@crossman

i love family guy and i have all the complete episodes. just to let you know i've been saving all your pics maybe one day turn it to an album for my kids lol

so Jesus was a zealot then. shame nor even dey catch you

there is more on my face book check the link there is tools there to fight the gerry curl king


yeshuafreind.godschild@facebook.com

diluminati (f)
Jerusalemecca
Posts: 1420

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  Re: Pastor Pushing Your Head; Hoping You Fall?
« #96 on: Today at 07:59:39 PM » 

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@crossman

i love family guy and i have all the complete episodes. just to let you know i've been saving all your pics maybe one day turn it to an album for my kids lol   

Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders, 2 Thess. 2:9 (KJV)

The coming of the lawless one will be in accordance with the work of Satan displayed in all kinds of counterfeit miracles, signs and wonders, 2 Thess. 2:9 (NIV)

The Pentecostal movement says when the Spirit comes upon you it will overcome you with power, slaying you, hence making you to fall under the anointing and power of the Holy Ghost. Today this has become the common denominator of the Spirits presence with power and is sought after as proof of receiving the anointing and portrays a proof of anointed ones. This is not to discount that the Holy Spirit cannot do unusual things, however before we put a stamp of approval on a practice to be a normality instead of the unusual, we need to see if it is promoted as such in the Scriptures and hence giving it a biblical support so we can validate it as Christians.

The problem today is many believe every thing and every spirit which we are warned never to believe every spirits. Christians today will NOT go back to the scriptures to see if what is being taught is correct or wrong. Those who participate in this practice need to consider what they are really attributing to the Holy Spirit. There is no Biblical precedent for this and need to consider the source of the activity. We are not excluding that God cannot overwhelm someone with his presence, what needs to be questioned is when it becomes a normal practice in the church that represents the Spirits work.

Dear friends, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world. 1 John 4:1 (NIV)

When the Spirit came upon Jesus at His baptism He came up out of the water; He didn’t collapse and sink down! The Lord Jesus had power to heal even the worst cases of disease, blindness and crippled limbs, and yet no one who Jesus ever touched fell over “slain.” Nor do we find Peter or John touching people and causing them to fall over. They did not ask other disciples to stand behind those they were going to lay hands on, to catch them as they toppled backward by the power. The New Testament has no people lining up waiting for the “anointing” to be passed on from another, not even the Apostles. Can you picture any of the Apostles running up to people and slapping them on the forehead, or lining people up to be slain? No soft music or repetitive choruses were sung to set an atmosphere for the anointing to fall. No one yelled repetitive phrases like, “Fire!” or “touch” or “More, Lord!” or “Take it” or “Receive it now”

"As soon as Jesus was baptized, he went up out of the water. At that moment heaven was opened, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove and lighting on him. And a voice from heaven said, "This is my Son, whom I love; with him I am well pleased." Then Jesus was led by the Spirit into the desert to be tempted by the devil." Matt 3:16 – 4:1

The power of the Holy Spirit is suppose to enable us overcome temptations as seen above. The power is suppose to get people up not put them down and out. At the gate Beautiful Peter said to the blind man, “silver and gold I have none, but in the name of Jesus, RISE UP and walk.” Most of these new anointed dispensers of power can’t say the same because silver and gold they have abundantly. The power of God got people up; those who were thrown to the ground shaking and having convulsions were not possessed by the Holy Spirit but often demon-possessed in need of deliverance. They were not reacting from receiving God’s power they were in need of God’s power for it to stop.

So where does this all come from in this latter days? Those who advocate the support and validate this practice need to consider what they are really attributing to the Holy Spirit. There is no Biblical precedent for being “slain in the Spirit” or “falling under the anointing of the Holy Spirit” as we see being practiced today.

Scriptures used to validate this as Biblical are:
Gen.15, 17:1-3; Josh.5:13-15; Ez.1:28, 43:1-5, 44:4; Mt.17:5-6; Rev. 7:11, 11:16-17; Acts 9.

Many fell backwards in Scripture, but it was not a blessing! In 1 Samuel 4:18: Eli fell off his seat backwards on hearing of the death of his sons and the capture of the Ark and he died. Isaiah 28:13 the prophet speaks of God’s Word sent to refresh, but if not heard it became a judgment “that they may go and stumble backward, and be broken.” In all these examples it is a judgment, not a blessing! In 1 Samuel 28:20 we read of Saul immediately collapsing “full length” on the ground upon hearing of his impending death from Samuel after consulting the witch of Endor.

2 Chronicles 5, describes God’s glory filling the newly completed Temple. It says, “The priests could not continue ministering , for the glory of the Lord filled the house of God” (v.14). This cannot be made into a normative occurrence for today’s Church, as many have tried to do. This was a celebration because the temple was completed, the ark was brought in and Solomon had the priests assemble inside the most holy place. Inside the glory manifested physically as cloud in a contained place, the rest of Israel was still standing outside. In 2 Chronicles 7:2 and I Kings 8:11 the priests could not enter the temple or perform the priestly duties of the LORD because the temple was filled with the glory of the LORD.

In Ezekiel 1:28 and 2:1 the prophet is overwhelmed by the vision he saw and falls forward in worship. Those who are holy fall forward in conscious submission to God’s Holy presence. They do not become dazed and confused, as in some spirit services today. Those who are enemies fall backward when confronted with God’s true power. Philippians 2 says every knee will bow. Those who are conscious of who they serve bow forward, willingly and fully conscious. Those who fall backward overwhelmed, show a lack of submission, and rebellion.

Daniel, in 10:4-11 encountered a powerful angel and said, “I had no strength left, my face turned deathly pale, and I was helpless, I fell into a deep sleep, my face to the ground.” Daniel fell on his face; he fell forward. This was not without purpose. Daniel, a prophet, was receiving revelation that would become Scripture. Since in the Old Testament those who were affected in this manner were not born again, indwelt permanently by the Holy Spirit, this experience cannot be used as normative for the Church today. When John saw Jesus glorified in heaven (Revelation 1:17) he describes that, ‘“I fell at His feet as dead. But He laid His right hand on me, saying to me, “Do not be afraid; I am the First and the Last.” John was overcome with fear; he did not recognize Him as the Jesus He knew on earth.
In examples from either the Old Testament or the New, the men affected did not have a permanent indwelling of the Spirit.

When the soldiers came to arrest Jesus, in John 18:4-6 He reveals His power in a unique way. He identified himself to the soldiers who were arresting him and they “drew back and fell to the ground.” Jesus first revealed Himself by saying His divine name, “I Am,” making it clear who it is they came for. When He identified Himself to them, they fell to the ground in judgment. These pagan sinners did fall -- backwards. They did not experience revelation or receive an anointing, or conversion, they got right back up and arrested Jesus. There was no change in them; they were still enemies of Jesus. Also, none of Jesus’ followers fell down during the arrest. Certainly none of this represents a pattern for the Church. Those who practice the artful ritual of being “slain in the Spirit” or “falling under anointing” today deny or ignore these Biblical facts in order to embrace an experience that is not endorsed in the Bible.

In Matthew 17:5-6 (NIV)

While he was still speaking, a bright cloud enveloped them, and a voice from the cloud said, "This is my Son, whom I love; with him I am well pleased. Listen to him!" When the disciples heard this, they fell facedown to the ground, terrified.

The event at the mount of transfigurations. We see here the glory of God filled where they were all standing and Jesus was transformed right in front of His disciples. The glory was so much that made the disciples fell down in reference to the glory. Again, we do not see Jesus touching the disciples neither can we see someone standing at the back of the disciples to catch them.

Acts of the Apostles 9.

Saul was an unbeliever on his way to his next extermination. He was knocked to the ground by a light (the Shekinah glory), not someone called the anointed man slapping him or touching his head so he could fall as we have today and he had a revelation of Christ. When Saul fell, no one touched him and no one was there to catch him. The Scripture doesn’t actually say how he fell, but the Greek language seems to indicate he went to the ground on his own volition in reference to the great light. Jesus does not appear to be the source of Paul’s falling to the ground, Jesus did not allow Paul to remain on the ground, but told him to “arise and go into Damascus.” Remember Saul was unsaved at the time, but people who fall today all claim to be believers and Christians. So this does not provide any justification for regarding it as a model for believers to practice today. Saul was consciously carrying on a conversation with the Lord.

In Acts 26:14 Paul, recalling the event, stated all who were with him saw the light and fell to the ground, but only he heard the voice (Acts 22:9). This was an extreme measure designed to get Paul’s attention, as he was on his way to kill Christians. The others with Paul who also fell were unbelievers and stayed in their unbelieving state. Therefore, this incident involving falling to the ground (being slain by the Spirit) cannot be used to support the idea that it is a spiritual blessing, as commonly said today.

When we see Tele-evangelists blow on people they go down yet when Christ breathed on the disciples they did not. When Jesus touched people they did not fall. The biblical model is whenever the Spirit fell they were not expecting him. The Spirit is called the comforter, the helper another one like Jesus. When Jesus left he said he would send us another like himself. His role was to replace the physical Jesus by indwelling all believers giving them a relationship with God. The question we need to ask is did Jesus act this erratic and have power displays? If not then why should the Spirit act this way when he is to point to Jesus? Is this the nature of Jesus or something other than him is operating? How is it the person who dispenses this power that can knock people down, can stand through it all? That they can touch people even the catchers and they don’t go down during the service. How is the same person who just was felled over by his touch can afterward be hugged and not go over. Who then is in control if it only happens at the wave of his hand or when he says the word? Why does this only occur at the big crusades and where they meet for service and it does not take place during their days chores.

The only way to know the true from the false is to test it. Jesus had the greatest anointing, yet, when He prayed for people they did not fall over; neither did Jesus go down when He was anointed. The Spirit came upon him as a dove, as a gentle companion. This phenomena and practice is foreign to Scripture. Can the Holy Spirit be thrown around like a force? This Spirit goes where the conductor tells Him to go. Biblically we are to submit and take our guidance from the Spirit, this is the opposite. Jesus taught that the Holy Spirit goes where He will, He chooses how He will be known in the heart and life of a believer, and it is not for any man to decide when His abiding in another is to be.

John 3:8,
“The wind blows where it pleases, and you hear the sound thereof, but cannot not tell where it came, and where it goes: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.”

No one knows where the Spirit comes from or where the Spirit goes. The Spirit is likened to the wind. Those who can dispense the anointing seem to tell the Spirit where to go and know where He will go next and what He or “it” will do. Think, my friend! Where do we find these experiences? Even the apostles did not have such experiences! What is operating? What is the source? Remember the Spirit is God himself who is supposedly thrown around the room. Whenever the presence came in the Old Testament all were affected but today the dispenser of this power stands strong while the participants all go down. Are they alone immune to its affects?

The Bible commands us to test it. Mature Christians test the spirits; babies, weak and carnal Christians avoid testing.

Hebrews 5:13-14 (NIV)

Anyone who lives on milk, being still an infant, is not acquainted with the teaching about righteousness. But solid food is for the mature, who by constant use have trained themselves to distinguish good from evil.

By pursuing a blessing they have abandoned truth in place of a supernatural experience. In so doing they have inadvertently become open to deception by accepting this without any testing. People have succumbed to the oldest charade; in their pursuit of a blessing they have abandoned truth in place of a supernatural experience without ever testing the source for Biblical proof. Does the Bible show people line up in a church service in a row and have the power dispersed from an anointed person. There are no conduits for his power, Jesus has and always will be the baptizer of the Holy Spirit we don’t need any other mediator. Jesus is our example. When Jesus was anointed, the Spirit came upon him as a dove, not as a wild animal like a rhinoceros.

Jesus is the baptizer, who anoints with the Holy Spirit. The power really comes only from Christ, just what are people receiving through this experience? Do these displays of power become the convincing proof of God’s presence? John 10:41-42 records, “Then many came to Him and said, ‘John performed no sign, but all the things that John spoke about this Man were true.’ And many believed in Him there.” John convinced the people without a display of miracles. It was the truth that converted them and made them into followers. It is by knowing the truth (the Word) that keeps people following faithfully, not displays of power. We don’t need to be slain “in the Spirit”, but cut “by the Spirit,” the Word (John 6:63; Hebrews 4:12). One way is by expositional preaching the other is offered by experience. One comes by the Word that is objective, that teaches and convicts through the Holy Spirit, the other is subjective, by a person touching you or imparting a power. The Word is Biblical, the other is not.

Truly the ancient words of the prophet Hosea ring true for us today, as it did then, “MY PEOPLE ARE DESTROYED FOR A LACK OF KNOWLEDGE, BECAUSE THEY HAVE REJECTED KNOWLEDGE” (Hosea 4:6)

When experience replaces Biblical knowledge, we have abandoned God’s standard. Knowledge can be painful when it corrects us, but it can cost much more to follow falsehood, which by its nature is easy to swallow and soothing to those who refuse the truth.

did you get the invite on skype

crossman9:

did you get the invite on skype

No, let's chat on yahoo tomorrow, monday. ok I will be online on yahoo all day. Thanks

FXKing2012:

Matt. 26:51 clearly states that ". . .one of them which were with Jesus stretched out his hand, and drew his sword, and struck a servant of the high priest, and smoke off his ear."

Luke 22: 36 & 38: "And He said unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one".
38: "And they said, Lord, behold, here are two swords. And He said unto them, it is enough."

I'm sure you've never come across these verses in that your Bible cos it's obvious you werent aware they are in the Bible. Now tell me, why would Jesus ask them to buy swords if not to carry the swords? Would He ask them to buy swords just to keep as souvenirs or were swords given to the motherless babies as gifts?

There you go with that 'your' bible nonsense.
It really rocked your world to know there are more than one translation of the bible, didn't it?


I'm glad you took the trouble to cite chapter and verse.
I notice you couldn't resist quote-mining, though, in both cases.

Try reading the following verse to the Matthew 26:51

King James Bible (Cambridge Ed.)
Then said Jesus unto him, Put up again thy sword into his place: for all they that take the sword shall perish with the sword.

Do you understand the meaning of this?

I also suggest you read the entire chapter 22 of Luke to understand what Jesus was actually talking about, rather than mining it for quotes.

@ Pastor Jo

Havin gone tru all pages . . i advise u have a re-think bout the kinda life you are living ( a very deceptive one indeed).
The most annoying tin bout these "pastors" are the way the mutter indecipherable speech in the name of "speaking in tongues"
Let's not even start to argue. Take your time to read the screenshots and kindly look up every scripture (quoted n cited)

,

,

Nepiotic nepios

FXKing2012:

Pls dont even try to change the subject which made me come after you. [b]Your point was that the disciples never carried weapons (cos u felt those surrounding pastors may have weapons on them) and I made it clear to you that the disciples of Jesus carried weapons, and I've proven it to you from the Bible. Why cant u for once accept the truth and quit being so stubborn. You make it look like it's an argument which u just must win no matter what.
The truth is in the Bible dear, and ur not accepting it does not change the truth.[/b]

Show me where I wrote what you claim:

Your point was that the disciples never carried weapons

Stop inventing things.
You don't impress anyone with this nonsense.

Now, back to the topic?

goshen360:

Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders, 2 Thess. 2:9 (KJV)

The coming of the lawless one will be in accordance with the work of Satan displayed in all kinds of counterfeit miracles, signs and wonders, 2 Thess. 2:9 (NIV)

Out of point.

The Pentecostal movement says when the Spirit comes upon you it will overcome you with power, slaying you, hence making you to fall under the anointing and power of the Holy Ghost.

Stop being manipulative. Is it a must to fall? After all it's not every body that falls. Why blame a pastor for what someone he minister to experienced. Ive seen unchurched people fall . Muslim fall in christian meeting. It's the presence of God. The holy spirits work in the church hasn't ended . He still does his things.

If peter hadnt used his shadow to heal and If  someone use shadow to heal the sick today. You would have said  it is Antichrist.  But now you may say it's ok if someone does it since Peter did it. But is Peter God? Did jesus use shadow? It's not an issue with Peter its the holyghost.  Peter didn't know about singing in tongues , but paul came with singing in the spirit etc. you can't deny the power of God in people lives by your limited knowledge or experience. It's the holyghost who does these things.

John 16:13
13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.

Nowadays this section seems to be rife with otiose threads

The reason why they had weapons was so Jesus was numbered with the transgressors when they arrested him that is why they had swords

crossman9:

The reason why they had weapons was so Jesus was numbered with the transgressors when they arrested him that is why they had swords

That's an interesting interpretation.
A bit strained in light of the fact that there was the agreed signal- Judas' kiss?

FXKing2012:

And since when is buying a sword the same as carrying a sword?
My bible? That conversation in another thread where you were shown up with transaltion problems seems to affected you. 'My' bible?

This is where u implied that the disciples did not carry weapons. Now deny the bold section does not imply the disciples did not carry weapons.

Of course I deny it- sharpen your reading skills.

You'd confused threads, remember with that rather silly 'your bible' statement?
Is it possible to get this thread back on topic?

Which is, do we have to go along with showmanship in a religious service?
I've already posted videos showing this 'pushing' business happens in displays of 'miracles' in chi kung classes.
It's very convincing, after all.

I much prefer the White Garment-Aladura-Cherubim & Seraphim-Celestial Church type of Holy Ghost/Spirit  Anointing, they would dance around on one leg while shouting Holy Gabriel, Jah, Rastafaria etc. You usually get a prophesy during their type of Holy spirit manifestation.

Even Gabriel Deya remember him, he's the Kenyan Pastor caught for Child Trafficking in the UK a few years ago, was so filled with the spirit that he didn't need to touch you, all he does is to wave his hand and the whole congregation falls, while those who are barren get a brand new baby all the way from Kenya via British Airways

InesQor:

Nowadays this section seems to be rife with otiose threads

signs of the end times. learn to live with it

Olodo i was joking. There is no 'end times'. your body too hot, for a christian thats pretty bad.

diluminati:

Olodo i was joking. There is no 'end times'. your body too hot, for a christian thats pretty bad.

this is quite silly and a disgusting double standard. Being a christian does not mean you arent human anymore and thus unable to feel and react to pain, anger or sorrow.

diluminati are you on face book

diluminati:

Olodo i was joking. There is no 'end times'. your body too hot, for a christian thats pretty bad.

davidylan:

this is quite silly and a disgusting double standard. Being a christian does not mean you arent human anymore and thus unable to feel and react to pain, anger or sorrow.

I agree with davidylan.
There's no need for vulgarity.
Tempers flare (mine first) but I try not indulge my taste for vulgarity.
There are other forums here at Nairaland for that!

@davidylan You know you are wrong, well except he is not a true christian

diluminati:

@davidylan You know you are wrong, well except he is not a true christian

More silliness. In what way am i wrong or are you just pulling nonsense out of thin air? Have you read the portion of the bible that clearly states - "be angry and sin not"?
this nonsensical, clearly malicious and deliberately dishonest idea that being a christian means you can never be angry, are not allowed to show negative emotion especially in the face of deliberate provocation from dishonest charlatans is false on so many levels. Its about time people started calling this out.

Posted by: FXKing2012 
Insert Quote
Quote from: diluminati on Yesterday at 09:10:29 PM
@davidylan You know you are wrong, well except he is not a true christian


Since when is an atheist qualified to judge who is a Christian and who is not?

Well if there using the word to judge but in the end they must be born again??

But they can still judge she knows the bible very well

diluminati she lacks faith to believe but if you all shape up you will show her the kingdom is a nice place to be part of this fighting is only killing of the harvest

The day you and even me see Jesus coming for us all then all this talking about who is right and wrong which i know i am right?

see some time you need someone who is looking in from the outside to look to see the wrongs and the rights instead of getting angry with her ask her why is she not hearing words she will tell you because you’re not saying the right things so change your mind to the truth and it will change the world and change all people minds i hope this helps you