Damn!!!!! This is so so deep!!! And clearly explained.
I would assume you're passionate about philosophy of the world. I hope we can be mutuals..I would have a lot to learn from you. I'm following you asap

absoluteSuccess:


Let's see it this way, we have consciousness. As long as we are humans, we will never escape religion due to our consciousness, it's either you are for or against religion.

In religion, there's straight explanation for our consciousness: God made it and everything else. It would be very hard to create a new explanation and not sound insane.

"Do not create a new, weird theory when a simple, common sense answer already exists". that's Occam's razor. Now outside religion, you have stoicism, skepticism, Zoroastrianism, Sophisms, atheism and Darwinism.

Within religion, you have pantheism: (everything is divine), Polytheism: (many gods and a Chief God), Monotheism: (only one God). The people of Israel were unique to be the only known monotheistic covenanted people.

The hope of a typical man is survival: "guarantee this day, our daily bread". On national scale, Israel hoped to survive with the help of the God of her fathers. But it was destroyed many times by stronger powers who themselves equally got destroyed.

It boils down to survival but by strength none of the almighty nations of old survived either.

Christ came with a survival plan different from the survival plan known to the remnants of the Jews that's not been destroyed by the powerful countries that rises and falls. The Messiah should save the Jew from the fangs of Rome.

Unfortunately, he was not a big man and great soldier ready to conquer. In fact, the Maccabees were up to this. Jesus was for the ordinary man and ordinary people, the type that nobody cares much about compared to the glory of ruling an expansive empire.

For this, his teachings doesn't tally with the quest of the ages of the Jews who were crying for a revolutionary. His teachings became Christianity. His teachings gives hope to humanity if human survival means a thing. So he is the author of this concept of salvation.

There's no other teacher with his angle on this topic. So it's either you agree with him or just find something else to feed your consciousness outside the confines of religion where survival is temporal or replaced with something else.

Now let's say "heaven" is the payoff for following Christ, the truth is, you don't want to be a source of sorrow to others, you also want to be at peace with yourself. This is some "heaven on Earth" on a personal level.

Christianity don't get you trying to point out the wrong of other religions as it's strength, but doing the will of God and upholding what's morally enshrined in your culture. It's not trying to build a pyramid for it's country of birth, e.g. Jerusalem, but instead heavenly one.

It doesn't get you to speak Hebrew, compel you on a pilgrimage to it's shrines and ask you to fast if you don't want to fast. So you are at the very center of your consciousness and whatever you can make of it in the light of truth of the word of God. That's true liberty.

With all this knowledge, if you have religious turn of mind to feed your consciousness by, it would be easy to be a Christian. But that never saves you from the Christian dogma or doctrines. You still have to do your own research and grow your intellect.

Growing in your Christian intellect is going to church to nurture your faith. As you strive to know God, you go through men in the hope that you become a better version of man. The consciousness is what connect us to God, our creator, and from this religion of all sort were born.

Sorry for my terrible punctuations.

MrPRevailer:


Lol I actually sounded like muslim.
I'm a Christian.

Majority of the masses don't know that almost all Muslims support Israel's removal from the land/Jerusalem or destruction because of Islam.

That's why all the Arab media automatically go into LIE MODE to defend Hamas and defame Israel. .

Actually, the writer of the Quran was Mohammed or one of his Companions. Who claimed that the Quran was given to him by Angel Gabriel in a cave.

The true Palestinians were the original Philistines of the Bible. They were seafarers. The people of that time have moved countless times like the entire people of this same region, including the Israelites of the northern kingdom that the Persians completely removed and scattered, planting another people in their stead 720bce.

Then the little stump of Judah, comprising of Jerusalem and Lachish was taken to captivity by the Babylonians much later. The Muslim interest in Jerusalem was after the first caliphate Uthman captured what is left of Jerusalem in the 6th century AD.

Lands don't move, people do and they can always retrace their steps homeward. Quran was collated much after the prophet of Islam like you have rightly said. Palestine was how Roman choosed to call Israel to obliterate the stubborn Jewish nationalism of the Roman age, which ultimately led to the final destruction of the nation of Israel 72 AD.

magabounce:
Damn!!!!! This is so so deep!!! And clearly explained.
I would assume you're passionate about philosophy of the world. I hope we can be mutuals..I would have a lot to learn from you. I'm following you asap

WOW thanks, it's my pleasure, if we don't learn, we would be stuck to ignorance and be thinking it's the light.

We owe a lot to the next generation, so we have to keep learning.

liasmiram2567:


Isreal is using denying the people of food ,water ,electricity,medical equipment,fuel etc AS A WEPAPON. WEAPONISING THE BASIC NEEDSOF MAN IS A WAR CRIME

Hamas control everything in Gaza, do you expect Israel to be feeding hamas and providing them with those basic needs u mentioned?

nlfpmod:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jWLzkdc-9P8?si=5MBv-I_ugXWyfq9k

UN says Gaza residents broke into food warehouses with 'civil order' disintegrating

Are residents not supposed to have left via open corridors? I believe these are Hamas sympathisers and fellow terrorists. If you really think that the slaughter of a thousand Jews in cold blood in the homeland would be just another walk in the park, without the Pillar of Hamas being dismantled for ever, then you surely have another think coming ...
No propaganda will deter the Israeli mission for the expiration and extinction of Hamas. It is a deed that must be done at every cost and by every means necessary...

absoluteSuccess:


The true Palestinians were the original Philistines of the Bible. They were seafarers. The people of that time have moved countless times like the entire people of this same region, including the Israelites of the northern kingdom that the Persians completely removed and scattered, planting another people in their stead 720bce.

Then the little stump of Judah, comprising of Jerusalem and Lachish was taken to captivity by the Babylonians much later. The Muslim interest in Jerusalem was after the first caliphate Uthman captured what is left of Jerusalem in the 6th century AD.

Lands don't move, people do and they can always retrace their steps homeward. Quran was collated much after the prophet of Islam like you have rightly said. Palestine was how Roman choosed to call Israel to obliterate the stubborn Jewish nationalism of the Roman age, which ultimately led to the final destruction of the nation of Israel 72 AD.

...
Romans* the same empire that subverted Christianity because they could not completely stop Christianity through genocide and persecution. John 11:48, acts 8:4

MrPRevailer:

...
Romans* the same empire that subverted Christianity because they could not completely stop Christianity through genocide and persecution. John 11:48, acts 8:4

Very true, they pushed the early Christians to the catacombs, prisonyards, arenas, not until their emperor, Constantine eventually succumbed to Christianity when he had a dream in which he saw a flaming sword in Cross form and a voice said "in this, conquer".

I think the Christendom owes the adoption of symbolism of the cross to this man, and to subvert arianism, the Trinity at the convention of Nicai. It's this line that resonates with the claim that the Bible is tampered with, the Jehovah witnesses resolves this complications in Christianity.

The almighty Rome equally succumbed to the Vandals who ultimately overran her empire afterwards.

absoluteSuccess:


Very true, they pushed the early Christians to the catacombs, prisonyards, arenas, not until their emperor, Constantine eventually succumbed to Christianity when he had a dream in which he saw a flaming sword in Cross form and a voice said "in this, conquer".

I think the Christendom owes the adoption of symbolism of the cross to this man, and to subvert arianism, the Trinity at the convention of Nicai. It's this line that resonates with the claim that the Bible is tampered with, the Jehovah witnesses resolves this complications in Christianity.

The almighty Rome equally succumbed to the Vandals who ultimately overran her empire afterwards.

As a non-member of Jehovah witness I think we will disagree on many matters. But on the foundation of Islam and Roman Catholism we seem to agree.

Trinity is expressed in the Bible. Just as Rapture is also expressed. The terminologies were later coined to give the expression a name.

Trinity simply means Jesus and the Holyghost are inside God and came out from him. Just as your Soul and Spirit comes out from your body.

John 8:42 "I proceeded forth and came from God"

John 16:27-28 "I came out from God neither came I of myself, but he sent me'

John 15:26 '....even the spirit of Truth which proceeded forth from the Father'.

Matthew 28:19 "Baptise all men in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holyghost.

John 1:1 "The Word was with God and was God
All things were made by him".

There is also 1 John 5:7 KJV but that is controversial because many translations removed it from the Bible. But they didn't know to remove John 8;42, John 16:27-28, John 15:26

MrPRevailer:


As a non-member of Jehovah witness I think we will disagree on many matters. But on the foundation of Islam and Roman Catholism we seem to agree.

Trinity is expressed in the Bible. Just as Rapture is also expressed. The terminologies were later coined to give the expression a name.

Trinity simply means Jesus and the Holyghost are inside God and came out from him. Just as your Soul and Spirit comes out from your body.

John 8:42 "I proceeded forth and came from God"

John 16:27-28 "I came out from God neither came I of myself, but he sent me'

John 15:26 '....even the spirit of Truth which proceeded forth from the Father'.

Matthew 28:19 "Baptise all men in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holyghost.

John 1:1 "The Word was with God and was God
All things were made by him".

There is also 1 John 5:7 KJV but that is controversial because many translations removed it from the Bible. But they didn't know to remove John 8;42, John 16:27-28, John 15:26

Thanks for your feedback, I'm not a witness, I'm a Christian with no sentimental attachment to any dogma, I don't want to justify any doctrine or dogma, let's just see how some of the claims we make today really evolved.

Just try and read up on the argument that led to Trinity. So also, keep an open mind and do not invent a word to simplify the doctrines, let the word of God comes to you as you have it in the scripture.

You can read up on church history for this.

absoluteSuccess:


Thanks for your feedback, I'm not a witness, I'm a Christian with no sentimental attachment to any dogma, I don't want to justify any doctrine or dogma, let's just see how some of the claims we make today really evolved.

Just try and read up on the argument that led to Trinity. So also, keep an open mind and do not invent a word to simplify the doctrines, let the word of God comes to you as you have it in the scripture.

You can read up on church history for this.

You mean read up on Church history for the truth about Trinity?

But it is sufficiently expressed in the Bible already, only that the terminology Trinity isn't there.
Just as the word "THE RAPTURE" isn't in the Bible. But we all know it's severally expressed there.

MrPRevailer:


You mean read up on Church history for the truth about Trinity?

But it is sufficiently expressed in the Bible already, only that the terminology Trinity isn't there.
Just as the word "THE RAPTURE" isn't in the Bible. But we all know it's severally expressed there.

The last passage of the book of revelation said it all. Moreso, RAPTURE is less than 300 years.

But the concept of rapture itself is Hellenistic infusion into Christian doctrine by early church fathers.

It's ultimately from Plato, dear brother. The early church fathers interpreted the Christian canon from platonic philosophy, from where we came about rapture in it's pristine form.

Right after the destruction of Jerusalem and at the end of the era of the Apostles of Christ, the headquarters of Christian faith moved from Jerusalem to Alexandria, Egypt, the citadel of learning all over the world at this phase in time.

There's were you have the fertile imagination of great teachers and ecumenical processes going on, and you must have heard of St Augustus of Hippo and so on and so forth, these are examples of church fathers.

How did they tried to explain Christianity philosophically? That explains partly what shaped some of the things we believed.

themanderon:


Hahaha,, who told you that? Hamas will always be Hamas. Seems you don't know how this Arabs think. Hamas has gotten what it wanted. It wanted to bring the Palestinian question back on the front burner since events like the war in Ukraine has taken attention away from them. They attacked knowing what Israel's response will be. They wanted the world's attention for more money and food to come in through aid.
After a truce is signed, relative peace follows for a few years and bam!!! Hamas strikes again and the cycle continues. We have witnessed the cycle for decades now so it's nothing new. Hamas is ready to sacrifice as many Palestinians as possible while it's leaders live in luxury in other Arab countries.
Hamas doesn't want peace with Israel, No it wants the total destruction of the state of Israel working with Hizbollah and their master Iran.

Thanks for the post, we learn everyday.

absoluteSuccess:


The last passage of the book of revelation said it all. Moreso, RAPTURE is less than 300 years.

But the concept of rapture itself is Hellenistic infusion into Christian doctrine by early church fathers.

It's ultimately from Plato, dear brother. The early church fathers interpreted the Christian canon from platonic philosophy, from where we came about rapture in it's pristine form.

Right after the destruction of Jerusalem and at the end of the era of the Apostles of Christ, the headquarters of Christian faith moved from Jerusalem to Alexandria, Egypt, the citadel of learning all over the world at this phase in time.

There's were you have the fertile imagination of great teachers and ecumenical processes going on, and you must have heard of St Augustus of Hippo and so on and so forth, these are examples of church fathers.

How did they tried to explain Christianity philosophically? That explains partly what shaped some of the things we believed.

What does the Rapture mean? Can you define it

MrPRevailer:


What does the Rapture mean? Can you define it

Rapture, in layman's language is when two people are in farm, and one man is taken, and the other is not, at the sound of the trumpet of the archangel.

That "taken" like it was in the case of Enoch, is "rapture" in the personal sense of the word to whom it is pertained.

Recall, Christ was not raptured. He went into the sky in his resurrected body to heaven.

Christian "rapture" is mass movement of faithful Christians to heaven. It has not yet been, so we can't say it's like what we have read of.

.

absoluteSuccess:


Rapture, in layman's language is when two people are in farm, and one man is taken, and the other is not, at the sound of the trumpet of the archangel.

That "taken" like it was in the case of Enoch, is "rapture" in the personal sense of the word to whom it is pertained.

Recall, Christ was not raptured. He went into the sky in his resurrected body to heaven.

Christian "rapture" is mass movement of faithful Christians to heaven. It has not yet been, so we can't say it's like what we have read of.

You said it's not biblicaland it was forged by a group of Clergymen.
But there you are, using the words of Jesus "one taken and the other left".

Well, I'm glad to inform you it's not only Jesus who spoke about it. Paul spoke two times about it with clear description. And John insinuated it by talking about the wedding of the Bridegroom taking place before Jesus Second coming to Earth to stop the Antichrist. Revelation 19:7-9

1 Thessalonians 4:15-17 '15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.

16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord."

1 Corinthians 15:51 "51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,

52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.

54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory."

There is no word called RAPTURE therein. But it is strongly expressed. So is "TRINITY"

MrPRevailer:



You said it's not biblicaland it was forged by a group of Clergymen.
But there you are, using the words of Jesus "one taken and the other left".

Well, I'm glad to inform you it's not only Jesus who spoke about it. Paul spoke two times about it with clear description. And John insinuated it by talking about the wedding of the Bridegroom taking place before Jesus Second coming to Earth to stop the Antichrist. Revelation 19:7-9






There is no word called RAPTURE therein. But it is strongly expressed. So is "TRINITY"

Baba, the teaching of Christ is one, the doctrine of the church is another. if you have an institution founded and you just step aside for a while, by the time you leave and come back, you will not recognize what you have left behind with men and "improvements" that would have happened to your teaching in the hand of "learned men".

None of these people created the universe, how do they understand interplanetry transportations this much because of the death of Christ? If what we are to get from the Jew, according to Christ is salvation, at what point does "rapture" becomes "salvation"? mind you, "the kingdom of God" that Christ was preaching on his own after baptism is the salvation that he's talking about. Salvation is salvation.

Salvation is not rapture.

Salvation is the hope of the fathers of faith and the promise of God for mankind. That's exactly what Christ came to redeem. if we can base our faith in Christ on salvation as "promised" (through prophets) before "redemption"(through Christ), we will look into the prophets (promises) to accept the doctrine of our redemption (Christ), or else we are simply creating "religion" after our passion.

for instant, if you go back to the passage of the trinity, you have something like, "there are three that beareth record in heaven, the father the son and the spirit" Okay, that said. But to whom do they bear this records, who is, (or are) their witness(es) and why are they bearing this records? You can't mystify God as much as you can't describe God. let Him be God alone.

Then, why is it important that we know they are bearing records?

Now immediately after that was said, another line follows where we have people bearing record "in" the earth, the blood, the water and the spirit. If the first set of record bearer parallel with the second set of record bearers, and we were told about this too in no clear terms the contents of their records and the purpose of our knowing these details, then its "the ultimate creation of mystery", and then the final evidence of a parallel universe.

since that's not what "christendom" intended to push, we then have this mystery as "Trinity". So its not God-made trinity but man-made doctrine mystified by that bible passage. Now before we can actually do justice to this, we both have to start off from the same launchpad, that possibly in the oldest christian manuscript, this passage does not exist. If it does, it means there's an enclave outside the earth like the heaven where God is, the universe is just two planets, heaven and earth, from this analogy, with parallel divinity.

Trinity: Enter Islam

From this mystification of deity, we (christendom) are the ones who created "Islam". What the church fathers tried to settle (Arianism) at the convention of Nicaea returned back as "Islam" much later from Arabia, this time around with bloody prosecution of faith and vengeance till this day. Let God be God, let Christ be Christ. Let the Spirit of God be the Spirit of God, but we said no, they are one but three.

Let's say the bible said we will be all caught up in the sky, how many old manuscripts have we checked to validate this was the position of the church at the onset of time? how many disciples of Christ hold this belief as what Christ taught his disciples and how many times did Christ preached this as sermon and prayed about it?

Is rapture the "salvation package" that God have for mankind? So, the prophets does not matter, only the word of Paul will do. That's creating an imaginary universe and telling God to do as you wish. We can only think as men, we cannot think for God with our limitations.

absoluteSuccess:


Baba, the teaching of Christ is one, the doctrine of the church is another. if you have an institution founded and you just step aside for a while, by the time you leave and come back, you will not recognize what you have left behind with men and "improvements" that would have happened to your teaching in the hand of "learned men".

None of these people created the universe, how do they understand interplanetry transportations this much because of the death of Christ? If what we are to get from the Jew, according to Christ is salvation, at what point does "rapture" becomes "salvation"? mind you, "the kingdom of God" that Christ was preaching on his own after baptism is the salvation that he's talking about. Salvation is salvation.

Salvation is not rapture.

Salvation is the hope of the fathers of faith and the promise of God for mankind. That's exactly what Christ came to redeem. if we can base our faith in Christ on salvation as "promised" (through prophets) before "redemption"(through Christ), we will look into the prophets (promises) to accept the doctrine of our redemption (Christ), or else we are simply creating "religion" after our passion.

for instant, if you go back to the passage of the trinity, you have something like, "there are three that beareth record in heaven, the father the son and the spirit" Okay, that said. But to whom do they bear this records, who is, (or are) their witness(es) and why are they bearing this records? You can't mystify God as much as you can't describe God. let Him be God alone.

Then, why is it important that we know they are bearing records?

Now immediately after that was said, another line follows where we have people bearing record "in" the earth, the blood, the water and the spirit. If the first set of record bearer parallel with the second set of record bearers, and we were told about this too in no clear terms the contents of their records and the purpose of our knowing these details, then its "the ultimate creation of mystery", and then the final evidence of a parallel universe.

since that's not what "christendom" intended to push, we then have this mystery as "Trinity". So its not God-made trinity but man-made doctrine mystified by that bible passage. Now before we can actually do justice to this, we both have to start off from the same launchpad, that possibly in the oldest christian manuscript, this passage does not exist. If it does, it means there's an enclave outside the earth like the heaven where God is, the universe is just two planets, heaven and earth, from this analogy, with parallel divinity.

Trinity: Enter Islam

From this mystification of deity, we (christendom) are the ones who created "Islam". What the church fathers tried to settle (Arianism) at the convention of Nicaea returned back as "Islam" much later from Arabia, this time around with bloody prosecution of faith and vengeance till this day. Let God be God, let Christ be Christ. Let the Spirit of God be the Spirit of God, but we said no, they are one but three.

Let's say the bible said we will be all caught up in the sky, how many old manuscripts have we checked to validate this was the position of the church at the onset of time? how many disciples of Christ hold this belief as what Christ taught his disciples and how many times did Christ preached this as sermon and prayed about it?

Is rapture the "salvation package" that God have for mankind? So, the prophets does not matter, only the word of Paul will do. That's creating an imaginary universe and telling God to do as you wish. We can only think as men, we cannot think for God with our limitations.

1 i) Please kindly explain John 8:42, John 16:27-28, John 15:26
ii) And convincingly tell me how its different from Trinity.

2) i)When Jesus says "one shall be taken and the other left" what does it mean?
ii) When Paul says "and we shall be caught up to be with him in the air". What does that mean?
iii) How is that different from the Rapture?


Fyi, I never said Rapture means salvation.
Salvation is the redemption of the soul from sin.

MrPRevailer:


1 i) Please kindly explain John 8:42, John 16:27-28, John 15:26
ii) And convincingly tell me how its different from Trinity.

2) i)When Jesus says "one shall be taken and the other left" what does it mean?
ii) When Paul says "and we shall be caught up to be with him in the air". What does that mean?
iii) How is that different from the Rapture?


Fyi, I never said Rapture means salvation.
Salvation is the redemption of the soul from sin.

Brother, you shall know the truth, and the truth will set you free. Lets not argue on dogma, just do your own research.

I've spent years on this site and at one time I almost lost my life for my researches from a fellow from this same site who must be right that I'm wrong.

He and his friends set me up, but God delivered me from their traps, I don't want a vicious circle, I am not controversial, just that we cab always learn and analyse the truth. Let's end the conversation sir.

I'm not saying you are wrong, I only think differently.

My thinking comes from readings and comments from the earliest manuscripts such as the Masoretic text, the Vulgate and so on and so forth.

There were events and early bible manuscripts and Judaism before KJV.

absoluteSuccess:


Brother, you shall know the truth, and the truth will set you free. Lets not argue on dogma, just do your own research.

I've spent years on this site and at one time I almost lost my life for my researches from a fellow from this same site who must be right that I'm wrong.

He and his friends set me up, but God delivered me from their traps, I don't want a vicious circle, I am not controversial, just that we cab always learn and analyse the truth. Let's end the conversation sir.

I'm not saying you are wrong, I only think differently.

My thinking comes from readings and comments from the earliest manuscripts such as the Masoretic text, the Vulgate and so on and so forth.

There were events and early bible manuscripts and Judaism before KJV.

Your different thought is indeed different and contrary to details found in the Bible.

If you are a Christian, why don't you have faith that God can preserved his Word?

You read polluted documents/manuscripts and think you are learning.

KJV is the first English Bible translation supervised by King James of England. Translated by 450 Hebrew and Greek SCHOLARS (not average translators).

They were carefully vetted to ensure the originality of the sources. And translations were mediated by Hebrew language experts who also understood Greek.
And they were not 4 experts but 450 experts.

There will be many false manuscripts springing UpTo attack the authencity of the Bible. Don't fall for it. Some will say "Banned from the Bible" etc. Don't fall for those crap. The kingdom of darkness are ceaselessly raging against the Truth.

KJV Bible comprises the stories, laws and prophecies of the prophets of Israel which were practising Judaism. That's called the OLD TESTAMENT.

MrPRevailer:


Your different thought is indeed different and contrary to details found in the Bible.

If you are a Christian, why don't you have faith that God can preserved his Word?

You read polluted documents/manuscripts and think you are learning.

KJV is the first English Bible translation supervised by King James of England. Translated by 450 Hebrew and Greek SCHOLARS (not average translators).

They were carefully vetted to ensure the originality of the sources. And translations were mediated by Hebrew language experts who also understood Greek.
And they were not 4 experts but 450 experts.

There will be many false manuscripts springing UpTo attack the authencity of the Bible. Don't fall for it. Some will say "Banned from the Bible" etc. Don't fall for those crap. The kingdom of darkness are ceaselessly raging against the Truth.

KJV Bible comprises the stories, laws and prophecies of the prophets of Israel which were practising Judaism. That's called the OLD TESTAMENT.

When Christ died on the cross, where did he go?

Historical Gist:
King James was motivated by a difference he had with the Pope of his time as to marrying the widow of his brother. That was what led to England abandonment of the Roman Catholic and the establishment of Anglican communion. But that does not in any way cast aspersion on the the place of the Holy Bible of any sort. I am an avid reader and believer in the holy Bible, irrespective of the version.

However, when it comes to learning, you can keep your feelings aside and face the truth.