary

You did not read the bit about how environmental laws and increased shipping costs affect the price

But then again, the solution has always been deregulation

quentin06:


No true, we were refining fuel up to 2014, why you insist on making the arguments for continuous imports is strange to me. Its either you dont pay for your fuel or you re a crony benefiting from subsidy.

Well, if you want to stop imports you incentivze local production by deregulation

Kobonaire234:


The refineries are.not working because people like you don't want fuel sold at a profit.

You want it sold at a loss to help the poor.

Lol. That's what you tell yourself. I guess subsidy is the reason over 30bn has been spent on the refineries with no results.
Refinery not working is a technical/management issue not an economic issue.
No. I want fuel sold at the right price to protect the economy. The poor don't use as much fuel as the rich. But the poor feel the effects of an ailing economy more than the rich.

quentin06:


No true, we were refining fuel up to 2014, why you insist on making the arguments for continuous imports is strange to me. Its either you dont pay for your fuel or you re a crony benefiting from subsidy.

Which refinery? Refining 1,105 barrels a day from a max capacity of 27,000 is not considered refining.