^^
Ur last line is what irks me about AW and some of his die hard fans. (dont take it personal )

I admit that we cannot do anything about players getting injured but I bet that if we do a small research and read NL pages for just about this period of the year for the past few years, its the same thing we keep saying, i.e. maybe when injured players return things will change. I can't blame AW that our players get injured (unless there's something they put in their food at Emirates) but I will blame him because season in season out, AW hardly does anything about it! Its not rocket science if everybody else sees it except AW and his fans.

I don't want to bring out an argument out of this because again if we chack NL Arsenal threads for this period in past years, its a repetition of the same arguments so no point. Our season can almost be perfectly modelled. Do well in first half, raise hopes then players get injured and Arsene refuses to do anything about it. Injured players cost us matches and by the time they return, its too late to catch up with rest of the group.

In the past when it was only United to catch up with, it wasn't too bad, then Chelsea cam on board and we dropped even further. Now City and Spurs (of all teams!) have joined the fray. Hopefully, Chelsea and Liverpool won't get it right manager wise . Its the only reason we are still even dreaming of 4th place

duduspace:

Top 4 is doable but might need Chelsea to fumble this season like Tottenham did in 06/07 as I don't expect Tottenham to fumble. I hope some people are already preparing the Lasagne for the final match. 
Too many things changing about the team at present and difficult to call until we have most of the injured back. Success is built on stability. Not a stellar season by any means.

They both fumbled this weekend but we still couldnt take advantage of that.  

waiting for injured players to come back, we might find ourselves down to 7th position before they do.

Arsenal have now lost 7 games dis season without 15 games to go, too bad

duduspace:

but might need Chelsea to fumble this season like Tottenham did in 06/07

Classic answer!

Kay-Dee:

They both fumbled this weekend but we still couldnt take advantage of that.

Muki, Where are you and how are you doing naa

duduspace:

Top 4 is doable but might need Chelsea to fumble this season like Tottenham did in 06/07 as I don't expect Tottenham to fumble.

05/06.
You now add misinformation to your list of gaffes.Concentrate,boy.

Dadubule, Wenger o Oya dadubule, Shidioke

[flash=500,400]http://www.youtube.com/watch=/v/WfLrho6awWY[/flash]

coded guy:

Classic answer!

Muki, Where are you and how are you doing naa

go hug wet transformer

proudly9ja:

^^
Ur last line is what irks me about AW and some of his die hard fans. (dont take it personal )

[b]I admit that we cannot do anything about players getting injured but I bet that if we do a small research and read NL pages for just about this period of the year for the past few years, [/b]its the same thing we keep saying, i.e. maybe when injured players return things will change. I can't blame AW that our players get injured (unless there's something they put in their food at Emirates) but I will blame him because season in season out, AW hardly does anything about it! Its not rocket science if everybody else sees it except AW and his fans.

I don't want to bring out an argument out of this because again if we chack NL Arsenal threads for this period in past years, its a repetition of the same arguments so no point. Our season can almost be perfectly modelled. Do well in first half, raise hopes then players get injured and Arsene refuses to do anything about it. Injured players cost us matches and by the time they return, its too late to catch up with rest of the group.

In the past when it was only United to catch up with, it wasn't too bad, then Chelsea cam on board and we dropped even further. Now City and Spurs (of all teams!) have joined the fray. Hopefully, Chelsea and Liverpool won't get it right manager wise  . Its the only reason we are still even dreaming of 4th place

That is exactly why some people are paid to manage and some pay to comment.  

Arsene will rightly get the flak and will hold up his hands he made a mistake yesterday. While I can understand why he may want to substitute Ox, it was wrong and slam out of order.  But over and above that, anyone who goes out now to boast of Arsenal as being capable of anything beyond a top 4 finish would be in need of having their head examined. That has been my point all season long and it hasn't changed.  The same set of people who were saying Wenger out in August/September cos according to them we would be relegated later kept quiet when things turned and have gone overboard again at the current reverse. That kind of short termism is not what any sustainable success is built on.
For me, Arsenal's usual yo-yo season is not only about there being more competition, it is more about money.
Other clubs around you cannot continue to spend more than you YoY (Transfer and wages combined) and you expect a manager to continue to repeat the same miracles every year.

Last year, my projections about where Arsenal would be was premised on us keeping (at least) one of Nasri and Cesc and adding the likes of Gervinho or Hazard to the team while getting rid of the Arshavins and Rosickys but that didn't happen and I personally believe its ridiculous and unfair to put all the blame for that on Arsene. We paid the price in terms of performance to bring those 2 to a certain level (and burnt players like Denilson and Vela in the process) but how did that end? Arab money ensured we didn't reap the rewards and now it seems we are stuck in transition again bringing up the likes of Ramsey/Wilshere/Coquelin/Ox and of course we'll pay for it as they develop.
If you've noticed, Arsene himself hasn't been bullish about this season like he  was last season? IMO within the club, there is a already an acceptance that there will be a stepping backwards before the club can move forward again. How far backward the club needs to step is what I don't think anyone can be sure of but I'd like to think it a minimum top 4 finish but the board IMO are already relaxing that requirement.

That is the core of my arguments with Debo and most on here.

It is my opinion that Wenger has largely surpassed the expectations of the Board since the Stadium project started and will do so again if he makes top 4 this season. [b]Changing the manager changes nothing if the board's strategy stays the same. [/b]What you can hope to get is either another Genius hamstrung by the same limitations Arsene currently is who will either do exactly what Arsene has done (but likely without the pressure and ill feeling that has built up for Arsene over time) and ultimately see the youth system come to fruition or more likely IMO make even more mistakes in the market and deliver even worse results.

Up till this season, the complaint has been about collapsing while being in a position to win the PL but this season, early signs are that we won't even make top 4. So, while most people think it should be better, I can assure you it can get a whole lot worse.

To believe there is a silver bullet out there that will resolve this is a fallacy IMO, most things in life are either solved by time(and a well thought out process), money or an healthy combo of both. Rooney's previously receeding hairline is a very good example.  
Money we don't seem to have or want to throw at it (and those who are throwing money at it do have their own problems e.g Chelsea and Liverpool), the board probably feel they need time to make the youth system work but most fans seem to want nothing of such. Time will tell what gives.
This is a good read about how the club spends money and it is not written by a Wenger apologist http://angryofislington.com/2012/01/19/arsenals-finances-the-plain-truth/
And its okay if you think I'm a die hard Wenger fan, you most likely have good reasons to think so but that doesn't mean yu're right.  

StarBoard:

05/06.
You now add misinformation  to your list of gaffes.Concentrate,boy.

Thank you very much for the correction boy scout, I'm sure you count it an affirmation of your assumed genius.  

duduspace:

Arsene will rightly get the flak and will hold up his hands he made a mistake yesterday. While I can understand why he may want to substitute Ox, it was wrong and slam out of order.

The fact is that Wenger has probably destroyed his little remaining goodwill with that idiotic substitution. It’s made worse by his arrogance talking about 50,000 substitutions in his career. It’s like someone killing someone in a road accident and saying I’ve driven for 30 years so I can’t be questioned.

For me, Arsenal's usual yo-yo season is not only about there being more competition, it is more about money.
Other clubs around you cannot continue to spend more than you YoY (Transfer and wages combined) and you expect a manager to continue to repeat the same miracles every year.

Please tell me how much Spurs has spent compared to Arsenal on wages + transfer in the last 2 seasons before making this regular excuse.

We are simply penny wise pound foolish and unable to leverage our name and reputation to get the money we need. Liverpool that is in 7th place just signed a £25m a YEAR deal with a kit maker - that’s enough to buy one world class player each season WITHOUT SELLING anybody. Arsenal continue dithering and wasting time while others find ways to improve.

IMO within the club, there is a already an acceptance that there will be a stepping backwards before the club can move forward again. How far backward the club needs to step is what I don't think anyone can be sure of but I'd like to think it a minimum top 4 finish but the board IMO are already relaxing that requirement.

More nonsense - the team has been in a backward step for 6 years. . . .it is unreasonable and patently insane to continue thinking that this strategy will pay off - it WILL NEVER WORK. If Wenger with all his intelligence is too dim to see that, then he should be sacked immediately. If he does know this but is just feeding lies publicly, then he is an enemy within the gates for refusing to show up the board’s idiocy. Either way he is an integral part of the problem at Arsenal FC now.

duduspace:

It is my opinion that Wenger has largely surpassed the expectations of the Board since the Stadium project started and will do so again if he makes top 4 this season. Changing the manager changes nothing if the board's strategy stays the same.

While the latter statement is true, it is quite ridiculous to imply that Wenger is not in full agreement (if not the actual proponent) of the current policy. The board live off Wenger’s ability to keep the team in the top 4 so I daresay that if he goes and says we NEED to spend more or I walk, they will have more impetus to sort out the commercial deals for one and get more revenue. He himself is satisfied with the control he has - the board are too weak to do anything and he is too powerful to be removed by the weak board as things stand.

. . . and ultimately see the youth system come to fruition or more likely IMO make even more mistakes in the market and deliver even worse results.

Stop making a phool of yourself - this youth system WILL NEVER WORK. It CAN NEVER WORK. Barcelona with a ‘youth system’ spent over £20m on Alexis to improve their side without losing anything, while Arsenal’s squad is lower in quality than last season - who is fooling who?

So, while most people think it should be better, I can assure you it can get a whole lot worse.

This is the thinking of losers - yes it can get worse so don’t change anything.
Why persist with an obviously FAILING strategy? At this rate, it is DEFINITELY going to get worse if we continue in the way we are going.

Money we don't seem to have or want to throw at it (and those who are throwing money at it do have their own problems e.g Chelsea and Liverpool), the board probably feel they need time to make the youth system work but most fans seem to want nothing of such. Time will tell what gives.

As I said previously, the only language this current board/management understands is disaster and absolute disgrace. If they don’t change things by themselves, the weakness in season tickets come May will be unprecedented - ultimately when the CL income is gone AND fans walk away, the board will finally see sense that things need to change. Since they are too weak to do anything, fans will eventually cause the change. . . but at what cost?

For goodness sake, why not rip up these stup!d deals and get commercial sponsorship to bring in an extra £20m a year or more which when ADDED to (not replaced by) the youth system? If we don’t do that, we clearly will continue in the current downward spiral.

I’m done with epistles. . . . .it’s clear what needs to be done, now it’s over to Wenger and Gazidis. You either let time pass you by or you adapt. Change or die.

duduspace:


Thank you very much for the correction boy scout, I'm sure you count it an affirmation of your assumed genius.  

My pleasure,nitwit.
Keep up the mis-information and wrong analysis as well as the wrong projections.

StarBoard:

My pleasure,nitwit.
Keep up the mis-information and wrong analysis as well as the wrong projections.

Thank you very much dimbulb. If my posts bother you, you don't exactly have to read them. I'm sure the use of the scroll keys isn't beyond the comprehension of an empty egghead.  

debosky:

While the latter statement is true, it is quite ridiculous to imply that Wenger is not in full agreement (if not the actual proponent) of the current policy. The board live off Wenger’s ability to keep the team in the top 4 so I daresay that if he goes and says we NEED to spend more or I walk, they will have more impetus to sort out the commercial deals for one and get more revenue. He himself is satisfied with the control he has - the board are too weak to do anything and he is too powerful to be removed by the weak board as things stand.

Food for thought, I don't necessarily concur but well thought out and time will tell what the real situation is. I read the updated version of "Arsenal: The making of a modern day superclub" during the summer and I got to learn of so many things I wasn't aware of previously.
Most people aren't aware of this when they blame Arsene for not buying CR9 and Ribery but what most people aren't aware of is that even the purchase of RVP was put forward by 6 months at the time cos Arsenal couldn't come up with just about 2.5m after we bought Reyes. I mean, its hard to believe that was how tight money was in the club at the time. With our posturing in the press, you would never know.

debosky:

Stop making a phool of yourself - this youth system WILL NEVER WORK. It CAN NEVER WORK. Barcelona with a ‘youth system’ spent over £20m on Alexis to improve their side without losing anything, while Arsenal’s squad is lower in quality than last season - who is fooling who?

Barcelona didn't get to where they were in a day, for long they were in the shadow of RM. I agree they weren't trophyless through out but then the environments aren't exactly the same. Who knew Manchester City would become what they've become now some season's back? and isn't both Chelsea and Manure currently struggling to come to terms with a higher spending team?
It is my opinion that Arsenal will reach a tipping point someday, that day I honestly do not know.
I also don't believe in using the word NEVER. I prefer the questions HOW LONG? and HOW MUCH? and I think they are more applicable here. 

debosky:

This is the thinking of losers - yes it can get worse so don’t change anything.
Why persist with an obviously FAILING strategy? At this rate, it is DEFINITELY going to get worse if we continue in the way we are going.

I didn't say don't change anything. For all we know, Arsene will make it easy and walk someday rendering all our postulations irrelevant. All I'm saying is that from what I see, it could be a whole lot worse particularly in an era where money is speaking loudly and we don't seem to have that money. Who knows? there might be a genius somewhere out there who will win a PL on West Bromwich's budget.
There is however a reason for the old saying that the Devil known is better than the angel unknown. Personally, I see no reason to go against that wise saying in this instance cos I'm yet to see such a genius. I love Arsenal too much to gamble on such.
By the way Debo, I consider you to be more conservative than I am. 

debosky:

As I said previously, the only language this current board/management understands is disaster and absolute disgrace. If they don’t change things by themselves, the weakness in season tickets come May will be unprecedented - ultimately when the CL income is gone AND fans walk away, the board will finally see sense that things need to change. Since they are too weak to do anything, fans will eventually cause the change. . . but at what cost?

More food for thought, let's wait and see. As long as you and I remain fans I don't expect much to change. I'm not planning on renouncing my membership just yet, are you? 
If we go Europa, it will definitely affect us but Mr Chairman is already saying they've budgeted for it. Lets wait to hear from Mr. Kroenke, he might hold a different opinion.

debosky:

For goodness sake, why not rip up these stup!d deals and get commercial sponsorship to bring in an extra £20m a year or more which when ADDED to (not replaced by) the youth system? If we don’t do that, we clearly will continue in the current downward spiral.

I’m done with epistles. . . . .it’s clear what needs to be done, now it’s over to Wenger and Gazidis. You either let time pass you by or you adapt. Change or die.

I keep on asking myself that same question but personally I know little about these deals but what the experts in the club say is that they have to run their course. Whether its Arsenal being honourable or whether they are legally obligated to see them out I honestly do not know but think its the latter. Liverpool have not performed better than us in recent times and are looking to a second season in Europa but their new deal is reported to even top Manure's.

proudly9ja:

^^
Ur last line is what irks me about AW and some of his die hard fans. (dont take it personal )

I admit that we cannot do anything about players getting injured but I bet that if we do a small research and read NL pages for just about this period of the year for the past few years, its the same thing we keep saying, i.e. maybe when injured players return things will change. I can't blame AW that our players get injured (unless there's something they put in their food at Emirates) but I will blame him because season in season out, AW hardly does anything about it! Its not rocket science if everybody else sees it except AW and his fans.

I don't want to bring out an argument out of this because again if we chack NL Arsenal threads for this period in past years, its a repetition of the same arguments so no point. Our season can almost be perfectly modelled. Do well in first half, raise hopes then players get injured and Arsene refuses to do anything about it. Injured players cost us matches and by the time they return, its too late to catch up with rest of the group.

In the past when it was only United to catch up with, it wasn't too bad, then Chelsea cam on board and we dropped even further. Now City and Spurs (of all teams!) have joined the fray. Hopefully, Chelsea and Liverpool won't get it right manager wise . Its the only reason we are still even dreaming of 4th place

well said!
i am even spazzed out to talk about arsenal's failings. . . . .i am too fatigued to be repeating the same nonsense every year
it has been the same ish for the past 7 years now. . . . . .wenger is a simpleton - too stubborn for his own good!
the 8-2 match was much more competitive than the game last night. . . . .that united weren't 5-0 up in the first half was a miracle with the number of times nani mauled djourou.

There is absolutely no comparison with Barca. Even at their ‘worst’ they continued to renew their squad in TWO ways - youth and buying experience. That we think we are super geniuses who can do something no one else has been able to do is the ultimate sign of hubris. Until we move away from trying to do the impossible, failure is virtually guaranteed.

Who knew Manchester City would become what they've become now some season's back? and isn't both Chelsea and Manure currently struggling to come to terms with a higher spending team?

As long as they continue to spend they have a chance - we are a negative spending team trying to compete - it can NEVER work.

I also don't believe in using the word NEVER. I prefer the questions HOW LONG? and HOW MUCH? and I think they are more applicable here.

The ‘early mover’ advantage that helped it work in the past with the Anelkas of this world is gone forever. Every club has scouts everywhere, every club has youth set ups.

Who knows? there might be a genius somewhere out there who will win a PL on West Bromwich's budget.

It is impossible in the EPL - it may be slightly possible in the Bundesliga because you have only one dominant side that needs to mess up for that to happen. In England you need 4 or 5 sides to mess up.

More food for thought, let's wait and see. As long as you and I remain fans I don't expect much to change. I'm not planning on renouncing my membership just yet, are you?

If you think we need to wait and see then you’re deluding yourself. If you’ve attended Arsenal games recently on general sale like I have, then you’ll understand. Almost every week I get an email telling me there are unsold tickets available for Arsenal games - LEAGUE GAMES not just CC and FA cup. I expect this to get worse as the season progresses as disillusionment sets in again. If it’s that easy to pick and choose games to attend, why buy a season ticket? After seeing the debacle of last summer, fans will wait and see if the club acts before renewing. With rumoured price increases, expect many more to forget about it as well.

debosky:

There is absolutely no comparison with Barca. Even at their ‘worst’ they continued to renew their squad in TWO ways - youth and buying experience. That we think we are super geniuses who can do something no one else has been able to do is the ultimate sign of hubris. Until we move away from trying to do the impossible, failure is virtually guaranteed.

I don't think anyone would want to stay in the zone of not spending perpetually, like I said, the critical questions are HOW MUCH? and HOW LONG? when will the club determine that a tipping point has been reached? I personally think that was what Cesc was alluding to in one of his interviews when he was about leaving. At some point, the club will have to make a statement about not losing 'key' players. Wenger has paid lip service to it but so far has not been able to maintain that stance.
His whole body language during Nasri and Cesc's issue was of someone who didn't want them to go. Have you forgotten at a time he even said Nasri would wind down his contract and become a free agent?

debosky:

As long as they continue to spend they have a chance - we are a negative spending team trying to compete - it can NEVER work.

I don't think there is an intention to remain in a negative spending zone in perpetuity, that would be insane.

debosky:

The ‘early mover’ advantage that helped it work in the past with the Anelkas of this world is gone forever. Every club has scouts everywhere, every club has youth set ups.
It is impossible in the EPL - it may be slightly possible in the Bundesliga because you have only one dominant side that needs to mess up for that to happen. In England you need 4 or 5 sides to mess up.

Very true, but the fact that the club still has a net positive income on player transfers suggests its still working, definitely it is not a workable long term solution for a team with consistent title winning aspirations.
However, the club continues to insist on a self sustaining policy, I personally think they are prepared for whatever may come of it and that might not be good news for a lot of people.

debosky:

If you think we need to wait and see then you’re deluding yourself. If you’ve attended Arsenal games recently on general sale like I have, then you’ll understand. Almost every week I get an email telling me there are unsold tickets available for Arsenal games - LEAGUE GAMES not just CC and FA cup. I expect this to get worse as the season progresses as disillusionment sets in again. If it’s that easy to pick and choose games to attend, why buy a season ticket? After seeing the debacle of last summer, fans will wait and see if the club acts before renewing. With rumoured price increases, expect many more to forget about it as well.

Let's wait and see, more seats were actually made available for general sale after consultation with AISA on how to improve the atmosphere which supporters complained was not loud enough in supporting the team and it was taken from the allocation to season tickets. If that decision is deemed to be a failure, the board will simply make it available to the Season's ticket waiting list.
Only problem is that we will see more empty seats at the stadium which have been paid for by some rich people who don't mind missing the occasional game (when things are tough like now  ) but the club will take minimal hit in finances as most of their revenue come from Club level boxes anyway which some people have already paid up for the next 3 years. Even after 2 seasons out of UCL, Liverpool are still able to fill their stadium so its not the disaster yu're imagining it to be.
Mind you, I'm also a red member and I do recall some mails earlier during the summer of discontent about available tickets for games like Swansea at home but that largely disappeared when results improved.

The club got through delivering a 450m+ stadium and managed fine, i don't think a 25m hit for a year (The club makes roughly 100m per annum from gate takings and I'm assuming a worst case scenario of 25% of fans staying away, something I think is very unlikely) would be too difficult for them to handle if they can get the team back in the UCL at the first time of asking. If there are people who know how to cut their coats according to their material I think its this board.

I'm also waiting to see the effect of some so called secondary deals on our finances this year when the mid year results come in.

duduspace:
I don't think there is an intention to remain in a negative spending zone in perpetuity, that would be insane.

By the time the sluggards at Arsenal FC realise that they should spend it may be too late. That’s the problem you have when you fall behind so far that the gap is insurmountable - a stitch in time and all that. . .

Very true, but the fact that the club still has a net positive income on player transfers suggests its still working, definitely it is not a workable long term solution for a team with consistent title winning aspirations.

It is NOT working - that we haven’t won anything in 6 years is sufficient proof that it isn’t working.

but the club will take minimal hit in finances as most of their revenue come from Club level boxes anyway which some people have already paid up for the next 3 years.

This is a lie - the club makes only 35% of takings from the club level boxes - if there is a significant revolt the club will suffer significantly.

Even after 2 seasons out of UCL, Liverpool are still able to fill their stadium so its not the disaster yu're imagining it to be.

Liverpool tickets are much cheaper than Arsenal’s - so don’t forget that.

i don't think a 25m hit for a year (The club makes roughly 100m per annum from gate takings and I'm assuming a worst case scenario of 25% of fans staying away, something I think is very unlikely) would be too difficult for them to handle if they can get the team back in the UCL at the first time of asking. If there are people who know how to cut their coats according to their material I think its this board.

The hit would be £55m - £30m CL money and the loss from fans staying away. It’s going to be VERY messy if we fail to qualify, given we’ve had numerous opportunities to do the necessary and fix our squad.

debosky:

The hit would be £55m - £30m CL money and the loss from fans staying away. It’s going to be VERY messy if we fail to qualify, given we’ve had numerous opportunities to do the necessary and fix our squad.

what's going to be messy about arsenal not qualifying for champions league?
it won't stop the fans from attending normal league games and europa league are for the big boys these days.
there's no way in hell arsenal would finish in the top 4 this season.

coogar:

what's going to be messy about arsenal not qualifying for champions league?

Ask the folk that were screaming at Wenger yesterday, or the ones that started staying away earlier on in the season.

Ask RVP whether he'll re-sign and then you'll start getting an idea.

debosky:

Ask the folk that were screaming at Wenger yesterday, or the ones that started staying away earlier on in the season.

Ask RVP whether he'll re-sign and then you'll start getting an idea.

van persie would resign. . . . he cannot go anywhere else. . .he would be 29 this year!
as for the fans, there must be millions of people on the waiting list trying to catch the emiraati experience.

one thing is a fact - arsenal have been outspent by their rivals. it's impossible for arsenal to compete with chelsea, man city, tottenham and united.
with those 4 clubs occupying the 4 spots in the champions league, what else do you want wenger to do?

arsenal's net spend in the past 5 yrs does not match the positions they have achieved in those years.
in truth, arsenal should be finishing 10th on the table. i don't know if this is wenger's problem of not wanting to spend or the club is broke!

debosky:

Please tell me how much Spurs has spent compared to Arsenal on wages + transfer in the last 2 seasons before making this regular excuse.

Since you asked for it, here it comes 
I did a little oversabi and actually reviewed the Top 6 as presently constituted (I'm not sure who is 6th in Liverpool or Newcastle). 
I also did for 2003 to 2011 rather than the last 2 seasons as asked for two major reasons:

1. I couldn't isolate the data for the past 2 seasons
2. I believe Arsene should be judged over as large a period of his tenure as possible (Choosing to judge him in the long term when comparing Arsenal to Manure and then judging him in the short term with Tottenham who had a solitary UCL appearance in 14 years is rigging in my opinion) 

Last reported Wage Bill (For the 2010/2011 season)

City      £173.9m
Chelsea   £172.5m
Manure    £152.9m
Liverpool £124.4m  (Don't have current data but in the previous year when our wage bill was 111, theirs was 114)
Arsenal   £124.4m
Tottenham   £91 m



Net Transfer Spending 2003 - 2011

Chelsea    £443,500,000
City       £425,145,00
Liverpool  £136,400,000
Tottenham  £113,150,000
Manure      £90,550,000
Arsenal    -£24,270,000


Net Transfer Spending per Season  2003 - 2011

Chelsea   £55,437,500
City      £53,143,125
Liverpool £17,050,000
Tottenham £14,143,750
Manure    £11,318,750
Arsenal   -£3,033,750 


Doing some quick and dirty accounting which in all honesty doesn't really give much insight about anything (add the net transfer spending per season to the wage bill) would give the following spend per season:

Chelsea   227.9m
City      227m
Manure    164.2m
Liverpool 141.4
Arsenal   121m
Tottenham 105m


Main point to Note:

From 2003 till now, All the other clubs have net investment into players for their team while Arsenal has actually taken money out of the team.

Questions:

1. What do these monetary Net transfer values translate to in terms of the youth policy?

Answer: We have grown and sold more players from within than buying from without while virtually ever other club has bought from the outside to improve their team. Or think of it this way, while Liverpool have added a player worth 17m to their club in purchases each year, we have sold a player worth 3 million each year between 2003 and 2011.

2. Why did we buck the trend from other clubs? Necessity from investment into the stadium? Arsene's whim? a dishonest board?

Answer: Frankly speaking, I do not know but I'll choose a mix of all the above but with most of it due to the stadium move as prior to that Arsenal's transfer policy was a lot similar to other clubs. You can pick yours but in doing so ask yourself what evidence you have to back up whatever option you choose.

3. In light of the above, has Arsene underperformed in the period under review?

Answer: In my opinion NO, other people's opinion are welcomed and I'm very interested in seeing other people's interpretation of statistical data and corrections and modifications to any errorneous data supplied.

Other Minor Points to Note:
1. City's spending has been concentrated within the past 3 years
2. Tottenham have not finished above Arsenal in the period under review
3. Arsenal have not finished outside of top 4 in the period under review
4. Since the wage bill is actually for last season, I think the review is only accurate for the period 2003 to 2011 particularly in the region 2009 to 2010 where the wage bill has varied little and not this season as a lot of things have happened since then in each of the clubs e.g. Nasri and Cesc moving. It is pertinent to point out that this season would ideally be accurately judged when the wage bills for this season and transfers are retrospectively examined.


Sources:

The Swiss Rambler: http://swissramble..com/2011/10/arsenals-finances-21-questions.html?utm_source=BP_recent
Transfer League: www.transferleague.co.uk

Going all the way back to 2003 is unrealistic - the EPL is little or nothing like it was back then. A more reasonable analysis in this case would be to compare over the period that Redknapp has been at Tottenham till date. 2008 to 2011 would be a more rational comparison. Only comparing to Fergie makes sense going that far back.

epistle don start.


firstly, IM AM DAMN CONVINCED ITS NOT DEBOSKY POSTING WITH HIS HANDLE!

secondly, @ duduspace, give this up. if in a group of one million all except 1 person realises whats gwan then that 1 has to be daft. wenger is supposed to be smart.
the practical implication of all this your excuses is that he is not smart enough for the job!!!
the scenario u keep painting makes absolutely no sense!


leave matter, i do not bother myself thinking about arsenal issues anymore, at least not until i see signs of positive change in the way its being run. like the saying goes, its lunacy to keep doing things in the same way and expecting different results.

there are certain things that have been constants over the last 7 years, and the results have also been identical!! it is so bad DK came up with some bar chart thingy about how arsenal season always goes.

now u are still saying that the way we are running now is still the right way? all excuses for the club are not tenable.

it practically mirrors nigeria. everyone except GEJ and Okonjo/SLS could see clearly that their agenda for subsidy was wrong, despite all the high falutin economic theories they were spouting. it may look like its making economic sense to continue running the club like this, but in 2 years it will cost more to save it than to change now!!

then again, does wengers present contract not run out in like a year?

at this rate u can see why he is so frustratingly idiotic with his choices. he will leave and get another job easily elsewhere and leave the club in a much worse state than he met it!!


im just happy he sees the sense with my advice to avoid europa league altogether and get 8th position . or why else do u think he messed up sundays game?

4llerbuntu:

firstly, IM AM DAMN CONVINCED ITS NOT DEBOSKY POSTING WITH HIS HANDLE!

Na me - abi you wan make do retina scan and fingerprint check to confirm?

it may look like its making economic sense to continue running the club like this, but in 2 years it will cost more to save it than to change now!!

That’s my point - we are fast approaching a point of no return. . . . like heading downhill towards a cliff. If you don’t slam on the brakes now and stop the slide, the brakes will not work when you’ve flown over the cliff and are mid-air about to be smashed to pieces.

Some cats will say they said this a long time ago, but I don’t engage in witchcraft aka predicting the future.

Once your fans turn against you, the writing is on the wall and the fans will force the impotent board to act. There are more Arsenal fans against Wenger now than possibly ever before - I’m sure Gazidis knows this and will protect his own job if push comes to shove.

A club unable to maximise its income from other sources cannot rationally say they are ‘ok’ with losing £30m. If we can ‘survive’ losing £30m is it not utter foolishness to avoid spending £20m to get in better players NOW?

** I Debosky, the Obatalapipipi II of Nairaland approve this message**

4llerbuntu:

secondly, @ duduspace, give this up.    if in a group of one million all except 1 person realises whats gwan then that 1 has to be daft.   wenger is supposed to be smart.
the practical implication of all this your excuses is that he is not smart enough for the job!!!
the scenario u keep painting makes absolutely no sense!

This statement is a fallacy 4ller.
If it were true, significant theories and progress that have made our lives better would be made by 'everybody' and not certain 'individuals'.
Issues such as this should be discussed and argued on fact based assertions and not on political or majority support particularly when the so called majority is as fickle as the wind and only reach a crescendo when the team loses. 

debosky:

Going all the way back to 2003 is unrealistic - the EPL is little or nothing like it was back then. A more reasonable analysis in this case would  be to compare over the period that Redknapp has been at Tottenham till date. 2008 to 2011 would be a more rational comparison. Only comparing to Fergie makes sense going that far back.

Broadly true, I did allude to that and I'll be glad if you can go one step further than me and supply that data.  .
What I abhor is plucking figures out of the air and stating them as if they were fact.
If you are confident that there will be a wide variation in outcome by varying the sample space, then do take the time to do it, I'm sure you'll end up even more surprised at what you'll find cos I can almost bet that it would show Arsene in an even better light.

Back to the match against Manure, the team was better than its performance on the day. Like Arsene usually says, confidence is quick to depart but slow to build. We lost the match because a lot of our players were already defeated in their minds before they even stepped on the pitch.
Primary amongst this is our MF, Ramsey seemed to be in awe of his great compatriot and I've now seen Song not stand up to the occasion for the second time, the first was against Birmingham in the CC final and I excused him due to fatigue for that.

I almost felt like giving Ramsey a slap when he got the yellow card against Giggs by holding on to him like a baby, I mean, here is a guy old enough to be your father and you can't even try to run him ragged all over the pitch but ended up giving dodgy passes and wasting time on the ball all through the first half? Abeg, if Arsene intends to get a player like Yann M'vila or Gourcuff for the summer, the board might do well to release the money and get him right away if available. We need another quality body in that MF and we are losing a lot by giving the 'Cesc' role to Ramsey. At this stage of the season, Cesc would be in double digits in terms of assists and goals already but Ramsey is currently behind Song who plays deeper.

The less said of JD, the better but players like Koscielny and Ox were immense on the day. They deserve a lot of credit for their performance as they didn't hide but tried to drive the team forward.

I couldn't help but laugh at this:

[Quote]
[size=14pt]Lo! Behold the future[/size]

By Leopold Mendacious

I know a lot of fans are feeling kinda bad about the club and the manager right now. If only we knew how it was gonna pan out. But no-one can tell the future, right?

Wrong!

I’ve had in my possession for a while a scroll which dates to the same time as the Dead Sea ones. It was discovered under the floorboards of a bedsit in Kilburn.

It tells us all about Arsenal before Arsenal was even invented!

I got it from Peter Frampton in return for a spinet I sorted out for his keyboard player for his ’74 tour.

It’s been validated by scholars and Rod Stewart said he ‘reckons it’s pukka’ so here it is:

“And Lo, the leader didst appear before the people, and his name was Professor, or one who speaks the truth.

And the people didst flock unto him, for upon his head was a magic hat. And yea, he did deliver unto them a double, and there was much rejoicing throughout the land.

And he looked upon his works, and they were good. But, lo, he decided he could do more and thus he looked into heart of the Rothman’s yearbook to find new peaks to conquer.

And so it came to pass that he didst assemble a team of much might and vigour. And they didst conquer all who came before them, verily like a steamroller flattening all in its path. And Invincibles was their name.

But even as their strength waxed mighty, the seeds of doom were finding purchase. For mighty warriors though they were, some amongst them had agents who dripped poison into their ears, whispering of riches and honour in other kingdoms.

And others of their number looked upon their knees and their ankles and saw that they had passed the flush of youth and were now poor, withered things. And the great leader didst sell them for gold to foolish men.

Yet, while his cloak was filled with gold, he didst not go to the slave market and buy new warriors. But instead the BOARD spake unto him and commanded him to give them the gold to buy a new temple.

And the people grew restless, but the leader didst go out amongst them and he spoke of a future he foresaw, where golden youths would play a passing game that passeth all understanding.

And the midfield would trianguleth the ball to one another in such a way that all who came before them would quail at their skills.

And the people were content at this time to believe the leader, and did hail the dawn of tippy tappy.

But mysterious are the ways of the Premier League, and it did come to pass that for many years a famine did fall upon the land, and the people did cry out to the BOARD and the leader for relief.

And the mighty cabinet of trophies that they had built in their new temple stood empty, and all gazed upon its emptiness and did wail and gnash their teeth.

And across the way their old temple stood ruined and desecrated, and it seemed to the people as if their spirit had evaporatedeth into the sky above the road of Holloway.

And the leader did look upon his creation and he thought unto himself that he could do with a bit of mercurial talent

And so he offered unto the people a magician from the East.

And the people rejoiced, for this magician was short in stature but mighty in spirit, and looketh like the Owl who abideth in the barn, or at a sanctuary.

And he didst make himself beloved of the people early doors by going to the mighty fortress of the reds and smiting them four times.

But he was a false prophet and flattereth to deceiveth. And he didst grow increasing fat, yea, as doth the pig before slaughter, and his work-rate appallethed all who looked upon it.

And things went from bad to worseth, as the boy king called FABREGAS decided to forsake the leader and return to his homeland. For his very bones and blood made him do it, said his new teammates.

And it came to pass that the leader didst take his team to the rainy city of the north, where his great enemy dwelt amongst his hideous horde.

And his enemy dealt unto the leader a right spanking, smiting his team eight grievous blows. And he retuned to the new temple chastened, as like the hound with its tail betweeneth its legs.

And the leader didst cast around him for solace, but he foundeth that people grew restive and no longer heeded his entreaties.

And so he offered unto the people an Ox, and the people were once again happy,

But then the leader took the Ox from them and gave them the Owl and the people wailed and did rend their garments.

And yea, they didst flock unto Twitter to decry the leader with intemperate violence.

And the leader didst dash his vessel of water upon the ground and thought unto himself, these people are fickle and like a child. For did I not prophesy that their appetite for sausage would be spoiled by caviar?

But the leader stucketh to his guns, and the BOARD stucketh by him, for they kneweth when they were on to a good thing.

For what profiteth a board if they sack their manager who saveth them money?

And lo, the leader didst prophecy that his players would return from their ailments, and verily they would be Like a New Signing.

And it came to pass, and results did improve mightily, and the team stringeth back-to-back wins together.

And lo, they reached the promised land of fourth place and the people rejoiced. For they had no sense of shame, nor of perspective, and thought not of their previous anger with the leader.

And the leader didst celebrate too, and to show his pleasure he brought unto the club two 13 year old Peruvians around which to build for the future.

And things went on as they had been, yea, even until the end of days.”
[/quote]

However, for the first time in a long while, the comfort of a top 4 finish might even be denied.

duduspace:

I couldn't help but laugh at this:

And lo, the leader didst prophecy that his players would return from their ailments, and verily they would be Like a New Signing.

Seriously Wenger worships at the altar of Like A New Signing (LANS) every year - right now he has so many of them he is besides himself - Wilshere, Diaby, Jenkinson, Santos, Gibbs, Sagna, Arteta? Heck he must be wetting himself at the thought of all of them coming back!

Thread title not quite apt anymore. I hope i wont be supporting a division two Arsenal fc a few years from now  . Abeg dudu, enough of the postulations jo

^^
We can still rise from the ashes. Lets wait and see what Arsene has in mind as per January signings and also pray the injured guys return soon

^^^

A. Wenger has no plans for January signings.