paxonel:

But you atheists have a great deal.
You will have to read all the hundreds of the existing holy books for you to be able to debunk the deity idea.

Theists have a greater deal, after reading all hundreds of existing holy books, they have to believe and worship all the gods and not just one dummy isrealite god called yahweh.
You have to worship allah too as a theist.

Maynman:

Theists have a greater deal, after reading all hundreds of existing holy books, they have to believe and worship all the gods and not just one dummy isrealite god called yahweh.
You have to worship allah too as a theist.

is that what they told you or you are just assuming? 😀

Maynman:

Theism is more related to all deities, not just only one.
Theist, How come you are worshipping one deity?

it is related to any of the deities being worshipped.

That means a Christian is theist worshipping his own God or Deity
a Muslim is another theist worshipping his own deity
a Buddhist is a theist having his own deity
an hinduist is a thieist having his own deity
a Babalawoist is a theist having his own deity
etc

all these theists worshipped their different gods or deities each. So i don't have any priority reading all their holy books but to focus on the one that is concerned with me.

But you atheists, you can't just focus on one theism since it is your priority to debunk the deity idea.
You will have to go through all their books for you to even stand a chance, otherwise you will break the ldentity logical law of thoughts when presenting your arguments .
An a reasonable person listening to your argument will say, what is this one talking?

paxonel:
what is more hilarious is when you fail to understand that if theists are talking about God, they see him as a spirit and nothing more.
So if you say spirits don't exist because you don't see them, that doesn't mean that spirits are not real in their minds.so long their minds exist.

Remember, it is their minds we are talking about here, not your own mind. I see no reason why you are killing yourself over the thoughts of another person's mind as if you are sharing his mind with him, why not face yours?

The word spirit can also be defined in dictionary as a vital principle(not necessarily a body form) that supports life functions and events such aa karma.

For the fact that one has experience the statement YOU REAP WHAT YOU SOW that it is real, is enough reason to have it in his mind that there is spirit being behind this principles. Then there are books in support of their thoughts from other people who experience the same thing, so you don't blame people for thinking what they think by countering their thoughts through being an atheists, you will only end up loosing woefully.

I used to ask some atheists, since they started countering theists on NL, how many theists have they succeeded in converting into atheism?
You will see that there is no such thing.

If truly anyone will be converted from one idea to another, he will not need to be countered or bashed. He will convert on his own having seeing reasons by himself

the Christian God does not exist. I'm very certain about that

The irony of you believing the "big bang" happened (when you have no reasonable proof), and then mocking those that believe a God created the universe just can't cease to amuse me.

Workch:
the Christian God does not exist. I'm very certain about that

can you explain your better?

paxonel:
can you explain your better?

we have more than 4000 god claims, the Christian God is one of it. Looking at the description given by the Bible of this God, we can treat that he doesn't exist.
Also, when we subject many of the claims of the supernatural intervention that was claimed by Christians that he did in Bible, they usually prove negative.

paxonel:
is that what they told you or you are just assuming? 😀

That is what the greek word says, what were you told?

paxonel:
it

You have to read hundreds of books and apply it to see if others are also not applicable.

Listen to your advice na, is it not more reasonable to remain neutral To all deities?
You haven’t read all books but you think the one you have read is the correct one and most applicable?

paxonel:
it is related to any of the deities being worshipped.

That means a Christian is theist worshipping his own God or Deity
a Muslim is another theist worshipping his own deity
a Buddhist is a theist having his own deity
an hinduist is a thieist having his own deity
a Babalawoist is a theist having his own deity
etc

Illiteracy, worshipping a god or gods makes you a theist.
For you to conclude that the israelite god yahweh is powerful you have to worship other gods, are you not a theist?

Workch:
we have more than 4000 god claims, the Christian God is one of it. Looking at the description given by the Bible of this God, we can treat that he doesn't exist.
Also, when we subject many of the claims of the supernatural intervention that was claimed by Christians that he did in Bible, they usually prove negative.

Where did this god claimed he wrote the bible?

Before Christianity was created, weren’t they worshipping this god?
How come you are judging this god because of what you read in a christian book?

And debunking a claim doesn’t mean the whole thing is wrong, they also debunked albert einstein claims.

SamboAnguissa:
The irony of you believing the "big bang" happened (when you have no reasonable proof), and then mocking those that believe a God created the universe just can't cease to amuse me.

The irony of thinking one can “believe” in big bang, even the bit bang concept was created by a catholic priest that also “believel” his own god called yahweh created the universe.

paxonel:
Terrible arguments put foward by atheists against the existence of God lies in breaking the logical law of identity which states that if you do not know the identity of a thing you can't say anything categorically about it.

This statement doesn't follow.. at all.

Theists argue that God exist because they have read their holy books which helps them affirm that.

By this logic i can say that Harry Potter exists because i have read the books. Reading about something is not evidence for its existence.

Atheists on the orher hand have refused to read the same holy books how will they possibly know what theists know?
Yet they categorically argue that God do not exist thereby breaking the simple logical law of identity. Hence, their arguments are always terribly bad.

A lot of atheists and agnostics are former theists.. people who actually read the alleged holy books for a fair portion of their life

If a science book teaches me that matter is anything that has mass, i will have to read the same science book first, in order to aquire the prerequisite knowledge to counter the argument, or i can't say anything categorically about whether matter has mass or not.
But atheists arguments aren't so.
Yet they come out boldly to say what they don't know thereby not being sincere to themselves.

1. Most atheists are former theists. I've already addressed that.

2. Your logic is also off here. If someone or some book said matter was anything that had mass, it would be up to the maker of the statement to prove it. You are then free to scrutinize the "proof" presented to you. This is exactly what we're doing in regard to god.

You believe a god exists, and have given insufficient/ logically faulty proof, which we've simply pointed out.

As for agnostics who claim to steak to the law of logical thought, you will soon notice that they usually deviates from their point of view at the end of their argument and ended up with the same fallacious conclusion with atheists that there is no God, and you begin to wonder, are they spirits too like atheists?

Once again. Atheists don't say God does not exist. While some atheists say that, that's not the default position in atheism. Atheism is simply the lack of belief in a god.. not a statement that it does not exist.. please understand the difference

Maynman:

The irony of thinking one can “believe” in big bang, even the bit bang concept was created by a catholic priest that also “believel” his own god called yahweh created the universe.

Oh! You don't believe in the big bang. You just accepted it. Lovely difference that makes. Lolz.

SamboAnguissa:


Oh! You don't believe in the big bang. You just accepted it. Lovely difference that makes. Lolz.

You think you made sense ? 😂😂

Wilgrea7:


This statement doesn't follow.. at all.

you mean the logical law of identity does not follow what are you sayin?

By this logic i can say that Harry Potter exists because i have read the books.

you will also say Socrates and Aristotle did not exist and they were fictional

Reading about something is not evidence for its existence.

true,
But not in this case.

In this case, we have seen the evidence in what was written, that the evidence points to today's reality.

A lot of atheists and agnostics are former theists.. people who actually read the alleged holy books for a fair portion of their life

unfortunately for them, they didn't see the evidence while reading, but it was staring at them.
Now whose fault is that?

will they now channel their inability to read and understand to disturb those who have read and understood?
We have billions of theists worldwide which translates that they have largely understood the contents of their holy books that's why they will remain theists

1. Most atheists are former theists. I've already addressed that.

they were confused at some point.

Even on NL, every atheists who claimed to practice my religion always failed the exam each time i question them about my holy book.
This is poof that they never understood anything in the theism before they left

2. Your logic is also off here. If someone or some book said matter was anything that had mass, it would be up to the maker of the statement to prove it. You are then free to scrutinize the "proof" presented to you. This is exactly what we're doing in regard to god.

no!

what you people usually do is, each time theists mentioned that the evidence is right inside their holy book, you reject using the holy book as the evidence, yet you are always demanding for the evidence.

The evidence isn't a pick and take that one can just give it to you like that. It is a lengthy but logical explanation that requires your sincere interest to read.
A previous knowledge of other parts of the book will make it easier to understand.
But if you don't have any knowledge at all, i doubt if you will understand

You believe a god exists, and have given insufficient/ logically faulty proof, which we've simply pointed out.

the truth is!
If you really want a sufficient and logical proof, then you will proof to be teachable or you don't demand any proof at all

Once again. Atheists don't say God does not exist. While some atheists say that, that's not the default position in atheism. Atheism is simply the lack of belief in a god

lack of belief or not believing, it's still the same thing.
It's like you are saying i lack money, because of that i can't purchase, and someone has money and he doesn't want to purchase.
The bottom-line is, the both did not aquire

.. not a statement that it does not exist.. please understand the difference

atheists don't need to make the statement, we already know

Workch:
Looking at the description given by the Bible of this God, we can treat that he doesn't exist.

can you point out the exact description in the bible?

Also, when we subject many of the claims of the supernatural intervention that was claimed by Christians that he did in Bible, they usually prove negative.

you will do well to also point out one supernatural claim and the method you use to subject the said claim let's see

Wilgrea7:
I'll leave it at that for now on this subject.

PLEASE NOTE: I am not saying a god does not or cannot exist. As an agnostic, I'm more than open to the idea in the presence of sufficient proof.

However, the arguments often put forward, like the ones stated above, do nothing to support the existence of a god, as they could be used to justify other things in place of this "god"

I hope theists who use these sort of arguments can learn from them. I'll also be making reference to this thread whenever arguments like these are used in the future.

MaxInDHouse, Aemmyjah, TenQ, and other people I've forgotten to mention, please take note of these. Criticisms and opinions are of course always welcome.

The arguments put forth by Christians is based on as far as we can all see that is proven by our environment and nature.

To go beyond that is a trip beyond our real world and living which is even why this issue is important in the first place.

If it was just for the purpose of flexing your ability and power to think, (philosophy) then i can authoritatively say that many would not be interested.

But because this has to do with our good or bad living, therefore it must be confined to things which directly affect our living. And that is the Christians mind.

Wilgrea7:

By this logic i can say that Harry Potter exists because i have read the books.

Harry potter is not even up for because without a doubt, the whole world automatically knew it was not real.

But every generation rises up to meet the bible and believing it until you devils come along to lie and slander it hence this rubbish argument.

paxonel:
can you point out the exact description in the bible?
you will do well to also point out one supernatural claim and the method you use to subject the said claim let's see

If you claim that your God can heal people.
I will provide 1000 amputees, if you cannot heal one then its a lie.

Workch:
If you claim that your God can heal people.
I will provide 1000 amputees, if you cannot heal one then its a lie.

Awon agnostos

Theist sympathizer.

Workch:
If you claim that your God can heal people.

is this the description of God in the bible you were talking about ?

How did you arive the notion that God is in the business of healing people?

You see why i say atheists don't read bible?

I will provide 1000 amputees, if you cannot heal one then its a lie.

Me, heal ke?
As if i even have time for misplaced priorities

So, in your mind Christianity is about healing? D

After, some folks will keep saying atheists were once Christians they know bible.

See am now

paxonel:
is this the description of God in the bible you were talking about ?

How did you arive the notion that God is in the business of healing people?

You see why i say atheists don't read bible?

Me, heal ke?
As if i even have time for misplaced priorities

So, in your mind Christianity is about healing? D

After, some folks will keep saying atheists were once Christians they know bible.

See am now

Deranged workch is an agnostic not an atheist oo.

paxonel:
is this the description of God in the bible you were talking about ?

How did you arive the notion that God is in the business of healing people?

You see why i say atheists don't read bible?

Me, heal ke?
As if i even have time for misplaced priorities

So, in your mind Christianity is about healing? D

After, some folks will keep saying atheists were once Christians they know bible.

See am now

If your God cannot heal then he cannot be omnipotent. It's the description he was given by Christians.

It means than the miracles are fake hence all the miracles performed by your God in the Bible is fake. It goes a lot to dent the description of the God character.
It also means that this God is incapable of creating anything via miracles meaning genesis creation story is fake, Jesus virgin will also be fake. This makes the whole Christianirt fake if prove miracles to be false

Wilgrea7:
I'll leave it at that for now on this subject.

PLEASE NOTE: I am not saying a god does not or cannot exist. As an agnostic, I'm more than open to the idea in the presence of sufficient proof.

However, the arguments often put forward, like the ones stated above, do nothing to support the existence of a god, as they could be used to justify other things in place of this "god"

I hope theists who use these sort of arguments can learn from them. I'll also be making reference to this thread whenever arguments like these are used in the future.

MaxInDHouse, Aemmyjah, TenQ, and other people I've forgotten to mention, please take note of these. Criticisms and opinions are of course always welcome.

Since you have singlehandedly marvelously completely demolished to smithereens all our arguments,

Can you present your umbreakable, undeniable Scientific EVIDENCE that NOTHING like the Uncaused First-Cause of Everything (aka God) is a mere Figment of Human Imagination!

We are waiting!

Workch:
If your God cannot heal

if he doesn't want to heal. No one can force him to do what he doesn't want to do.

There is time for everything!
If we have read in the past that he healed, that was then and the miracles were for a purpose which has been achieved then, not now again.

[
then he cannot be omnipotent.

the fact that he chooses to do what he want to do and when to it and when to stop doing it without the influence of man makes him omnipotent.
You can't force him by your emotions

It's the description he was given by Christians.

and you are depending on what Christians are saying without reading for yourself ?
Are these same Christians not mere humans?
They will always deceive you now

It means than the miracles are fake hence all the miracles performed by your God in the Bible is fake.

you know how you sound?
Your father fended for at the time you were little. Now you're grown up and he decided that you should be on your own that you are capable. Then the next thing, you start calling him fake

It goes a lot to dent the description of the God character.

that isn't the description of God's character.
From the beginning God created man, he charged him to replenish the earth because man was capable.
Man will do anything without God because he was capable

It also means that this God is incapable of creating anything via miracles

keep telling yourself lies

meaning genesis creation story is fake,

Jesus virgin will also be fake. This makes the whole Christianirt fake if prove miracles to be false

see, no matter what you think about the stories it's of no significance.

You have been created that's all.
Whatever you choose to do with your life is at your disposal, not God.

Stop feeding yourself with lies or hope for miracles that will never come

paxonel:
if he doesn't want to heal. No one can force him to do what he doesn't want to do.

There is time for everything!
If we have read in the past that he healed, that was then and the miracles were for a purpose which has been achieved then, not now again.
the fact that he chooses to do what he want to do and when to it and when to stop doing it without the influence of man makes him omnipotent.
You can't force him by your emotions

if I offer your God 100000 amputees to heal and he can't then he's fraud. It's all lies.

Your excuses are too much for this God that never shows up

Workch:
if I offer your God 100000 amputees to heal and he can't then he's fraud. It's all lies.

Which altar will you offer it to the god?

Workch:
if I offer your God 100000 amputees to heal and he can't then he's fraud. It's all lies.

you have already said that before, nothing changed

Read my response again concerning that

Your excuses are too much for this God that never shows up

you have been dumbfounded. Simply give up

You don't have any excuse

paxonel:
you have already said that before, nothing changed

Read my response again concerning that
you have been dumbfounded. Simply give up

You don't have any excuse

Again, if I give your God 100000 amputees and he doesn't answer like he answered Elijah to atleast heal one, I will conclude that he doesn't exist. It's simple.

If he doesn't show up then he doesn't exist. 1 in 10,000 is enough to prove himself to the whole world

Workch:
Again, if I give your God 100000 amputees and he doesn't answer like he answered Elijah to atleast heal one, I will conclude that he doesn't exist. It's simple.

Are you anointed like the prophet elijah?
Or you think just any riff raff was summoning yahweh in the tanakh?

Workch:
Again, if I give your God 100000 amputees and he doesn't answer like he answered Elijah to atleast heal one, I will conclude that he doesn't exist. It's simple.

If he doesn't show up then he doesn't exist. 1 in 10,000 is enough to prove himself to the whole world

obviously, you have nothing else to say.

This is another terrible argument against God with a very quack conclusion