for those crucifying Catholics please;

what is the spiritual difference between child dedication in the church and infant baptism?

Why not wait for the child to attain the age of reason so that he/she will decide if he/she wants to be dedicated to God or not?

I strongly believe that you really don't need to open the Bible to know what is required of one. In most cases we do same things in different ways.

Please, read about the visit of Peter to Cornelius and how after the family of Cornelius received the Holy Spirit, they were baptized inside their household. The Holy Bible did not state any specific age for baptism and since Jesus Christ did not mention any age limit, it would be wise to follow the example of Jesus Christ and not your own denominational dogma or doctrine of dialectical Theology.

Wow, there we go again, arguing over irrelevant things. Doesn't it bother us, that even with our so called 'knowledge' and grasp of the word of God, we are still the most unwholesome country on the planet? We are just busy arguing like the Pharisees, Sadducees and people like Peter who wanted to stand by the law (when he suggested that gentiles can not be saved?). These symbolic things like Baptism are not in themselves what will save a Christian. The symbolic pouring of water (as in infant baptism) or immersion (as in adult baptism) are not in themselves acts that will save you. Baptism as Christ envisioned it is a personal relationship with God. As long as you believe in Jesus, accept him as your Lord and Savior, you are saved (irrespective of whether you went about getting immersed in water or not). My point is: Salvation, the kind that gets one to heaven, does not come by either sprinkling of water or immersion. You can do either and still lose heaven. Salvation comes by establishing a relationship with God and living out his grace. Just do this and you won't need the water immersion, the water sprinkling or the age factor.

@i.chuka
I pray that you recieve the Grace of better maturity as a christian so you can stop committing the sin of condemnation.

“Do not speak evil against one another, brothers. The one who speaks against a brother or judges his brother, speaks evil against the law and judges the law. But if you judge the law, you are not a doer of the law but a judge.” James 4:11

I think you are going to far in labeling it a sin. Bring proof from the bible where it says infant baptism is a sin. Who died and crowned you king to tell people what is a sin and what's not since it's not explicitly written in the bible. Now if this was about fornication, adultery, lying stealing, etc. I will agree with you because the bible say these things are sin, but anything else is up for interpretation and you can't make a bold statement such as infant baptism is a sin when the issue of baptism is vague in the bible.

Nicklee:

Wow, there we go again, arguing over irrelevant things. Doesn't it bother us, that even with our so called 'knowledge' and grasp of the word of God, we are still the most unwholesome country on the planet? We are just busy arguing like the Pharisees, Sadducees and people like Peter who wanted to stand by the law (when he suggested that gentiles can not be saved?). These symbolic things like Baptism are not in themselves what will save a Christian. The symbolic pouring of water (as in infant baptism) or immersion (as in adult baptism) are not in themselves acts that will save you. Baptism as Christ envisioned it is a personal relationship with God. As long as you believe in Jesus, accept him as your Lord and Savior, you are saved (irrespective of whether you went about getting immersed in water or not). My point is: Salvation, the kind that gets one to heaven, does not come by either sprinkling of water or immersion. You can do either and still lose heaven. Salvation comes by establishing a relationship with God and living out his grace. Just do this and you won't need the water immersion, the water sprinkling or the age factor.

Completely agree with you, but,

I don't see you condeming those who carry out infant or adult baptism too!

Italo there is no catholic church in the Bible. The only church in the bible was THE CHURCH OF GOD which is the body of Christ. To answer a question about infant baptism by saying it initiates an infant into the catholic church shows that you cannot separate sentiment from real spirituality. Anyway I am still waiting for a verse that says there is a justifiable reason to baptize infants. I don't need a book just a verse or two. I might learn something new today

People who have no issues with paying tithes (which are not required with the new covenant) will now be complaining about infant baptism.
Na wa o!

Infant baptism isn't Biblical, A should b dedicated to God not baptized. If baptism saves as somebody claimed then the robber @ d right of Jesus on d cross wil not be save, because he waznt baptized, Baptism comes after one hz acknkowledged his sins, confess Christ as Lord and Savior then U r qualified, A CHILD KNOWS NOTHING

@ Texazzpete,I tire for these pple ‎​Φ! They shld do their adult while we do infant. Re we complaining! Dnt mind dem joor!

Nicklee:

Wow, there we go again, arguing over irrelevant things. Doesn't it bother us, that even with our so called 'knowledge' and grasp of the word of God, we are still the most unwholesome country on the planet? We are just busy arguing like the Pharisees, Sadducees and people like Peter who wanted to stand by the law (when he suggested that gentiles can not be saved?). These symbolic things like Baptism are not in themselves what will save a Christian. The symbolic pouring of water (as in infant baptism) or immersion (as in adult baptism) are not in themselves acts that will save you. Baptism as Christ envisioned it is a personal relationship with God. As long as you believe in Jesus, accept him as your Lord and Savior, you are saved (irrespective of whether you went about getting immersed in water or not). My point is: Salvation, the kind that gets one to heaven, does not come by either sprinkling of water or immersion. You can do either and still lose heaven. Salvation comes by establishing a relationship with God and living out his grace. Just do this and you won't need the water immersion, the water sprinkling or the age factor.

Thank you.

If you say Because Jesus said ' Let the liittle children come to me & do not hinder them for the kingdom of God belong to such as these' and so infant should be baptised. Now answer me; Did Jesus baptize any of those children that came to him? Did he on any occation baptized any infant because people were giving birth and children abound so why didnt he? Did  the people bring infant to John the baptist for baptism? Did Jesus disciple/followers did infant baptism? If you cant answer yes to these so tell me from where did you now imbibe the culture of infant baptism ?

Jesus said to his followers 'Go and make disciples of people of all nations baptizing them Mathew 28;19 meaning that they need to teach people, and people need knoledge and faith in the word to get baptized. what has an infant learn about God and Christ and how can they exercise faith in God when they knows nothing, they are just innocent and are yet to recognize betweent wrong and right. Knowledge and faith is needed for bap and this means study of bible. Act 18; 18, the bible tells us that when some people in the ancient city of corinth heard the christain message, they began to believ and be baptized so how does infant fit for baptism in this regard?

Now to the meaning of baptism. The word 'Baptism' comes from a greek term meaning 'Dip' Christian baptism therefore means being fully dipped or Immersed, as in contrast to sprinkling of water which does not fulfll the true symbol of baptism.  Baptism is not a mere bath. It is symbol very important to God. Going Beneath the water indicates that you are dead to your former life course. Being raised up out of water indicates you are now alive to do the will of God. So what former life has anfant led to be buried in water? Non, so not qaulified.

Jesus set an example by being baptized in water. He did not sprinkle water or pour water just on his head. Mathew 3;16. The bible says that they went on spreading the message and those who put faith and repented were baptized and this took place in the river. Infant were never  taken to the river for baptism except adults even thou there is no age indicated but humans who were able to listen, learn put faith and distinguish between right and wrong, an so infants are not.

Religion is for grannies

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@op
This a dum.b post and du.mb crusade
U can as well bring the plethora of divergence in doctrines and beliefs particularly d ones ur church practice here and forced them down on us while condemning others.
Ur are arguing infant and adult baptism today, after u will enter baptism by immersion or by sprinkling of water etc

Quoting bible verse is usually not the problem, is interpretation as pple do this to suit their purpose.

So sad

pple should just get busy with things dt are productive.

No infant baptism, No circumcision till old age

@outsrip: ignorance or lack of knowledge is your problem. i am an Anglican and when i say THE CATHOLIC CHURCH it means THE UNIVERSAL CHURCH I.E. THE ENTIRE BODY OF CHRIST.NOT Roman Catholic Church. it is the early church language. You people dont know anything about church history at all let alone sound theology and yet you are arguing the issue of doctrine.

Beync:

If you say Because Jesus said ' Let the liittle children come to me & do not hinder them for the kingdom of God belong to such as these' and so infant should be baptised. Now answer me; Did Jesus baptize any of those children that came to him? Did he on any occation baptized any infant because people were giving birth and children abound so why didnt he? Did  the people bring infant to John the baptist for baptism? Did Jesus disciple/followers did infant baptism? If you cant answer yes to these so tell me from where did you now imbibe the culture of infant baptism ?

Jesus said to his followers 'Go and make disciples of people of all nations baptizing them Mathew 28;19 meaning that they need to teach people, and people need knoledge and faith in the word to get baptized. what has an infant learn about God and Christ and how can they exercise faith in God when they knows nothing, they are just innocent and are yet to recognize betweent wrong and right. Knowledge and faith is needed for bap and this means study of bible. Act 18; 18, the bible tells us that when some people in the ancient city of corinth heard the christain message, they began to believ and be baptized so how does infant fit for baptism in this regard?

Now to the meaning of baptism. The word 'Baptism' comes from a greek term meaning 'Dip' Christian baptism therefore means being fully dipped or Immersed, as in contrast to sprinkling of water which does not fulfll the true symbol of baptism.  Baptism is not a mere bath. It is symbol very important to God. Going Beneath the water indicates that you are dead to your former life course. Being raised up out of water indicates you are now alive to do the will of God. So what former life has anfant led to be buried in water? Non, so not qaulified.

Jesus set an example by being baptized in water. He did not sprinkle water or pour water just on his head. Mathew 3;16. The bible says that they went on spreading the message and those who put faith and repented were baptized and this took place in the river. Infant were never  taken to the river for baptism except adults even thou there is no age indicated but humans who were able to listen, learn put faith and distinguish between right and wrong, an so infants are not.

u've said it all, very good points u've made

THE TRUTH ABOUT INFANT BAPTISM

Most Christian churches todaybaptize babies by sprinkling water
on them and calling it “infant baptism”. But nowhere in the Bible
can we find where the Apostles of Jesus ever baptized babies.
Infant Baptism is not a Biblical teaching; it is a dogma of the
Roman Catholic Church. There's nobody ever sprinkled in the Bible.

In the Old Testament, we will find that the the high priest circumcised the
babies on the 8th day. Leviticus 12:2-3, “Speak unto the
children of Israel, saying, If a woman have conceived seed, and
born a man child: then she shall be unclean seven days;
according to the days of the separation for her infirmity shall
she be unclean. And in the eighth day the flesh of his foreskin
shall be circumcised.”

But in the New Testament, the only way the apostles dedicated the babies
unto God is by bringing the little ones to the Lord Jesus. Jesus lifted them up in His
hands, and blessed them, saying, "Suffer little children to come
unto Me, and forbid them not: for of such is the Kingdom."
(Matt. 19:13-15; Luke 18: 15-17). Thus, this is the correct
Biblical formula for dedicating babies unto the Lord.

Water Baptism is a confession that an inward work of grace has been
done. Yet little infants has no knowledge of sin. Of course, the
baby is borned in sin, shaped in iniquity, comes to the world
speaking lies, and they're sinners by nature. But when Jesus
died at the cross, He died to take away the sins of the world.
And when a baby becomes a human being and is born into this
world, they have no sin of their own.

The Blood of Jesus Christ already atones for the baby’s sin.
And therefore they have no repentance to be done and no water
baptism is required of them, not until they reach the age of accountability.
The baby comes to the age of accountability between the age of 12 to 13 years
old. During such age, the child knows already what's right and
wrong. Therefore, it’s the proper time for him or her to repent
for what he/she has done. And when he/she repents, then's that’s
the time to undergo water baptism (Acts 2:38 - “Repent and be
baptized, ”) by immersion.

fredie107:

Infant baptism isn't Biblical,  A should b dedicated to God not baptized. If baptism saves as somebody claimed then the robber @ d right of Jesus on d cross wil not be save, because he waznt baptized,  Baptism comes after one hz acknkowledged his sins, confess Christ as Lord and Savior then U r qualified,  A CHILD KNOWS NOTHING

This is where I have a problem with you "born again" folks, you always interprete the bible upside down in an effort to prove that you are more knowledgeable than other christians biblically.

How can you say that because the thief was pardoned by the Saviour himself, it means baptism wasn't necessary for salvation? Depending on the circumstance, Jesus can determine who enters the kingdom, baptism or no baptism, sin or no sin. He has the prerogative.

And if I may ask, was it written anywhere in the bible that the robber  was never baptized prior to his meeting with Christ on the cross? We can even deduce that the robber was baptized because he confessed his sins before Christ on the cross, admitting that he deserved the punishment being meted out to him. He even went further to ask to be remembered in the Father's kingdom meaning he believed in Christ at that point. What else is baptism?

Outstrip:

Italo there is no catholic church in the Bible. The only church in the bible was THE CHURCH OF GOD which is the body of Christ. To answer a question about infant baptism by saying it initiates an infant into the catholic church shows that you cannot separate sentiment from real spirituality. Anyway I am still waiting for a verse that says there is a justifiable reason to baptize infants. I don't need a book just a verse or two. I might learn something new today

Well the Catholic Church is in the Bible. That which you call "The Church of God" is what was later named the Catholic Church to show its universality.

When we baptize people in the Catholic Church, we baptize them into the Catholic Church, which is the body and bride of Christ. It doesn't matter what feel about it. You see, we Catholics generally don't usually impose our beliefs on others even though we know that it is the Church founded by Christ which posseses the fullness of truth. We just quietly practise our faith and allow other do whatever they want to do in peace. But what I can't take is when a member of one of these shops called "churches" without foundation starts pretending to know the truth and trying to it on us. No!

If you want a verse that we can baptize infants and you can't find it in my post #19, then maybe you should also give me a verse that says "do not baptize infants"

But here's also a question that everyone against infant baptism has been avoiding (maybe you can bail them out): what are the names and ages of those that were baptized in the households of Cornelius and Lydia? So that we can check if there were infants among them or not.

most of this new generation church people always want to delve into issues they have no bisiness or knowledge about. Before you continue to talk about any doctrinal or biblical issues who amongst you know how the library or TA BIBLIA or in simple english the bible as we have it came to be? you are just there quoting it out of context behaving as if you wrote it. pls let us drop this issue,it is bringing meaningless arguments and it is further dividing us. Jesus says “that they all may be one“. we have effevtive evangelism to discuss, we have methods of church growth we can shear.

jeo4christ; No wonder the bible says my people perish for lack of knowledge.
Sometimes it baffles me how we view this God, my question is; If u were to be God the creator of the whole universe, would u send an infant who die to hell simply because he was not baptized as a child?
Of course i know u woild'nt, so if mortal as wicked and evil minded as u are would'nt do such how much more God almighty who loves mortals unconditionally even beyond their greatest immaginations, which he demonstrated by pratically giving out his most cherished and precious gift in person of his son Jesus christ to die a shameful death like a common criminal in order to pay the full prize for man's redemption, how on planet earth would u expect such a loving God to send an innocent infant into hell for not being baptize as if it was the child's fault.

Infant baptism are men's doctrine, it has no scriptural backing, just as the doctrine of porgatry never had.
But it's unfortunate that most christians prefer the doctrine of men than that of God.
But the word of the lord cannot be broken, u cannot sow death and reap life.
This doctrines are not just from men but from HELL itself,
There's only one path to life and that's the path of truth and not of deciet.
Unfortunately many christian have ended up in HELL as a result of deception and many more are still roaming that path.
The world's most powerful spell is the spell of deception.
Study the word and show thyself approved.

Did u go throuh the thread? i never made mention of infant going to hell. U believe what u interpret not minding what the verse is met for. we are all here to learn, as wide as the bible, even if u are able to read all its passages, u will still need to learn certain things from others. Like i sad before, there is no where was it written tht infants were baptised. that doesn't means if an infant dies he goes to hell, we do not know of this secret of God, so rather, lets not conclude that because an infant is baptised, if he/she dies, its straight to heaven. i am not here to judge that.
What is not reveal in the bible, are Gods secret. He has plans for infants, children, deranged etc.

Cornelius' household - Acts 10:1-11:18; 15:7-11


My point is that baptism is a symbolic expression of faith. I am not saying the baptism of a baby saves it. It just shows an intention of dedication of the child to God. Even if infants are dedicated to the Lord, when they grow up they will still have to make their personal decisions.

The book of Acts gives historical narration of actual events that took place. U should know that ,the fact that God promised Cornelius that his whole household would be saved does not mean the same promise applies universally to all households across time. (Like God did with Father Abraham, Father of all nation,). In other words, it was a specific promise to a specific person at a specific point in time. we should becareful in interpreting these types of promises as universal in nature becus they must be understood correctly in thei historical setting in order to be interpreted rightly.

It is clear that Cornelius's case is Gods fulfilling promises on him and his househood. The Angel of God gave him the msg for Peter to come minister to him. this is specific promise in fulfillment.
If u read Acts 10:33, u will first see that Cornelius and his household were gathered “to hear all that (Peter) ve been commanded by the Lord.” In other words, they were in a place and position to hear the Gospel which “is the power of God to salvation” (Romans 1:16). Upon hearing the Gospel preached by Peter, everyone in Cornelius’s household believed and was baptized (Acts 11:15-18). So, while God had promised Cornelius that his household would be saved, the way they were saved was consistent with God’s plan of salvation, which is through the preaching of the Gospel. U can understand they were not saved becus Cornelius believed but because they believed So u concluding that this was transformed as a univesal promise, its ur own opinion. Peter preached to them; who? adults of course! they listened undestood, and the Holy spirit filled them, did the Holy spirit filled the infants too? maybe u can tell us how this was done too.

Some people believe baptism can save a baby, but I disagree; and I disagree also that it can even save an adult. But that is my own view.

My broda, its salvation that saves, through faith, by hearing and believing in the word of God.
know tht the command to believe is directed to individuals and the act of believing is an individual action.
Understanding dis is important when it comes to perfectly understanding the concept of household salvation becos it helps us focus on the fact that salvation can only come through an individual believing in Christ.
It is not something that a father can do for a son or daughter, nor is the fact tht one member of a family or household believes any guarantee that the rest will also.

God is no respecter of persons (Acts 10:34) so the same token applied to the entire household.

how does this verse conect to the thread sir?

Infant baptism isn't Biblical,  A should b dedicated to God not baptized. If baptism saves as somebody claimed then the robber @ d right of Jesus on d cross wil not be save, because he waznt baptized, Baptism comes after one hz acknkowledged his sins, confess Christ as Lord and Savior then U r qualified,  A CHILD KNOWS NOTHING

U re hiting the truth! apart frm the fact the infants were not mentioned to be baptised in the bible, the sprinkling of water practice is not baptism. Baptism is buried in Christ and rise with Christ.)

folaski:

most of this new generation church people always want to delve into issues they have no bisiness or knowledge about. Before you continue to talk about any doctrinal or biblical issues who amongst you know how the library or TA BIBLIA or in simple english the bible as we have it came to be? you are just there quoting it out of context behaving as if you wrote it. pls let us drop this issue,it is bringing meaningless arguments and it is further dividing us. Jesus says “that they all may be one“. we have effevtive evangelism to discuss, we have methods of church growth we can shear.

We are not claiming anything in finding the truth in a particular practice in the body of Christ.
The bible itself is there to correct things. Alot of people that practise this infant baptism has no ideal of what it means.
Ignorant in rampant.

@Italo:No, you didn't answer to every one of the verses - it would take you a lifetime to do so, and you still won't be able to disprove them.

How could i ve answered all the verses, i read the verses and discovered there was none that stated, Infants or children were baptised. So i gave u my reply in respect of what the verses qoute. by backing my with proves.

Now I asked some specific questions: when were you baptized as a catholic?

I didn't want to answer becos i felt it was not important, as u re repeating, see my respond.
I was not born catholic, so i didn't baptise there, I became catholic through one of our tenant who's househood were catholics. Although, my dad was a COGM member, we do go to church only sundays.

Joining catholic was really because of the house to house fellowship practise, i felt it was good becos, it helps to remind me of Gods word during the week. But at this point, i discover alot of things like, in some family living, they build alter with MARY's image etc. Ididn't ve borther to kow if it was biblica then, maybe becos, i dont even read the bible. when i recieved the gospel through an evangelical preacher, i converted in and gave my life to Christ.

if u know how dangerous it is not to baptise your child when they are young u wouldn't be here sayin this nonsense. U are waitin for them to reach the age of reasoning to choose whatever religion they want does it show that u loved ur kids at all?

And name d members of lydia's and cornelius' households that were baptized in the book of acts, let's see if there were infants there or not.

I repeat, There is no where it is mentioned if there were children or infants in the cases of Househood.
But for prove, there are adults, this include the husband, wife, servants, inlaws and thier children, how old the children may be if at all ther is any no details about it
So It is hard to believe there were or were no children below moral accountability age.

In comparing verses that speaks of baptism, in the bible, it always specify men and women, in those verses in my previews posts. And the baptise method given was, buried and arise from the water, this is a thing that cannot be dont with infants becos of the risk. For the fact that it was never specified, i must say that, God has plan for infants. I leave that to him. We must know that childs dedication is a good way to teach a child in the way og God. Why be scared of death on ur infants/children? leave them, God holds them firmly. they are safer with God than their parents.

grailife:

if u know how dangerous it is not to baptise your child when they are young u wouldn't be here sayin this nonsense. U are waitin for them to reach the age of reasoning to choose whatever religion they want does it show that u loved your kids at all?

Is it all about ur own understanding? dedication is commiting the baby to God's direction.Lord i present this child to u.

matt 19:14 But Jesus said, Suffer little children, and forbid them not, to come unto me: for of such is the kingdom of heaven.

Matthew 18:3
And he said: “I tell you the truth, unless you change and become like little children, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven.”

U can see why u should not worry much, he sait it all, they are precious in his eyes so nothing like dangerous as long as u teach them in Godly way.

Matthew 18:3
And he said: “I tell you the truth, unless you change and become like little children, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven.”

Change and become like children, before one can obtain the heavenly ticket, then it means, children do not need to obtain a ticket, Jesus has given them automatic entre.
Unless: the only option
Change:turn away from (sin/evil activities)
Never enter:no way ooo!

It is so sad dat pple are so ignorant nd yet so blind dat they would remain so when it is so glaring.
Infant baptism CANNOT save a baby, for if such a baby becomes an adult, & dies without becomin 'born again', nd it is clear dat anyone who dies in their sin i.e without being 'born again' is to Hell, den how is a person saved by infant baptism? Or baptism by sprinkling? D basis for salvation is for a man to b bornagain, 2 give his life to Christ. Whereas, baptism is carried out 2 show d world dat u av made dat decision.(also to obey d scriptures completely.)