Thewritingnerd:
I’m not parroting hearsay, I am telling you what is currently obtainable from where I work.

Dupyshoo, Goodenoch and others have also shared data and personal stories of the dire state of healthcare/healthcare system in the US and Nigeria. Ticha has also previously provided insights on Canada and NZ to provide a balanced view.

Point is you don't have to bash the NHS like it's much better or perfect elsewhere. You're entitled to your opinion obviously, but we don't have to agree.

Goodenoch:


1. Even when US roles come with insurance, people often are unable to still use it because the co-pays are too high.

"Just over half of working-age Americans say they sometimes can't afford health care, according to The Commonwealth Fund. About 4 in 10 workers with employer-sponsored insurance or who are on Medicaid say they have difficulty paying, while that rises to about 6 in 10 for people who buy coverage through the Affordable Care Act's marketplaces, the study found." Source: Paying for It: How Health Care Costs and Medical Debt Are Making Americans Sicker and Poorer - https://www.commonwealthfund.org/publications/surveys/2023/oct/paying-for-it-costs-debt-americans-sicker-poorer-2023-affordability-survey.

2. The word that needs to be in capitals is 'YOU', because it boils down to personal/family preferences. The idea that people are in the UK because they have no choice is funny. As others have said, the fact is that many people have the choice but have run the numbers/life priorities and have decided that it's better.

Personally, my experience with the NHS has been exceptional across the multiple places I've stayed, both in the GP and A & E contexts, so that has informed my perspective. That being said, things are clearly quite bad in many places (I didn't even know how bad before some of the links shared here), so urgent action is needed. Dismissing it as a 'hot mess' or 'totally failed' remains objectively absurd though, in my view.

I’m happy to draw a line on this matter so we don’t keep going on and on. I hear you, your problem with my anecdote was the language or semantics, I take it back. Instead of “hot mess” or “totally failed” I should have used milder language. Duly noted. Just know that narratives from people like me, who’ve been on the short end of the stick is what drove those journalists to write those articles. I’ve seen all sorts of disturbing stuff:
- WhatsApp groups advising people to exaggerate and act drama in waiting rooms to get attention,
- Lying to 111 staff that the patient is not breathing so ambulance can be sent asap
- Patients forced to pull out their own teeth at home because they cannot access NHS dentist

In my typical Nigerian experience, I never expected this in UK healthcare system. So pardon me for being disappointed for receiving sub-optimal service and others are devising ways to jump up the queue. If it happened in a Nigerian general hospital, I won’t be shocked. I’ve been to UCH, Ibadan and know how crap it is. But it’s the almighty UK NHS we are talking about here. So I get it, different personal experiences, but I was shocked it could be that bad for me. Now more people know, and are better prepared. Hopefully things change for the better. Good luck all🙏🏾

The evidence would be divulging private patient records, which I unfortunately cannot do. 🫠

missjekyll:


Is it possible to evidence this? There is a wait list but that is too long .

I can’t even lie that the things I’ve seen, almost made me understand why their citizens clamour for a peg to immigration. It’s really frustrating and I hate to say that I understand why most are anti-immigration even though most times their anti-immigrant views stem from misinformation.

dupyshoo:
It is well. I hope something is done about it soon.

I can bash the NHS even if it’s not much better elsewhere. Two things can hold true at the same time. That things are worse in other places doesn’t mean I should spray confetti at something that’s obviously dilapidated to a considerable extent.

And true, we definitely don’t have to agree.

Zahra29:


Dupyshoo, Goodenoch and others have also shared data and personal stories of the dire state of healthcare/healthcare system in the US and Nigeria. Ticha has also previously provided insights on Canada and NZ to provide a balanced view.

Point is you don't have to bash the NHS like it's much better or perfect elsewhere. You're entitled to your opinion obviously, but we don't have to agree.

Thewritingnerd:
I can bash the NHS even if it’s not much better elsewhere. Two things can hold true at the same time. That things are worse in other places doesn’t mean I should spray confetti at something that’s obviously dilapidated to a considerable extent.

And true, we definitely don’t have to agree.

Lol, no one asked you to spray confetti. I and others have pointed out flaws in the NHS and are advocating and voting for improvements.

However we can point out the flaws and also be honest to see the numerous good points about the NHS, something you appear unable to do. Your view isn't balanced, it's just negative.

I don’t owe anybody a balanced viewpoint because I’m not on a panel or a conference trying to present shiny talk-points for people to clink glasses over. I am saying what currently holds, day-in, day-out.

We have you and others to present the balanced view, and there’s me for the “negatives” like you put it.

What’s more “balanced” than that? 🤷🏾‍♀️

Zahra29:


Lol, no one asked you to spray confetti. I and others have pointed out flaws in the NHS and are advocating and voting for improvements.

However we can point out the flaws and also be honest to see the numerous good points about the NHS, something you appear unable to do. Your view isn't balanced, it's just negative.

Thewritingnerd:
I don’t owe anybody a balanced viewpoint because I’m not on a panel or a conference trying to present shiny talk-points for people to clink glasses over. I am saying what currently holds, day-in, day-out.

We have you and others to present the balanced view, and there’s me for the “negatives” like you put it.

What’s more “balanced” than that? 🤷🏾‍♀️

Well said Negative Nancy, carry on - you're doing a great job 👍

Thank you, Positive Prisca 🥹🫶🏾

Zahra29:


Well said Negative Nancy, carry on - you're doing a great job 👍

Hehehe, where are you both getting these names from?

Thewritingnerd:
Thank you, Positive Prisca 🥹🫶🏾

dupyshoo:
Hehehe, where are you both getting these names from?

Ha ha 😂

Negative Nancy is a known term used to describe someone who is always complaining and basically very negative. Verified by Google.

Have never heard of Positive Prisca.
Maybe Nancy came about it the same way she obtained her NHS views

Okay, I need to stop before I become Petty Patricia 🙈😂

What’s going on here 😂😂😂

Thewritingnerd:
Thank you, Positive Prisca 🥹🫶🏾

Zahra29:


Well said Negative Nancy, carry on - you're doing a great job 👍

Exactly that. First-hand, day-to-day encounters with actual people currently living the sad consequences. Not “balanced” talk-points meant to serve comfortable parlor talk. 👍🏾

Google didn’t tell you it’s *I have ? 🤭

Zahra29:


Ha ha 😂

Negative Nancy is a known term used to describe someone who is always complaining and basically very negative. Verified by Google.

Have never heard of Positive Prisca before. Maybe Nancy came about it the same way she obtained her NHS views

Okay, I need to stop before I become Petty Patricia 🙈😂

🤭 If you askkk meeee 🎶

kwakudtraveller:
What’s going on here 😂😂😂

Thewritingnerd:
Exactly that. First-hand, day-to-day encounters with actual people currently living the sad consequences. Not “balanced” talk-points meant to serve comfortable parlor talk. 👍🏾

Google didn’t tell you it’s *I have ? 🤭

It's okay Nancy, let's draw a line under this. I don't want to keep you from the negative agenda that I'm sure you've got lined up this evening.

Did you see an overflowing bin on your way to work today and you're so disgusted that the UK is filthy and is now worse than 3rd world?

Anyways, have a good evening whatever you're complaining about☺️

Are you telling me what you just drove past? 🤭

You’re very welcome to discuss that.

At least, I won’t come poking at your throat for “positivity” when you express displeasure at the unsanitary environment you see every time you drive home from work, because:

1.) UK is not a ‘family-member’ where I’ll unnecessarily start getting in my feelings every time people narrate the occasional unpleasantness of living in it.

2.) I know not to invalidate the saliency of your day-to-day bin encounter, just because I want you to acknowledge the positives even when you’ll still see that overflowing bin on your drive to work tomorrow.
🫶🏾

Zahra29:


It's okay Nancy, let's draw a line under this. I don't want to keep you from the negative agenda that I'm sure you've got lined up this evening.

Did you see an overflowing bin on your way to work today and you're so disgusted that the UK is filthy and is now worse than 3rd world?

Anyways, have a good evening whatever you're complaining about.

Thewritingnerd:
Are you telling me what you just drove past? 🤭

You’re very welcome to discuss that.

At least, I won’t come poking at your throat for “positivity” when you express displeasure at the unsanitary environment you see every time you drive home from work, because:
1.) UK is not a ‘family-member’ where I’ll unnecessarily start getting in my feelings every time people narrate the occasional unpleasantness of living in it.

2.) I know not to invalidate the saliency of your day-to-day bin encounter, just because I want you to acknowledge the positives even when you’ll still see that overflowing bin on your drive to work tomorrow.
🫶🏾

No thank you Nancy, I've had enough negativity for one day.

Have a good evening ☺️

Whatever you decide, Prisca. 🥹

And you too 🫶🏾

Zahra29:


No thank you Nancy, I've had enough negativity for one day.

Have a good evening ☺️

Zahra29:


No thank you Nancy, I've had enough negativity for one day.

Have a good evening ☺️

Just before you go Madam Prisca,

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/graduate-route-rapid-review/letter-to-the-home-secretary-on-the-rapid-review-of-the-graduate-route-accessible

If reverse was to be the case you would have posted this here cuz you’re always coming here to share anti immigrant news and links on this thread. I see that makes you happy a lot.

As seen in the Evening Standard

9japikin001:


Just before you go Madam Prisca,

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/graduate-route-rapid-review/letter-to-the-home-secretary-on-the-rapid-review-of-the-graduate-route-accessible

If reverse was to be the case you would have posted this here cuz you’re always coming here to share anti immigrant news and links on this thread. I see that makes you happy a lot.

I cannot speak for Zahrah29 because I’m sure they have more than enough response for his your very sour bunkum.

In my opinion, the only exposition the letter made was the admission (in public) that the UK depends on ££ from foreign students to subsidise British students.
As to the bitca out ‘no evidence of widespread abuse of the graduate visa by the students themselves’, I honestly don’t think it is new information.

What was being abused (and the Govt rightly addressed that) was the Tier-4 visa itself, NOT the PSW (aka graduate visa). There was a huge widespread abuse of the Tier-4 and the government already addressed that.

Again, in my opinion, the authors of the letter (MAC) somehow decided to mix up PSW & Tier-4 visas, as though they were the same thing.


PS: What I have written here will not make sense to someone who doesn’t understand the clear difference between Tier-4 visa vs Graduate (aka PSW) visa.

9japikin001:


Just before you go Madam Prisca,

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/graduate-route-rapid-review/letter-to-the-home-secretary-on-the-rapid-review-of-the-graduate-route-accessible

If reverse was to be the case you would have posted this here cuz you’re always coming here to share anti immigrant news and links on this thread. I see that makes you happy a lot.

Lol, it's "Positive Prisca" to you mate, no need to add Nigerianised titles.

As to the bolded, "you know nothing Jon Snow" 😌

ReesheesuKnack:


I cannot speak for Zahrah29 because I’m sure they have more than enough response for his your very sour bunkum.

In my opinion, the only exposition the letter made was the admission (in public) that the UK depends on ££ from foreign students to subsidise British students.
As to the bitca out ‘no evidence of widespread abuse of the graduate visa by the students themselves’, I honestly don’t think it is new information.

What was being abused (and the Govt rightly addressed that) was the Tier-4 visa itself, NOT the PSW (aka graduate visa). There was a huge widespread abuse of the Tier-4 and the government already addressed that.

Again, in my opinion, the authors of the letter (MAC) somehow decided to mix up PSW & Tier-4 visas, as though they were the same thing.


PS: What I have written here will not make sense to someone who doesn’t understand the clear difference between Tier-4 visa vs Graduate (aka PSW) visa.

Well said.

There was a high likelihood of the PSW route being retained for various reasons (although the govt might still seek to amend it in some way). It was the high number of dependants and the abuse of the student visa route that were highlighted as the main issues.

ReesheesuKnack:


I cannot speak for Zahrah29 because I’m sure they have more than enough response for his your very sour bunkum.

In my opinion, the only exposition the letter made was the admission (in public) that the UK depends on ££ from foreign students to subsidise British students.
As to the bitca out ‘no evidence of widespread abuse of the graduate visa by the students themselves’, I honestly don’t think it is new information.

What was being abused (and the Govt rightly addressed that) was the Tier-4 visa itself, NOT the PSW (aka graduate visa). There was a huge widespread abuse of the Tier-4 and the government already addressed that.

Again, in my opinion, the authors of the letter (MAC) somehow decided to mix up PSW & Tier-4 visas, as though they were the same thing.


PS: What I have written here will not make sense to someone who doesn’t understand the clear difference between Tier-4 visa vs Graduate (aka PSW) visa.

Trash!

Zahra29:


Lol, it's "Positive Prisca" to you mate, no need to add Nigerianised titles.

As to the bolded, "you know nothing Jon Snow" 😌

Carry your “L” with joy.

9japikin001:
Carry your “L” with joy.

Such stimulating and eloquent (and mature!) discourse....are you sure you're old enough to be on Nairaland? 😂

ReesheesuKnack:


I cannot speak for Zahrah29 because I’m sure they have more than enough response for his your very sour bunkum.

In my opinion, the only exposition the letter made was the admission (in public) that the UK depends on ££ from foreign students to subsidise British students.
As to the bitca out ‘no evidence of widespread abuse of the graduate visa by the students themselves’, I honestly don’t think it is new information.

What was being abused (and the Govt rightly addressed that) was the Tier-4 visa itself, NOT the PSW (aka graduate visa). There was a huge widespread abuse of the Tier-4 and the government already addressed that.

Again, in my opinion, the authors of the letter (MAC) somehow decided to mix up PSW & Tier-4 visas, as though they were the same thing.


PS: What I have written here will not make sense to someone who doesn’t understand the clear difference between Tier-4 visa vs Graduate (aka PSW) visa.

Guy the PSW cannot exist without the Tier-4. It’s as an effect of the Tier 4 so it’s pretty much attached to it. It’s more or less a temporary incentive hence the need to speak on not scrapping it because the Tier 4 visa adds financial value to UK universities. If it is scrapped, it reduces the influx of international students, simple.

There’s no mix up, the article is as clear as night and day and a really positive one at that.

Zahra29:


Such stimulating and eloquent (and mature!) discourse....are you sure you're old enough to be on Nairaland? 😂

Well, if immaturity had a face, it would be making posts like this. But hey, keep reaching for the stars, even if you're grasping at straws.

This ChatGPT-4o is insane. I can’t even begin to imagine what AI will do in a few years from now.

https://twitter.com/mckaywrigley/status/1790088880919818332

9japikin001:
Well, if immaturity had a face, it would be making posts like this. But hey, keep reaching for the stars, even if you're grasping at straws.

This is much better English, well done!!!

Keep reading your Brighter Grammar

How is mortgage excess paid?

Is it to increase the monthly DD or login to your account and make one off payments?

kwakudtraveller:

Guy the PSW cannot exist without the Tier-4. It’s as an effect of the Tier 4 so it’s pretty much attached to it. It’s more or less a temporary incentive hence the need to speak on not scrapping it because the Tier 4 visa adds financial value to UK universities. If it is scrapped, it reduces the influx of international students, simple.

There’s no mix up, the article is as clear as night and day and a really positive one at that.

Guy, PSW was NEVER massively abused.
What was massively abused WAS the Tier-4 Student Visa. Where folks pay £2,000 deposit. Use fictitious PoF, get into the UK, then abandon their studies. Use the ‘balance’ of the school fees to BUY Health & Care (Carer route) visas.

And the Government plugged that hole.
There was never ever a time that the PSW was massively abused. NEVER.

Whereas your argument holds true that the PSW comes after the Tier-4, they are NOT the same.
The Tier-4, not the PSW visas is the one that funds and subsidises the University fees for UK students.

The two visa are totally different. That letter by the MAC mixed them up… I’m sure on purpose.