9jacrip:


[b]Mr. Katsumoto - you're someone whose post I usually read w/out questioning and just get to wonder if you studied history? From what you wrote as a response to my post, it appears you only have an INTEREST in history or just follow it, yes?

Like you said, historians get their details from relics and written materials from the era they're studying, yes and that is where Samuel Johnson's work falls in because he was ATTACHED to the periodization - I don't know how to explain it but true historians don't take account of their immediate era. You cited Aristotle, but I would cite Herodotus instead who is usually regarded as the 'father of history' by some, but some give that to someone else (can't recall the name) because Herodotus' accounts were taken down during his period, hence seen to be Chronicles rather than historical facts due to 'sentiments' attached which is only human. If you're asked to write about President Jonathan's tenure there would be sentiments either opposing or supporting, yes? But if you conduct interviews many years later and give two sides of the theme then it would become credible and open to further criticism which is only historical since no historical records are ever final - I hope I've made sense?

The Akinjogbin and co you cited were those who made Yoruba history credible because they did a thorough critique of Samuel Johnson's work or it served as a guiding point, and you didn't mention Toyin Falola, the foremost Yoruba historian? Kenneth Dike et al? The people you mentioned emerged as a result of an opposition to Eurocentric history documentation of Yoruba history which the Europeans had sway over - a typical example of Samuel Johnson's work.

Samuel Johnson's work cannot be disputed as the starting point for Yoruba history documentation but it is based on Oyo view point and [size=25pt]excessive mythology and legends rather than a deep analysis and critique[/size] - and in response to your Oyo being the most important Yoruba town at a time - Oyo came and went, there was Benin Kingdom too, it came and went - the history written by one of Benin Kings was so Benin-centric that almost all historian debunked it, I cant remember the king's name right now - Christina Amapour's work would be a Chronicle or Journalism - history is far different to/from Journalism, never make a mistake of comparing either, please.

What I'm saying is, Samuel Johnson's work should be cited mostly when pointing at/to an oral account -


Thank you.[/b]

What else can I say?

Katsumoto:

Of what use is a great product if it doesn't reach a high percentage of your target market?

This same argument goes on forever about jazz and classical music. A great product will always reach a high percentage of its target market, one way or the other, sooner or later.

zmoni:

There is a place in Sierra-Leone called Wellington, most of the inhabitants i believed are descendants of Ijesa, Ekiti and Ondo, those folk always say that their town is the birth place of the group or organization called" Ekitiparapo".

You generally have a lot of Saro people who answer Yoruba names but the younger ones don't know the meaning. Banana Island, which is not far from the capital, Freetown still has direct descendants of slaves who speak some Yoruba phrases till a few years ago when I was lucky to visit the island.

shymmex:

@Katsumoto

Can you please give talk about the Ioeru war

I'm interested in knowing the history of my people from the maternal side,

he he he

Katsumoto the storyteller

This is getting sooooo off-topic!  Yes, I concur that History and Politics almost always go together.  I majored in Political Science and half of my electives were History courses.

Sorry all.    I initially proposed the History section MAINLY because the Politics section here on Nairaland can be a hindrance to effectively discussing some of the issues that we're attempting to address this thread.  Now that we have been told that NL is actually leaning towards reducing the number of sections. . .  

Let's move on and return to the topic.  


P.S. Negro, you're a determined Omo Eko.    But I am not bothered either way.  People are becoming aware and a thirst for knowledge will only spring further.  The interweb is a huge place.   BTW, I think someone else first mentioned History section; I only expanded on his idea. 

edited

Quote from: OAM4J on Today at 08:32:05 PM

There is no need to have History section when there is a Culture section. I doubt that request will be granted. So don't waste your time.


It should not be a waste of time.
i second the request and hope it will be carefully and positively considered by Seun either as a completely separate section or as a mini-section under culture, at the least.

We can try and make a case for having some of the threads in Politics section possibly with the library thread. What am not sure will sell is having history section.

Reaching the target market is a better argument than the claim of history being closer related to politics than culture. Not many people will agree with that.

OAM4J,

If you read responses on this thread you will no doubt understand the sentiments and the awakening it has generated.  I want you to be open, please do not premeptively shut down the idea.  True, some sections are collapsing into more popular and bigger channels on NL but that decision is probably for context and structure, rather than consumption.  This initiative will be for the consumption and education of the race.  Look at the audience in here. . . we have politicians, historians, writers, lawyers, doctors, administrators, bankers. . . and so on.  I am yet to read a Yoruba respondent that did not enjoy or take pride in this Kiriji topic.  Tony Spike, God Bless you!

There are ideas to open more topics and discuss history. . . .How did the heavy losses in war affect gender balance in society and the resulting kinship and social supports?What were the military formations - Balogun, Otun Balogun, Osi Balogun. . and so on?  what does Aare Ona Kakanfo mean and what was the origin of it?  Kakanfo must be a place. . .where is it?    What does Araba mean and where is the origin of it?  Ogboni is our traditional judicial system and its a lodge. . . . what is the creed of their order  and why?   Now that Ifa and Yoruba culture has spread worldwide is there value to promoting a pilgrimage in Yorubaland?   Through these discussions can we bridge understanding and closeness with Yorubas in Cuba, Brazilil, Puerto Rico, Miami, Carolina and other places who are hungry to know more about their ancestral home?

Like Katz said, there is a market. . . . and the Yoruba crowd in here are the suppliers, we are only needing a storefront from where the inter-exchange can take place.  You and your fellow moderators and Seun as well, have the power and discretion to give us that storefront.  

Here is the format we are requesting:   Nairaland Forum > Nairaland General >  Yoruba History.

Isale Gan, You had a good idea with that proposal and I support it. As you see, its gaining support. OAM4J's response is a pushback and of course, is expected as part of negotiating. Dont worry bro, we are behind you. I will fire OAM4J if he doesnt make this initiative happen for us. In fact, I tell you what. . . I will personally take the next Yoruba war to his homeland. Somebody tell me how much swords cost these days, I need a double edged!

Just want to mention to people using google to search contents about Oyo. There were varieties of spellings used by Europeans that could not articulate the name properly. Try the following: Awyaw Kingdom, Awyaw Empire, Awyo Kingdom, Owyo Kingdom, and so on.

Pls talk 2 people like Adebayo Faleti& Prof Akinwumi Ishola they can help u out of ur findings hw be; pls let us know.

Negro_Ntns:

Isale Gan, You had a good idea with that proposal and I support it.  As you see, its gaining support.  OAM4J's response is a pushback and of course, is expected as part of negotiating.  Dont worry bro, we are behind you.     I will fire OAM4J if he doesnt make this initiative happen for us.    In fact, I tell you what. . . I will personally take the next Yoruba war to his homeland.  Somebody tell me how much swords cost these days, I need a double edged!  

I guess you missed this:

OAM4J:

Well there is no harm in trying. I am only giving an insider information as a moderator. The Aim right now is to reduce the sections for easier management and not to add more (If you noticed lately, some sections are being merged). Also we don't have history threads coming up everyday.

I support having the Yoruba history library thread, and we can also advocate that the thread be stickied.

But then you can open a thread in Nairaland Section requesting for history Section. I will actually be glad it is granted. So I wish you good luck.

Bro, what you seek is beyond my powers. Only Admin has the power to create a new section. The starting point is to open a thread requesting for it in general section. If you and many others are able to make a strong case for it, it will be granted. You can also count on my support.  

Unfortunately bringing the next Yoruba war to my homeland is same as bringing it to your homeland. You, Isale_gan2 and I are from Lagos. I am proudly from Epetedo. Eko o ni baje  

BTW, Isale gan is not a bro, Isale gan2 is a SHE, I was already discussing with Oba of Lagos about marrying her before she dumped my broke ass for  . . . i dont know who  

Thanks, will address it to the Admin.

Unfortunately bringing the next Yoruba war to my homeland is same as bringing it to your homeland. You, Isale_gan2 and I are from Lagos. I am proudly from Epetedo. Eko o ni baje

What part in Epetedo? My mother is from Epetedo and I spent part of my childhood there with my grandparents. Always going between Isale Eko and Epetedo, from Abari in Epetedo to Ebute Ero in Isale Eko. . . I owned that whole sector. It was hard getting in trouble because almost everybody knew my parents and almost always reported my mischiefs.

On Isale Gan, thanks for letting me know and I hope you did not miss where she said she and I might be related.

Interesting thread! Surely added value to the stories i have heard and the history books i read in the past.

@OAMJ4
Since history is no longer a subject in our schools, NL can create a history section where all threads relating to our origin and past activities can be posted. This in addition to the culture section which should focus more on arts, music and our way of life can serve as a good source of information to the younger generation. Also a good source of research findings for interested scholars.

Lets help our younger ones learn about their roots better. You have to consider the past to plan well for the future.

A request has been submitted to Admin in Nairaland/general section for a Yoruba History home. Add your voice to the initiative. The idea was proposed by Isale Gan. Here is link. https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-868158.0.html#msg10169821 Thanks.

Since history is no longer a subject in our schools,

Really? Secondary School? No way, is this true? When did that happen?

Wow!  See campaign.   But I have to clarify, that I was supporting the move for an all-inclusive History section or subsection (of _ _?), and not one just for Yorubas.  No offense.   Good luck all the same.   

OAM4J:

BTW, Isale gan is not a bro, Isale gan2 is a SHE, I was already discussing with Oba of Lagos about marrying her before she dumped my broke Bottom for  . . . i dont know who 

You better stop.  "Communists" don't care about money or who's a broke bottom and who's driving a benz.  Tell another story!    You prob don't even know if I'm girl or guy. 

edited

Negro_Ntns:

Yes, a Yoruba History container, that's right!  How many of these 250 ethnic groups has the depth and broadness of histroy as Yoruba, particularly for a race of people that fought over 30 different wars and created world renowned empires - Ife, Oyo and Bini?  [size=25pt]You see this is one of the damages and disadvantages of cohabiting in Nigeria with inferior sub cultures crowned overnight and made a majority by British[/size].  We have always to ret/ard our own progress because the others are not caught on yet,  . . they are still in the dark, and untill they see the light, we have to remain in the dark with them.  I want my own country!    

https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-490918.2816.html


I'm not surprised by the above comment.

This is what you get after being fed with katsumoto's feel-good, ethnocentric, supremacist myths

history is no longer a subject in our schools,

no wonder.


that explains a lot.

nice tread

tpia@:



no wonder.


that explains a lot.

Sorry for the mix-up. Was told that history is still available as an option at O and A levels, included as part of Social Studies at JSS and primary school levels. Not much of what we are learning on NL about the history of our various nationalities is reflected in what they are thought to the best of my knowledge. Current undergraduates/jambites can enlighten us further.

Methinks having a history section/subsection where we can read well researched stories of our heroes and villains past will afford many younger ones easy access to information about their roots rather than the biased and divisive stories told by some parents which breeds hatred and bitterness. We are better off understanding how we got to this point to plan how to move forward.

At least i have understood how and why Yorubas learnt to be more patient (the ignorant see it as cowardice), more accomodating, fight more diplomatically and strategically even when unarmed (e.g. June 12) and unite as neccesary despite our differences. The strong ties and language affinity of Ijeshas and Ekiti kete is also clear. I would like to learn so much more about Yoruba history along with those of other nationalities . Its good for the future.

The yoruba kiriji war is just history repeating itself, in the mid to late 19th century Ibadan was the executor of Alafin Oyo edicts in yoruba land, earlier, Owu Iponle was the executor of alafins edits in yoruba land, Owu was destroyed in a genocidal war, from all directions, Ibadan faced the same fate but survived,,

Give way please!

SUbscribing, carry on katsumotu n co

Wow, after a loooooooooooooooong time I feel totally relieved because I could read a well focused thread. While most of the information, references and accounts given on this thread are not new to me. I feel impressed and proud to have strong history enthusiasts pouring out knowledge uncontrollably here considering the effect of modernization on this generation.
Furthermore, this may be a Yoruba history focused thread, but it is equally an avenue to propel a constructive approach in reviewing other African and world cultural histories. Kudos to the starter, Kats, Negro, Isale gan and a host of others for a serious and educative job well done.

thanks guysssssssssssssssss, ;d ;d ;d ;d,proudly omo oduduwa

Regarding my comment about making this "History of the Yorubas" book publicly available, here is what I have so far:

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/40560748/hty.pdf

(2 megabyte PDF)

Going to require a lot effort to fix the OCR errors, though. Hopefully i can figure out a way to distribute this work among many people, wikipedia style. . .

If I do figure out such a way, then perhaps some of you would be interesting in helping.

ekt_bear:

Regarding my comment about making this "History of the Yorubas" book publicly available, here is what I have so far:

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/40560748/hty.pdf

(2 megabyte PDF)

Going to require a lot effort to fix the OCR errors, though. Hopefully i can figure out a way to distribute this work among many people, wikipedia style. . .

If I do figure out such a way, then perhaps some of you would be interesting in helping.

I'm not a techie, but I'm ready to help, sign me up. I can learn and I can type when I'm free.

Sweet. I'm using latex for the typesetting, since it allows rendering of diacritic marks easily (and also produces much sexier looking books than any other solution.)

When I find a good way to collaboratively edit the tex, I'll set things up, post here again and then get in touch with you.

Will probably be a couple weeks or so though. . . not much free time these days ;/

^
Ok I'll keep checking back then. Yes make it sexy, we need people to access and use it easily.

BTW, do you know if the copyright has expired on the book? I know it's valid for about 20+ years or so in some jurisdictions then it can enter into the public domain stage.

his book was published in the 1910s or 1920s, so it is now in the PD

ekt_ ,

Good job and yes, I would be willing to help but I have a question. Would it not be a good thing, beside fixing the typo errors, to also have a universal understanding or at least a deliberation towards creating some understanding on the roots and meaning of names and titles. For instance, the name Adimu, as well titles such as Seriki, Are and so on. In addition, how far do you want to go in identifying and including historical materials for all lands and people inclusive in the commonwealth of Yorubaland?

Those are all probably admirable goals. Mine is much less ambitious. . . I just want to basically produce a high-quality version of Johnson's book, one comparable to say this.
But instead make this version freely available online for download, reading, etc.

So the name of the game is:

1. Compare page X (X=1, 2, etc) of this PDF above to corresponding page of the book scanned PDF
2. Note any errors/typos from the OCR process
3. Fix errors

^

Good plan.

ekt_,

I applaud your initiative and effort. Every step anyone of us who pride in the legacy of Oduduwa take toward elevating and improving the Yoruba appeal to the world, no matter how small it is. . . .is a monumental leap and must be acknowledged and given recognition.

Thanks for clarifying and I will still help if Im needed.