Realists:


Who dares the cabals dares the Devil to a one on one duel. The Government should borrow $5 Billion dollars to build a new Refinery and not borrow money to pay subsidy.

Yes, and then the problem comes .....how does the loan get paid back?

Assuming someone was offering such a loan, it would come with the condition that subsidy goes...because for such projects...people want their money back. And with subsidy in place, the refinery will lose money. Price controls.

Dangote has taken at least 6bn dollars for his refinery. The banks and other bodies that gave him that loan gave him because they knows they will get their money back. Loan no be free gift...which is why many of us feel annoyed with APC government borrowing.

P.S The cabals benefit more from zero subsidy than they do from subsidy. So do ordinary Nigerians.

Kobonaire2023:


Dangote does not run a monopoly on cement...BUA, lafarge, and at least one other player dey. You do not live in a country where you MUST buy dangote cement.

As for the refinery, remember anytime we say that subsidy must go, and you guys come and tell us that we are oppressors? Well, the fact is, because subsidy has not gone yet, no one wants to come in and invest in refinery, and sell fuel at a loss from that refinery because subsidy. Even Dangote that is building that refinery.....if he is forced to sell fuel at N180 per liter....that refinery would look like the run down NNPC refineries in ten years.

MR it's obvious the fucking subsidy in place already is unarguably a waste of time, an avenue to impoverish Nigerians...

My goodness sake!! Why can't the government build a refinary Build a gwd dam refinary; instead of borrowing to import refined product.... This is shameful coming from the fucking finance minister

Grgton:
MR it's obvious the fucking subsidy in place already is unarguably a waste of time, an avenue to impoverish Nigerians...

Yes, it is true, but anytime it is suggested it must be removed, Nigerians always say no. That is why it is still there.

My goodness sake!! Why can't the government build a refinary Build a gwd dam refinary; instead of borrowing to import refined product.... This is shameful coming from the fucking finance minister

[/quote]

1.Because subsidy

2. Subsidy means that NNPC in essence...roughly spekaing...sells fuel at a loss. As a result there is no money to build, expand and remodel refineries.

And part of the subsidy money goes to keep NNPC from collapsing due to selling fuel at a loss to help the poor. Because it is free money it feeds the corruption in NNPC.

I'm not holding brief for the Finance minister...but what she is saying is the ouitcome of keeping subsidy for over 50 years.

The problem with subsidy is that the more the cost of producing one liter of fuel rises, the more the cost of the subsidy...which means that you start spending more and more of your income on subsidy. Since refineries can not be run at a profit under subsidy, they collapse, and as a result you spend more of the revenue importing and importing


Whereas if subsidy had gone in 2012, maybe by now we would be paying N600 per liter of fuel, but we won't be having all this problem, and we may even have more working refineries completed or in the pipeline.

when are they listing Nigeria for sale on JIji

This Zainab is a great disaster to happen to Nigeria at this time.

Kobonaire2023:


Dangote does not run a monopoly on cement...BUA, lafarge, and at least one other player dey. You do not live in a country where you MUST buy dangote cement.

As for the refinery, remember anytime we say that subsidy must go, and you guys come and tell us that we are oppressors? Well, the fact is, because subsidy has not gone yet, no one wants to come in and invest in refinery, and sell fuel at a loss from that refinery because subsidy. Even Dangote that is building that refinery.....if he is forced to sell fuel at N180 per liter....that refinery would look like the run down NNPC refineries in ten years.

I love AND hate arguing with educated Nigerians. It's so fuuuunnnny and sad at the same time.

Why should you or anyone have to explain that Dangote Cement is NOT a monopoly? It's blatantly obvious that Unicem, BUA and other cement companies exist. This is the favorite rhetorical recourse of Nigerians, everybody from MTN to Dangote to DSTV is a monopoly.

Kobonaire2023:


Yes, it is true, but anytime it is suggested it must be removed, Nigerians always say no. That is why it is still there.

Whereas if subsidy had gone in 2012, maybe by now we would be paying N600 per liter of fuel, but we won't be having all this problem, and we may even have more working refineries completed or in the pipeline.

My brother leave matter for Mathias. Nigerians are a special people!

This is the same thing Obi has been saying, you don't borrow for consumption. You only borrow for production. He has said it, nothing wrong in borrowing but borrow to produce and not to consume.

the world will be laughing at us now

Kobonaire2023:


Yes, it is true, but anytime it is suggested it must be removed, Nigerians always say no. That is why it is still there.



1.Because subsidy

2. Subsidy means that NNPC in essence...roughly spekaing...sells fuel at a loss. As a result there is no money to build, expand and remodel refineries.

And part of the subsidy money goes to keep NNPC from collapsing due to selling fuel at a loss to help the poor. Because it is free money it feeds the corruption in NNPC.

I'm not holding brief for the Finance minister...but what she is saying is the ouitcome of keeping subsidy for over 50 years.

The problem with subsidy is that the more the cost of producing one liter of fuel rises, the more the cost of the subsidy...which means that you start spending more and more of your income on subsidy. Since refineries can not be run at a profit under subsidy, they collapse, and as a result you spend more of the revenue importing and importing


Whereas if subsidy had gone in 2012, maybe by now we would be paying N600 per liter of fuel, but we won't be having all this problem, and we may even have more working refineries completed or in the pipeline.

what is the essence? Fuel price has increased since then despite the subsidy


The only solution is we building our own functional "" I mean functional refinery. . God can not come down to do it for us.

Else the finance minister will continue borrowing to import subsidised fuel

Lol really funny

Jagaban promised to kontinue from where
Baba
Stop



Vote wisely �

Grgton:
what is the essence? Fuel price has increased since then despite the subsidy

Yes, because the amount budgeted for subsidy has been overtaken by events.

In 2021, we spent 2.3 trillion on subsidy. By August 2022, we had spent 2.6 trillion on subsidy, for the year 2022, and the year was not over.

Reason: In February 2022...Russia invaded Ukraine. Russia produces oil, and when an oil rich country is at war, oil prices go up.

That meant that the amount we needed to subsidsie fuel rose drastically beyond what was expected.

Throw in the bad weather of Aug-Sept, and the continued fall in the value of the naira, plus a rise in transport costs...diesel prices have risen sharply....and all of a sudden subsidy costs have increased way beyond NNPC's capacity to keep prices low.

That's why NNPC is slyly selling at a higher price to marketers....and prices are going up. The subsidy money can no longer cover the losses NNPC makes selling fuel below the cost price.

So, at the end of the day, either government pays more money for subsidy...which means that spending in other secotrs falls...or government does what is called a partial price increase...to say N250-300...to take some of the load off and save money.

Now, I am going to let you in on a secret...this has been going on for decades.

It's why fuel is not costing 15 kobo as it did in 1981, or N5 as it did in 1994.

The only solution is we building our own functional "" I mean functional refinery. . God can not come down to do it for us.

Like I say many times, we can have ten refineries up and running, if we make if profitable to refine fuel here by removing subsidy.

Can't let Dangote have the fun.

But since the 1980's everytime governments have suggested fuel subsidy removal...it has always met with a big NO from Nigerians...so....(Someone even came here to gloat over my supposedly cadaver that government will forever keep subsidy...lol).

Allow people to sell fuel at market price...so that there is profit to run the refinery.

Because anyone building a refinery is going to have to borrow money from banks to do so. And if the banks cannot be sure they would get their money because the new refinery owner is going to be selling fuel he refines at N300 per liter at N180 or even N40 to help the poor survive...they won't cough out money. (Government can help, but even though government gave dangote some money...at the end, the cash was a fraction of what he got from banks and co)

Else the finance minister will continue borrowing to import subsidised fuel

Yeah, because Nigerians think that cheap fuel is the be all that ends all. I know a lot of people say that Buhari misled Nigerians in 2012, BUT...he should have at least stopped playing politics and explained why subsidy had to go..and people like Tinubu knew better, yet opposed subsidy removal because politics.....but,,assuming they had explained to their support base why subsidy had to go in 2012, Nigerians, even then, would have still said NO.

There is no such thing as cheap fuel. People, including you, will not take a pay cut so that the poor can enjoy the service you provide for free. Forcing the petroleum industry to take a pay cut to give cheap fuel to the poor since 1973 has led us to having zero refining capacity, and having to import all our needs.

Lol really funny

Indeed.

What's the magic of refining petroleum? If Nigeria cannot refine petroleum, what stops us from privatizing our refineries to those who are capable to process the product here to do away with this subsidy brouhaha. It's obvious that many interests are in subsidy among other national challenges, that's why subsidy has been removed many times and terrorism defeated many times

This woman never gives good news


So so bad news

Harbinger of bad news

Kobonaire2023:


Yes, because the amount budgeted for subsidy has been overtaken by events.

In 2021, we spent 2.3 trillion on subsidy. By August 2022, we had spent 2.6 trillion on subsidy, for the year 2022, and the year was not over.

Reason: In February 2022...Russia invaded Ukraine. Russia produces oil, and when an oil rich country is at war, oil prices go up.

That meant that the amount we needed to subsidsie fuel rose drastically beyond what was expected.

Throw in the bad weather of Aug-Sept, and the continued fall in the value of the naira, plus a rise in transport costs...diesel prices have risen sharply....and all of a sudden subsidy costs have increased way beyond NNPC's capacity to keep prices low.

That's why NNPC is slyly selling at a higher price to marketers....and prices are going up. The subsidy money can no longer cover the losses NNPC makes selling fuel below the cost price.

So, at the end of the day, either government pays more money for subsidy...which means that spending in other secotrs falls...or government does what is called a partial price increase...to say N250-300...to take some of the load off and save money.

Now, I am going to let you in on a secret...this has been going on for decades.

It's why fuel is not costing 15 kobo as it did in 1981, or N5 as it did in 1994.



Like I say many times, we can have ten refineries up and running, if we make if profitable to refine fuel here by removing subsidy.

Can't let Dangote have the fun.

But since the 1980's everytime governments have suggested fuel subsidy removal...it has always met with a big NO from Nigerians...so....(Someone even came here to gloat over my supposedly cadaver that government will forever keep subsidy...lol).

Allow people to sell fuel at market price...so that there is profit to run the refinery.

Because anyone building a refinery is going to have to borrow money from banks to do so. And if the banks cannot be sure they would get their money because the new refinery owner is going to be selling fuel he refines at N300 per liter at N180 or even N40 to help the poor survive...they won't cough out money. (Government can help, but even though government gave dangote some money...at the end, the cash was a fraction of what he got from banks and co)




Yeah, because Nigerians think that cheap fuel is the be all that ends all. I know a lot of people say that Buhari misled Nigerians in 2012, BUT...he should have at least stopped playing politics and explained why subsidy had to go..and people like Tinubu knew better, yet opposed subsidy removal because politics.....but,,assuming they had explained to their support base why subsidy had to go in 2012, Nigerians, even then, would have still said NO.

There is no such thing as cheap fuel. People, including you, will not take a pay cut so that the poor can enjoy the service you provide for free. Forcing the petroleum industry to take a pay cut to give cheap fuel to the poor since 1973 has led us to having zero refining capacity, and having to import all our needs.




Indeed.

All this long story is unnecessary until the government is ready to do the needful by building her own refineries to work optimally. That's just the bane of the problem here. What is stopping successive government from building her refineries is what I don't know? Until there is this political will to do the right thing we will continue in this vicious circle. If our refineries are working optimally, the issue of subsidy will fizzle out automatically but those that are benefiting from it doesn't want it to work out.
Government passing the burden of their misgovernance to the ordinary people by arrogant removal of subsidy without considering its attendance effects on the people. Directly or indirectly fuel prices affect all value chain of life and it would affect low and average earners when the subsidy is removed.
In a nutshell, let all refineries work optimally with no need of taken crude oil out to refine, this will automatically bring the price of PMS and other subsidiary components down drastically and know one will even remember that subsidy exist.
We need a pragmatic leader that will unbundle the jinx in NNPC and also look into the face of the high and mighty in this oil industry that are benefiting heavily in oil importation.

IfnobeGod20:

All this long story is unnecessary until the government is ready to do the needful by building her own refineries to work optimally.

The long story is quite necessary because Nigerians are generally obtuse. More to the point, please note that NOTHING owned by government works optimally, whether in Nigeria or any other country on this earth. Government is innately inefficient, wasteful and corrupt. That's the nature of government.

IfnobeGod20:

All this long story is unnecessary until the government is ready to do the needful by building her own refineries to work optimally. That's just the bane of the problem here. What is stopping successive government from building her refineries is what I don't know? Until there is this political will to do the right thing we will continue in this vicious circle. If our refineries are working optimally, the issue of subsidy will fizzle out automatically but those that are benefiting from it doesn't want it to work out.
Government passing the burden of their misgovernance to the ordinary people by arrogant removal of subsidy without considering its attendance effects on the people. Directly or indirectly fuel prices affect all value chain of life and it would affect low and average earners when the subsidy is removed.
In a nutshell, let all refineries work optimally with no need of taken crude oil out to refine, this will automatically bring the price of PMS and other subsidiary components down drastically and know one will even remember that subsidy exist.
We need a pragmatic leader that will unbundle the jinx in NNPC and also look into the face of the high and mighty in this oil industry that are benefiting heavily in oil importation.

It is a good comment you make, but at the end of the day making and selling petrol is a business

And like most businessmen including you, they want and infact need to make a profit.

Stopping profit making in the petroleum sector to help the poor is why we don't have domestic refining unless you are Dangote who has sufficient collateral to take loans to build a refinery with the trimmings

They tell us they are borrowing but would never tell how they are stealing like hopeless rats.

Kobonaire2023:


It is a good comment you make, but at the end of the day making and selling petrol is a business

And like most businessmen including you, they want and infact need to make a profit.

Stopping profit making in the petroleum sector to help the poor is why we don't have domestic refining unless you are Dangote who has sufficient collateral to take loans to build a refinery with the trimmings

I am even surprise that none of the presidential candidate is talking about revamping of our moribund refineries to optimum level or even building new ones or coming to encourage private individual to build modular refineries that will be under the supervision of the government. The culture of taking crude oil abroad to refine without anyone considering building our own refineries is the worst thing our leaders have done to us as citizens and we tend to fold our hands and allow them to have field day on the business while the ordinary citizen languish in penury because of the attendant rise in food prices and other goods and services.

I am even so worry that they cannot think outside the box, if the country they are taking the crude oil to did not developed their own refineries would they take crude oil there? What a shame.
Can crude oil be brought to Nigeria also to be refine for other country as the so called "Giant of Africa".

As at today fuel are been sold between 260-350 naira depending on the location, as soon as the subsidy is totally removed, fuel will be sold between 350-450 naira per liter. You know what it means, all prices of goods and services will jump up again. Without been told, who do you thing will bear the effect more? The ordinary and the average earners.

We always think in the direction of our oppressors and not think in the direction of the ordinary or average earners on critical issue that can affect our national life.
We have serious problems before us in the nation, we should not because of few people and compound them by the total removal of subsidy but just need to think outside the box and do the needful. Build refineries and revamp the existing ones and make them work optimally and the issue of subsidy will fizzle out on its own Accord without government telling anyone. That's the only solution. The rest talk is just an act of dressing the wound without curing it.

IfnobeGod20:

I am even surprise that none of the presidential candidate is talking about revamping of our moribund refineries to optimum level or even building new ones or coming to encourage private individual to build modular refineries that will be under the supervision of the government. The culture of taking crude oil abroad to refine without anyone considering building our own refineries is the worst thing our leaders have done to us as citizens and we tend to fold our hands and allow them to have field day on the business while the ordinary citizen languish in penury because of the attendant rise in food prices and other goods and services.

I am even so worry that they cannot think outside the box, if the country they are taking the crude oil to did not developed their own refineries would they take crude oil there? What a shame.
Can crude oil be brought to Nigeria also to be refine for other country as the so called "Giant of Africa".

As at today fuel are been sold between 260-350 naira depending on the location, as soon as the subsidy is totally removed, fuel will be sold between 350-450 naira per liter. You know what it means, all prices of goods and services will jump up again. Without been told, who do you thing will bear the effect more? The ordinary and the average earners.

We always think in the direction of our oppressors and not think in the direction of the ordinary or average earners on critical issue that can affect our national life.
We have serious problems before us in the nation, we should not because of few people and compound them by the total removal of subsidy but just need to think outside the box and do the needful. Build refineries and revamp the existing ones and make them work optimally and the issue of subsidy will fizzle out on its own Accord without government telling anyone. That's the only solution. The rest talk is just an act of dressing the wound without curing it.

At the end, you won't do your job for half the salary so that costs can be kept for helping yhe poor.

Kobonaire2023:


At the end, you won't do your job for half the salary so that costs can be kept for helping yhe poor.

Please how do you mean? What concern my salary with the issue at hand? I am not a politician and I do believe you don't know me or where I am working.
I think a reasonable person that love this country should always talk in the direction of what will soften our problems than compounding them.
It is a bad thing to be borrowing to pay subsidy, that's more of borrowing for consumption, which will have adverse effects on the economy. It really call for concern before it gets out of hand.
People earning less are at the receiving end of this mess. Please we just need be serious and be furious about the situation because it doesn't affect the politicians as it affect the ordinary people.

IfnobeGod20:

Please how do you mean? What concern my salary with the issue at hand? I am not a politician and I do believe you don't know me or where I am working.
I think a reasonable person that love this country should always talk in the direction of what will soften our problems than compounding them.
It is a bad thing to be borrowing to pay subsidy, that's more of borrowing for consumption, which will have adverse effects on the economy. It really call for concern before it gets out of hand.
People earning less are at the receiving end of this mess. Please we just need be serious and be furious about the situation because it doesn't affect the politicians as it affect the ordinary people.

In march 2021, it cost N230 to bring in one liter of fuel into the country....by November 2022 it was N510. Cost is still rising.

Meanwhile, fuel has been costing N165 and now it is N180 at the pump...meaning that as at November NNPC was losing N330 at least to keep fuel cheap.

The subsidy money goes in part to covering the losses NNPC sustains doing so.

The problem is, oil prices. As the cost of crude goes up, so does the cost of fuel.

I said NNPC is losing N330 as at November...in March 2021 it was N75 at least.

Where is the subsidy money coming from...from other secotrs.

And this contributes to our deficit.

And at the end of the day we take loans and more loans....

And if we keep on doing this, one day the house will collapse.



Either we pay for fuel prices at the pump...or we will pay it at the World Bank. We are already doing so now.

Choose your hardship...a few years of price increase...or more big fat loans...and more debt.

In march 2021, it cost N230 to bring in one liter of fuel into the country....by November 2022 it was N510. Cost is still rising.

Meanwhile, fuel has been costing N165 and now it is N180 at the pump...meaning that as at November NNPC was losing N330 at least to keep fuel cheap.

The subsidy money goes in part to covering the losses NNPC sustains doing so.

The problem is, oil prices. As the cost of crude goes up, so does the cost of fuel.

I said NNPC is losing N330 as at November...in March 2021 it was N75 at least.

Where is the subsidy money coming from...from other secotrs.

And this contributes to our deficit.

And at the end of the day we take loans and more loans....

And if we keep on doing this, one day the house will collapse.



Either we pay for fuel prices at the pump...or we will pay it at the World Bank. We are already doing so now.

Choose your hardship...a few years of price increase...or more big fat loans...and more debt.

But why is the government refusing doing the right thing? What stops the government revamping the moribund refineries and even build new ones. With the new refineries and revamping the existing ones, the subsidy regime will fizzle out automatically but those benefiting from the subsidy regime doesn't want the right thing to be done. Until we fix the refineries and build the new one, we will continue to suffer unabated and the government will always transfer the burden to the citizens.
Funnily, none of the presidential candidate is talking about building refineries or revamping the existing ones to work optimally.
We have a bigger problem as a country because we like chasing shadows, instead of facing issues squarely and roundly.

IfnobeGod20:

But why is the government refusing doing the right thing? What stops the government revamping the moribund refineries and even build new ones. With the new refineries and revamping the existing ones, the subsidy regime will fizzle out automatically but those benefiting from the subsidy regime doesn't want the right thing to be done. Until we fix the refineries and build the new one, we will continue to suffer unabated and the government will always transfer the burden to the citizens.
Funnily, none of the presidential candidate is talking about building refineries or revamping the existing ones to work optimally.
We have a bigger problem as a country because we like chasing shadows, instead of facing issues squarely and roundly.

But why is the government refusing doing the right thing? What stops the government revamping the moribund refineries and even build new ones.

I believe Government is doing that already.

GeneralDae:



I believe Government is doing that already.

Where are they doing it? All refineries owned by government are moribund till date, aside Dangote that is building one in Lagos, which cannot carter for 20% of our daily consumption. Where they are taking the crude oil to, if their own refineries are moribund would they have the opportunity of taking the crude oil there. Common sense should have told them to fix theirs but no way.
Even if they cannot fix the existing ones, they should at least encourage modular refineries and empower private individuals to do so under the control of government. This will go along way to soften this perennial problem of subsidy regime that is crippling our economy.

IfnobeGod20:

Where are they doing it? All refineries owned by government are moribund till date, aside Dangote that is building one in Lagos, which cannot carter for 20% of our daily consumption. Where they are taking the crude oil to, if their own refineries are moribund would they have the opportunity of taking the crude oil there. Common sense should have told them to fix theirs but no way.
Even if they cannot fix the existing ones, they should at least encourage modular refineries and empower private individuals to do so under the control of government. This will go along way to soften this perennial problem of subsidy regime that is crippling our economy.

The first phase of the PortHarcourt Refinery to produce 60,000 Barrels per day is ongoing, so is Warri Refinery.
That PortHarcourt Refinery First Phase may likely begin production way before that of Dangote. Dangote Refinery from my calculations may come up last quarter of this year.

GeneralDae:

The first phase of the PortHarcourt Refinery to produce 60,000 Barrels per day is ongoing, so is Warri Refinery.
That PortHarcourt Refinery First Phase may likely begin production way before that of Dangote. Dangote Refinery from my calculations may come up last quarter of this year.

The then Minister for Petroleum in 2015 said thus:
Two of Nigeria’s four refineries will restart production in the next two weeks, the minister of state for petroleum resources, Ibe Kachikwu, has said.

Many papers reported as thus:
"48 trillion reportedly spent on maintaining the country's four refineries between 2015 and 2020 may have been stolen, mismanaged or diverted into private pockets. Joined in the suit as respondent was the Attorney General of the Federation and Minister of Justice, Mr. Abubakar Malami"

This is what another newspaper captioned:
"Nigeria's $26.5 billion maintenance cost enough to build three new ...
21 Mar 2021 — Port Harcourt refinery. The whopping sum of $26.5b, which the Federal Government has so far spent"

"Desmond Inyamah, acting managing director, Warri Refining and Petrochemical Company (WRPC), says the refinery will commence full operations in December 2023.17 Oct 2022"


"The Federal Government has said the Port Harcourt Refinery, which was initially scheduled to commence operations in December 2022, will now commence operations before the end of the first quarter of 2023"

My brother they have turned the revamping of our refineries to conduit pipe of siphoning our common wealth since 2015 and we are yet to record just one refinery functioning but today they are still promising us full operation of two refineries. In Yoruba land, there is a common saying, that says, "if you use thousand years to prepare for madness, how many year are you going to use to exhibit it?"
If you believe them, you can believe anything. They know what they are doing and they are not ready to do the needful and until we have leadership that will stand her ground and do the needful, we will continue to be in this mess corruption.
One of my key campaign in 2015 to people for Buhari was my believe that he will come and build our refineries and ease our problem of buying fuel at high price but till date I was disappointed.

IfnobeGod20:

But why is the government refusing doing the right thing? What stops the government revamping the moribund refineries and even build new ones. With the new refineries and revamping the existing ones, the subsidy regime will fizzle out automatically but those benefiting from the subsidy regime doesn't want the right thing to be done. Until we fix the refineries and build the new one, we will continue to suffer unabated and the government will always transfer the burden to the citizens.
Funnily, none of the presidential candidate is talking about building refineries or revamping the existing ones to work optimally.
We have a bigger problem as a country because we like chasing shadows, instead of facing issues squarely and roundly.

Revamping refineries won't give you 40 naira fuel

Kobonaire4:


Revamping refineries won't give you 40 naira fuel

But it will remove the landing cost of import from abroad my brother. The landing cost is what is escalating the cost price of PMS and other sharp practices.

IfnobeGod20:

But it will remove the landing cost of import from abroad my brother. The landing cost is what is escalating the cost price of PMS and other sharp practices.

It still won't give you N40 fuel, or fuel below N200.