kokoA:
Who really owns agbada sef? Seems every tribe within the entire West Africa sees agbada as traditional attire.

agbada was owned by Berber/Tuareg.

Both look great, but my main gripe is that the okpu ozo is for people with the Ozo title.

Perhaps politicians should were the Okpu isi oji instead, it looks just as official

GODPUNISHALABI:
again agbada baban Riga bou bou or whatever did not originate from yorubas its an Islamic dressing which originated from the west African sahel region

You need to give the specific originator if you are disputing its origin with Yoruba.

Who specifically originated Agbada? It is not enough to just say sahel region. You need to find its originator.

Let me coach you on a few things here to begin with.

Sahel is related from Sahil, Arabic word for regions below Maghreb (Morrocco) and Masra (Egypt). This will indicate from around Mauritania stretching across to Sudan. So sahel is not some strange word that can be used to razzmatazz knowledgeable folks like myself.

What is interesting to know is that the two key words contained in your post - sahel/sahil (coast) and agbada both have cognates in Yoruba language.

Isale in Yoruba can denote valley a location below

Agbada in Yoruba is cognate of Abaya in Arabic. Infact, you can see the connection if you retrieve picture of Abaya on internet.

So untill you can find the specific ethnic that originated Agbada, I maintain Yoruba is its originator.

The Yoruba terms Isale (as in Sahel) and Agbada (as in Abaya) creeped into other languages of Arabian desert and their own styling copied the Yoruba.

ImperialYoruba:


You need to give the specific originator if you are disputing its origin with Yoruba.

Who specifically originated Agbada? It is not enough to just say sahel region. You need to find its originator.

Let me coach you on a few things here to begin with.

Sahel is related from Sahil, Arabic word for regions below Maghreb (Morrocco) and Masra (Egypt). This will indicate from around Mauritania stretching across to Sudan. So sahel is not some strange word that can be used to razzmatazz knowledgeable folks like myself.

What is interesting to know is that the two key words contained in your post - sahel/sahil (coast) and agbada both have cognates in Yoruba language.

Isale in Yoruba can denote valley a location below

Agbada in Yoruba is cognate of Abaya in Arabic. Infact, you can see the connection if you retrieve picture of Abaya on internet.

So untill you can find the specific ethnic that originated Agbada, I maintain Yoruba is its originator.

The Yoruba terms Isale (as in Sahel) and Agbada (as in Abaya) creeped into other languages of Arabian desert and their own styling copied the Yoruba.

You just came here and attempted to do your own razzmatazz.


Why is the cognate of agbada, abaya?

Are yorubas desert dwellers? Have they been Muslims since the beginning of time?

You're just proving the point I made.

It came from foreign Muslims. The same people that brought the religion to yorubas, brought the attire with them.


The same thing with the boubou dress.

This agbada origin matter again?


Okay Yorubas have made a version of it their traditional wear for a very very long while and northerners wear another version of it shikena



Most of the agbada being sewn nowadays sef no carry weight again, agbada plus buba and sokoto used to be 10 full yards

1Sharon:


You just came here and attempted to do your own razzmatazz.


Why is the cognate of agbada, abaya?

Are yorubas desert dwellers? Have they been Muslims since the beginning of time?

You're just proving the point I made.

It came from foreign Muslims. The same people that brought the religion to yorubas, brought the attire with them.


The same thing with the boubou dress.

There is nothing muslim with Agbada or Abaya. This is your own false understanding.

Before Islam, the ancient dwellers of Yoruba Ife wore Agbada. Islam originated in Mecca, before Islam Mecca was occupied by orisha worshippers, they wore Agbada.

Christians in Mali, Mauritania, Egypt, Morocco,all wear Agbada or BouBou that they call it, and likewise Christians of Sahel wear Babanriga or whatever name that they call it.

In a nutshell, you are attributing Agbada to Islam. This is wrong. I am telling you Agbada existed before Islam, and its origin is Yoruba.

ImperialYoruba:


There is nothing muslim with Agbada or Abaya. This is your own false understanding.

Before Islam, the ancient dwellers of Yoruba Ife wore Agbada. Islam originated in Mecca, before Islam Mecca was occupied by orisha worshippers, they wore Agbada.

Christians in Mali, Mauritania, Egypt, Morocco,all wear Agbada or BouBou that they call it, and likewise Christians of Sahel wear Babanriga or whatever name that they call it.

In a nutshell, you are attributing Agbada to Islam. This is wrong. I am telling you Agbada existed before Islam, and its origin is Yoruba.

Source please? Because most sources prove the opposite


Pre-islam Arabs wore Agbada or what they call Kaftan, because MENA is a deserted and arid climate. They needed to dress that way to protect themselves from the harsh sun and sand. Climate created your culture and influences religion.

1Sharon:


Source please? Because most sources prove the opposite


Pre-islam Arabs wore Agbada or what they call Kaftan, because MENA is a deserted and arid climate. They needed to dress that way to protect themselves from the harsh sun and sand. Climate created your culture and influences religion.

Go in the Quran for source about the tribes of Mecca before Islam.

Go to IMDB and retrieve film records including documentaries on the culture and dress habits of Arabia.

1Sharon:


Source please? Because most sources prove the opposite


Pre-islam Arabs wore Agbada or what they call Kaftan, because MENA is a deserted and arid climate. They needed to dress that way to protect themselves from the harsh sun and sand. Climate created your culture and influences religion.

My dear kaftan originated from Indians. It was never an Arabian dress.

Una no know who I be ni, abi Obi don take Hero beer scatter una recollection.

This is Imperial Yoruba! The one and only Emperor in Nairaland!

We fit argue till next year on this issue, one by one i go dey open ya eye to see how Agbada take originate from Yoruba.

ImperialYoruba:


Go in the Quran for source about the tribes of Mecca before Islam.

Go to IMDB and retrieve film records including documentaries on the culture and dress habits of Arabia.

Sources for yorubas wearing agbada prior to Islam, not Arabs.

1Sharon:


You just came here and attempted to do your own razzmatazz.


Why is the cognate of agbada, abaya?

Are yorubas desert dwellers? Have they been Muslims since the beginning of time?

You're just proving the point I made.

It came from foreign Muslims. The same people that brought the religion to yorubas, brought the attire with them.


The same thing with the boubou dress.

What about Iro ati Buba? Muslims brought that too?

ImperialYoruba:


My dear kaftan originated from Indians. It was never an Arabian dress.

Una no know who I be ni, abi Obi don take Hero beer scatter una recollection.

This is Imperial Yoruba! The one and only Emperor in Nairaland!

We fit argue till next year on this issue, one by one i go dey open ya eye to see how Agbada take originate from Yoruba.

Oh really so how come the name is middle eastern(persian) in origin?

I don't care who you are.

NoToPile:
This agbada origin matter again?


Okay Yorubas have made a version of it their traditional wear for a very very long while and northerners wear another version of it shikena



Most of the agbada being sewn nowadays sef no carry weight again, agbada plus buba and sokoto used to be 10 full yards

Na Yoruba originate Agbada.

Look, the Arewa symbol that Northern people put on everything, na Yoruba own am.

It is taboo in Islam to identify with image, or so Notherners thought. Right about 1957 when colonial government was looking for a symbol that each region will use for self identification, Hausa North turned down every symbol proposed and claimed it was not in line with Islam. So in frustration, colonial govt began using the Solomon Knot (which is an ancient totem and a heirloom of Yoruba royalty) for any document and state symbol for North. Thats how it became an official symbol for them. Luckily we have pictures of Yoruba Obas that predated 1957 and you can see the weave on their Agbada. However, no picture or representation of the symbol anywhere in North prior to its 1957 adoption. The specific lineage of this totem is Oranmiyan. He bequeathed it to Oyo. From Oyo it gained wide usage in Yoruba.

Dont play with Yoruba when it comes to archived history and culture. We are originators.

I will even go further and say there is a very expensive clothing worn by Ibo women and is called George. Its origin is Yoruba and it was a weave pattern. In modern times that pattern would be patented. The specific Yoruba group that owned and made the weave was Ijebu.

Now, how did it get to Ibo?

Itsekiri traded it with portuguese merchants. From them it got to Calabar. Feom Calabar to Iboland.

I will teach Ibo history of its ancestral journey from nude to semi nude to this modern time copying Yoruba dress style and urbanism.

Guestlander:


What about Iro ati Buba? Muslims brought that too?

Is this discussion about iro & buba?

1Sharon:


Is this discussion about iro & buba?

Just answer the damn question if you can or you can ignore it and continuue to pretend it is not relevant to what is being discussed.

1Sharon:



Sources for yorubas wearing agbada prior to Islam, not Arabs.

Its like asking for sources of the first military to fight war on horseback. Where will you find that? Any race that says they were first to fight on horseback cannot prove it beyond paper article. Paper article also claimed Columbus found America, which native Americans dispute.

So how do you use source to make a proof without swallowing bias?

Get away from source. I gave you enough info that correlated in support.

Bring me origin of Agbada if it is not Yoruba. Which ethnic group originated it?

Guestlander:


What about Iro ati Buba? Muslims brought that too?

Buba is the Boubou he kept repeating falsely and calling it Agbada. You see now.

They have no clue.

ImperialYoruba:


Its like asking for sources of the first military to fight war on horseback. Where will you find that? Any race that says they were first to fight on horseback cannot prove it beyond paper article. Paper article also claimed Columbus found America, which native Americans dispute.

So how do you use source to make a proof without swallowing bias?

Get away from source. I gave you enough info that correlated in support.

Bring me origin of Agbada if it is not Yoruba. Which ethnic group originated it?

Lol. In other words, you're just talking based on your feelings.

Guestlander:


Just answer the damn question if you can or you can ignore it and continuue to pretend it is not relevant to what is being discussed.

How is iro & buba relevant to this discussion?

If you have any points to add, do that instead of asking rhetorical questions because you have nothing to add.

1Sharon:


Is this discussion about iro & buba?

It is not actually. It's about which attire fitted better, or authentic, for an Ibo person, Agbada or Isiagu?

The origin of Agbada veered into Yoruba, quite naturally. It can extend, appropriately so, into discussion on Iro and Buba since some persons also brought up talks about Boubou...which infact is nothing but Buba.

Maazieze:
Both look great, but my main gripe is that the okpu ozo is for people with the Ozo title.

Perhaps politicians should were the Okpu isi oji instead, it looks just as official

that's an old culture. Culture moves on. The okpu is an Igbo okpu pioneered by ozo title holders...nothing more

1Sharon:


Lol. In other words, you're just talking based on your feelings.

How can discussion on the origin of Agbada be dismissed as a expression of feeling. You do not take yourself serious if you do that. So turn it around and pepper it with academic inputs. Who originated Agbada, give specifics, name ethnicity, not some ambiguous sahel region.

ImperialYoruba:


It is not actually. It's about which attire fitted better, or authentic, for an Ibo person, Agbada or Isiagu?

The origin of Agbada veered into Yoruba, quite naturally. It can extend, appropriately so, into discussion on Iro and Buba since some persons also brought up talks about Boubou...which infact is nothing but Buba.

Is Buba worn all over west Africa? Or quintessentially yoruba?

1Sharon:


How is iro & buba relevant to this discussion?

If you have any points to add, do that instead of asking rhetorical questions because you have nothing to add.

More like you have no answer to the question being asked.
Once again, since agbada and Iro and buba were traditionally worn by Yorubas and you have told us agbada was inspired by some Muslims. Then, who inspired Iro and buba? Yoruba men and women obviously did not evolve from different continents.
If you cannot answer the question please ignore it.

Guestlander:


More like you have no answer to the question being asked.
Once again, since agbada and Iro and buba were traditionally worn by Yorubas and you have told us agbada was inspired by some Muslims. Then, who inspired Iro and buba? Yoruba men and women obviously did not evolve from different continents.
If you cannot answer the question please ignore it.

Historical trends have shown that information and culture in West Africa usually spreads from the far west sahelian countries (Mali/ Senegal) This happened with Jellof Rice & Islam,

And do yorubas really think this didn't happen with Agbada?

In regards to your question on iro & buba. Have a look at this:

https://fashionhistory.fitnyc.edu/boubou/#:~:text=%E2%80%9CIt%20has%20been%20suggested%20that,until%20the%20late%20nineteenth%20century.

ImperialYoruba:


Na Yoruba originate Agbada.

Look, the Arewa symbol that Northern people put on everything, na Yoruba own am.

It is taboo in Islam to identify with image, or so Notherners thought. Right about 1957 when colonial government was looking for a symbol that each region will use for self identification, Hausa North turned down every symbol proposed and claimed it was not in line with Islam. So in frustration, colonial govt began using the Solomon Knot (which is an ancient totem and a heirloom of Yoruba royalty) for any document and state symbol for North. Thats how it became an official symbol for them. Luckily we have pictures of Yoruba Obas that predated 1957 and you can see the weave on their Agbada. However, no picture or representation of the symbol anywhere in North prior to its 1957 adoption. The specific lineage of this totem is Oranmiyan. He bequeathed it to Oyo. From Oyo it gained wide usage in Yoruba.

Dont play with Yoruba when it comes to archived history and culture. We are originators.

I will even go further and say there is a very expensive clothing worn by Ibo women and is called George. Its origin is Yoruba and it was a weave pattern. In modern times that pattern would be patented. The specific Yoruba group that owned and made the weave was Ijebu.

Now, how did it get to Ibo?

Itsekiri traded it with portuguese merchants. From them it got to Calabar. Feom Calabar to Iboland.

I will teach Ibo history of its ancestral journey from nude to semi nude to this modern time copying Yoruba dress style and urbanism.

At bold: I believe you’re alluding to Ijebu’s “Aso Olona”. Ijebus traded those clothes to Nembe Ijaws and I think Igbos got it from them and co-opted it as their traditional cloth.

And you’re right - agbada most likely has Yoruba origin. Danshiki as well.

1Sharon:

Historical trends have shown that information and culture in West Africa usually spreads from the far west sahelian countries (Mali/ Senegal) This happened with Jellof Rice & Islam,

And do yorubas really think this didn't happen with Agbada?

In regards to your question on iro & buba. Have a look at this:

https://fashionhistory.fitnyc.edu/boubou/#:~:text=%E2%80%9CIt%20has%20been%20suggested%20that,until%20the%20late%20nineteenth%20century.

You can’t compare jollof rice which most likely came to Nigeria via Ghanaian immigrants in the post-colonial era and style of dressing. Yorubas have been wearing clothes since time immemorial.

Islam also got to Yorubaland in the 15th century during Oyo empire, which was the 2nd empire Yorubas built, after Ife empire’s decline.

So, I doubt agbada got to Yorubaland via Islam.

Creeper:


You can’t compare jollof rice which most likely came to Nigeria via Ghanaian immigrants in the post-colonial era and style of dressing. Yorubas have been wearing clothes since time immemorial.

Islam also got to Yorubaland in the 15th century during Oyo empire, which was the 2nd empire Yorubas built, after Ife empire’s decline.

So, I doubt agbada got to Yorubaland via Islam.

Ghanaian immigrants? That's possible. But the dish is now Pan- West African. So who's responsible? Sahelians are the only group of people that move around the most.

What do you think of the link?

Creeper:


At bold: I believe you’re alluding to Ijebu’s “Aso Olona”. Ijebus traded those clothes to Nembe Ijaws and I think Igbos got it from them and co-opted it as their traditional cloth.

And you’re right - agbada most likely has Yoruba origin. Danshiki as well.

Dashiki doesn't mean anything in yoruba.

It comes from the hausa word Dan ciki

1Sharon:


Ghanaian immigrants? That's possible. But the dish is now Pan- West African. So who's responsible? Sahelians are the only group of people that move around the most.

What do you think of the link?

A lot of Ghanaians used to live in Nigeria before they were kicked out. And I believe Nigerians learnt Jollof rice from them, the same way Nigerians copied highlife music from them.

Ever heard about Ghana must go? Well, that’s Nigerians kicking Ghanaians out of their country.

Anyway, jollof rice originated from Senegambia region and must’ve later found its way to Liberia/Ghana via Mande speakers who are indigenous to Senegambia, Liberia, Ghana and a host of countries in West Africa. Then it got to Nigeria via Ghanaians.

The link isn’t accessible.

Creeper:


A lot of Ghanaians used to live in Nigeria before they were kicked out. And I believe Nigerians learnt Jollof rice from them, the same way Nigerians copied highlife music from them.

Ever heard about Ghana must go? Well, that’s Nigerians kicking Ghanaians out of their country.

Anyway, jollof rice originated from Senegambia region and must’ve later found its way to Liberia/Ghana via Mande speakers who are indigenous to Senegambia, Liberia, Ghana and a host of countries in West Africa. Then it got to Nigeria via Ghanaians.

The link isn’t accessible.

People are just getting defensive over this. It's just history. Agbada/boubou is NOW yoruba, but it's origins don't lie within yorubas.



https://fashionhistory.fitnyc.edu/boubou/#:~:text=%E2%80%9CIt%20has%20been%20suggested%20that,until%20the%20late%20nineteenth%20century

1Sharon:


Is Buba worn all over west Africa? Or quintessentially yoruba?

Yes, it is worn all over West Africa.