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He Has Qualified You - Pastor Chris - Religion - Nairaland

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He Has Qualified You - Pastor Chris by Joagbaje(m): 11:03am On Sep 10, 2011
Whosoever shall eat this bread, and drink this cup of the Lord, unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord (1 Corinthians 11:27).

Many years back, I was in a communion service and while the bread was being passed, some people refused to take it because of their misconception of our opening scripture. They claimed they didn’t want to be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord, because they considered themselves unqualified or unworthy to receive the Holy Communion.

The word “unworthily” used in our opening verse is not the same as “unworthy.” It’s a Greek word that means irreverently; it refers to a manner of operation. The Bible is instructing us here not to abstain from the communion but to participate in it reverently! The reason being that the communion is a demonstration of your faith in the body of Jesus Christ and what He’s done for us! “What if I did something wrong the day before, can I still go ahead and partake of the Holy Communion?” you might want to ask. Emphatically yes. As a matter of fact that’s when you need the communion the most.

Remember, His body was broken for you, and His blood was shed for your justification. As you take the communion you’re asserting your faith in the cleansing power of His blood that was shed for you, to wash you as white as snow. Never allow the devil cheat you out of your inheritance through his railing accusations. If you do something wrong, acknowledge it and then accept the Lord’s forgiveness. As you accept His forgiveness, have it in your heart that you’ve been cleansed from all unrighteousness, and also remember your oneness with Him.

Colossians 1:12 AMP says

, “Giving thanks to the father, who has qualified and made us fit to share the portion which is the inheritance of the saints (God’s holy people) in the light.”

So as you take communion on your own or as a group in Church, feel free to call forth any blessing you want in your life. Give thanks and be grateful to the Lord for qualifying you to have part in what He promised His people in the Kingdom of light. Christ has made you worthy to take the communion at any time; it’s a qualification by grace; you didn’t ask for it.

Prayer
Righteous Father, I’m so thankful for your love and tender mercies towards me! I thank you for making me a new creation, thus qualifying me to be a partaker of your glorious inheritance! I’m forever grateful for the blood of Jesus that was shed to purge me of all unrighteousness, and His body that was broken for me to have life, joy and peace. Amen.

Further Study
1 Corinthians 11:29
For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord's body
Re: He Has Qualified You - Pastor Chris by italo: 10:10am On Sep 12, 2011
What exactly is 'Holy Communion' to you.
Re: He Has Qualified You - Pastor Chris by LoveKing(m): 1:16pm On Sep 12, 2011
italo:

What exactly is 'Holy Communion' to you.

Good question
Re: He Has Qualified You - Pastor Chris by PastorKun(m): 1:50pm On Sep 12, 2011
It is amazing that pastor chris would use a bible concordance to get the original greek word used for some scriptures that appear fuzzy in the bible yet would refuse to do so and rather obfuscate scriptures more on issues that has to do with money and other feel good doctrines he spews out in his junk gospel.
Re: He Has Qualified You - Pastor Chris by Joagbaje(m): 4:26pm On Sep 14, 2011
. . . .14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
1 Corinthians 2:14
Re: He Has Qualified You - Pastor Chris by newmi(m): 9:55pm On Sep 14, 2011
You know it is pleasing to know that Christ is my QUALIFICATION
Colossians 1:12
"Giving thanks to the Father, Who has qualified and made us fit to share the a portion which is the inheritance of the saints( God's holy people) in the Light"
isn't amazing that l didnt have to do anything to be considered or declared "fit" to "share in" or "participate in" the portion of the saints but rather all l simply do is accept what "The Father" HAS ALREADY DONE. This is the beauty of the gospel of Jesus Christ.
Re: He Has Qualified You - Pastor Chris by italo: 7:12am On Sep 15, 2011
@Newmi

Are you trying to say, as far as you believe and accept Jesus, you are saved, regardless of what you do or do not do with your life?

@Joagbaje

I still expect your response. What is Holy Communion to you?

Thanks.
Re: He Has Qualified You - Pastor Chris by wordtalk(m): 9:16am On Sep 15, 2011
italo:

Are you trying to say, as far as you believe and accept Jesus, you are saved, regardless of what you do or do not do with your life?

1.  Salvation is obtained by simply believing in Jesus Christ (Acts 16:31).

2.  You don't do anything to earn salvation which is by grace and mercy of God alone (2 Tim. 1:9 and Titus 3:5)

3.  The 'works' of the believer are for rewards, not for obtaining salvation (see 1 Corinthians 3:11-15 and 5:1-5).


I still expect your response. What is Holy Communion to you?

I'm not PRO for Joagbaje; but whatever arguments may entail, Holy Communion does not save anybody. It is one of the rites that Christians celebrate following salvation - it is not a rite for obtaining salvation for anyone.
Re: He Has Qualified You - Pastor Chris by italo: 11:33am On Sep 15, 2011
@Wordtalk

Firstly you must know that I don't think you are saved just by your works. I believe salvation is by the grace of God but the human response which is FAITH & WORKS are necessary for salvation (faith working through love).

In a nutshell, both faith and works are necessary, not faith alone.

Acts 16:31 shows dat u need to have faith to be saved, but it doesn't show that you only need faith and not works.

It's like a student asking 'what must I do to pass the test?' And a teacher answering 'you hav 2kno everything we've done in class'. Does that mean that writing the exam is not necessary for the student to pass the exam? Of course it is.
Re: He Has Qualified You - Pastor Chris by italo: 12:06pm On Sep 15, 2011
I see you don't realize that 1Cor 3: 11-15 is talking about heaven and purgatory. However that is another topic.

But for this topic, notice how everyone who was saved had works. Whether they were burned or they stood, they had works. They all did their works on the foundation which is Christ.

Now do you wonder where those who had no works at all are? They are further down in verse 17. That's those who will go to hell. Those who, rather than build, destroyed. "God will destroy them".
Re: He Has Qualified You - Pastor Chris by Joagbaje(m): 12:53pm On Sep 15, 2011
italo:

@Joagbaje
I still expect your response. What is Holy Communion to you?
Thanks.

Holy communion is the partaking of bread and wine in commemoration of the blood and body of christ. By this we invoke the power of the blood and the redirection power against every workings of Satan . Sin,poverty,death etc.
Re: He Has Qualified You - Pastor Chris by italo: 12:55pm On Sep 15, 2011
And pls 1Cor 5:1-5 is saying we should excommunicate the sinner that he might come to repentace and be saved. It doesn't mean in spite of his atrocities, he'll be saved o. Pls compare the punishment to the one in 2Cor 2: 5-11
Re: He Has Qualified You - Pastor Chris by Joagbaje(m): 1:01pm On Sep 15, 2011
italo:

And pls 1Cor 5:1-5 is saying we should excommunicate the sinner that he might come to repentace and be saved. It doesn't mean in spite of his atrocities, he'll be saved o. Pls compare the punishment to the one in 2Cor 2: 5-11

What has this got to do with communion.
Re: He Has Qualified You - Pastor Chris by italo: 1:55pm On Sep 15, 2011
Sori, Easy, I was replying wordtalk
Re: He Has Qualified You - Pastor Chris by wordtalk(m): 2:24pm On Sep 15, 2011
italo:

@Wordtalk

Firstly you must know that I don't think you are saved just by your works. I believe salvation is by the grace of God but the human response which is FAITH & WORKS are necessary for salvation (faith working through love).

No sir. Faith in Jesus Christ obtains salvation for those who believe (John 3:16); and works are for rewards for those who have received Christ as Saviour (Ephesians 2:9-10).

The thrust of the Gospel in the NT is that salvation is not by the works of any believer:

1.  "For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast" (Ephesians 2:8-9)

2.  "For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God" (Romans 4:2)

3.  [God] "Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began" (2 Timothy 1:9)

4.  "Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost" (Titus 3:5)

A salvation by 'faith and works' is NOT the Gospel of Jesus Christ, as is clear from the examples of verses cited above. Salvation is freely given through God's grace to all who believe - for God is the Justifier of those who are not seeking salvation through works but rather through believing (Romans 4:5).


In a nutshell, both faith and works are necessary, not faith alone.

No, faith in Christ alone procures salvation. The 'works' do not procure salvation but only follow as a consequence of having received salvation.


Acts 16:31 shows dat u need to have faith to be saved, but it doesn't show that you only need faith and not works.

ACts 16:31 would have included 'works' if that was also necessary for salvation; but it does not do so - as it is clear that salvation throughout the NT is based only of the faith that a believer has in Jesus Christ.


It's like a student asking 'what must I do to pass the test?' And a teacher answering 'you hav 2kno everything we've done in class'. Does that mean that writing the exam is not necessary for the student to pass the exam? Of course it is.

Sir, that is an example of false analogy in logical reasoning. Salvation is NOT procured through our works - it is a GIFT from God. The moment you set up certain tests and exams to be passed through the hard work of certain students, you're turning to something else and not the GRACE of God. What does Romans 11:6 say? Read it -

[list][li]And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace.[/li][/list]

[list][li]But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work."[/li][/list]

I hope that helps.





italo:

I see you don't realize that 1Cor 3: 11-15 is talking about heaven and purgatory. However that is another topic.

Sorry, there is no purgatory in the Bible. grin

But for this topic, notice how everyone who was saved had works. Whether they were burned or they stood, they had works. They all did their works on the foundation which is Christ.


You should read well that passage - it does not say that their works saved them or that their works were necessary for their salvation. The 'works' were for "rewards", and salvation is not a reward for our works but rather a GIFT freely given to believers through GRACE by God. That is what 1 Corinthians 3:14 says -

[list][li]If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.[/li][/list]

If otherwise it could be argued that 'works' could procure salvation, what happens then to those whose works do not survive so that they lost everything? The answer? See verse 15 -

[list][li]If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire. [/li][/list]

Salvation is obtained through grace as a GIFT; our 'works' bear REWARDS. These two things are never confused in the NT.

Now do you wonder where those who had no works at all are? They are further down in verse 17. That's those who will go to hell. Those who, rather than build, destroyed. "God will destroy them".

Those who had "no works" are not to be confused for BELIEVERS whose works are for REWARDS. cheesy
Re: He Has Qualified You - Pastor Chris by italo: 2:31pm On Sep 15, 2011
Holy Communion is eating the body of Christ and drinking his blood. It is not a mere commemoration. That's not what Jesus said. And as it is in the old testament, you don't hav the right to offer the lamb in sacrifice if you are not an ordained priest. That is as bad as eating and drinking unworthily
Re: He Has Qualified You - Pastor Chris by italo: 2:42pm On Sep 15, 2011
Bros, purgatory is in d bible. It just isn't spelt out as P-U-R-G-A-T-O-R-Y.

What about 'bible', is it in the bible?

What about holy communion?

What about Trinity?

Would you say these are not in the bible too?
Re: He Has Qualified You - Pastor Chris by italo: 2:49pm On Sep 15, 2011
Abt faith and works, pls read James 2:14-26.

Verse 24 says: you see then that a man is justified by works, not by faith alone.

I hope this helps both of us
Re: He Has Qualified You - Pastor Chris by wordtalk(m): 4:30pm On Sep 15, 2011
italo:

Bros, purgatory is in d bible. It just isn't spelt out as P-U-R-G-A-T-O-R-Y.

Purgatory is not in the Bible, no matter how anyone wants to spell it. smiley

italo:

Abt faith and works, pls read James 2:14-26.

Verse 24 says: you see then that a man is justified by works, not by faith alone.

Thanks for pointing to James 2. It should be obvious that the gist of James argument is simply that the believer should prove his faith by his works (verses 17 & 18). James nowhere argues that 'works' procure salvation in Christ; rather he was pressing home just this point - "I will show you my faith by my works" (v. 18).

Using the example of Abraham in verses 21-24, the same point is more cogently driven home: Abraham proved his faith by his works, and not the other way round as you seem to be arguing. Scripture is clear that Abraham simply believed God, and it was on that basis alone that God counted him as righteous.

The scenario around Abraham is explained in Romans 4:2 - "For if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about, BUT NOT BEFORE GOD". Is it not clear yet that no one can boast of his or her own 'works' in matters of salvation before God, as in Ephesians 2:9 - ("not a result of works, so that no one may boast"wink?

In the justification connected with our salvation in Christ, it is everywhere testified that it is not based on our own works - no matter how good, righteous or dexterous. Isaiah the prophet already said that 'all our righteous deeds are like a polluted garment' (Isaiah 64:6, ESV) - and in many various ways all the prophets agree on that. It is God who justifies the believer on the basis of faith alone and not of works.

Salvation through God's grace is a GIFT, not a 'reward'. Our works after being saved bear the 'rewards' rather than the 'gift'. There is a difference between a GIFT and a REWARD. This is borne out in Romans 4.

[list][li]Now to the one who works, his wages are not counted as a gift but as his due.[/li][/list]

[list][li]And to the one who DOES NOT WORK but believes in him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is counted as righteousness.[/li][/list]

On the whole, James is not asking people to obtain salvation by 'faith + works'. In chapter 1 v 18 he already acknowledged that salvation is wholly and alone by God's will, not by man's doing - 'In accordance with his will he made us his children by the word of truth' (compare John 1:13). Rather, in chapter 2 he was urging those who have received salvation to show the reality of their faith by what they do and how they live ('I will show you my faith by my works' - verse 18).
Re: He Has Qualified You - Pastor Chris by italo: 5:00pm On Sep 15, 2011
You hav seen where the Bible says: "you see then that a man is justified by works, not by faith alone" ad you are still denying it.

Okay deny this one too:

Phillipians 2:12, 13: So then, my beloved, obedient as you have always been, not only when I am present but all the more now when I am absent, work out your salvation with fear and trembling.*
13
For God is the one who, for his good purpose, works in you both to desire and to work.

And then this:

Hebrew 12:14: follow peace with all men, and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord.

And you could twist the meaning of this verse too:

Romans 2:13: for not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.

And Matthew 7:21-27

And 1Cor 13:2 & 13.
Re: He Has Qualified You - Pastor Chris by wordtalk(m): 5:50pm On Sep 15, 2011
italo:

You hav seen where the Bible says: "you see then that a man is justified by works, not by faith alone" ad you are still denying it.

I did not 'deny' anything. Rather I explained what possibly could be meant by 'justified' as used by James in his epistle.

The apostle DID NOT ask people to procure salvation by 'faith + [works]'; instead, he was urging people to demonstrate the reality of their faith by what they do - which is the essence of verse 18 where he says: "I will show you my faith by my works". His epistle does not say 'I will be saved by my works', which is what you seem to be arguing without foundation.


Okay deny this one too:

Lol, please use words carefully. I did not deny anything - I rather tried to explain them. Huge difference between the two. But let me first answer your queries before I ask you to deal with the fact that people are not saved by works.

italo:

Phillipians 2:12, 13: So then, my beloved, obedient as you have always been, not only when I am present but all the more now when I am absent, work out your salvation with fear and trembling.*
13
For God is the one who, for his good purpose, works in you both to desire and to work.

Again, it is saying the same thing as I have tried to point out earlier. The 'works' of a believer in Christ follow after they have received salvation. Put them in juxtaposition and you will see the difference -

[center]'work out your salvation'[/center]

[center] IS NOT THE SAME AS[/center]

[center]'work in order to be saved'[/center]

To "work out" is not the same thing as to "work for" - the first (work out) is to demonstrate something that someone already has; the second one ("work for"wink is to engage in something as a means to obtain something else - and it is the second one that you argue which is not taught as the basis of our salvation in Christ.


And then this:

Hebrew 12:14: follow peace with all men, and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord.

Holiness is God's GIFT to Christians, just as righteousness and redemption (1 Cor. 1:30). It is not something we try to do of our own effort so that we can obtain salvation thereby - rather, these are qualities that we live by as a demonstration of having already received salvation in Christ.


Romans 2:13: for not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.

But sir, as a Christian are YOU a "DOER of the LAW" ? Do you not yet understand that NO MAN shall be justified by the works of the Law? Should I quote them for you? Sample these -

1.  For by works of the law no human being will be justified in his sight, since through the law comes knowledge of sin. [Romans 3:20]

2.  All have sinned and are justified by God's grace as a GIFT, through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus. Romans 3:23-24.

3.  We know that a person is NOT JUSTIFIED BY WORKS OF THE LAW but through faith in Jesus Christ. Galatians 2:16

4.  Now it is evident that NO ONE is justified before God by the law, for "The righteous shall live by faith. Galatians 3:11

So, italo. . . to argue to be a "doer of the Law" would only mean that you cannot be justified before God - for NO MAN is justified on the basis of the Law. Absolutely NO ONE.


And Matthew 7:21-27

Matthew 7:21 - "Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven." And so forth to verse 27.

What does it mean to do the will of the Father? Since you're interested in "works", then let me put it in the same manner of some who met Jesus at one time during His earthly ministry and asked Him a question in John 6:28 - "What shall we do, that we might work the works of God?"

And His answer? It's there in verse 29 - "This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent."

My dear italo, there is no "work" we can do to procure or add to our salvation. It is a GIFT - we BELIEVE and thereby RECEIVE. To add 'works' to this before you can receive is to turn aside to something totally outside of the will of the Father.


And 1Cor 13:2 & 13.

2 Corinthians 13:2 & 13 - "And if I have prophetic powers, and understand all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have all faith, so as to remove mountains, but have not love, I am nothing. . . .So now faith, hope, and love abide, these three; but the greatest of these is love." (ESV).

That passage does not teach that a person is saved by doing any 'works'. It rather presents the value of love as a vital part of the truly spiritual life of a believer. Love is the first thing that the apostle listed as the fruit of the Spirit in Galatians 5:22-23; and we know that the fruit of the Spirit is borne out in the lives of those who have already received salvation by faith in Christ and called to serve one another in the freedom that Jesus gives (Galatians 5:13).

Paul never taught the Corinthians or Galatians a doctrine of salvation or justification by 'works'.
Re: He Has Qualified You - Pastor Chris by wordtalk(m): 5:52pm On Sep 15, 2011
wordtalk:

But let me first answer your queries before I ask you to deal with the fact that people are not saved by works.

So, here is what I wanted you to deal with, italo. In the same manner as I have tried to provide answers to your queries, I wonder what you have to say on the FACT that the other verses I pointed out demonstrate clearly that salvation is NOT BY WORKS? What have you said about these verses -

wordtalk:

The thrust of the Gospel in the NT is that salvation is not by the works of any believer:

1. "For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast" (Ephesians 2:8-9)

2. "For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God" (Romans 4:2)

3. [God] "Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began" (2 Timothy 1:9)

4. "Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost" (Titus 3:5)

. . . so, italo - what do you have to say about those verses that show that salvation is NOT BY WORKS?
Re: He Has Qualified You - Pastor Chris by italo: 9:05pm On Sep 15, 2011
I would have loved to explain but after giving you these verses which clearly show that works are necessary for salvation and seeing you dribble around the words scandalously, its clear to me that you are more interested in your ego than finding out the truth.

In this case, what do you expect me to say? Afterall the same scriptures that christians used to discern the Messiah is the same one the Jews used to reject him.

You cannot be playing that 'work for' 'work out' trick and expect me to keep discussing the bible with you seriously.

And if purgatory is not in the bible, bible is not in the bible too. So its no use referring to the bible to prove or disprove anything. Its not scriptural.
Re: He Has Qualified You - Pastor Chris by wordtalk(m): 9:34pm On Sep 15, 2011
italo:

I would have loved to explain but after giving you these verses which clearly show that works are necessary for salvation and seeing you dribble around the words scandalously, its clear to me that you are more interested in your ego than finding out the truth.

This is not a question of dribbling around verses. The FACT is that there is not a single verse that teaches that works are necessary for salvation. That's why I wanted you to consider and address those verses I cited and repeated in post #21 above.

In this case, what do you expect me to say? Afterall the same scriptures that christians used to discern the Messiah is the same one the Jews used to reject him.

Please make up your mind: this is not a discussion about how some Jews reject the Messiah (not to even say anything about the FACT that MANY JEWS RECEIVED JESUS as their Messiah - John 11:45 and 12:42).

You cannot be playing that 'work for' 'work out' trick and expect me to keep discussing the bible with you seriously.

It's not a trick - common English bears out the point so well that they are not the same.

And if purgatory is not in the bible, bible is not in the bible too. So its no use referring to the bible to prove or disprove anything. Its not scriptural.

Let me make it simple: the doctrine of purgatory is not in the Bible. Happy now? grin
Re: He Has Qualified You - Pastor Chris by italo: 11:09pm On Sep 15, 2011
Oga, purgatory's in d Bible wether you can find it or not.

And like I said I'd love to discuss these things but not with someone who sees "work out your salvation" and says works have no effect on salvation. You are telling me that it is not 'work for'. So if I show you a place that says 'work for your salvation', you can as well tell me that its not the same thing as 'work towards your salvation'.

Looking at the number 1 definition of 'work out' in d pic and substituting it for work out in the verse, it reads 'achieve your salvation by effort'.
Re: He Has Qualified You - Pastor Chris by italo: 11:25pm On Sep 15, 2011
I hope 'achieve your salvation by effort' should be enough. It's afterall common English, like you said.

Re: He Has Qualified You - Pastor Chris by wordtalk(m): 8:02am On Sep 16, 2011
italo:

Oga, purgatory's in d Bible wether you can find it or not.

You can argue hard and long, but the doctrine of purgatory is not in the Bible. You like to see what is not there that is why you keep sounding it off like a broken record.


And like I said I'd love to discuss these things but not with someone who sees "work out your salvation" and says works have no effect on salvation.

Please don't confuse yourself all the more. There are more than a dozen verses that clearly show that nobody is saved by 'works' - I have quoted and reposted a few: see post #21. What do you have to say about those verses that clearly say that salvation is NOT BY WORKS? Why are you dodging behind excuses and evading those verses? smiley


You are telling me that it is not 'work for'. So if I show you a place that says 'work for your salvation', you can as well tell me that its not the same thing as 'work towards your salvation'.

Please show me a place that says you should 'work for your salvation' and I'll ask you again to deal with those verses that say salvation is not by 'works'.


Looking at the number 1 definition of 'work out' in d pic and substituting it for work out in the verse, it reads 'achieve your salvation by effort'.

Games. grin
To work out your salvation does not mean that you are saved by your works - this is why you have forever ducked behind excuses so as to avoid dealing with those verses that say that salvation is "not by works" (Titus 3:5).

There's nothing wrong with definitions, but there is something patently wrong with drawing conclusions that contradict the clear teaching of Scripture on a subject. An example: if you use the same FreeDictionary to look up the word SUFFER, you find that the number 1 definition there is stated as "To feel pain or distress; sustain loss, injury, harm, or punishment."

Now in Matthew 19:14 Jesus says "Suffer little children, and forbid them not, to come unto me" (KJV), would you then apply the same "number 1 definition of suffer" in FreeDictionary to conclude that Jesus is asking you to make little children to "feel pain, distress, injury, harm or punishment" so that they can come to Jesus? grin

Dude, when you want to cheat with English and pretend you don't understand the context of verses that clearly teach that salvation is 'NOT BY WORKS', you end up posting pictures of FreeDictionary to confuse things all the more for yourself. For all that, salvation is NOT BY WORKS - rather, it is the free GIFT of God. You will never obtain salvation in Jesus Christ by being a "doer of the Law" (as you earlier argued for, in quoting Romans 2:13).

italo:

I hope 'achieve your salvation by effort' should be enough. It's afterall common English, like you said.

Nobody is saved by 'works'. I hope this is clear as you read Titus 3:5 - afterall the English in that verse is not difficult to understand.
Re: He Has Qualified You - Pastor Chris by Joagbaje(m): 8:44am On Sep 16, 2011
italo:

Oga, purgatory's in d Bible wether you can find it or not.

There is no purgatory in the bible. If you feel there is, just simply show everybody . Maybe we can learn from you.


And like I said I'd love to discuss these things but not with someone who sees "work out your salvation" and says works have no effect on salvation. You are telling me that it is not 'work for'. So if I show you a place that says 'work for your salvation', you can as well tell me that its not the same thing as 'work towards your salvation'.

Well the only work is the work of faith, actions which accompanies our faith. It's a fruit of the inward experience.
Re: He Has Qualified You - Pastor Chris by italo: 10:07am On Sep 16, 2011
@Wordtalk, congrats on having the last word. *have a nice day*

@Joagbaje, at least you (unlike the master-dribbler) admit that there are works in there. "Actions which accompany our faith", you said.

Now let my summarize what I believe, as I have done earlier. We are saved by Grace alone, but the human response which is faith working through love is necessary. FAITH & WORKS are necessary. Do you still have any objection to that?

However, I must ask you, what do you seek? The truth or victory in this argument. Because the only way we can reason logically is if we both seek the truth.
Re: He Has Qualified You - Pastor Chris by italo: 10:15am On Sep 16, 2011
Before I can show you how purgatory is in the Bible, you have to know what we mean by purgatory. Do you?

I can't prove to you that an orange tree is in the bush if you don't even know what an orange tree is, can I?
Re: He Has Qualified You - Pastor Chris by Joagbaje(m): 11:19am On Sep 16, 2011
italo:

However, I must ask you, what do you seek? The truth or victory in this argument. Because the only way we can reason logically is if we both seek the truth.

of course we all seek truth. If we win argument at the expense f truth we haven't really won anything

.
italo:

Before I can show you how purgatory is in the Bible, you have to know what we mean by purgatory. Do you?
I can't prove to you that an orange tree is in the bush if you don't even know what an orange tree is, can I?

What I understand by purgatory is the idea that souls don't go to heaven or hell when they die. They are in a limbo Sleeping and they still have a chance of redeeming themselves if they've done damnable thing on earth
Re: He Has Qualified You - Pastor Chris by italo: 1:10pm On Sep 16, 2011
Purgatory is a place or condition of temporal punishment for those who, departing this life in God's grace, are, not entirely free from venial faults, or have not fully paid the satisfaction due to their transgressions.

Now in order to fully grasp this you must know that the Catholic Church teaches that we will pay for every sin we commit, in this life (through suffering, prayer, acts of charity etc) or in the next life (purgatory), even if those sins are already forgiven.

Purgatory is not for those who die in mortal sin (they go to hell), and those who die without mortal and venial sin and have fully suffered the temporal punishment for their forgiven sins go straight to heaven.

Dats for the explanation of what purgatory is. I'll be back with the scriptural backing.

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