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Moses, Jesus, Then Other Claimed Prophets: by plappville(f): 7:02pm On Dec 14, 2011 |
The Bible Claims that Miracles Prove God Exists and Is the True God. God's divine miracles is authentic and can hold strong claims universally when there are eye- witnesses. Persons/people who can report their experiences. In the case of Jesus, all the miracles performed by him was withnessed by the apostles John and Matthew. Even, non-Christian writers such as Josephus a (Jewish), Tacitus a (Roman) and the writers of the Jewish Talmud corroborate the fact that it was claimed widely that he worked miracles. When God speaks His word, he understands we need proof it's his and not man's. God knows This is the only way a the people can validate if the miracle is from him or not. Fake miracles often refuse to do miracles if doubters are present, or they excuse their failure on the grounds that the observers lack faith. They also do miracls only in presence of their followers. But when men of God had true power to do miracles, they were not afraid to do them in the presence of people who had questions or doubts, or even people who openly opposed their teaching. So that observers could investigate for themselves and judge. (Moses) and (JESUS) are good examples of true divine miracles from God. Miracles don in Publics, miracles that a whole nation of Israel withnessed etc. (Muhammed's approx. AD 600), his miracles are eaither withnessed by his follower or only Muslims. And they are not met the Gods divine miracles statistics as in MOSES AND JESUS. Now lets see all the three and their miracles. (Siddhartha Gautama (Buddha) (approx. 550 BC). Absolutelly no record of Buddha either working miracles or claiming to work miracles. (Confucius (approx. 500 BC). Same situAtion. There is no reliable evidence that he either worked miracles or claimed to do so. (Joseph Smith) claimed he has the power to work miracles by the Holy Spirit. But for example, at a key meeting in the first temple in Kirtland, Ohio, Joseph Smith completely failed to perform a number of faith healings. This failure was so complete that the meeting broke up and his followers went home disillusioned. Bottom line, Joseph Smith was not able to do public and irrefutable miraculous signs, despite a number of folk stories and anecdotal and unreliable accounts. JUST TO NAME A FEW OF THEM. [size=14pt]MIRACLES OF JESUS[/size] Healing the possessed man in Capernaum, mark 1:23-28 and 4:33-37 [size=14pt]MIRACLES OF MOSES[/size] 1. The children of Israel were in bondage in Egypt by Pharaoh, they were fruitful, and increased abundantly, and multiplied and the land was full with them. Exodus 1: 7. [size=14pt]MIRACLES OF MOHAMMED[/size] Splitting of the Moon |
Re: Moses, Jesus, Then Other Claimed Prophets: by LagosShia: 7:42pm On Dec 14, 2011 |
just to point out an often repeated misinterpretation of the Quran by non-muslims.the Quran does not at all say that Muhammad (sa) did not perform miracles.it simply answers the pagans who thought of the Prophet (sa) as some supernatural being or a small "god" like christians view Jesus or in cases where the pagans still disbelieved.in those verses the Prophet (sa) is told to answer that he is only a mortal who is himself dependent on God the Almighty Creator.so whatever miracle or power that it reported like the Splitting of the Moon which itself is mentioned in the Quran,is to be understood rightly as the power of God the Almighty Creator and not the Prophet (sa).this is to make the message clear enough that we should not fall into the mistake of previous communities who took men for gods because they performed miracles.this approach is partly to blame on so called "love" for the men of God like Jesus and on the ignorance of the pagans who converted misunderstanding the concepts of prophethood and divine messengership.however,those verses are in no way to be misunderstood as "lack of miracles" by the Prophet Muhammad (sa).examining the verses and comparing them closely would bring light to that. |
Re: Moses, Jesus, Then Other Claimed Prophets: by plappville(f): 1:08am On Dec 15, 2011 |
U ve spoken well sir, so Jesus is to be blamed because Mohammed was unable to prove himself in public as a true divine prophet. Did u read well my text? I said made mention of some excuses made by prophets with no divine power of miracle. That is exactly where Muhammed fall. He could ve proved himself. God does ever prove himself by his prophets with signs withnessed by doubter etc. The moon was cleft asunder while we were in the company of the Prophet, and it became two parts. The Prophet said, Witness, witness (this miracle)." The bold sounds like one framed up tales, does he ve to call his follower to look, where is the self confident? Was he not sure of himself? When moses manifested God befor king Of Egypt, by turning his rod into snake, know ye that The the physicians also turn thiers into snake, but as God is the greatest Moses defeated them with Greater Miracles that is how God proved himself to the Egyptians, miracle upon miracles in public eyes. So why is it that only Muhammed's follower Are his eye Withness? I read in multiple Islamic articels that says, A real Islamist refused to accept that Mohammed performed any miracle apart from the Kuran given to him by allah(god)There are no concrete prove from outsider as eye withnesses for his claimes. |
Re: Moses, Jesus, Then Other Claimed Prophets: by plappville(f): 10:52pm On Dec 16, 2011 |
Sahih Bukhari , Volume 4, Book 56, Number 814: Narrated Anas: There was a Christian who embraced Islam and read Surat-al-Baqara and Al-Imran, and he used to write (the revelations) for the Prophet. Later on he returned to Christianity again and he used to say: "Muhammad knows nothing but what I have written for him." Then Allah caused him to die, and the people buried him, but in the morning they saw that the earth had thrown his body out. They said, "This is the act of Muhammad and his companions. They dug the grave of our companion and took his body out of it because he had run away from them." They again dug the grave deeply for him, but in the morning they again saw that the earth had thrown his body out. They said, "This is an act of Muhammad and his companions. They dug the grave of our companion and threw his body outside it, for he had run away from them." They dug the grave for him as deep as they could, but in the morning they again saw that the earth had thrown his body out. So they believed that what had befallen him was not done by human beings and had to leave him thrown (on the ground). Very interesting miracle from Muhammed |
Re: Moses, Jesus, Then Other Claimed Prophets: by LagosShia: 10:21am On Dec 17, 2011 |
plappville: so do you expect me to believe what you say or to read for myself and make my own conclusion? you mentioned so many of the miracles said to have being performed by the Prophet Muhammad (sa) even one mentioned in the Quran.this is what you said:
and what do you mean by "God divine miracles statistic"? |
Re: Moses, Jesus, Then Other Claimed Prophets: by LagosShia: 10:37am On Dec 17, 2011 |
plappville: here is another very intersting miracle 2 Kings 2:23-24 “And he (Elisha) went up from thence unto Bethel: and as he was going up by the way, there came forth little children out of the city, and mocked him, and said unto him, Go up, thou bald head; go up, thou bald head. And he turned back, and looked on them, and cursed them in the name of the Lord. And there came forth two she bears out of the wood, and tare forty and two children of them.” and here is one more even more interesting than the first because it never came to pass Mark 16:16-20 16Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned. 17And these signs will accompany those who believe: In my name they will drive out demons; they will speak in new tongues; 18they will pick up snakes with their hands; and when they drink deadly poison, it will not hurt them at all; they will place their hands on sick people, and they will get well." and here is the bible version of "SUPERMAN" Judges 3:31 And after him was Shamgar the son of Anath, which slew of the Philistines six hundred men with an ox goad: and he also delivered Israel. well using an "ox goad" to kill 600 makes him sound more like Harry Potter than Superman |
Re: Moses, Jesus, Then Other Claimed Prophets: by LagosShia: 1:38pm On Dec 17, 2011 |
plappville: are you drunk?
i think i have said enough in the previous posts. there is enough light for those who want to see. there is enough miracles,knowledge of unseen,science and truth and true doctrines in the Quran alone besides other sources of Islam.the miracles of the Prophet (sa) were performed in arabia for both the pagans and muslims who follow Muhammad (sa) to see.and the success of his mission in Arabia proved his truthfulness.he started with a few followers to end up convincing the whole of arabia. that is something Jesus with all his miracles (only recorded in the new testament and supported in the Quran) could not do. John 1:11 "He (Jesus) came unto his own (people,the Jews), and his own (people,the Jews) received him not. |
Re: Moses, Jesus, Then Other Claimed Prophets: by LagosShia: 2:02pm On Dec 17, 2011 |
Is It Every Man That Produces Miracle A True Prophet? Matthew 24:24 "For false Christs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and miracles to deceive even the elect--if that were possible". Matthew 16:4 "A wicked and adulterous generation looks for a miraculous sign, but none will be given it except the sign of Jonah." Jesus then left them and went away". 1 Corinthians 1:22 "Jews demand miraculous signs and Greeks look for wisdom" |
Re: Moses, Jesus, Then Other Claimed Prophets: by plappville(f): 7:24pm On Dec 17, 2011 |
LagosShia: The prophet with semilarity like Moses must possesed Gods devine miraclous power to prove his prophecy is devine. Mohammed in no way, according to your kuran did no miracles of such. Moses spoke to God and followed his commands. He led the people out of Egypt and witnessed "many" miracles in the wilderness. Moses built the Ark of the Covenant as God commanded and received the ten commandments I will not start posting his miracles over and over again, u know better. Before Muhammed came to earth, the bible has spoken of Jesus been spoken of by Moses. Muhammed studied the bible, He saw that the prophecy was not him in anyway. He tried all technics to fix himself, but he couldn't, he failed in many ways, he knew the only way he could decieve people is to tarnish the bible of been corrupt. This bible words still remains, despite his tricks. Acts 3:20-22, regarding Jesus, it states: [size=14pt](Acts 3:20-22“)And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you: (21) Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began. (22) For Moses truly said unto the fathers, A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me; him shall ye hear in all things whatsoever he shall say unto you.”[/size] |
Re: Moses, Jesus, Then Other Claimed Prophets: by plappville(f): 7:47pm On Dec 17, 2011 |
LagosShia: I didn't see in ur holy book miracles performed by him only "one" and each time we qoute other Islamic book, u muslims always refused their authenticity. And these are the books tht seem to mentioned that Muhammed at least, performed some miracles with his followers as eye-withnesses |
Re: Moses, Jesus, Then Other Claimed Prophets: by LagosShia: 10:47pm On Dec 17, 2011 |
plappville: simply because there is no source other than arabic or islamic source on the early movement of Islam in arabia. in the Quran,aside from miracles there is also prophecy.you should try and search for knowledge.whatever i present here you'd most likely not appreciate because you'd see it as something obtained "cheaply". put in the effort.if you put in half the effort of misleading others in your ignorance to know the truth and understanding the deep and thought provoking meanings of the Quran,you'd be a better person than you are and even your husband will appreciate you more andhave high regard for you. |
Re: Moses, Jesus, Then Other Claimed Prophets: by LagosShia: 11:03pm On Dec 17, 2011 |
plappville: Moses split the sea and Muhammad (sa) split the moon.the bible records those of Moses and the Quran records those of Muhammad (sa). God spoke to Moses and God also spoke to Muhammad (sa).God promised Moses to put his words into the mouth of Muhammad (sa) in deut. 18:18.Moses (as) freed his people from slavery and so did Muhammad (sa) also freed his people from mental slavery and the bondage of idolatry. you're so desperate.you are now drifting into the subject of deuteronomy 18:18 which was recently discussed in another thread: https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-819005.32.html#msg9751890 now you claim and repeat the pagan suspicion and missionary lie that Muhammad (sa) was learned and studied the bible (to explain his miraculous being.but the Quran explicitly denies that he was learned and no one in his time and among his contemporaries ever doubted the fact that he was unlearned which is another miracle in itself: Holy Quran 29:48 "And you did not recite before it any scripture, nor did you inscribe one with your right hand. Otherwise the falsifiers would have had [cause for] doubt". |
Re: Moses, Jesus, Then Other Claimed Prophets: by plappville(f): 11:55pm On Dec 17, 2011 |
Moses split the sea and Muhammad (sa) split the moon.the bible records those of Moses and the Quran records those of Muhammad (sa). Plz stop These tales, just like Muhammed ve claimed he knew things of the bible more than the people of the bible. So, do people of the bible know his tricks on miracles performed by him. Apart from the Kuran, what other history recored his Moon spliting? |
Re: Moses, Jesus, Then Other Claimed Prophets: by plappville(f): 12:01am On Dec 18, 2011 |
now you claim and repeat the pagan suspicion and missionary lie that Muhammad (sa) was learned and studied the bible (to explain his miraculous being.but the Quran explicitly denies that he was learned and no one in his time and among his contemporaries ever doubted the fact that he was unlearned which is another miracle in itself: Who is the kuran? What happened to the christian writer that decided to leave Muhammed? Why was he killed? Inorder not to exposed some agenda? If the man had decided to leave is becos he found some tales in Muhhamed. Today, the story was changed and raped as one of his miracles. Look at ignorant world, they will all believe my tales. |
Re: Moses, Jesus, Then Other Claimed Prophets: by plappville(f): 12:13am On Dec 18, 2011 |
simply because there is no source other than arabic or islamic source on the early movement of Islam in arabia. I wonder why muslims like bringing in family in general discussion, do u know me? No. U will not make me look as if i'm brag, if i tell u how i am appreciated it will bug ur heart. He reads most of ur insults and tells me, i discuss with irresponsible fellows. Someone tht doent know u, can tell u about ur hubby , it just shows how blindly u defend islam. Know something before defending it Mr. |
Re: Moses, Jesus, Then Other Claimed Prophets: by LagosShia: 12:23am On Dec 18, 2011 |
plappville: so are you saying Jesus used tricks to perform his miracles? you said the "people of the bible know his tricks".LOL if in all the threads and this inclusive you are still in doubt that you christians are the most fanatical and ignorant people on earth when it comes to your very own religion and bible,then you must be very slow. apart from the new testament,what other historical source records the miracles of Jesus? none!!!! but the miracles of our Prophet (sa) were recorded and witnessed by the thousands who lived with him and later on accepted islam.they believed him and spread the message. but as for Jesus the bible say his own people rejected him (John 1:11). as for the tales,this is what a tale looks like: Matthew 27:50-54 "And when Jesus had cried out again in a loud voice, he gave up his spirit. At that moment the curtain of the temple was torn in two from top to bottom. The earth shook, the rocks split 52 and the tombs broke open. The bodies of many holy people who had died were raised to life. They came out of the tombs after Jesus’ resurrection and went into the holy city and appeared to many people. When the centurion and those with him who were guarding Jesus saw the earthquake and all that had happened, they were terrified, and exclaimed, “Surely he was the Son of God!” with all these fantastic tales,yet still the bible cries:"he came unto his own people but his people rejected him"!the funnier part is that the tale is like an unconcluded movie that still has a part 2 people are still expecting.the author of those verses is not even a good story teller.he left his story without a conclusion.what happened to those dead that came out of their graves? did they return back? did they attack people?did they fall down and die again?were they buried? do other books of the bible state these fantastic events when talking of what happened at that time? did those people continued living to this day after they left their graves? doesn't the bible say that after resurrection of the dead,then it is judgement and after judgement everlasting life?what happened?what happened? what happened Hebrews 9:27 "It is appointed unto man once to die and after that, the judgement" ( Hebrews 9:27). |
Re: Moses, Jesus, Then Other Claimed Prophets: by LagosShia: 12:30am On Dec 18, 2011 |
plappville: my friend you've met the wrong audience for your foolishness! if you accept that story/hadith happened at all,why do you follow your blind desire and hate to accept the part of it that suits your fantacies while you reject the other part that doesn't suit you? is that fair? the funnier part is that you base your conclusion on imagination.and besides,the story doesn't say he was "killed".it says he died.and then the earth rejected his body.and besides if any fantastic discovery of falsehood was found about Muhammad (sa) or observed in him,the first that would have rejected him and even harm him are the arabians who were a violent people. |
Re: Moses, Jesus, Then Other Claimed Prophets: by LagosShia: 12:33am On Dec 18, 2011 |
plappville:you're the one exposing yourself! he must have serious eye problem! take him to an optician ASAP.or may be you need a psychiatrist for not detecting he is trying to make you feel good about yourself. |
Re: Moses, Jesus, Then Other Claimed Prophets: by plappville(f): 12:39am On Dec 18, 2011 |
LagosShia:Funny! |
Re: Moses, Jesus, Then Other Claimed Prophets: by plappville(f): 12:55am On Dec 18, 2011 |
my friend you've met the wrong audience for your foolishness! The bolds are what u do with the bible. U re crying here, nothing suits me in the kuran. The christian man was killed by spiritual power.his death occured because he left Islam and was telling people what he saw in Islam. That man was a Christian before, can u imagin the bible study Muhammed had earned from that man? Someine who helped him in writhing things. Whaoo i see why some of the Kuran quotes look similar as the Bible. It is sad they killed that man. Islam has been, once u join us, u no longer leave, why becos u know all our secrets. If u must leave u must die. True or false @lagosShia? |
Re: Moses, Jesus, Then Other Claimed Prophets: by LagosShia: 1:09am On Dec 18, 2011 |
plappville:no madam! find me an instance where i added my imagination or hate to explain the bible verses. i only put them forth.they speak for themselves.do not be blinded by hate dear madam. so how do you conclude that spiritual power was not divine?
please can you tell us his name? and the hadith does not say Muhammad (sa) learnt from him.otherwise that christian was foolish to claim to have once being muslim!!! i,a proud muslim born and with conviction, have actually being exposing the "secrets" in the bible that christians dont want to read themselves or turn a blind eye to!!!! you can see them all here: https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-739943.0.html |
Re: Moses, Jesus, Then Other Claimed Prophets: by plappville(f): 12:05am On Dec 22, 2011 |
LagosShia: |
Re: Moses, Jesus, Then Other Claimed Prophets: by LagosShia: 11:33am On Dec 22, 2011 |
@Plappville. when you believe in something new,then you'd get something new.but when you believe in the old,then exposing falsehood would be the same. |
Re: Moses, Jesus, Then Other Claimed Prophets: by Nobody: 11:38am On Dec 22, 2011 |
@plappville Thanks for the good work. Just leave these people alone, their problem is spiritual, a blindness to their hearts , with prayer the veil of deception can be removed and they will be saved. God Bless. |
Re: Moses, Jesus, Then Other Claimed Prophets: by LagosShia: 11:58am On Dec 22, 2011 |
frosbel: Does the Bible God tempt people or not? Genesis 22:1 and James 1:13 God tempted Abraham (Genesis 22:1) - "Now it came about after these things, that God tested Abraham, and said to him, "Abraham!" And he said, "Here I am." The KJV says, "And it came to pass after these things, that God did tempt Abraham, and said unto him, Abraham: and he said, Behold, here I am" God tempts no one (James 1:13) - "Let no one say when he is tempted, “I am being tempted by God”; for God cannot be tempted by evil, and He Himself does not tempt anyone." BIBLE GOD DELUDES! 2 Thessalonians 2:11-12 11And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:12That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness. BIBLE GOD DECEIVES HIS PROPHETS Ezekiel 14:9 9And if the prophet be deceived when he hath spoken a thing, I the LORD have deceived that prophet, and I will stretch out my hand upon him, and will destroy him from the midst of my people Israel. BIBLE GOD LEADING PEOPLE ASTRAY John 12:40 He hath blinded their eyes, and hardened their heart; that they should not see with their eyes, nor understand with their heart, and be converted, and I should heal them. Isaiah 6:10 10Make the heart of this people fat, and make their ears heavy, and shut their eyes; lest they see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and convert, and be healed. Isaiah 29:10 10For the LORD hath poured out upon you the spirit of deep sleep, and hath closed your eyes: the prophets and your rulers, the seers hath he covered. |
Re: Moses, Jesus, Then Other Claimed Prophets: by plappville(f): 1:39pm On Dec 22, 2011 |
frosbel: You are right, they are spiritually blind. Thanks, God bless! |
Re: Moses, Jesus, Then Other Claimed Prophets: by LagosShia: 1:53pm On Dec 22, 2011 |
plappville: Jesus did not say the below about muslims,but about your likes: Matthew 7:21 "Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. Many will say to me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?'Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’ |
Re: Moses, Jesus, Then Other Claimed Prophets: by proo212(m): 2:11pm On Dec 22, 2011 |
Here comes Lagosshia again with ini mini maini mo, picking verse at random and trying to confuse himself. Did you read the verses in the context they were written? I will shout here and everyone else please permit me READ THE PASSAGES IN CONTEXT then you can discuss inerrancy if there is such a word Ezekiel 14 please start from verse 1 2 Thess 2, please start from verse 1 Gen 22:1 is "tested". God tested Abraham's faith in sacrificing "Isaac" the promised son (who you guys refuse to believe was the one to be sacrificed but quite convenient to quote to make God out to be what He is not). The same faith established him as a friend of God in the same book of James 2. All other translations used tested as opposed to tempted. When you bring up such things, I use the German bible translations to confirm the context. John 12:40, start from verse 37 to the end Isaiah 6:10, why don't you start from the beginning Isaiah 29:10, why don't you read the whole chapter to get the meaning? Incidentally verse 12 is one of the same verses you guys try to write your prophet into the bible. You guys are ridiculous, Some parts work for you but some parts don't. |
Re: Moses, Jesus, Then Other Claimed Prophets: by LagosShia: 2:17pm On Dec 22, 2011 |
proo212: no no no,you are wrong! i am talking of the "new covenant" while you are talking of the "old covenant". i am quoting from the "new testament" while you are quoting majorly from the "old testament". is that not the ridicule christians teach others? well,Jesus said he will rejected those who will claim to have followed him. |
Re: Moses, Jesus, Then Other Claimed Prophets: by proo212(m): 2:19pm On Dec 22, 2011 |
Matthew 7:21 You acknowledged that Jesus said this. I am sure you have read it again and again and if you cannot decipher and see the authority in this statement, then you have a problem . It establishes Jesus as God, the one who has the keys of heaven, the one who will cast out to hell fire, the one who knows the contents of your heart because in this passage it clearly states that the people say Lord to him but their hearts are elsewhere. The same Isaiah 29:10 you quoted and refused to look at verse 13, can you see how you're systematically hanging yourself? Did your prophet make such a claim anywhere in the quran?? 13The Lord says: “These people come near to me with their mouth and honor me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me. Their worship of me is made up only of rules taught by men.b |
Re: Moses, Jesus, Then Other Claimed Prophets: by proo212(m): 2:21pm On Dec 22, 2011 |
Mr Lagosshia, I asked you to read the very same verse you quoted to try and pull wool over my eyes and i asked you to read the same verses but read the surrounding passages to get the context. Who is talking about old and new covenant? |
Re: Moses, Jesus, Then Other Claimed Prophets: by LagosShia: 2:32pm On Dec 22, 2011 |
proo212: you have again gone forward to blaspheme that Jesus was implying he is "god". your dreams are magical! and even taking verse 13 into context,there is no other way to explain what Jesus is saying than seeing the obvious that there are people who claim to follow Jesus and he will deny them for whatever reason there is.and you are exactly one of them for your blasphemy and for not following the will of the "father". |
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