Khanben:



That is for people who did not watch it, he had the less talented team by a wide margin both times. The first one he was the 3rd best player on the floor through out the series Lebron and Bubble AD were on the other team and as for this one Jokic in his prime was on the other team

Great points but only few people will look at it that way.

It has to be said that he was poor in this series and the final games of the Celtics series. He looked out of sorts and played below his level and that would be talked about in the future.

Roland17:
Just like I said about playing on 2 feet for Butler. No one bit on the drive and the pump, he planted his feet and can’t play any other way..

Definitely a flaw on his game. The Nuggets did not bite on those fakes all series which meant Jimmy had to work for every bucket. Not sure he crossed 30 in any game and it was a huge reason why

Jokic status in the game all time is now up for debate, guaranteed top 10 center all time, arguably a top 5 center( the case can be made). A top 30 player all time and if he gets another one a top 15 is possible and a discussion will be had if he has overtaken KD

FT of FIBA U-16 Basketball championship final:
USA 118-36 Canada 😲🙆🏾😲

That’s what you call absolute destruction!!

So just like that KCP has 2 chips.

A40:
Definitely a flaw on his game. The Nuggets did not bite on those fakes all series which meant Jimmy had to work for every bucket. Not sure he crossed 30 in any game and it was a huge reason why

The thing is Denver had the good luck that their primary defender on Butler is not only taller than him, he is more athletic and one of his unique gifts is that he hardly jumps on pumps fakes. That is why nba basketball at it's highest level is about matchups and personnel

A40:
So just like that KCP has 2 chips.

2 more now, he go they on the same with leTravel

PDPGuy:
FT of FIBA U-16 Basketball championship final:
USA 118-36 Canada 😲🙆🏾😲

That’s what you call absolute destruction!!

That is what I keep telling people, it's the world as a whole that has caught up to the USA not one country, a talent pool of 350mil against 7.8billion

Roland17:


Great points but only few people will look at it that way.

It has to be said that he was poor in this series and the final games of the Celtics series. He looked out of sorts and played below his level and that would be talked about in the future.

Agree totally, there was reports of Ankle stuff during the Celtics series like game 5 or so. The Heat needs another guy, whether it is Dame or whoever they just need someone who can on their own create high quality offense

First in NBA history.

larride:
First in NBA history.

The boy is a beast

Immensely satisfying win for some of us Nuggets truthers that had seen potential in this Denver team since 2017/2018.

From when they had Murray/Jokic/Jerami Grant and Gary Harris then traded Harris for Aaron Gordon and lost Grant to Free Agency

It's been a long road. Trials and tribulations but really happy for them. Any long time follower of this thread knows I've been drumming up this team for a loooong time

Khanben:


Agree totally, there was reports of Ankle stuff during the Celtics series like game 5 or so. The Heat needs another guy, whether it is Dame or whoever they just need someone who can on their own create high quality offense

They need volume scoring from somewhere, preferably the guard position.

Khanben:


The thing is Denver had the good luck that their primary defender on Butler is not only taller than him, he is more athletic and one of his unique gifts is that he hardly jumps on pumps fakes. That is why nba basketball at it's highest level is about matchups and personnel

This Nuggets team injury permitting will be a problem for years to come. Personally I don't think they even played at their best in this series.

Their balance of size and shooting is very difficult to top. It will ultimately come down to their motivation and then injuries. Does Jamal Murray want to be Allstar All NBA, does MAGA Mike want to improve and get to All star level and does Jokic want to be like Tim Duncan.

It's rare to find a team where the smallest guy is 6'4. Which means finding mismatches will be difficult all their guys are mobile and big enough to guard multiple positions

donlittle25:
2 more now, he go they on the same with leTravel

You wan cause trouble. If him Bronsexual battalion show face my hand no dey ohhh.

Either way they are still paying for their comical overreaction losing to the Suns in 2021. Hurriedly went to offload KCP, Kuzma for Westbrook. Then traded Thomas Bryant to Denver who Denver ultimately didn't need but was another scoring big they could have thrown at Denver and Jokic

Sometimes you stay the course and make little changes when you understand the circumstances of your loss. They failed to do so and now they have at minimum set themselves back 3 years (that's assuming they win next year (Lord not willing))

A40:
This Nuggets team injury permitting will be a problem for years to come. Personally I don't think they even played at their best in this series.

Their balance of size and shooting is very difficult to top. It will ultimately come down to their motivation and then injuries. Does Jamal Murray want to be Allstar All NBA, does MAGA Mike want to improve and get to All star level and does Jokic want to be like Tim Duncan.

It's rare to find a team where the smallest guy is 6'4. Which means finding mismatches will be difficult all their guys are mobile and big enough to guard multiple positions

Their size is seriously underated. Personally that is why prefer tall players who can move their feet on defense, with just great effort that kind of player can automatically be an average defender, with coaching he can become a plus defender easily. We can see it in MPJ, Jamal and Jokic, not known for defense but their size and ability to move laterally for their position already gives them a huge starting point on turning into good defenders.
Going forward I doubt they can keep brown but I like what I saw from the rookie Braun, so that helps them there. If in FA all you are looking for is a 6th to 8th man, as a team you are good

Roland17:


They need volume scoring from somewhere, preferably the guard position.

Seriously, the person does not even need to be a great defender, just someone who is willing to put in effort on D and score efficiently at high volume.

donlittle25:
2 more now, he go they on the same with leTravel

This beans you are selecting pass wetin Hilda and Dammy cook eh!

Before the playoffs, I thought the best Teams were in the Eastern conference. Bucks, celtics, 76ers.
Boy was I wrong.

Khanben:
Jokic status in the game all time is now up for debate, guaranteed top 10 center all time, arguably a top 5 center( the case can be made). A top 30 player all time and if he gets another one a top 15 is possible and a discussion will be had if he has overtaken KD

Jokic has passed KD IMO. Anyone with even a ring as the undisputed top dawg head honcho is ahead of KD. So that means guys like Dirk, Giannis, Jokic

KD is dropping like stone rn especially with his lack of success without GSW and Golden State winning that title without him was just the worst possible outcome for his legacy

Centers
Kareem
Russell (I don't like counting that era ngl)
Shaq
Wilt
Olajuwon
Malone
Jokic

Now if Jokic theoretically gets another ring. He jumps ahead of Malone. If you say he's ahead of Malone now I won't argue but I still have Malone ahead for now. If he hits 3 rings and is FMVP all 3?? He will skip a lot of people and I'd put him right behind Shaq

A40:
Jokic has passed KD IMO. Anyone with even a ring as the undisputed top dawg head honcho is ahead of KD. So that means guys like Dirk, Giannis, Jokic

KD is dropping like stone rn especially with his lack of success without GSW and Golden State winning that title without him was just the worst possible outcome for his legacy

Centers
Kareem
Russell (I don't like counting that era ngl)
Shaq
Wilt
Olajuwon
Malone
Jokic

Now if Jokic theoretically gets another ring. He jumps ahead of Malone. If you say he's ahead of Malone now I won't argue but I still have Malone ahead for now. If he hits 3 rings and is FMVP all 3?? He will skip a lot of people and I'd put him right behind Shaq

Your centers list is same as mine, you can argue Malone and Jokic, I personally will take Jokic because he is easier to build around. As for him and KD, IMHO projecting forward, if he wins another ring and KD retires with just 2, then there is no argument, Jokic is absolutely better. But as it stands now, I say it's a toss-up

PS: I have the same issue with Bill Russell era of basketball. 8 teams and even some of your bench players are in the HOF.

Khanben:


Their size is seriously underated. Personally that is why prefer tall players who can move their feet on defense, with just great effort that kind of player can automatically be an average defender, with coaching he can become a plus defender easily. We can see it in MPJ, Jamal and Jokic, not known for defense but their size and ability to move laterally for their position already gives them a huge starting point on turning into good defenders.
Going forward I doubt they can keep brown but I like what I saw from the rookie Braun, so that helps them there. If in FA all you are looking for is a 6th to 8th man, as a team you are good

The size made a huge difference in this series. But I thought the Celtics had a bit of size advantage as well, how come they failed to use it is my question

Defense is really about effort. Even MAGA Mike when he shows some effort he looks like a half decent defender. Defense is 20% skill 80% will

Brown is a key player but he will not be an irreplaceable loss. Winning a title means they will definitely get willing veterans that will play under their market value for a shot at a ring

A40:
The size made a huge difference in this series. But I thought the Celtics had a bit of size advantage as well, how come they failed to use it is my question

Defense is really about effort. Even MAGA Mike when he shows some effort he looks like a half decent defender. Defense is 20% skill 80% will

Brown is a key player but he will not be an irreplaceable loss. Winning a title means they will definitely get willing veterans that will play under their market value for a shot at a ring

The zone was the Celtics Achilles heel. Zone defense can negate size differences (that is why it is a Shaq rule), and also make penetrative dribbles hard because players can easily collapse, that is why guys like Jalen who don't have tight handles always lose the ball in such situations.
Also the Celtics had no big man that could receive the ball in the low block or in the paint who is a capable scorer and passer. Whenever the Heat went Zone against the Celtics and AL got the ball without nobody within 3 ft of him, he could not even look at the rim and was just looking for someone to hot potato it to. When they tried it against Jokic, he just looked to score, if they collapse he passes out of it, if they leave him 1v1 it was barbecue chicken .

You cannot play zone against a player who is an excellent passer and who is comfortable taking both a 12-15ft midrange and also backing you down.

Khanben:


Your centers list is same as mine, you can argue Malone and Jokic, I personally will take Jokic because he is easier to build around. As for him and KD, IMHO projecting forward, if he wins another ring and KD retires with just 2, then there is no argument, Jokic is absolutely better. But as it stands now, I say it's a toss-up

PS: I have the same issue with Bill Russell era of basketball. 8 teams and even some of your bench players are in the HOF.

That's why I said I wouldn't dispute anyone having Jokic over Malone but Malone was a 3x MVP that got to multiple Finals and swept the Lakers (might have been a different Story if Worthy played)

I just go off the back of what Malone did with what he had

For me oh. I think he has passed KD. Had it been the Warriors never won another title his record would have been bullet proof. However the fact that they won again inside 3 seasons. Now KD can still pass Joker. But if you ask me now. This dominant showing from Joker without an MVP or All star teammate (even though we know Murray is an Allstar caliber guy) tops anything KD has done

A40:
The size made a huge difference in this series. But I thought the Celtics had a bit of size advantage as well, how come they failed to use it is my question

Defense is really about effort. Even MAGA Mike when he shows some effort he looks like a half decent defender. Defense is 20% skill 80% will

Brown is a key player but he will not be an irreplaceable loss. Winning a title means they will definitely get willing veterans that will play under their market value for a shot at a ring

Same opinion, also they just made a trade to get some future 1st from OKC, which if they continue to hit at the rate they've been might net them another rotation piece.

A40:
That's why I said I wouldn't dispute anyone having Jokic over Malone but Malone was a 3x MVP that got to multiple Finals and swept the Lakers (might have been a different Story if Worthy played)

I just go off the back of what Malone did with what he had

For me oh. I think he has passed KD. Had it been the Warriors never won another title his record would have been bullet proof. However the fact that they won again inside 3 seasons. Now KD can still pass Joker. But if you ask me now. This dominant showing from Joker without an MVP or All star teammate (even though we know Murray is an Allstar caliber guy) tops anything KD has done

The argument about him and KD is sound

Khanben:


Same opinion, also they just made a trade to get some future 1st from OKC, which if they continue to hit at the rate they've been might net them another rotation piece.

They have that Watson kid on the bench. Super athletic, not sure he's as good a ball handler as Brown but he has really really good potential. Brown is a second rounder I wouldn't fault him for maximising his earnings now that he has championship pedigree he will be hot cake

That pick from OKC might not be ready immediately. It's a late rounder but then again it's the Nuggets

A40:
They have that Watson kid on the bench. Super athletic, not sure he's as good a ball handler as Brown but he has really really good potential. Brown is a second rounder I wouldn't fault him for maximising his earnings now that he has championship pedigree he will be hot cake

That pick from OKC might not be ready immediately. It's a late rounder but then again it's the Nuggets

It's number 30, but with what Braun and those undrafted guys in the Heat have shown this playoffs. I see a return of teams picking 3-4 year college starters late in the 1st round

Khanben:



The zone was the Celtics Achilles heel. Zone defense can negate size differences (that is why it is a Shaq rule), and also make penetrative dribbles hard because players can easily collapse, that is why guys like Jalen who don't have tight handles always lose the ball in such situations.
Also the Celtics had no big man that could receive the ball in the low block or in the paint who is a capable scorer and passer. Whenever the Heat went Zone against the Celtics and AL got the ball without nobody within 3 ft of him, he could not even look at the rim and was just looking for someone to hot potato it to. When they tried it against Jokic, he just looked to score, if they collapse he passes out of it, if they leave him 1v1 it was barbecue chicken .

You cannot play zone against a player who is an excellent passer and who is comfortable taking both a 12-15ft midrange and also backing you down.

That's on offense. Me I know the drill. Any big that can even stand in the middle and can make smart decisions with the ball will easily crush the zone

What of defense? You could see apart from Game 2 in this Nuggets series they had really few uncontested 3s. I struggle to remember any point the Heat had any transition buckets.

On paper the Celtics have the better defense than Denver and yet in 5 games they were held under 100 4 times.

The Jaylen and Jayson dynamic IMO was a bigger problem. Especially with Jaylen's school boy handles.

Now on paper you would think two big two way wings the perfect scenario but the more I look the more I have to ask if it's a Kawhi and PG scenario. Two guys that basically do the same thing and cannot play off each other. Jokic and Murray had more assists to each other in Game 3 than Tatum and Brown did to each other the entire series. That was another huge problem

A40:
That's why I said I wouldn't dispute anyone having Jokic over Malone but Malone was a 3x MVP that got to multiple Finals and swept the Lakers (might have been a different Story if Worthy played)

I just go off the back of what Malone did with what he had

For me oh. I think he has passed KD. Had it been the Warriors never won another title his record would have been bullet proof. However the fact that they won again inside 3 seasons. Now KD can still pass Joker. But if you ask me now. This dominant showing from Joker without an MVP or All star teammate (even though we know Murray is an Allstar caliber guy) tops anything KD has done

Wait So Jokic is already Greater than KD and Giannis in your Books??

A40:
Abeg why is nobody talking about the Joker? Nikola Jokic. That boy is the sweetest and smoothest passing big man I have seen in a very long time.

Since 2017. We saw him coming

joshboo:



Wait So Jokic is already Greater than KD and Giannis in your Books??

Didn't say Giannis but yes he's passed KD. Any questions?