iiiyyyk:

 Thank you macanthon, is it not only in US, UK is even worst, by the age of 27 they have three kids with 3 different men by 35 they are looking for the forth husband.

 it is a shame when people want to emulate every thing from the west.
in terms of family values, i think the west has failed.

 God the author of marriages, gave us the rule to play by. play yours effectively.
whether Muslim or christian, the man is the Head. like in EVery  institution whether eathly or heavenly, the head is the decision taker, but does not make the decision in isolation, rather considers the contribution of others. in this case  considers the wife's contributions.

Thanks man. You understand where I'm coming from. If everyone played their roles the institution of marriage would not be in so much mess. The problem is women trying to be the head and men preferring to be philanderers and irresponsible. Hence all the wahala.

moremi2008:

So your vision of marriage is a jail cell for women? Is this why many Nigerian brides find themselves beaten to death? Your interpretation of the Bible is dangerous and contradictory.  Sorry, I will never advice my sister to submit to a man that's beating her up or cheating on her. Your wife is NOT your slave.

What exactly are you saying cos I can't make much sense from this. Where exactly did I say women should be slaves? I said the woman should have her say but still let the man have the final say. However does that translate to slavery? When women are asked to submit unconditionally, it's because the One who asked them to does not sanction divorce, except as a result of infidelity. The same applies to men as well: You're to love unconditionally. They should be mutually exclusive. But that applies to couples who are already married. So get it clearly pls

iiiyyyk:


Does your own interpretation of the blble advice your sister to divorce if she is not able to submit to her husband?

please if you dont know the bible dont just bring it up here.

 we are not abaut the bible now,

Re-framing the issue won't make you sound any smarter. The question is not whether she CAN submit or if she is ABLE to submit (anybody can submit if they wish). My question is, "SHOULD a woman submit to a physically abusive or a cheating husband?" My answer is no because that man has failed in his duty to love his wife as Christ loved the church. THIS is my interpretation of the Bible.

MarcAnthon:

What exactly are you saying cos I can't make much sense from this. Where exactly did I say women should be slaves? I said the woman should have her say but still let the man have the final say. However does that translate to slavery? When women are asked to submit unconditionally, it's because the One who asked them to does not sanction divorce, except as a result of infidelity. The same applies to men as well: You're to love unconditionally. They should be mutually exclusive. But that applies to couples who are already married. So get it clearly pls

I only extrapolated your argument to its logical conclusion. Unconditional submission = slavery. I don't know what type of dictionary you have or if we're even speaking the same language but please, go look up the words "unconditional" and "submission" and then juxtapose the two. Stop moving forward and going backwards at the same time. Say EXACTLY what you mean and own your misogyny without shame so we can call you out on it appropriately.

I am yet to see where in the Bible Jesus said it is OK for women to stay in physically abusive relationships. Sometimes, Christians just scare me with their ability to suspend their God-given intellects in the face of convenient dogma, especially misogynistic interpretations of the love of Christ. It's really funny that the same Nigerian pastors that preach nonsense theology like "unconditional submission"in Lagos, conveniently forgetting the "man love your wives" part, will move to the UK or the US where the culture and the laws have zero tolerance for misogyny, and change their tunes and soft-pedal their preaching. Aren't the pastors in the US/UK reading the same Bibles as the pastors in Naija? Abeg, comot!

^^ I laugh at you trying to teach me English.

Like I said, since you're heard of hearing (or reading), the only reason God will endorse divorce is when there's a case of infidelity. Just so you know. JC may not have told women to stay in a physically abusive relationships, but I'm sure he considered that when he said infidelity should be the only reason he'd endorse divorce. Unless you're smarter than him, that is, since you're good at extrapolating.

But you're getting ahead of yourself here. The OP asked a question about submission. I wouldn't know the kind of dictionary you use either, but I'm finding it hard to pair submission and physical abuse within the same bracket. THE ISSUE IS ABOUT SUBMISSION AS A RESULT OF THE MAN HAVING FIRST LOVED, OR LOVING AS A RESULT OF THE WOMAN HAVING FIRST SUBMITTED. And I'm saying they should be independent of each other, ideally. AND THAT COMES INTO PLAY NATURALLY IN DECISION MAKING, not physical abuse, bros. So cool down.

And FYI, I don't believe in divorce. I think whatever the issues are two adults can always resolve them IF THEY WANT TO.

MarcAnthon:

^^ I laugh at you trying to teach me English.

Like I said, since you're heard of hearing (or reading), the only reason God will endorse divorce is when there's a case of infidelity. Just so you know. JC may not have told women to stay in a physically abusive relationships, but I'm sure he considered that when he said infidelity should be the only reason he'd endorse divorce. Unless you're smarter than him, that is, since you're good at extrapolating.

But you're getting ahead of yourself here. The OP asked a question about submission. I wouldn't know the kind of dictionary you use either, but I'm finding it hard to pair submission and physical abuse within the same bracket. THE ISSUE IS ABOUT SUBMISSION AS A RESULT OF THE MAN HAVING FIRST LOVED, OR LOVING AS A RESULT OF THE WOMAN HAVING FIRST SUBMITTED. And I'm saying they should be independent of each other, ideally. AND THAT COMES INTO PLAY NATURALLY IN DECISION MAKING, not physical abuse, bros. So cool down.

And FYI, I don't believe in divorce. I think whatever the issues are two adults can always resolve them IF THEY WANT TO.

You are incorrectly identifying the main argument running through several of the earlier posts. All this dancing around with merely tangential issues is not getting us any closer to the koko of the matter. SHOULD a wife's submission to her husband be unconditional? Even in a physically abusive marriage? Yes or No. The questions are simple enough.

You can 'extrapolate' your answer from earlier posts. You're good at extrapolating so it shouldn't be an issue. You could also start a new thread.

from all I have read, I see that

-most Nigerian men would want a submissive wife. They see submission as an order from God and something that makes marriage work.
-Others argue that even though submission is desirable, there are conditions when the woman must not give in
-Some women hate the word, prolly because it puts them at the 'disadvantaged' end
-some other women see it as a means of deriving the pleasure of God in their marriage.


I have learnt a lot. And thanks to the mod for finding it homepage worthy


. .

MarcAnthon:

You can 'extrapolate' your answer from earlier posts. You're good at extrapolating so it shouldn't be an issue. You could also start a new thread.

Hahaha! Nice way to avoid committing yourself to an answer! Bloody Pharisee! Abeg, comot jare!

queensmith:

theres something wrong with this reasoning on soooo many levels ayour claims are unfounded and untrue.
seriously though? but seriously? you will rather die of aids than have your child divorce? Thank you for that, you have now given me the true reason as to why that country is in such a mess, it's full of mad people with ill logic. such nonsense!
now to answer your first question
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_HIV/AIDS_adult_prevalence_rate 3rd place

I can also see why westèrn countries have the highest number of immoral behaviour and lack of proper home training. Am sure your link is out dated cause EVERY ONE knows southafrica has the highest amount of std's and the reason is because of educated gals like you.

I didn't need to read to the end of the thread to make a comment, The issue quite simple, I knw at everyone has had bosses b4 at work, Ur husband at home is similar to ur boss. or leader, Sometimes you dnt agree with ur leader and cn make ur voice known on ow something should be handled, Your boss has the right to pick ur opinion(If it is good enuff) or another opinion, But it should be in the interest of every party, That is where the issue of LOVE comes in, And remember if the company (Your family) fails the boss is the first to take blame, Even b4 God,
@queensmith I've always said it, With ur behaviour u will neva get married, Unless to a very FOOLISH man.

^^ more advice from 12 inches? i'd do without!

@tivita more hateful speculation? Is it a crime to be educated, it should be a crime to be an ignorant individual like yourself who assumes and concludes nonsense.
I cannot continue dialogue with a slowpoke such as yourself, tis foolish to even do so.

To be submissive simply mean to be respectful to ur husband.

At 12 inches. She is the type of woman if she is lucky gets married at 40 or forever remains single like most white women. Queen ur an educated gal who uses education for the wrong things. May God help you. You better humble your self or forever remain single or a virgin at 40.

^^ ahhh is that what you guys tell yourselves? Ignorance is a terrible disease.

Why are you still here sef? shouldnt you be busy catching aids submitting to your husband? Run along now.

Total submission to one's spouse only work effectively if one is married to one's chosen partner from heaven.It's takes the grace of God before this could manifest.If the couple are God fearing and there marriage is built on Jesus Christ.

Opinion are bounds to differ in every topic for discussion. But in the case of submission in marriage is not suppose to be thrown for discussion. Because it is a command in the Holy Books (The Qur'an and the Bible). Meanwhile Submission does not mean women are not allow to takes decision but She is not allowed to do it wholeheartedly. Submission literarily means The husband's decision overpowers, overrides his wife's decisions. If this is strictly followed by all women there will be less trouble in the family. Even if his decision brings "havoc", GOD whose commands she follow will not allow it to affect her in particular because she ve followed His commands. So my dear sisters who are preparing to join the team of married women should endeavour to desist from all act that could bring misunderstanding in your marriage such as not submissive to your hubby's decision, try as much as possible to be AMIABLE WIFE. The benefit is enormous and the reward is unquantifiable. BELIEVE ME.

Submission is whatever the husband says it is.

Most women consider submission to being a doormat. Not every man likes or wants that- it depends on the guy.

Its not about being a stepford wife (all robots) but about individual situations.

All this women that finds it difficult to play their roles as women in marriage are those type that will not allow married men to rest and will be the first to complain that men are cheat.

You talk true o.

After being very "independent" and "everything a man could want in a woman" the next thing you hear is they're sinking their fangs into someone else's man since the single men dont make themselves available.

Young modern women, you need to set a sign and show the world how it is done.

I advice that during your traditional marriage, you stand up while giving your husband the wine or better still get him to kneel.
Already you go in on your knees and you ask if it is a thing of the past

Most of the problems in a marriage are a result f one or both partners not living up to their responsibilities.  If a woman does what is expected of her and runs her home and family competently. you even have  the man submitting to her in many ways. The man will be only too willing to perform the functions you assign to him because he sees how well the home is being run. There is also little need for him to intervene.

Why do women have a problem with submission. There are billions of people in the world and you can roar like a lion for every one of them, so what is the problem about submitting to one man?
Submission means not just obeying but respecting a man because he is worthy of respect. Having high regard for him and getting down from this ego trip while interacting with him.

Do you have to be submissive before the marriage?
Normally a woman should be feminine all the time and with every one. That includes qualities like being respectful, soft spoken, considerate etc.If a woman has those qualities she does not even have to make so much effort when she is married to fit into the role of a wife.

MY husband is everything and more to me. My best friend, my lover, my brother and my father, I do not consciously submit to him but it happens by reflex. I know already over the years how he would react to most things and so I make sure I do not do anything that would hurt him or anger him.
Initially it was a learning process for both of us but we got there or are getting there. Along the way allot of mistakes were made but being humble and open helps a long way.

mutter:

Young modern women, you need to set a sign and show the world how it is done.

I advice that during your traditional marriage, you stand up while giving your husband the wine or better still get him to kneel.
Already you go in on your knees and you ask if it is a thing of the past

Most of the problems in a marriage are a result f one or both partners not living up to their responsibilities. If a woman does what is expected of her and runs her home and family competently. you even have the man submitting to her in many ways. The man will be only too willing to perform the functions you assign to him because he sees how well the home is being run. There is also little need for him to intervene.

Why do women have a problem with submission. There are billions of people in the world and you can roar like a lion for every one of them, so what is the problem about submitting to one man?
Submission means not just obeying but respecting a man because he is worthy of respect. Having high regard for him and getting down from this ego trip while interacting with him.

Do you have to be submissive before the marriage?
Normally a woman should be feminine all the time and with every one. That includes qualities like being respectful, soft spoken, considerate etc. I a woman ha those qualities she does not even have to make so much effort when she is married to fit into the role of a wife.

MY husband is everything and more to me. My best friend, my lover, my brother and my father, I do not consciously submit to him but it happens by reflex. I know already over the years how he would react to most things and so I make sure I do not do anything that would hurt him or anger him.
Initially it was a learning process for both of us but we got there or are getting there. Along the way allot of mistakes were made but being humble and open helps a long way.

God bless you.Those women that refuse to submit to their husband wold only have themselves to blame for whatever happens eventually cos i dont see susch marriages surviving.some Women of this days want to be equal or greater than their husband and you think that marriage will work.Never!

Chei men don suffer. Women dont want to submit again,some are even placing value on some womanly role such as 'giving advices',taking care of thier babies,cooking etc. This same women will demand a big pay-off after they contribute to marital collapse.
They marriage institution is very much at risk same with raising good children(not drug baron,robber and so on).

Greetings,

I’m extremely pleased to see that many have a clear understanding of submission and how it is in no way caveated in the Bible.

Especially in light of those who would come in here to declare wifely submission as “contingent” on husbandly love. I won’t deny anyone’ right to hold that position, but please don’t present it as “based on God’ word”.

The immature (unprepared or unready and essentially not truly capable of biblically prescribed love) should not marry. If you marry such a man or woman of your own free will, accept the responsibility and the consequences.

To those that have the understanding to marry properly, submission will not be an issue.

To those that come on here happy to publish the fact that they married “bad people”. Unless it was under duress, you and yours are singularly responsible for that.

Get understanding, then get married.

Regards
TV

dasparrow u rock a million times

Mutter never fails, the vomit was everywhere i couldnt stop it. Omg your post was severely nauseating ,i have to go and take some paracetamol for my stomach then meditate to erase it from my memory ,eurgh! why even bother being human, females might as well be dogs trained not to bark until the master tells them to.

According to you women are not even born with personalities! they must be silent and soft spoken dear lawd almighty i cant listen to the crap.

Seriously i have to go clean up the vomit.

mutter:

Young modern women, you need to set a sign and show the world how it is done.

I advice that during your traditional marriage, you stand up while giving your husband the wine or better still get him to kneel.
Already you go in on your knees and you ask if it is a thing of the past

Most of the problems in a marriage are a result f one or both partners not living up to their responsibilities.  If a woman does what is expected of her and runs her home and family competently. you even have  the man submitting to her in many ways. The man will be only too willing to perform the functions you assign to him because he sees how well the home is being run. There is also little need for him to intervene.

Why do women have a problem with submission. There are billions of people in the world and you can roar like a lion for every one of them, so what is the problem about submitting to one man?
Submission means not just obeying but respecting a man because he is worthy of respect. Having high regard for him and getting down from this ego trip while interacting with him.

Do you have to be submissive before the marriage?
Normally a woman should be feminine all the time and with every one. That includes qualities like being respectful, soft spoken, considerate etc.If a woman has those qualities she does not even have to make so much effort when she is married to fit into the role of a wife.

MY husband is everything and more to me. My best friend, my lover, my brother and my father, I do not consciously submit to him but it happens by reflex. I know already over the years how he would react to most things and so I make sure I do not do anything that would hurt him or anger him.
Initially it was a learning process for both of us but we got there or are getting there. Along the way allot of mistakes were made but being humble and open helps a long way.

As far as you are concerned, submission means losing one's self. I disagree.

You can be submissive and still maintain your individuality.

Only men who are over bearing will expect their wives to be doormat . . .  or maybe men who married dunces! 

My husband values my opinion, he doesn't make a decision without consulting me because he knows I have a lot to bring to the table . .  . I on the other hand respect him, not just because he's my God husband, but because he's 5 years older than I am.

I am all for a woman being feminine. But being feminine does not mean being weak.

queensmith:

Mutter never fails, the vomit was everywhere i couldnt stop it. Omg your post was severely nauseating ,i have to go and take some paracetamol for my stomach then meditate to erase it from my memory ,eurgh! why even bother being human, females might as well be dogs trained not to bark until the master tells them to.

According to you women are not even born with personalities! they must be silent and soft spoken dear lawd almighty i cant listen to the crap.

Seriously i have to go clean up the vomit.

Get a pregnancy test while you are at it dear . . . you've been vomitting a lot lately!

Lol! if only!

Even so i think being feminie just means having lady parts ,i dont think being feminine means one has to 'submit' to someone elses ideas, values, decisions or opinions. I understand thats how some cultures work, and how marriage may have been in the 1980s but i dont appreciate it and i certainly dont respect it. Its backwards beliefs and we no longer live in jungles and wear leaves for pants so we really need to let this 'greatersex' thing go.

queensmith:

Lol! if only!

Damn! I thought I would have company in this misery . .  

queensmith:

Even so i think being feminie just means having lady parts ,i dont think being feminine means one has to 'submit' to someone elses ideas, values, decisions or opinions. I understand thats how some cultures work, and how marriage may have been in the 1980s but i dont appreciate it and i certainly dont respect it. Its backwards beliefs and we no longer live in jungles and wear leaves for pants so we really need to let this 'greatersex' thing go.

Actually, just like every institution, there's is a designated head in every marriage. Being 'masculine' makes you the automatic head of the home. A man, by virtue of his 'body parts', gets to be in charge and there's no arguing with that.

That's why the man proposes, the man pays the dowry, the man takes the wife to his house and she bears his name, the children bear the man's name e.t.c. It's the way it it . . . simple!

deols:

from all I have read,
-some other women see it as a means of deriving the pleasure of God in their marriage.





. .

GBAM!

Lol aww kpele how far along are u?

Im aware its part of some cultures, but i still dont agree with it. Im also aware religions believe women are only here to help the men, i don't agree with that either. I won't agree with any notion that dictates a woman is worth any less than a man. Thats just me- ive thought it through and to me it makes no sense and has no justification. Why should a woman be viewed as less when she does much more?

A marriage is meaningless to a woman if she has no say in it? She cant take any credit for any outcome if she's simply been dormant and parasitic through it? She's no different to a helpless child. My2centssha

Ujujoan:

As far as you are concerned, submission means losing one's self. I disagree.

You can be submissive and still maintain your individuality.

Only men who are over bearing will expect their wives to be doormat . . .  or maybe men who married dunces!  

My husband values my opinion, he doesn't make a decision without consulting me because he knows I have a lot to bring to the table . .  . I on the other hand respect him, not just because he's my God husband, but because he's 5 years older than I am.

I am all for a woman being feminine. But being feminine does not mean being weak.

WORD!!!!

Accept him as the head of the home even if he is younger than you and less financially blessed

Respect him as the head of the home

Obey him as long as it does not contravene the laws of the Lord.

Make ''it'' available for him when he needs it.

The man too must submit to his wife
The man should not see his wife as a sex machine or as a slave to be abused
The man should as a first requirement love his wife unconditionally, then the woman will submit voluntarily, willingly and lovingly.