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Yoruba Hebrew Heritage (End Of Discussion) by absoluteSuccess: 5:14pm On Mar 16
Finally, its time to share a crucial insight on the subject that I've been on for a while on this site for the benefits of those who are following the story and would like to know how it all ended. This is the part where I am supposed to "squeeze water out of the stone".

This is the 24th years after I first stumble on the idea reading the passage of the Bible, and the prophets especially. I was much younger, and trying to compose my first line of poetry at that particular point in time, that's the every reason I was reading the bible at that point in time. In my song about the roots, I mentioned "Biblical Babel" It just occurred to me that what would i say if anyone ask me much later on this very line?

As a result, I have to borrow a bible from my neighbour just to look up that story. I was surprised to see "Ethiopia". I was then loving it as I flip through the pages now looking for passages that I can adapt to my composition. Few days afterwards, I was home reading my brother's possibly "conversion bible". It was on that day that I stumbled on the passage that eventually got me hooked.

I sat up on the bed, and did another thorough read-through. I said to myself, "this is Nigeria staring me at the face in the Bible, wow". The rest is now history.

"Out of the mouth of babes and sucklings hast thou ordained strength because of thine enemies, that thou mightest still the enemy and the avenger"

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Re: Yoruba Hebrew Heritage (End Of Discussion) by absoluteSuccess: 5:30pm On Mar 16
There are words that are in Yoruba in the above. Also, there are words that are ancient Yoruba that we can't decode without relying on the record of the bible.

For instance, what led to this search? I posted something about Moses being Mosa (odu Mosa) in Yoruba, then a poster known as Jonathan Markoff on quora.com made a rebuttal that what I've posted is mere crap from accidental matching of names.

What can I say, I have this inkling that it's only through oriki that most of the ancient history of the Yoruba can be gleaned. Now to demonstrate this, I have to assume that some legends are part of Yoruba culture that traces back to the Levant.

Now my technique is very simple, just as shown above. Let's say I assume that Iresa means "i-re-sa", that is, "the-lagoon-cutting". In that instance, the oriki "Iresa" will have something stunning about the Levant. So, i search for this.

No surprise, it turned up just as expected. This proves my point.

Iresa is a word that derive from the sea-parting story of the Hebrew. Then if that be the case, its either the Yoruba oriki mention the people involve in this story verbatim. that is exactly what you have in "omo Ju anigbo iromode iresa". What is "Ju" in Yoruba?

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Re: Yoruba Hebrew Heritage (End Of Discussion) by Bulldozer90: 6:02pm On Mar 16
Funny country. We've always known that all the buzz about Igbo Hebrew heritage from Yorubas is envy and nothing more.
Re: Yoruba Hebrew Heritage (End Of Discussion) by absoluteSuccess: 6:15pm On Mar 16
Bulldozer90:
Funny country. We've always known that all the buzz about Igbo Hebrew heritage from Yorubas is envy and nothing more.

Most of the West Africans are one people. Nigeria is the dispersal point of the bulk of people that spread through the sub Sahara.

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Re: Yoruba Hebrew Heritage (End Of Discussion) by Bulldozer90: 6:26pm On Mar 16
absoluteSuccess:


Most of the West Africans are one people. Nigeria is the dispersal point of the bulk of people that spread through the sub Sahara.
source: trust me bro.

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Re: Yoruba Hebrew Heritage (End Of Discussion) by absoluteSuccess: 7:13pm On Mar 16
Bulldozer90:
source: trust me bro.

The Hausa forms the bulk of people in the Northern Nigeria. These people can be found as far as Niger, Ghana e.t.c as indigenous people.

The Yoruba forms a bulk of people at the southern Nigeria, the Yoruba sub-ethnic groups can be found as indigenous people of Benin Republic, Togo, Ghana and Sierra Leone pre-colonial era.

The Igbo forms the bulk of the people in the south eastern Nigeria, the Arochukwu have a good connection with the Cross riverians and the Bantoid group that spread down towards Congo and south Africa right from time.

Now the Yoruba group have in its antiquity a primordial relationship with the Hausa, and the Yoruba tradition attest to this as it says "Aina o, keke lo gun, l'Hausa lo ti wa". Not only this, the tribal mark was invented as means of identification, the Gobir (gongobiri) in Hausa bears identical tribal marks with their Yoruba counterpart in their own fashion.

Yoruba is a variant of Bariba.

How many West African countries have their people fanning into other neigbouring country as Nigeria?

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Re: Yoruba Hebrew Heritage (End Of Discussion) by Bulldozer90: 7:17pm On Mar 16
absoluteSuccess:


The Hausa forms the bulk of people in the Northern Nigeria. These people can be found as far as Niger, Ghana e.t.c as indigenous people.

The Yoruba forms a bulk of people at the southern Nigeria, the Yoruba sub-ethnic groups can be found as indigenous people of Benin Republic, Togo, Ghana and Sierra Leone pre-colonial era.

The Igbo forms the bulk of the people in the south eastern Nigeria, the Arochukwu have a good connection with the Cross riverians and the Bantoid group that spread down towards Congo and south Africa right from time.

Now the Yoruba group have in its antiquity a primordial relationship with the Hausa, and the Yoruba tradition attest to this as it says "Aina o, keke lo gun, l'Hausa lo ti wa". Not only this, the tribal mark was invented as means of identification, the Gobir (gongobiri) in Hausa bears identical tribal marks with their Yoruba counterpart in their own fashion.

Yoruba is a variant of Bariba.

How many West African countries have their people fanning into other neigbouring country as Nigeria?
another source right?
Re: Yoruba Hebrew Heritage (End Of Discussion) by absoluteSuccess: 7:20pm On Mar 16
Bulldozer90:
another source right?

My point may not be good enough for you, why not do your own research sir?

Please, do your own research.

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Re: Yoruba Hebrew Heritage (End Of Discussion) by Bulldozer90: 7:33pm On Mar 16
absoluteSuccess:


My point may not be good enough for you, why not do your own research sir?

Please, do your own research.
what you wrote is "research"?

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Re: Yoruba Hebrew Heritage (End Of Discussion) by absoluteSuccess: 7:47pm On Mar 16
Bulldozer90:
Funny country. We've always known that all the buzz about Igbo Hebrew heritage from Yorubas is envy and nothing more.

Bulldozer90:
source: trust me bro.

Bulldozer90:
what you wrote is "research"?

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Re: Yoruba Hebrew Heritage (End Of Discussion) by absoluteSuccess: 7:58pm On Mar 16
Now here are the take away from the oriki from the Yoruba repertoire of oral records.

There's a place called Ekoro in antiquity.

there are a Yoruba people known as omo Ju.

These people were also omo baba dudu eti Ekoro.

they were omo koro nigbo Ekoro.

By this token, the "Ju" in this tradition were dwellers at the vicinity of Ekoro.

Now, let's anglicize these place names in antiquity:

Ekoro-Yoruba.
Ekron: Anglican.

Ju: Yoruba
Jew: Anglicized

These two places exist in antiquity. While the Yoruba retain a memory of her history by these names, the English anglicized how the place was also called in history.

The simple but unique tradition also talk of omo Ju a-nigbo iro-mode-iresa. So simple but superbly historical.

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Re: Yoruba Hebrew Heritage (End Of Discussion) by absoluteSuccess: 8:05pm On Mar 16

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Re: Yoruba Hebrew Heritage (End Of Discussion) by absoluteSuccess: 8:07pm On Mar 16
To God be the glory.

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Re: Yoruba Hebrew Heritage (End Of Discussion) by NaijaPrince18: 10:19pm On Mar 16
Neither Yoruba or Igbo have hebrew heritage in any way. However both might be related to ancient Chinese and Japanese people. The Jews are closer to europeans and other middle easterners than anything else. Yoruba have more similarities with the Asians than anything like Jew. I don’t know why Africans are obsessed with being Jews when they are clearly not. Arabs are 99% related to Jews and y’all never pretend to be Arab. We are more like Asians than anyone else. Religion has really ruined our spirituality

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Re: Yoruba Hebrew Heritage (End Of Discussion) by absoluteSuccess: 5:13am On Mar 17
NaijaPrince18:
Neither Yoruba or Igbo have hebrew heritage in any way. However both might be related to ancient Chinese and Japanese people. The Jews are closer to europeans and other middle easterners than anything else. Yoruba have more similarities with the Asians than anything like Jew. I don’t know why Africans are obsessed with being Jews when they are clearly not. Arabs are 99% related to Jews and y’all never pretend to be Arab. We are more like Asians than anyone else. Religion has really ruined our spirituality

OK, thanks. I understand. So, we can't be Hebrews or Jews but can be Japanese or Chinese. Atheism has helped you to understand how we may never be close to European (due to their Caucasoid features-my assumption). Can you shed some light on the basis of your inference?

From your opinion, we are closer to Far-East Asians due to their [mongoloid] or spirituality features? LOL, here is the thought system of someone who sees history from feedback of watching Korean movies and never reading a book on the subject he now claims to be a maestro. Even the Europeans have a Dark Age. What about that?

So, "religion" is to be blame for every Levant origin claims while "spirituality" is responsible for your own grand standing conclusions? Yet underneath your conclusion is common "Afro-Mongoloid Common-Spirituality". How do we claim "common spirituality" origin with the far-East? What oral tradition connect us? independent Paganism? Mongo-Negroid features or what?

Now, what area of expertise makes you claim Chinese and not European by chance? Why do you shy away from Europeans? At least something inform your conclusion just as "religion" as you claimed informs mine. Don't "box" history into a race-card, that's mediocre and self delusion. Race card is the very core of "inferiority complex" presenting itself as intellectual argument on nairaland under different cloak.

Here you want to talk about racial features but lack the right word for it, you also want to talk about natural human experience such as universal paganism as "Afro-Mongol origin" in which case "Monotheism" is the origin of the Europeans, the Jews and the Arab, sort of) but you lack the right word for it too. Yet, you spoke as though you have "the best conclusion" even though you don't have the clear idea what you want to desperately say.


You can check my name out on that quora post.

This post goes a long way to demonstrate the race question. The race-card is the barrier that these clique get stuck on and can't move out from because they lack answers for it, then they restrict themselves to the boundary that they find themselves as the limit of their history and if you dare to think differently from them, they come up with their convergent and condescending arguments and insults.

Don't turn your ignorance to virtue.

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Re: Yoruba Hebrew Heritage (End Of Discussion) by absoluteSuccess: 5:27am On Mar 17
Now let's check out the user named Jonathan Markoff on quora.com and his/her contributions on that site and compare with the atheistic posts of our own macof here in religion section, something seems to be far beyond accidental.

Just as this person is Yoruba and Yoruba is his only identity, the other guy is into bible-bashing and identity issues too, because the claim that someone is Yoruba and the same person argues with simple diacritics on "rain" and whats not is "out-of-this-worldish"

Probably, this thread wont have been without his/her input. In a situation where I'm right, that's a big exposition and the "influencer status" of this guy is not to be joked about. I know the risks I'm up against from time and I can best appreciate the danger ahead as well.

Now I know where the resources sponsoring manhunt and monitoring of my movement is coming from. We wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities and power, rulers of darkness of this world.

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Re: Yoruba Hebrew Heritage (End Of Discussion) by absoluteSuccess: 11:03am On Mar 17
People bring up the race card, talk about inferiority complex and so on just to earn some likes from shallow thinkers like them and sees themselves as superb and accomplish historians or their advocates, or perhaps the ones who are protecting or promoting African values.

I have seen enough of that already, you never solve any intellectual problem. You only try to profit where you will sow nothing eventually. Most often, these clique knew next to nothing about the African traditional religion they claim to profess or its place in history. They just want to insult and earn likes.

I am using bible as a history book on this thread, and on all my other history related threads too, maybe understanding that can do a lot of help. I do quote Ifa oracle when I have to, so I'm not proselyting your converts, try and see beyond religious sentiments as basis of my claims.

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Re: Yoruba Hebrew Heritage (End Of Discussion) by NaijaPrince18: 1:15pm On Mar 17
absoluteSuccess:
People bring up the race card, talk about inferiority complex and so on just to earn some likes from shallow thinkers like them and sees themselves as superb and accomplish historians or their advocates, or perhaps the ones who are protecting or promoting African values.

I have seen enough of that already, you never solve any intellectual problem. You only try to profit where you will sow nothing eventually. Most often, these clique knew next to nothing about the African traditional religion they claim to profess or its place in history. They just want to insult and earn likes.

I am using bible as a history book on this thread, and on all my other history related threads too, maybe understanding that can do a lot of help. I do quote Ifa oracle when I have to, so I'm not proselyting your converts, try and see beyond religious sentiments as basis of my claims.
You have inferiority complex to the Jews that’s why you are claiming something you’re not. There’s nothing jew about us we are west Africans. The Bible is not a history book. You can’t even prove anything but are just being extremely emotional

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Re: Yoruba Hebrew Heritage (End Of Discussion) by absoluteSuccess: 5:26pm On Mar 17
NaijaPrince18:

You have inferiority complex to the Jews that’s why you are claiming something you’re not. There’s nothing jew about us we are west Africans. The Bible is not a history book. You can’t even prove anything but are just being extremely emotional

Bro, we are not "West African". There's no people who identify themselves as West African pre-colonial, we were "schooled' to be slaves and wear a given identity with pride. That's the heritage of "colo-mentality" from someone screaming "inferiority complex". It would be very difficult to see this in ourselves, as we are now "educated".

Now let's say the people we call "Oyinbo" were so: "oyinbo", meaning, they agree with us that they are oyinbo, irrespective of what that word means. Since the word itself is from west africa, would oyinbo have the etymology of this word in their lexicon? What does it matter, you will say. If you are not perpetually stuck to "inferiority IQ", you will understand this better: would Oyinbo man say of themselves, "we are oyinbo, that's our history"?

I am an Awori man, a Yoruba man in extension. In that name, a multicultural, inter-generational and intercontinental history is embedded. That's a fact if i have the depth to proof this. You are a West African, in that name, identity is lost forever. All your past become dissolved in the name that you were called by some foreigners who conquered your land in the 19th century.

How do we superimpose thousands year of history that we are ignorant of beneath a foreign name that we are called about some centuries ago? That's a people who lack historical and linguistic dept speaking, and from their angle, we can see weakness covered with empty pride. This is the reason you can't tell me about my antiquity, because antiquity never exist in your idea of "history". In extension, you are ignorant of history.

Bro, this is what you will keep saying from now till thy kingdom comes, once you have this angle, you will have the confidence you know something, whereas, you have shared what you know much earlier, you don't have clue how the world map looks, you don't have the idea of the world before the 20th century.

Inwardly, you feel inferior to identify with "superior" Europeans, if not, share how you discover our connection with the Far-East. You can't convict another person on the same crime you are culpable by default.

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Re: Yoruba Hebrew Heritage (End Of Discussion) by NaijaPrince18: 6:39pm On Mar 17
absoluteSuccess:


Bro, we are not "West African". There's no people who identify themselves as West African pre-colonial, we were "schooled' to be slaves and wear a given identity with pride. That's the heritage of "colo-mentality" from someone screaming "inferiority complex". It would be very difficult to see this in ourselves, as we are now "educated".

Now let's say the people we call "Oyinbo" were so: "oyinbo", meaning, they agree with us that they are oyinbo, irrespective of what that word means. Since the word itself is from west africa, would oyinbo have the etymology of this word in their lexicon? What does it matter, you will say. If you are not perpetually stuck to "inferiority IQ", you will understand this better: would Oyinbo man say of themselves, "we are oyinbo, that's our history"?

I am an Awori man, a Yoruba man in extension. In that name, a multicultural, inter-generational and intercontinental history is embedded. That's a fact if i have the depth to proof this. You are a West African, in that name, identity is lost forever. All your past become dissolved in the name that you were called by some foreigners who conquered your land in the 19th century.

How do we superimpose thousands year of history that we are ignorant of beneath a foreign name that we are called about some centuries ago? That's a people who lack historical and linguistic dept speaking, and from their angle, we can see weakness covered with empty pride. This is the reason you can't tell me about my antiquity, because antiquity never exist in your idea of "history". In extension, you are ignorant of history.

Bro, this is what you will keep saying from now till thy kingdom comes, once you have this angle, you will have the confidence you know something, whereas, you have shared what you know much earlier, you don't have clue how the world map looks, you don't have the idea of the world before the 20th century.

Inwardly, you feel inferior to identify with "superior" Europeans, if not, share how you discover our connection with the Far-East. You can't convict another person on the same crime you are culpable by default.
We are not west African now? 😂😂😂😂. Just stop posting please. It’s embarrassing. Please tell me what the root of awori is? Is it not ife? Which is Osun state not Israel.
I’m not the one obsessing over Jews. You clearly feel inferior to them. Jews are middle easterners not Africans or Europeans

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Re: Yoruba Hebrew Heritage (End Of Discussion) by absoluteSuccess: 7:20pm On Mar 17
NaijaPrince18:

We are not west African now? 😂😂😂😂. Just stop posting please. It’s embarrassing. Please tell me what the root of awori is? Is it not ife? Which is Osun state not Israel.
I’m not the one obsessing over Jews. You clearly feel inferior to them. Jews are middle easterners not Africans or Europeans

LOL, just go and play bro, or wait a little time longer and you will get the likes you want from your "like farm".

Running home. Okay, we are from Osun state, which is Ile Ife. Once we say that, we have come to the end of discussion right?

Now, who named Ife,Ile Ife?

Who was Osun?

What does Awori means?

What are the proof of your claims?

When you can't defend your own claims, you start running here and there laying allegations, its slavery to reduce your story to West African that's what I'm saying. Without that name, you wont have had a name to describe yourself by right now.

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Re: Yoruba Hebrew Heritage (End Of Discussion) by NaijaPrince18: 9:42pm On Mar 17
absoluteSuccess:


LOL, just go and play bro, or wait a little time longer and you will get the likes you want from your "like farm".

Running home. Okay, we are from Osun state, which is Ile Ife. Once we say that, we have come to the end of discussion right?

Now, who named Ife,Ile Ife?

Who was Osun?

What does Awori means?

What are the proof of your claims?

When you can't defend your own claims, you start running here and there laying allegations, its slavery to reduce your story to West African that's what I'm saying. Without that name, you wont have had a name to describe yourself by right now.
You’re a 🤡? Who named your bloody Israel that you wish you were from? You have no heritage outside west Africa. Maybe be better and stop being so useless and create something to be proud of

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Re: Yoruba Hebrew Heritage (End Of Discussion) by BabaRamota1980: 1:46am On Mar 18
Absolutesuccess, there are plenty of us who do not have a quarter of the knowledge and information you share on Yoruba origin and antiquity. It is refreshing to read your input. I followed the link you shared to quora.com, I could not believe that someone, not even a Nigerian, had taken such interest into Yoruba and Biblical duplicates. So many of us enjoy learning from your posts. However, it is irritating when you get sidetracked and chased after something else of no consequence. Your opponents know hot to derail your thoughts, all they do is easily raise a challenge and get you off tracks. Do you have the discipline to ignore all contributions that are non-supportive of your message and mission? If anyone believe we arr one with Asians, they should open their own thread with a topic to share what they know. It is not your position to banter with them, just act like you didnt see what they posted and continue with your message. Not hard to do at all.
Re: Yoruba Hebrew Heritage (End Of Discussion) by absoluteSuccess: 7:24am On Mar 18
NaijaPrince18:

You’re a 🤡? Who named your bloody Israel that you wish you were from? You have no heritage outside west Africa. Maybe be better and stop being so useless and create something to be proud of

Thanks for your encouragements.

This is my path in life sir.

Thanks.
Re: Yoruba Hebrew Heritage (End Of Discussion) by absoluteSuccess: 7:32am On Mar 18
BabaRamota1980:
Absolutesuccess, there are plenty of us who do not have a quarter of the knowledge and information you share on Yoruba origin and antiquity. It is refreshing to read your input. I followed the link you shared to quora.com, I could not believe that someone, not even a Nigerian, had taken such interest into Yoruba and Biblical duplicates. So many of us enjoy learning from your posts. However, it is irritating when you get sidetracked and chased after something else of no consequence. Your opponents know hot to derail your thoughts, all they do is easily raise a challenge and get you off tracks. Do you have the discipline to ignore all contributions that are non-supportive of your message and mission? If anyone believe we arr one with Asians, they should open their own thread with a topic to share what they know. It is not your position to banter with them, just act like you didnt see what they posted and continue with your message. Not hard to do at all.

Very true dear brother.

From now, I promise never to respond to what does not matter to what I am saying.

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Re: Yoruba Hebrew Heritage (End Of Discussion) by absoluteSuccess: 8:39am On Mar 18
I think its exactly 24 years ago today when I picked the bible and came about the story I shared at the opening page. I thought I will do a good job of finishing off the write up on my findings right there within 6 month LOL, it has eventually shaped my career. I did a book about it anyway, and I publish it as my first book under a pseudo, that was 2007. My first book. To God be the glory,

Let me get through with the oriki, for the benefit of my friends here and the generations to come. Then anytime I also find something shareable, I will surely drop it off here, may we have longevity by the grace of God, but Iku o d'ojo arun o dosu, so that whoever come across the post can also run with it. Most of the enemies of this research just as Babaramota has noted are not Yoruba.

Iresa:

Now if we observe closely, we'll notice that the record mention race in the oriki:

"omo baba dudu eti Ekoro." Son of the father of the black at the neighbourhood of Ekron. i can assure us that if we seek further, we will come about another variant that says, "Iresa dudu l'egbon, pupa l'aburo". This is Yoruba telling of the origin of the races as springing from that particular corner of the world where race seems to diverge in the near east.

In another instance we have the same oriki as "Ara Aresa, omo Obadu Elekoro". This means, people of one who slice the lagoon, the son of the black king, owner of Ekron. Therefore, Iresa is the verb form of Aresa. The same can be observe in Awori and Odu Iwori Meji: Awori is the pronoun form of Iwori. The import of this is, if we interpret a word, the interpretation must be validated by a substitute.

The Three Icons Of Ancient Yoruba

Now in the hall of fame of the Yoruba, there were three iconic characters, namely Olugbon, Aresa and Owarangun aga. All goodies trace back to these people.

Laye Olugbon, mo da b'orun meta,
Laye Aresa, modaborun mefa...

Another variant:

Ko baje l'ori Olugbon, kobaje lori Aresa...

These people were real, they lived and they were the most remembered of all Yoruba antiquity heroes. We can only pin them down to places where reference to their names survive, and to enrich our collections, we have to find more fixed oral records associated with them in the annals of Yoruba where something similar to their totem or memorial is mentioned.

In that instance, we have Olugbon, this we can trace to the tradition of Ile-Igbon, then we can interpret every of their oral traditions with scientific approach, this means seeing things a bit difference than the custodians of the tradition as to time frame and place names.

Time frame: Some of the traditions to be found in Yoruba liturgy are as old as the Hammurabi codes, but it kept being updated till it got to our time. People did not became wise yesterday, our ancestors inclusive. What we have therefore is an improvement of several codes that has been coming from "Babylon" and now domicile in our tongue and in our time.

Oft we look back and if any folk tradition catches our fancy, we assume it was coined by a cunning wordsmith few decades back. That may not be the case in most instances, the Yoruba has transverse many lands and they do carry the tales of other lands along in their tales.

Place names: Ancient Yoruba are masters in perpetuating place names, think of any place name in the Levant, you will have a replica in Yoruba. The beautiful part of this is, the place name comes with anecdotals that help you understand its source. Take for instance, Ijebu. If I want to speak of Ijebu and wouldn't want to mention it by name, I might resort to poetry.

Not oriki per se but "oriki orile". In that instance, Ijebu would be "Ode Ajagba-lura" and what does that supposed to mean? History, exploration. It means "plains of the [people] who circumnavigated the globe". This is what I mean by scientific: "gba" in that cluster stands for "a spherical world" a ja gba lu ra. Agba Ye, world of the living. Agbanla-Aye, the great world of the living, agba, spinner, cycling.

We inherited the Yoruba language, some of our ancient ancestors were high achievers. Till date, we do not have the temerity of breaking Yoruba historical coinages, but we still have them around anyway. However, we could do not so much because most handlers of our records and traditions are mediocre like the rest of us, we only fancy "juju" most and decoding historical intels from ages still elude us.

Then, we have Aresa.

[one hour difference: expertise comes with persistence and experience.]
Re: Yoruba Hebrew Heritage (End Of Discussion) by BabaRamota1980: 11:35am On Mar 18
absoluteSuccess:


Very true dear brother.

From now, I promise never to respond to what does not matter to what I am saying.

Thumbs up bro!
Re: Yoruba Hebrew Heritage (End Of Discussion) by BabaRamota1980: 12:01pm On Mar 18
I am not conversant in the verses of Odu, but Isn't there also an Odu which cites Olugbon, Aresa and Orangun as the three wise men called upon to take gifts and pay obeisance to the arrival of a new born infant, whereupon they raised objections, until an Awo divined and revealed to them how to approach the challenge? They ended up visiting and felicitating with the new baby in humility, and as is typical when a sacrifice has been performed, their ways were forever smoothened. The challenge here is overcoming ego, and the lesson is humbling oneself irrespective of situation. I know this kinda jumbled things up but my attempt is to support your take on the three legends - Olugbon, Aresa and Orangun.
Re: Yoruba Hebrew Heritage (End Of Discussion) by macof(m): 12:08am On Mar 19
NaijaPrince18:

We are not west African now? 😂😂😂😂. Just stop posting please. It’s embarrassing. Please tell me what the root of awori is? Is it not ife? Which is Osun state not Israel.
I’m not the one obsessing over Jews. You clearly feel inferior to them. Jews are middle easterners not Africans or Europeans
You are talking with a mad man
An actual mad man that bites people on the streets

What a pity to a wasted life

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Re: Yoruba Hebrew Heritage (End Of Discussion) by absoluteSuccess: 2:56am On Mar 20
BabaRamota1980:
I am not conversant in the verses of Odu, but Isn't there also an Odu which cites Olugbon, Aresa and Orangun as the three wise men called upon to take gifts and pay obeisance to the arrival of a new born infant, whereupon they raised objections, until an Awo divined and revealed to them how to approach the challenge? They ended up visiting and felicitating with the new baby in humility, and as is typical when a sacrifice has been performed, their ways were forever smoothened. The challenge here is overcoming ego, and the lesson is humbling oneself irrespective of situation. I know this kinda jumbled things up but my attempt is to support your take on the three legends - Olugbon, Aresa and Orangun.

Sorry I've not answered for a while, a little busy.

Now touching the point you raised as to Ifa and "the three wise men" so to speak, there's a way to go about it. This story reminds of the nativity story of the new testament, it may be a product of few centuries ago, and a good example of "Jesus Romance" in Ifa.

Reason? We don't have an Ifa title for this. What box can we check as representing this story? Secondly, the song on Olugbon and Aresa talked about the lifetime of these people. it never made them contemporaries. Therefore, we can't make them contemporaries ib our days too.

The singer only use them as metric of success as inspired by what has been said of the time these people lived. The song only time-traveled, it never meant the composer lived through the epochs. Compare this from Adebayo Faleti:

"laye Abiodun lafigba wonwo, laye Aole la dadi kale, laye Arogangan l'opolo gbode. Oba peinda tan ko m'opolo lo. Abiodun, O ba pada wa o waa j'oba!"

The three were not "kings" at the same time frame in history. The chanter was not their contemporary either. Therefore, even when we have to rely on oral traditions and draw conclusions from Ifa, we have to go for the "actual oral records". The ones we can check and cross check.

It's a difficult deal anyway, but we are not trying to solve all problems known to exist, just using few of known problem and options to seek more answers within what we have and probably discover new things along the way. It's a hard business, let's keep trying our best.

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Re: Yoruba Hebrew Heritage (End Of Discussion) by absoluteSuccess: 5:52pm On Mar 24
Yoruba Oral tradition versus Yoruba Oral Records

There's a sharp contrast between Yoruba oral traditions and Yoruba oral records. Our fathers says bomode o ba tan, on lati ba aroba, aroba ni baba itan. What this statement portends is simple: "if a youngster miss the epoch in an historical reference, it's a must he had legends about the same epoch. Legend is the father of history." History cannot be described beyond such words in a preliterate society.

It's the duty of the youngster to know how to separate legend from history. It's not the duty of legend to separate itself from history for the good of the child. Therefore, Yoruba intellectual culture clearly set us up to research. To do this takes keen expertise and allowing the fact to speak, rather than speak for the fact. Yoruba legends derive from people trying to speak for the records.

There are instances where people speaks for the records and rare instances of people allowing the record to speak for itself. In Yoruba, one tradition can be a good source of information, but the same information can be interpreted wrongly during its final explanations. Let's see how this can play out.

Consider the song that talk about the elephant climbing uphills and thereafter, its a good instance of Yoruba imponderables that often confuse the intellect, making the analyst choose wrongly:

"Erin g'oke alo o, erin goke alo,
Agunfon, erin g'oke alo."

We have two animals named in the above song. If we are to interpret what we have, it would be telling the giraffe what the elephant has done. However, what would have warranted the name of giraffe in the eulogy of the elephant? At that point, we may have to reconsider the text of the song more carefully and restrict our view to the subject in question. Doing that gives the very clue we want.

For that, we'll be able to filter out the noise and isolate the true secret. Then the song can be rendered afresh. That would help us see clearly what the text is saying: "agunfon" was our immediate consideration because we are talking about animal and another related animal seems to drop in and fit the narrative so well. But that's the wrong option, giraffe was not the intent of the composers.

Agunfon simply says 'triumph horn', such that when the elephant climbs uphill, being a massive wildlife, it might horn through its trunk to ease a sigh of relieve. That to a relativist is an elephant's "call of triumph". So, although the feedback completely rhymes with another wildlife of massive size, yet, we are to restrict ourselves to the mood of the text, not to the most convenient interpretation.

How does this apply in Yoruba history?

We have come to a kind of wrong interpretation on the history of the Ijesha. It says, "ijesha o ridi isana, ile ni baba won tii muna r'oko". But that's off logic. The point here is, the Ijesha could not make campfire, they would rather take a kindle of the fire with them to the camp. But that's very wrong. What's the proof? How did they kindle the fire they took to the farm in the first instance?

We are all susceptible to Yoruba traditions, that's the aroba. What's next is to sit back and analyse, then find out more duplicates of the same "statement" in relative texts and we might see clearly that we were given aroba and its like the cyst that forms over the true history. That's why I often says that we are below the IQ-wrung of the wordsmiths that coined some historical words in Yoruba language.

Whatever might have been intended in that piece of information elude us until we could decode whatever the underlying enigma is. Nevertheless, we do have a good start as always with aroba. Let me say this: "Mo di apaadi feregede tii siwaju onifonna, iku mi o ya kankan". If you ever take fire from the village to the farm, you will say amen to that. Here is the little I have to share on this thread.

God bless us all, end of discussion. More knowledge for us to better understand our world.

Ire owo yoyo, ire omo seese.

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Re: Yoruba Hebrew Heritage (End Of Discussion) by absoluteSuccess: 9:19am On Apr 10
While interpreting "asokere" on the other thread, I had an epiphany of some sort.

J.F. Odunjo, one of Yoruba's intelligentsia and great starter of the Yoruba intellectual culture in our time had featured great many stories of the Yoruba folk culture. One of such is the proverb, "eni gbe oku aparo, o gbe aapon". i can't vividly remember all the details anyway, it's been long.

My input is this: it would be very impossible to find out the true meaning of the proverb except we come to understand what the word Aparo itself means. Now what exactly is the aapon in the carcass or dead partridge? This is the underlying meaning: if we understand the meaning of the term aparo, what would it be?

That's the epiphany. I somewhat believe certain Yoruba words are utter simple to understand, and when I have to think about the word, it come across as a-pa-ro. In this instance, the word simply means "kill-to-worry". Now if by chance you think in the same direction as the person whose name for the bird gain currency in Yoruba language, you will have a lot of trouble if you kill the bird.

You will rather abandon it on the narrow farm path for another unfortunate fellow to pick it up. If that one should do as you have feared, he has become another burden bearer. The aapon might have nothing to do with the carcass of the bird, but the psychoanalysis of the people who would be confused by the cheer intelligence of the original wordsmith whose word became the name for the bird.

here is the drift: aparo means "something to worry about if you kill it". What now happens when you find it dead on your path? What could have happened to the original guy that killed it? What would also happen to you and all that. I think the actual "aapon" is the burden you have to bear if you know the meaning of the word "aparo" and you read meanings to it. That seems to be the stress.

however, wisdom says that toju tiye laparo fii nriran: what this means is that the partridge can see with both its feathers and its eyes, so, you can't actually walk up and trap it as you would have wanted to do. So, you have to think about it if it is that bird you will like to kill. you are not in the same level of smartness and speed of memory. So, think about (something else) than to kill the partridge.

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