dademola: ur lies r legendary! In these matches, did utd play wit 2 cmfs? Didnt i say earlier dt in away games against top sides, fergie usualy opted for a 3man CMF? U claim hargo is blahblahblah....why did fergie hav to include anderson in d these matches, despite d fact hargo started?

I think it is uncivil to tell another person that he is lying when you are having an arguement or discussion, we all see things in different ways and the fact that another person sees things differently doesn't make him a liar. *just saying*

dademola: where is d contradiction?? i sed in regular matches, fergie usually played 442 with scholes and carrick. in difficult away games, he usually opted to add an extra man in midfield! did i type it in chinese earlier? u claim hargo was da bomb!! if he was dt superb, y did fergie deploy him in a 3 man midfield in a good number of d big away matches?? against barca both home and away, y did fergie decide not to play hargo in mf, but at RB, despite having oshea on d bench in both matches?most importantly; in d final, y did fergie deploy him on d rhs of mf??

1. In the away games against Arsenal and Liverpool, SAF played only Hargreaves and Anderson.

2. Against Barca, SAF knew Oshea wouldn't be able to stop Messi and Iniester who both love capitalizing on the right back. SAF needed a strong man as Hargreaves to clip Messi's left foot.

elampiro:

I guess you didn't read my post correctly.

Hagreaves was paired with Anderson against Arsenal in Emirate while Carrick and Scholes sat out.

Hargreaves was paired with Anderson in Anfield while Scholes and Carrick sat out again.

Hargreaves and Carrick paired against Totteham while Scholes came in as sub for Carrick.

The above are big games, and virtually in all other big games Carrick and Scholes played, SAF gave them a third man midfielder to help them in tackling battles because they were weak in that area.

My point is, Hargreaves got selected ahead of the rest midfield players and he delivered. It was evident, except narrow minded fans sailed to see that.

doesnt this statement reek of sheer ignorance??

dademola: doesnt this statement reek of sheer ignorance??

That was true. He only missed/rested in matches due to his injury management. Fact! He was given the big games while he was rested in small games. I have just given you the Arsenal and Liverpool games as examples.

elampiro:

1. In the away games against Arsenal and Liverpool, SAF played only Hargreaves and Anderson.

2. Against Barca, SAF knew Oshea wouldn't be able to stop Messi and Iniester who both love capitalizing on the right back. SAF needed a strong man as Hargreaves to clip Messi's left foot.

in a bid to win an arguement, just look at wot u posted?did u actually proof-read this before posting??

elampiro:
At one point, you said Scholes and Kean were our best. So why the change in opinion now? Just to align yourself with others to team up in your attack against me? It wont work.

that era has long gone - who reckons with the era when only arsenal & united were the title contenders? we are talking about the last 10 years(the roman era). the only reason united won the league titles then was because arsenal pressed the self-destruct button & vice versa. that was how awful the rest of the league were.

Your argument that SAF liked to give his new signings run of games is baseless. Go and ask Kagawa.

kagawa got injured - up until his injury, he started 6 of the 7 league games. ferguson rewards the players who do well and he doesn't change his policy until someone gets injured & his replacement also performs very well & makes it difficult for the manager to return back to the injured player. even after cleverley came back from his injury in 2011/12, fergie never used him & anderson again cos by then, cleverley's replacement performed reasonably well. whereas, before cleverley's injury, they kept the almighty carrick on the bench.

Also Hargreaves was rested in many games to manage his injury.

he wasn't rested to manage any injury...stop lying on these pages. united had a big squad and their involvement in europe tends to influence who starts the weekend games after getting involved in tough midweek european nights.

dademola: in a bid to win an arguement, just look at wot u posted?did u actually proof-read this before posting??

that's his modus operandi....
look at the nonsense he wrote up there when we all know as at 07/08, messi was rijkaard's man on the right wing and his duel on the night was against patrice evra!!!

elampiro:

That was true. He only missed/rested in matches due to his injury management. Fact! He was given the big games while he was rested in small games. I have just given you the Arsenal and Liverpool games as examples.

d same way scholes was rested cos his legs needed some freshness!! u keep evading questions on d chelsea game in moscow

dademola: in a bid to win an arguement, just look at wot u posted?did u actually proof-read this before posting??

I don't get it.

At the time, Messi terrorises from the flank before drifting inward. Messi had a field day against Evra on the night but was disciplined by Hargreaves when he tried that angle.

coogar:

that era has long gone - who reckons with the era when only arsenal & united were the title contenders? we are talking about the last 10 years(the roman era). the only reason united won the league titles then was because arsenal pressed the self-destruct button & vice versa. that was how awful the rest of the league were.



kagawa got injured - up until his injury, he started 6 of the 7 league games. ferguson rewards the players who do well and he doesn't change his policy until someone gets injured & his replacement also performs very well & makes it difficult for the manager to return back to the injured player. even after cleverley came back from his injury in 2011/12, fergie never used him & anderson again cos by then, cleverley's replacement performed reasonably well. whereas, before cleverley's injury, they kept the almighty carrick on the bench.



he wasn't rested to manage any injury...stop lying on these pages. united had a big squad and their involvement in europe tends to influence who starts the weekend games after getting involved in tough midweek european nights.



that's his modus operandi....
look at the nonsense he wrote up there when we all know as at 07/08, messi was rijkaard's man on the right wing and his duel on the night was against patrice evra!!!

dts wot u get frm smeone who fixates his eyes only on rooney wen watching utd matches.

dademola: d same way scholes was rested cos his legs needed some freshness!! u keep evading questions on d chelsea game in moscow

You mean Scholes and Carrick rested at same time? Wow! More credit to Hargteaves.

In Moscow, we had three midfielders on the field. Hargreaves took over 30% of the defensive midfield in addition to his role of running to the right and stopping Cole and Lampard from causing havoc. If SAF didn't want to be defence minded, he would have opted for Nani who was in fine form.

dademola: dts wot u get frm smeone who fixates his eyes only on rooney wen watching utd matches.

elampiro does not watch united games. i am not convinced he does - he's lied a lot on these pages, i am starting to think he just trolls everyone here for the fun of it.

elampiro:
Hargreaves was paired with Anderson in Anfield while Scholes and Carrick sat out again.

this is another lie from the pits of hell - scholes did not sit out in big games. scholes did not take part at anfield & the emirates because a knee injury kept him out from october 2007 till january 2008.(he missed 13 league games in this period which is 1/3 of the entire season).

when he came back from injury, he played in every big game bar the chelsea away game that was sandwiched between the 2 legs against barcelona in the semis of the champions league.

coogar:

that era has long gone - who reckons with the era when only arsenal & united were the title contenders? we are talking about the last 10 years(the roman era). the only reason united won the league titles then was because arsenal pressed the self-destruct button & vice versa. that was how awful the rest of the league were.



kagawa got injured - up until his injury, he started 6 of the 7 league games. ferguson rewards the players who do well and he doesn't change his policy until someone gets injured & his replacement also performs very well & makes it difficult for the manager to return back to the injured player. even after cleverley came back from his injury in 2011/12, fergie never used him & anderson again cos by then, cleverley's replacement performed reasonably well. whereas, before cleverley's injury, they kept the almighty carrick on the bench.



he wasn't rested to manage any injury...stop lying on these pages. united had a big squad and their involvement in europe tends to influence who starts the weekend games after getting involved in tough midweek european nights.



that's his modus operandi....
look at the nonsense he wrote up there when we all know as at 07/08, messi was rijkaard's man on the right wing and his duel on the night was against patrice evra!!!

I am not interested in this piece by piece, bit by bit style of argument. It is hard to read. It consumes time.

However let me manage to respond.

1. How many months was Kagawa injured?

2. Everyone knew Hargreaves was injured and managing his kneel. He was even out for almost 3 months at a stretch.

3. A review of games played by Hargreaves would revealed he was mostly (if not only) used for the big games. You should realise he was involved in all the UCL knockout matches, but rested in the small league games in between.

elampiro:

You mean Scholes and Carrick rested at same time? Wow! More credit to Hargteaves.

In Moscow, we had three midfielders on the field. Hargreaves took over 30% of the defensive midfield in addition to his role of running to the right and stopping Cole and Lampard from causing havoc. If SAF didn't want to be defence minded, he would have opted for Nani who was in fine form.

serzly, must u say things like this, all in the nme of winning an arguement??and u're d same person dt preaches objectivity on these pages!! smh

elampiro:

I am not interested in this piece by piece, bit by bit style of argument. It is hard to read. It consumes time.

However let me manage to respond.

1. How many months was Kagawa injured?

2. Everyone knew Hargreaves was injured and managing his kneel. He was even out for almost 3 months at a stretch.

3. A review of games played by Hargreaves would revealed he was mostly (if not only) used for the big games. You should realise he was involved in all the UCL knockout matches, but rested in the small league games in between.

coogar:

elampiro does not watch united games. i am not convinced he does - he's lied a lot on these pages, i am starting to think he just trolls everyone here for the fun of it.



this is another lie from the pits of hell - scholes did not sit out in big games. scholes did not take part at anfield & the emirates because a knee injury kept him out from october 2007 and january 2008.

when he came back from injury, he played in every big game bar the chelsea away game that was sandwiched between the 2 legs against barcelona in the semis of the champions league.

9th April Man U 1 Roma 0

Man Utd: Van der Sar, Brown, Pique, Ferdinand, Silvestre, Hargreaves, Park, Carrick (O'Shea 74), Anderson (Neville 81), Giggs (Rooney 74), Tevez.
Subs Not Used: Kuszczak, Ronaldo, Scholes, Welbeck.

...................................................

Man United 1 Lyon 0 4th March

Man Utd: Van der Sar, Brown, Ferdinand, Vidic, Evra, Fletcher, Carrick, Anderson (Tevez 70), Ronaldo (Hargreaves 90), Rooney, Nani.

Subs Not Used: Kuszczak, Saha, Park, Scholes, O'Shea.

.........................

You have already mentioned the Chelsea match above. Chelsea match is a big match. How come he didn't even make the bench?

Man Utd: Van der Sar, Brown, Ferdinand, Vidic (Hargreaves 14), Silvestre, Fletcher, Carrick, Anderson (O'Shea 65), Nani, Rooney (Ronaldo 63), Giggs.
Subs Not Used: Kuszczak, Tevez.



But don't forget too, Carrick was on the bench against Arsenal and Liverpool, while it was still he Scholes substituted against Spurs.

dademola: serzly, must u say things like this, all in the nme of winning an arguement??and u're d same person dt preaches objectivity on these pages!! smh

Go and watch the game again, then come back and tell me what you see.

elampiro:
I am not interested in this piece by piece, bit by bit style of argument. It is hard to read. It consumes time.

if you are not interested, stop misinforming the public. you lied to us hargreaves was started to clip messi's left foot then quickly changed it to "when messi tried to switch flanks to hargreaves' side". the world is watching you, stop lying.

However let me manage to respond.
1. How many months was Kagawa injured?

that's immaterial - he started 6 in 7 league games. the only league game he missed was as a result of his midweek involvement against galatasaray in elite europe, thus missing against wigan

2. Everyone knew Hargreaves was injured and managing his kneel. He was even out for almost 3 months at a stretch.

hargreaves was out for 3 months at a stretch? another lie from the pits of hell, the longest hargreaves had at a stretch was 5 league games.(sep 15 to oct 20) - which was just one month.

3. A review of games played by Hargreaves would revealed he was mostly (if not only) used for the big games. You should realise he was involved in all the UCL knockout matches, but rested in the small league games in between.

he wasn't used more than the others in big games. scholes was the most trusted in big games. scholes was the only midfielder that featured in all the big games that season minus the chelsea away game. hargreaves did not start against liverpool at OT & he was also on the bench against spurs @ white hart lane.

elampiro:

How many times did SAF play 2 man midfield in big games?

Particularly in 2007/8, it was always 3 man midfield with Carrick/Hargreaves and Scholes the preferred. But Anderson had his fair share while Park and Fletcher played some roles too. Hargreaves and Scholes both started 24 league matches in 2007/8. Hargreaves played in the base far more than he played in the apex.

How many big games did Man Utd played in 2007/2008? How many did SAF featured three midfielders that included Hargreaves? You were only able to list three games for that season and the fact is that Man Utd played 52 games in all competition in that season. How come it is only three big games you were able to show the line ups?

That is not convincing enough to tell me that it was only in the big games that Hargreaves was feature as if he was the most important of the midfielders.

As a matter of fact SAF played 4-4-2 more than any other formation and Carrick/Scholes combo was the most played combo in that season. Fergie only adopted three midfielders in difficult games and not necessarily featuring Hargreaves in all.

elampiro:


9th April Man U 1 Roma 0

Man Utd: Van der Sar, Brown, Pique, Ferdinand, Silvestre, Hargreaves, Park, Carrick (O'Shea 74), Anderson (Neville 81), Giggs (Rooney 74), Tevez.
Subs Not Used: Kuszczak, Ronaldo, Scholes, Welbeck.

...................................................

Man United 1 Lyon 0 4th March

Man Utd: Van der Sar, Brown, Ferdinand, Vidic, Evra, Fletcher, Carrick, Anderson (Tevez 70), Ronaldo (Hargreaves 90), Rooney, Nani.

Subs Not Used: Kuszczak, Saha, Park, Scholes, O'Shea.

.........................

You have already mentioned the Chelsea match above. Chelsea match is a big match. How come he didn't even make the bench?

Man Utd: Van der Sar, Brown, Ferdinand, Vidic (Hargreaves 14), Silvestre, Fletcher, Carrick, Anderson (O'Shea 65), Nani, Rooney (Ronaldo 63), Giggs.
Subs Not Used: Kuszczak, Tevez.

d league title was virtually done n dusted as @ dt time!! even frm d line up, u cld see fergie had his sights somewhere else!!nawa for u oo!! r u really a man utd fan??

coogar:

if you are not interested, stop misinforming the public. you lied to us hargreaves was started to clip messi's left foot then quickly changed it to "when messi tried to switch flanks to hargreaves' side". the world is watching you, stop lying.



that's immaterial - he started 6 in 7 league games. the only league game he missed was as a result of his midweek involvement against galatasaray in elite europe, thus missing against wigan



hargreaves was out for 3 months at a stretch? another lie from the pits of hell, the longest hargreaves had at a stretch was 5 league games.(sep 15 to oct 20) - which was just one month.



he wasn't used more than the others in big games. scholes was the most trusted in big games. scholes was the only midfielder that featured in all the big games that season minus the chelsea away game. hargreaves did not start against liverpool at OT & he was also on the bench against spurs @ white hart lane.

What do you mean by misinforming the public? You that said Mourinho never kicked a ball. Yet you keep taking delight in calling people liars.

Anyone who thinks Mourinho never kicked a ball is not even qualified to argue football. That was a fatal error.

How many games did Kagawa play all season, and for how long was he injured?

elampiro:
9th April Man U 1 Roma 0

Man Utd: Van der Sar, Brown, Pique, Ferdinand, Silvestre, Hargreaves, Park, Carrick (O'Shea 74), Anderson (Neville 81), Giggs (Rooney 74), Tevez.
Subs Not Used: Kuszczak, Ronaldo, Scholes, Welbeck....................................................

the tortuous knots this dude keep tying himself. united vs roma that season was a dead rubber game. we had won 2-0 in italy. as you can see for yourself, cristiano & rooney did not even start the game. there goes your window of lies.

Man United 1 Lyon 0 4th March

Man Utd: Van der Sar, Brown, Ferdinand, Vidic, Evra, Fletcher, Carrick, Anderson (Tevez 70), Ronaldo (Hargreaves 90), Rooney, Nani.

Subs Not Used: Kuszczak, Saha, Park, Scholes, O'Shea.
.........................

do you even read what you type? you are putting a game hargreaves only came on in the 90th minute? so in your mind, hargreaves substitution in the added time is a good explanation that he's preferred in big games?

You have already mentioned the Chelsea match above. Chelsea match is a big match. How come he didn't even make the bench?

he didn't make the bench cos he's 34 and fergie had plans for him at old trafford - which was why he got the winner against barca. all the players that didn't take part at the stamford bridge were our best players against barcelona. we could afford to lose against chelsea, barcelona was the focus.

Man Utd: Van der Sar, Brown, Ferdinand, Vidic (Hargreaves 14), Silvestre, Fletcher, Carrick, Anderson (O'Shea 65), Nani, Rooney (Ronaldo 63), Giggs.
Subs Not Used: Kuszczak, Tevez.

ronaldo & tevez did not start at stamford bridge, that says it all. when you want to grapple at straws in an argument, do it on facebook. the match against chelsea was never a priority in 2007/8, otherwise tevez would have taken part & ronaldo wouldn't come on in the 63rd minute in a game you told us was a big game.

But don't forget too, Carrick was on the bench against Arsenal and Liverpool, while it was still he Scholes substituted against Spurs.

this is irrelevant - you had told us hargreaves was the main man in our midfield and i have punctured your lies that he was not.

Fabville:

How many big games did Man Utd played in 2007/2008? How many did SAF featured three midfielders that included Hargreaves? You were only able to list three games for that season and the fact is that Man Utd played 52 games in all competition in that season. How come it is only three big games you were able to show the line ups?

That is not convincing enough to tell me that it was only in the big games that Hargreaves was feature as if he was the most important of the midfielders.

As a matter of fact SAF played 4-4-2 more than any other formation and Carrick/Scholes combo was the most played combo in that season. Fergie only adopted three midfielders in difficult games and not necessarily featuring Hargreaves in all.

Now you want to derail the argument to formation. I keep that for another day. Even dademola already said United played 3 man midfield in big/away games.

Now, the big games I listed were the ones Hargreaves played without either or both Scholes and Carrick. He also played against- Liverpool, Totteham, Chelsea, Arsenal and many others in the EPL. He played against Lyon, Roma, Barcelona and Chelsea in the UCL. He played one or two group matches too.

elampiro:
What do you mean by misinforming the public? You that said Mourinho never kicked a ball. Yet you keep taking delight in calling people liars.

i said mourinho didn't kick a ball at the top level and yet he's one of the best managers in the world - i stand by my quote. it's quite different to telling us that scholes sat out big games when he was injured for more than 1/3 of the season with a knee problem.

Anyone who thinks Mourinho never kicked a ball is not even qualified to argue football. That was a fatal error.

hahahahaha - the dude has resorted to grappling at straws again. hargreaves had a 3-month stretch injury in 07/08? come on - do you lie for a living?

How many games did Kagawa play all season, and for how long was he injured?

it's immaterial - kagawa started 6 of his first 7 league games before his injury. that's how much fergie likes to overplay his new big signings. he plays them till they adapt to man utd(injury-permitting)!

coogar:

the tortuous knots this dude keep tying himself. united vs roma that season was a dead rubber game. we had won 2-0 in italy. as you can see for yourself, cristiano & rooney did not even start the game. there goes your window of lies.



do you even read what you type? you are putting a game hargreaves only came on in the 90th minute? so in your mind, hargreaves substitution in the added time is a good explanation that he's preferred in big games?



he didn't make the bench cos he's 34 and fergie had plans for him at old trafford - which was why he got the winner against barca. all the players that didn't take part at the stamford bridge were our best players against barcelona. we could afford to lose against chelsea, barcelona was the focus.



ronaldo & tevez did not start at stamford bridge, that says it all. when you want to grapple at straws in an argument, do it on facebook. the match against chelsea was never a priority in 2007/8, otherwise tevez would have taken part & ronaldo wouldn't come on in the 63rd minute in a game you told us was a big game




this is irrelevant - you had told us hargreaves was the main man in our midfield and i have punctured your lies that he is not.

[b]Whenever you argue in bits like this, I won't always be able to respond. I could not even read, but my eyes catches something I just want to respond to.

Hargreaves was our strongest midfielder in 2008. SAF was comfortable adding anyone with him for a two man midfield. But he needed a third midfielder for Scholes and Carrick. FACT![/b]

dademola: d league title was virtually done n dusted as @ dt time!! even frm d line up, u cld see fergie had his sights somewhere else!!nawa for u oo!! r u really a man utd fan??

Did he also have his mind somewhere in Rome and against Lyon?

elampiro:
Whenever you argue in bits like this, I won't always be able to respond. I could not even read, but my eyes catches something I just want to respond to.

how can you respond when i have just proven you are a fraud when it comes to analysing man utd. you don't need to respond - i am not here to have a chat with you, i came here to school you on united's recent history.

Hargreaves was our strongest midfielder in 2008. SAF was comfortable adding anyone with him for a two man midfield. But he needed a third midfielder for Scholes and Carrick. FACT!

another lie from the pits of hell....
united won in moscow by playing carrick & scholes in the midfield to combat chelsea's powerful midfield and the duo coped well with chelsea. hargreaves was kept away from the centre of the field. he was not a defensive midfielder against chelsea. - it's funny how our "strongest" midfielder was only useful on the right side of the midfield & not as a hatchet man.

coogar:

how can you respond when i have just proven you are a fraud when it comes to analysing man utd. you don't need to respond - i am not here to have a chat with you, i came here to school you on united's recent history.



another lie from the pits of hell....
united won in moscow by playing carrick & scholes in the midfield to combat chelsea's powerful midfield and the duo coped well with chelsea. hargreaves was kept away from the centre of the field. he was not a defensive midfielder against chelsea. - it's funny how our "strongest" midfielder was only useful on the right side of the midfield & not as a hatchet man.

Go and rewatch the the UCL final match and see how much of defence work Hargreaves did. Forget about charts. He battled all night, even more than those who were supposed to be in the base of the midfield. Her was such a genius to us that year.

elampiro:
Go and rewatch the the UCL final match and see how much of defence work Hargreaves did. Forget about charts. He battled all night, even more than those who were supposed to be in the base of the midfield. Her was such a genius to us that year.

if he didn't play as a defensive midfielder in united's biggest game that season then it simply shows scholes & carrick were more trusted in the centre of the pitch than owen hargreaves. hargreaves put the same work effort as tevez, rooney, ronaldo on the night. the real heroes were the watercarriers(scholes & carrick). it couldn't have been easy for the duo to combat lampard + ballack + makelele.

elampiro:

Now you want to derail the argument to formation. I keep that for another day.

Now, the big games I listed were the ones Hargreaves played without either or both Scholes and Carrick. He played against- Liverpool, Totteham, Chelsea, Arsenal and many others in the EPL. He played against Lyon, Roma, Barcelona and Chelsea in the UCL. He played one or two group matches too.

Who is talking about formation? I only told you that two midfielders combo was used mostly in that season which can only be possible in 4-4-2 which is the traditional formation of Man Utd.

All the matches mention are not convincing enough to tell me that Hargreaves was played only in big games. You need to give me any big games where Hargreaves started.

Anyway @cooger have already answered you in those matches you posted. I can't just imagine you listing a game where Hargreaves came in as a substitute in the 90th minute.

Let us have the number of games started by Hargreaves in the three-man midfield in Big Games. When you do that we can take it up from there. Don't for get that i said that Man Utd played 52 games in all competition in that season.

coogar:

if he didn't play as a defensive midfielder in united's biggest game that season then it simply shows scholes & carrick were more trusted in the centre of the pitch than owen hargreaves. hargreaves put the same work effort as tevez, rooney, ronaldo on the night. the real heroes were the watercarriers(scholes & carrick). it couldn't have been easy for the duo to combat lampard + ballack + makelele.

SAF knew with Owen anywhere on the pitch, the work in the midfield was 30% done. That was why he didn't use Nani to play. Had it not been a tactical decision, Nani should have played while one of Carrick or Scholes drops for Haregreaves.

elampiro:

[b]Whenever you argue in bits like this, I won't always be able to respond. I could not even read, but my eyes catches something I just want to respond to.

Hargreaves was our strongest midfielder in 2008. SAF was comfortable adding anyone with him for a two man midfield. But he needed a third midfielder for Scholes and Carrick. FACT![/b]

You must be a big JOKER for stating the bold. Where will you rate Scholes then? In how many games was Hargreaves paired with any other midfielder in a two-man midfield?

You just make blind statement without fact to support such statements.

Fabville:

You must be a big JOKER for stating the bold. Where will you rate Scholes then? In how many games was Hargreaves paired with any other midfielder in a two-man midfield?

You just make blind statement without fact to support such statements.

In how many games did Scholes pair with another in two man midfield in big games? I have mentioned some for Hargreaves.

I think I am done now. I have other things to do with time.