I understand what you did for NSE, I am asking if you ran same analysis for NYSE (US) stock also?

jedisco:


I looked at the historical share price of currently listed NSE companies...
You can check them out on investing(dot)com

ade101:
I can see guys are exploring alternatives now that tb rates are not attractive. I can't thank God enough for making me take the courage to diversify into real estate. I keep asking people the average rental returns from building house, trying to compare with my stable and guaranteed investments (I do tb and Stanbic Money Market) but I could not get an actual value. Many variables involved yet I didn't give up, started meeting people, engineers, real estate agents, and eventually, I realized there's nothing to be scared of... I emptied my money market, buy land for ajah, get seriously involved to minimise cost.

Bought land at lakowe, Ajah for 3m half plot
Built 8 units of room and parlour self contain (4 on the ground floor and 4 at the top)

Total spent about 13m

In total spent about 17-19m

Started renting out and within 5 months, all units has been occupied @ 350k annual fee (agreement and commission took the first payment to 450k)

Total return from rental first year: 3.6m (450 X

Expected annual returns onward : 2.8m


In percentage :

First year : 20 percent return on investment

Expected annual return onward: 15.5 percent


There was a time I got this value from tb (2016 - 2018), money market has always been around 13 percent at peak for me.

I'm just glad I now have a stable return of over 15 percent without worrying about rates dropping...


To blow your mind : I have just been introduced to developer style of real estate... I have already signed a property self.. Cost of buying land and building from ground up (foundation construction) is off... Based on the site engineers quotation, with 6m, we should finish the renovation work and paint the building. Family one off payment was 1.5m so in all, about 8m should finish everything. They are leasing the building to me for 12 years and annual returns expected is about 3.2m.. That's over 35 percent return annually.

I don't think I will ever go back from real estate...

That's my personal experience, so if anyone is looking for alternative, do your findings on real estate. And be careful, don't cut cost, always go through a reputable lawyer, they are not that expensive, street is hard even the lawyers fees are now negotiable lol... All the best.

The cost is low, how much did you spend on the foundation, how much for the decking, how much for the roofing., plumbing, electrical, plastering, painting, tiling, furnishing.

Can you do the break down for each stage of the project

How come you got 100k per apartment for agreement and commission? Don't you have agents and lawyers and other professional parties to the transaction?


I may be wrong, but something tells me you are trying to market something here.

Tobex4realTobex234:


This is Cowrywise. 3% per annum.

How is this higher than market rates?

Okay, how about this?

lavylilly:
Carbon was never been in business for a decade ago they started over 2yrs

Carbon has been in business for almost a decade. They started as paylater

ade101:
I can see guys are exploring alternatives now that tb rates are not attractive. I can't thank God enough for making me take the courage to diversify into real estate. I keep asking people the average rental returns from building house, trying to compare with my stable and guaranteed investments (I do tb and Stanbic Money Market) but I could not get an actual value. Many variables involved yet I didn't give up, started meeting people, engineers, real estate agents, and eventually, I realized there's nothing to be scared of... I emptied my money market, buy land for ajah, get seriously involved to minimise cost.

Bought land at lakowe, Ajah for 3m half plot
Built 8 units of room and parlour self contain (4 on the ground floor and 4 at the top)

Total spent about 13m

In total spent about 17-19m

Started renting out and within 5 months, all units has been occupied @ 350k annual fee (agreement and commission took the first payment to 450k)

Total return from rental first year: 3.6m (450 X

Expected annual returns onward : 2.8m


In percentage :

First year : 20 percent return on investment

Expected annual return onward: 15.5 percent


There was a time I got this value from tb (2016 - 2018), money market has always been around 13 percent at peak for me.

I'm just glad I now have a stable return of over 15 percent without worrying about rates dropping...


To blow your mind : I have just been introduced to developer style of real estate... I have already signed a property self.. Cost of buying land and building from ground up (foundation construction) is off... Based on the site engineers quotation, with 6m, we should finish the renovation work and paint the building. Family one off payment was 1.5m so in all, about 8m should finish everything. They are leasing the building to me for 12 years and annual returns expected is about 3.2m.. That's over 35 percent return annually.

I don't think I will ever go back from real estate...

That's my personal experience, so if anyone is looking for alternative, do your findings on real estate. And be careful, don't cut cost, always go through a reputable lawyer, they are not that expensive, street is hard even the lawyers fees are now negotiable lol... All the best.

Wow! Just 13m.
Please can you do a rough breakdown?

einsteine:
Luddites are masquerading as risk averse investors[b]. Most fintechs have licenses from the CBN[/b].

Nobody is opposing technological advancement. Give me 2021 electric car today and I will thank you for it.

The bolded is not completely true. Of the list of 47 CBN licenced fintect I have seen, the only names mentioned around here since the discussion about it started that are among is Flutterwave and Paga.

I did not see piggyvest or cowrise there.

emmanuelewumi:



The cost is low, how much did you spend on the foundation, how much for the decking, how much for the roofing., plumbing, electrical, plastering, painting, tiling, furnishing.

Can you do the break down for each stage of the project

How come you got 100k per apartment for agreement and commission? Don't you have agents and lawyers and other professional parties to the transaction?


I may be wrong, but something tells me you are trying to market something here.

freeman67:


Nobody is opposing technological advancement. Give me 2021 electric car today and I will thank you for it.

The bolded is not completely true. Of the list of 47 CBN licenced fintect I have seen, the only names mentioned around here since the discussion about it started that are among is Flutterwave and Paga.

I did not see piggyvest or cowrise there.

The ones which are not registered are in partnership with regulated companies. Cowrywise for instance has trusteeship agreement with Meristem and arrangements with other investment companies.

These financial technology companies are not in the same group with MBA Forex which is the impression that one gets reading the critics' opinion. One has to learn to move with the times or be condemned to suffer poor results.

Somebody talked about investing in binance savings products (7-9 percent per annum guaranteed on USD savings) some time ago, the person was attacked because many people on this thread seem to want to live and die by the old ways. Meanwhile, Binance is a bigger institution than GTB and Zenith combined.

IamR:

Wow! Just 13m.
Please can you do a rough breakdown?

I had to read his post three times to be triple sure that eyes were not sending the wrong prints to my brain.

ojesymsym:
I understand what you did for NSE, I am asking if you ran same analysis for NYSE (US) stock also?

Yeah... You can check the Dow Jones (attached below) which also tracks 30 big US companies or the S&P 500 (which tracks more but with different indices) to give an overview... They have both been on an general uptrend for decades

The combined NSE 30 (2nd pic) on the other hand, has been generally stagnant for the last decade but at least more actionable than FBNH.

Looking into individual US stocks, of course different stocks performed differently... Popular Tech stocks have been thru the roof while banking stocks have have generally had a sustained recovery from the 2008 crash

If the guy is able to successfully prove that he spent that amount, I see many building contractors losing jobs soon.

They go need to come explain how them de build their houses since.

arduino:

I had to read his post three times to be triple sure that eyes were not sending the wrong prints to my brain.

Hmmm interesting.

If you are not comparing Apples with Oranges then the difference between the two graphs are too glaring. You have not even accounted for devaluation of the naira since then.

Good thing you brought this up, I recently have already made up my mind to also diversify into the US market. I am trying to avoid Trove and the different fintech apps, I know portfollo seem to be popular on the US stock thread but my own research is leading me towards swissquote and iq options, the registration pages have Nigeria in them so I am assuming they accept Nigeria in them. Is that something you are familiar with.

Laxyyoot, abeg help me wear your black hat check those foreign app. I know the first huddle of whether or not u live US stock has been jumped na just weda those 2 apps pass your stress test remain.

jedisco:


Yeah... You can check the Dow Jones (attached below) which also tracks 30 big companies or the S&P 500 (which tracks more but with different indices) to give an overview... They have both been on an general uptrend for decades

The combined NSE 30 (2nd pic) on the other hand, has been generally stagnant for the last decade but at least more actionable

Looking into individual US stocks, of course different stocks performed differently... Popular Tech stocks have been thru the roof while banking stocks have have generally had a sustained recovery from the 2008 crash

ojesymsym:
Hmmm interesting.

If you are not comparing Apples with Oranges then the difference between the two graphs are too glaring. You have not even accounted for devaluation of the naira since then.

Good thing you brought this up, I recently have already made up my mind to also diversify into the US market. I am trying to avoid Trove and the different fintech apps, I know portfollo seem to be popular on the US stock thread but my own research is leading me towards swissquote and iq options, the registration pages have Nigeria in them so I am assuming they accept Nigeria in them. Is that something you are familiar with.

Laxyyoot, abeg help me wear your black hat check those foreign app. I know the first huddle of whether or not u live US stock has been jumped na just weda those 2 apps pass your stress test remain.

I'm not familiar with those apps but the US stock thread should have a good guide...
That said, the US stock market seems propped up at this time with the excess dollar printing and not really in keeping with the post-COVID pandemic situation... So there's obviously the risk of a proper correction around the corner. But then, in strong markets, such corrections are healthy and present a good buying opportunity as it's more likely the market will resume the upward trend afterwards.

Regarding the NSE, I was quite surprised at the performance of certain household names which I thought were faring better... Though not sure, I wouldn't be surprised most of it is engineered due to corruption. There was some talk of introducing derivatives, perhaps that'd bring more liquidity into the market and at least enable traders to profit both ways.

Regarding local investments, personally I've found that sensibly picking up landed properties in areas at the cusp of development is quite profitable, you may beat devaluation and relatively easy to dispose.

einsteine:
Luddites are masquerading as risk averse investors. Most fintechs have licenses from the CBN.

Fintechs are opefating with the licenae of MFBs. They dont have 'direct' license per say

afroxyz:

Fintechs are opefating with the licenae of MFBs. They dont have 'direct' license per say

Some of them are MFBs. Like I said, most people are just enamored with traditional ways of doing things. The fact that they have a microfinance Bank license does not mean they must have a physical branch.

einsteine:



The ones which are not registered are in partnership with regulated companies. Cowrywise for instance has trusteeship agreement with Meristem and arrangements with other investment companies.

These financial technology companies are not in the same group with MBA Forex which is the impression that one gets reading the critics' opinion. One has to learn to move with the times or be condemned to suffer poor results.

Somebody talked about investing in binance savings products (7-9 percent per annum guaranteed on USD savings) some time ago, the person was attacked because many people on this thread seem to want to live and die by the old ways. Meanwhile, Binance is a bigger institution than GTB and Zenith combined.

People never understand how to hodl finish, na to invest in binance savings pools?

ojesymsym:
If the guy is able to successfully prove that he spent that amount, I see many building contractors losing jobs soon.

They go need to come explain how them de build their houses since.

I dey tell you....

Well done Senior men them...
Please I would appreciate an advise on a business proposal... someone due to (marriage) relocation wishes to sale off his business services (one off payment) that makes about a minimum of 100k profit per month (verified & confirmed), this business has existed for two years plus...

Long story short, he has refused to mention any price rather kept saying I make an offer...
Really don't know how to analyse or calculate what to offer for such deal...
Any clue or hint on how best to negotiate on this will be appreciated... I no wan over offer....
Just hope the guy self no dey this thread ni

oluwaleokey:
Well done Senior men them...
Please I would appreciate an advise on a business proposal... someone due to (marriage) relocation wishes to sale off his business services (one off payment) that makes about a minimum of 100k profit per month (verified & confirmed), this business has existed for two years plus...

Long story short, he has refused to mention any price rather kept saying I make an offer...
Really don't know how to analyse or calculate what to offer for such deal...
Any clue or hint on how best to negotiate on this will be appreciated... I no wan over offer....
Just hope the guy self no dey this thread ni

100k per month that is N1.2 million per annum. Did you deduct, employees cost,rent, electricity, generator costs, transport and logistics costs. Since it is a business and not an investment, it will include your active participation in the running of the business, did you deduct your salary before arriving at the monthly profit of 100k.

If yes, I think you can offer N5 million for the purchase of the business

einsteine:



The ones which are not registered are in partnership with regulated companies. Cowrywise for instance has trusteeship agreement with Meristem and arrangements with other investment companies.

These financial technology companies are not in the same group with MBA Forex which is the impression that one gets reading the critics' opinion. One has to learn to move with the times or be condemned to suffer poor results.

Somebody talked about investing in binance savings products (7-9 percent per annum guaranteed on USD savings) some time ago, the person was attacked because many people on this thread seem to want to live and die by the old ways. Meanwhile, Binance is a bigger institution than GTB and Zenith combined.

You are either registered by SEC or you are not, those who take deposits are either registered by CBN or they not and the deposits are insured by NDIC. Most actually use microfinance bank licenses. You need less than N50 million to own a microfinance bank, so I don't expect an informed depositor or investor with N100 million to say that is where he will invest his fund. It is okay for depositors with N2 million and below to safe lock their funds with them

For SEC registered fund managers, all their funds have different Trustee arrangements with Trust deeds.

A fund manager that has a money market funds, fixed income fund, Eurobond Fund, Equity fund, Balanced fund, ethical fund, Sukuk fund and REIT.
Will have a Trustee for each of the funds, each fund has a Trust deed. You can always get a copy from SEC.

The account number funds are paid is a joint account, that is operated by the Trustee and the fund managers, monthly reports about the account and fund are sent to SEC.

It is always very important to do our due diligence and ask questions.

I have made enquiry to SEC about some of the new operators and their so called Trustees which SEC claimed to be ignorant of the arrangement.

SEC is aware of all Trust accounts, you can approach any of the Trustees to open one for your children, loved ones, business or transactions in order to safeguard your interest and their interest.

emmanuelewumi:



100k per month that is N1.2 million per annum. Did you deduct, employees cost,rent, electricity, generator costs, transport and logistics costs. Since it is a business and not an investment, it will include your active participation in the running of the business, did you deduct your salary before arriving at the monthly profit of 100k.

If yes, I think you can offer N5 million for the purchase of the business

Never thought of and considers all these factors...
Thank so much sir Emma, let me go back and re-arrange... by the time I prefessionally mention all these, him self go confirm I be international business analyst ... gives me more negotiating power
Once again thank you sir

afroxyz:

Fintechs are opefating with the licenae of MFBs. They dont have 'direct' license per say

Since have a license they can accept deposits. Microfinance Banks are typically for micro and small businesses or people with limited financial resources

ojesymsym:
That's why they are likely to have a higher collection Raye than the commercial banks.

In terms of taking them to court, I want to believe that somewhere in the fine prints that the loan collectors must have agreed to a lot of these things and lot more.

Many Nigerians see loans as their own share of the national cake with no intention to pay but microfinance banks know how to deal with such people. Some defaulters from microfinance banks commit suicide, those from commercial bank keeps flexing life.

Microfinance Banks don't have a higher collection rate, the mortality rate of microfinance banks is higher, loan default rate is also higher the higher interest rates will make up for the bad loans.

If you have observed most microfinance banks are now trying to get medium businesses and high networth people to start doing business with some are even ready to give higher rates for deposits. I always tell their marketers that it is called a microfinance bank for a reason, they have their scope and target market and they should not go beyond that.

It is always better to also consider the downside, unfortunately we only focus on the upside.

freeman67:


Okay, how about this?

how can okada be a fixed income investment ? When it's a depreciating asset and would eventually sold at scrap value .so where will the interest payments come from?

oluwaleokey:
Well done Senior men them...
Please I would appreciate an advise on a business proposal... someone due to (marriage) relocation wishes to sale off his business services (one off payment) that makes about a minimum of 100k profit per month (verified & confirmed), this business has existed for two years plus...

Long story short, he has refused to mention any price rather kept saying I make an offer...
Really don't know how to analyse or calculate what to offer for such deal...
Any clue or hint on how best to negotiate on this will be appreciated... I no wan over offer....
Just hope the guy self no dey this thread ni

is he producing service or selling merchandise..some business have good will and personality of the owner ...example if my barber that make 10k daily decide to sell the business on this parameters the new person will struggle to make 1k daily...

emmanuelewumi:


Microfinance Banks don't have a higher collection rate, the mortality rate of microfinance banks is higher, loan default rate is also higher the higher interest rates will make up for the bad loans.

If you have observed most microfinance banks are now trying to get medium businesses and high networth people to start doing business with some are even ready to give higher rates for deposits. I always tell their marketers that it is called a microfinance bank for a reason, they have their scope and target market and they should not go beyond that.

It is always better to also consider the downside, unfortunately we only focus on the upside.

Boss, the micro in micro finance is with regards to the businesses they finance or lend to. That is the micro/SME segment that big banks largely stay away from due to the high risk and transaction costs. Not their source of funds which can include high net worth depositors.

Micro finance banks source their funds from various sources including borrowing from banks, issuing bonds, raising equity, grants and donations and deposits from high net worth and regular/small savers.

They offer the high rates to these high net worth individuals in order to attract the high net worth guys from big banks. That is one of the reasons why they have higher interest rates. Their cost of funds is very high. This in addition to the higher pricing on their high risk (higher probability of default) loans make the interest rates on their loans insane.

Some investors with high risk tolerance are investing in micro finance banks.

I have seen some monikers make brilliant contributions on this thread but the herd sadly won’t take them seriously because they are not one of the ‘gurus in the house’. People here need to learn to be open minded

I have seen brilliant points made by EarlyCareer and Jedisco in the past couple of days. A few weeks ago, Ositadima1 was making some very brilliant points on the oil and gas industry but nobody took him seriously

oluwaleokey:
Well done Senior men them...
Please I would appreciate an advise on a business proposal... someone due to (marriage) relocation wishes to sale off his business services (one off payment) that makes about a minimum of 100k profit per month (verified & confirmed), this business has existed for two years plus...

Long story short, he has refused to mention any price rather kept saying I make an offer...
Really don't know how to analyse or calculate what to offer for such deal...
Any clue or hint on how best to negotiate on this will be appreciated... I no wan over offer....
Just hope the guy self no dey this thread ni

I no be one of your senior men them. Just a lazy youth but here are my lazy thoughts sha

You say 100k profit per month. Is that truly profit (after deducting all costs and expenses) or is it just revenues? You need to be sure about that.

There are different ways to value a business and I will try not to get too technical.

1. If you know anyone that has bought similar businesses, how much did they pay? You can use the multiple they paid and apply to this business proposal after making some adjustments.

2. Discounting the future cash flows. You will need to make projections of the money the business will be making in the future and then discount using relevant cost of capital

3. Net asset value of the business. If na business wey get hard assets simply find the market value of these assets and deduct all known debts and liabilities.

As you can see, it is not as simple as just coming on a faceless forum to ask how much to pay for the business.

I advise you to find correct person wey dey work for better investment bank and pay the person small money to help you look into it and do some analysis. If you are really serious about it, I’m sure you will be willing to part with 100k or so for this service if the business make sense.

ahiboilandgas:
is he producing service or selling merchandise..some business have good will and personality of the owner ...example if my barber that make 10k daily decide to sell the business on this parameters the new person will struggle to make 1k daily...

You made sense however it doesn't require any personal skills... let's say a transfer of ownership (customers base inlcusive)...
Thanks for your input sir

oluwaleokey:


You made sense however it doesn't require any personal skills... let's say a transfer of ownership (customers base inlcusive)...
Thanks for your input sir

a certain skill must be required even if na customer retention skill,human resource management skills etc to maintain or improve the current income...