Sam_Ikenna:

Ndu Nwanne, I'm still waiting.

Sam_Ikenna:


If keeping Nigeria united requires that 5000 (not 30000) of your people be butchered in 1 year (not 3 months) by another group, and if your people withdraw back to their ancestral land and declare their own independence that FG should launch a humane war (not genocidal) that will kill 500,000 of your people (not one million or 3 million, just mere 500,000) to bring them back, and after the war let FG give your people 500 pounds each (not 20 pounds), would you accept it? Would you still accept that this "task that must be done" must go on?

Mind you, I didn't put Asaba, abandon property, starvation, and shooting at everything that doesn't move because after all its a humane war.

Ndu Nwanne I'm waiting for your answer.

Sam_Ikenna:

Ndu_chuks Nwanne, let me first say that (1) you are not Igbo and (2) you don't have to forgive Ojukwu for anything.

Sam_Ikenna:

In my earlier post I asked "Nigerians" in NL to state in unambiguous terms the rightness or wrongness of the justice that Nigeria administered to innocent men in Asaba in 1967, Easterners in the north in 1966, and finally Biafrans during and after the war. I also stated that for those who believe that the justice Asaba and the rest of Biafrans got was a well deserved one to say in clear terms that if their people were under the same circumstance they would, in good faith, accept that same Nigerian justice.

ndu_chucks:

I'm going to cut through the chase and answer the above question before addressing the other presumptions or presuppositions contained in your post. I'm afraid however, that you will not get an exotic answer from me, for I am a pacifist who does not believe that a single Nigerian needs to die to keep Nigeria one, two, three or six for that matter. My solution (answer) to your question (problem) is therefore the trivial solution.  Let me simplify this mathematically: the equation x + 13y = 0 has the trivial solution x = 0, y = 0. Nontrivial solutions exist however.  Shey you get my point?

Onlytruth:

ndu_chucks,

I have already replaced all the zeroes in that your false equation with "to keep Nigeria one is a task that must be done" -which in numerical terms means ad infinitum.
That is what you really believe, which is why you defend mass murderers like Murtala Muhammad.
Embrace your beliefs bro. 

Azikiwe Ebele GEJ:
I want to close this day by remembering a great fallen patriot, a man who paid the Supreme price for this nation and a man whose zeal for Nigeria's unity knew no bounds. Today, I remember General Murtala Ramat Mohammed who fell to the assassins bullets on this day 36 years ago. May his soul continue to rest in peace.

ndu_chucks:

Eze Igbo NL, go and read up on mathematical induction olodo. ad infinitum ko, continuum ni.

The trouble with you people is that you continue to live in denial. You lost the war, period!!  Your supreme leader Ikemba Eze Igbo Gburugburu, RIP, accepted this reality and embarrassed patriotism. He ran for elective offices and even for the Presidency. He formed APGA and learnt to live by democratic ideals. Your own leaders and governors are ready to imprison and kill you people if you try any foolishness.

Here's what an Igbo son, Azikwe Ebele Jonathan had to say in remembrance of  Murtala Mohammed, your own hateful opinion on the Patriot is irrelivant and null:

@Obiagu1, stop acting as if you are a dummy who cannot read. My position is as clear as a whistle, "killing of a single Nigerian citizen is morally reprehensible, whether during a war or in peace" I know you were expecting a bigoted response from me and I am sorry to disappoint you.

P.S. There will always be unintended consequences when wayward soldiers carryout coups that are not well thought out and killing leaders from particular regions while sparing those from theirs.

Sam_Ikenna:

Anyway let me add one thing here since you said you don't justify the death of any Nigerian whether in war or peace. The question goes like this - since your a pacifist, does it mean you're now withdrawing your support for the war Gowon launched on the East?

I know I haven't read where you justified the war, I'm just assuming you do but if you actually don't then I apologize.
Anyway, going back to Gowon's war on the East, do you support it? if yes, how does that fit into your pacifism bearing in mind you're an avowed hater of blood and war? If your answer is no then state it and we'll squash everything.

Sam_Ikenna:

I rest my case. I can now confidently say that your pacifism is a mere mockery of its true meaning. Lets look at the words you used while referring to Northerners and Ojukwu - For Northerners you said  "I understand why the Northerners reacted to the killing of their beloved leaders by Nzeogwu and others" and for Ojukwu you stated [b]"I also understand why Ojukwu took his treasonous steps." [/b]According to you Northerners reacted while Ojukwu was a treasonable felon.

You see, the reason I even started this is to get your full opinion given how much "One United Nigeria" means to you. Now I see what it means to you is diametrically opposed to my future and well-being. By your own definition, I should stick with Nigeria no matter what. In fact in your dictionary the word self determination might as well vanish because its treason to think or attempt such. According to you If SS/SE gets together for disintegration from a country that gave them more deaths than they could bury they should and would be crushed "again" by GREAT Nigerian Army - really? I see. Well I have news for whoever attempts to crush my people "again"  - that news is you will do it from the grave. Its not boasting. I can promise you they will breathe and choke in lethal gas proudly made and administered by Sam_Ikenna.

As for Ojukwu, he did what we asked him to do - what did we ask him? - declare Biafra and by God we will defend it! He did his job well and as for Biafra's defense - its still not over as long as someone from 1000 kilometers away from me thinks he can define and distort my right to suit his ego, oil money, and political hegemony.

You know, it baffles me how you think I can coexist in the same nation with you when you exonerate murderers and exalt a murderous army that has done nothing but join in the mass murder of my people in the north and after losing out in election contest unleashed their deadly Boko Haram on us.

On a final note I will say this - After 52 years of independence and 42 years since the end of Biafra/Nigeria war it seems that macabre dance is becoming much more pronounced again. The same people that beat the drums the first time are beating it the second time thinking they have the numbers, the mastery, the courage, and the strength to dance it like they did the first time. They were helped to lift the trophy of the first dance and now they believe they're invisible hence the beating for the second show. They've been good propagandists and masters of treachery for so long that they've lost the meaning of time and change. They think they're our lords and they gloat over their enabled/assisted triumph over their "captives." Due to their inability to follow time and change they've failed to realize that their "captives" are no longer in chains and cuffs - the captives have been free for so long and are now better masters at propaganda and treachery and are more than ready for the second macabre dance.

Abagworo:


That 12 State structure was hurriedly drawn at the dawn of the war obviously as a war weapon. I do not know the basis on which the division was done. Some claimed ethnicity but I believe oil played a key role.

Abagworo:


The creation of the Mid-West was constitutional and followed due process. That 0f 1967 was clearly a war weapon as it was hurriedly done.

Dudu_Negro:

Abagworo,

I said the state of things when the war began! I was not concerned about the debate of why the 12 states were formed. But since you brought up the reason behind this creations then I will gladly entertain your inquiry.

The first constitution we had was the Independence Constitution of 1960, which went into effect on October 1st 1960. This was superseded by the constitution of October 1st 1963 promulgated by Azikiwe as the First Republic Constitution. This was when Zik carved Mid West out of West. All the regions knew there was oil in the Niger Delta but the Hausas did not have full appreciation and value of the possibilities and were not privvy to the full assessment or extent of the oil resources and wealth in the offshore Delta area but the Yorubas and the Igbos knew and had this information.

There was a academic outfit from University of Ibadan that acted as a ad-hoc strategic policy team for Western Region. They write proposals formulated from research and analytical outputs to advance the policies and politics of the West. So Awo knew about the oil reserves. Akintola had some issues with this group because they were too loyal to Awo, instead of the government of the region. West was very liberal in its politics but also very volatile in its demand for allegiance. . . . people get killed for falling out of favor with political ideologies and party principles. From 1962/63, the West was ablaze with political wars and up until 1966. Strong allegiances in different party factions and turfs weakened the erstwhile strong and unified political frontier.

Western region was also the only region in the entire country where education was free. (proposed in 1952 but started in January 1955). Western house in Ibadan was the secretariat for the following provinces included in the region - Abeokuta, Bini, Lagos (minus Federal Capital), Delta, Ibadan, Ijebu, Ondo and Oyo. These were the Western provinces. Whatever obtains in Ibadan is uniformly deployed and implemented in all the provinces. Every person born and of school age in any of these provinces, if they attended school between January 1955 and Jan 1966 (coup), did so on the platform of Western region's socio-political programme. There were other programmes in tandem with the free education programme; free health being one of them. East did not have this and North did not.

Awo wanted confederacy, Zik wanted nationalism. Awo wanted each region to rule and determine its own future, Zik wanted all the regions to be ruled and directed from a unified center. Zik, in collaboration with Eastern elements, devised a means by which the growth in the West could be stunted. Awo had to be eliminated! Killing Awo will set the country on fire. So he was set up, along with others. . . . including Anthony Enahoro. They were tried in front of Justice Sowemimo, a Yoruba, and convicted and sentenced to imprisonment. This was on September 11, 1963. 19 days later my friend, Zik changed the constitution and carved Mid West out of Western region. lol! Following that rapid action the West protested, but in the wake of its turbulent political wars and chaos, its handicapped voice had no effect.

Akintola was very savvy in his understanding of local politics, he lacked backing of the UnIbadan academic corps that had supported Awo as Premier. He therefore was not informed in the broad policies with which to manipulate national politics successfully. Awo and Akintola had different styles of governing; Awo was tactful, Akintola was tenacious. If Awo did not succeed in one approach, he employs a different approach for the same goal until he gets what he wants. Akintola did not believe in changing tactics. . . .if there are barriers in his way, he believes in knocking them over to get through to his goal. His energy and focus were greatly consumed by events on the ground in West and therefore distracted from the rapidly changing events at national level.

With Awo in prison, that left Zik with Ahmadu Bello as contender for National politics and power, Okpara, the premier of Eastern region, was in status quo mode and in concordance with Zik's ambition and leadership. The West is successfully broken and isolated from oil welath, the North had no oil and so the East remained the only region with oil wealth. Therefore, if Igbo can retain nationalism at all cost and did not loose any of the other regions, then it will sit on an empire of massive wealth from groundnut and cotton in North, cocoa, palm oil and rubber in West, cocoa, palm oil, rubber and oil in MidWest, coal, palm oil, rubber and oil in East. All these will be in the hand and domination of Ndigbo. This plot is what fed Zik's insistence for nationalism. To implement it successfully, he criss-crossed Army personnell from their home states into different tribal lands. The ethnic balance in civil service was rapidly been manipulated as well the Army officer corp. Ahmadu Bello grew dissatisfied with the arrangements and changes and his loss of regional power to a central government. Economies and regional authority of the natives was invaded and subordinated to the market forces and statutory administration of government headed by Ndigbo. This dissatisfaction is vented in a public interview that is now widely distributed online. Ahmadu Bello then began a series of move to seceed the Northern people out of Nigeria. In West, Akintola had locked down with his opponents and defiant elements of AG. . . . the turmoil boiled over and had the appearance of triggering restlessness in other areas, particularly Niger Delta Volunteer Force led by Isaac Boro. Boro was leading a grassroot movement that defied and despised the Eastern region's monopoly and abuse of power against minorities in the Delta area, An urgent solution was needed to bring Boro, Bello and Akintola under check before "nationalism", Zik's darling baby was prematurely killed. This was what led to the Igbo coup of Jan66.

Ndigbo must be the king of Nigeria and to do that successfully, the top echelon of other ethnicities in military and civil power must be disabled and all oppositions to this schemed domination demolished and removed. Zik knew about the coup, Okpara knew about the coup and Ironsi knew about the coup. I dont need to recap that story it has been talked about many times, so I will skip it. So, what happened after the coup?

In violation of the constitution of the First Republic promulgated October 1st 1963, Orizu (Igbo man), Senate President, installed Ironsi in power. Ironsi immediately issued decree 34 and suspended the constitution. As an emphasis, he also committed to nationalism. In other words, Zik's vision of Ndigbo dominating and monopolizing power in Nigeria continues and will be implemented with boots and guns if necessary. The Hausas were now more than ever adamant on getting out of Nigeria. To placate and stall their demands. . . . he promoted Igbo and Hausas military personnell only but not Yorubas. He left the military criss-crossed postings in place and rapidly elevated Igbo civil servants and began relocating them to North. The aim being to begin the plan of direct rule of Hausaland. . . take Sharia courts and native authority out and install and effect civil and statutory laws and central governance accountable only to the Head of State. . . . or as they called him SUPREME COMMANDER! Doesn't that title alone say it all?

After Coup of July66, pushed out of power and the reins of control for "nationalism" in the hand of a Northerner, Ndigbo suddenly realized that nationalism is not a good plan for the country and sought confederacy. This is one of reasons for Aburi. Gowon implemented Aburi in the best way he could fit it into a national agenda. . , Ojukwu then raged that the agreements of the accord was violated and he will take his people out of Nigeria before he would submit to a national power in which the regions had no control of their own destiny and management. Gowon declared a decree and state of emergency in East and created 12 states, breaking Easten region and isolating Igbo land, thereby freeing Isaac Boro land and Ibibioland. Igbo lost its access to the oil wealth. This is exact same policy employed by Ndigbo to eliminate and isolate West. The Northerner followed that precedence and Ojukwu, dissatisfied declared secession. When Biafran army started out. . . .the first places they went and planted their Biafra flag was oil producing states. . . . South Eastern state, Rivers State and Bendel state. The Biafran war strategy was aimed at capturing and subordinating the entire country. . . .starting from oil lands, then West and then up North. What it could not accomplish politically, it sought, with boots, guns and bullets, to execute militarily. Both approaches failed. The nationalism that Ndigbo wished and planted forcefully on others, is today a heavy yoke around its neck.

Do not do unto others that which if done to you will distress your heart and burden your spirit, . . . law of "cause and effect" (Karma).


Anyway, Abagworo. . . if you have any more question or if you want to open another can of worms. . . .please feel free to.

ndu_chucks:

I'm glad you have already apologized for implying that I offered justification for the civil war. Your apology is accepted. Let me also add that I understand why the Northerners reacted to the killing of their beloved leaders by Nzeogwu and others; I also understand why Ojukwu took his treasonous steps.  I am unable however, to find any justification for  Ojukwu's act of not surrendering when it became apparent that biafra had lost - why must he allow thousands of more people to die in vain while he himself eventually fled the scene? By the same token, I cannot offer any justification for the killing of innocent Nigerians for any cause, period.

I am also of the opinion that the next attempt by any region to secede via military actions will  lead to more deaths than we had in Rwanda. We are better off as one Nation under God (Allah), than to kills ourselves off via ethnic cleansing. You people who are still calling for biafra, in my opinion are either foolish, wicked, or both. You all need to learn how to operate in a democracy and form coalitions to fight for your interests legally. 

There has been a lot of noise about SS and SE alliance. This is a good thing if the said alliance is a political one as shown by the outcome of the last Presidential election.  If on the other hand, such an alliance is to tear the country apart and plan for seccession, I'm afraid you people will be crushed once again by the great Nigerian Army, whether I am a pacifist or not.   

Dudu_Negro:

Biafra ought to be remorseful and asking for forgivenes and paying reparations. . . instead these guys are demanding heroic status for their wayward coup planners and rebel leaders. Biafra owe Nigeria some explanations.

Katsumoto:


People can debate the circumstances leading to Nigeria's independence, post, independence events, and the civil war at any point. The point Sam Ikenna is making is why must Nigeria remain at all cost? Isn't it time for Nigerians to take stock and call it quits if necessary? What is advantageous to millions of Nigerians that blood must be shed continually? Why are you so against disintegration? At least be honest with yourself. Are you against disintegration because you love other Nigerians so much or because of the black gold?

What ever the reasons were for the civil war, isn't it clear today that Nigeria is a FAILED state? Why do you also persist in war mongering? Why must disintegration lead to war? In the last 20 years, at least five nations have all broken up peacefully; the USSR, Yugoslavia, Czechoslovakia, Ethiopia/Eritrea and even Sudan (because separation was achieved through a referendum). Repeating the horrors of the civil war and a possible conflict should Nigeria disintegrate will not stop the calls for separation. If the situation of things do not improve, that agitation will not diminish even after you are long gone. Perhaps your concern is that it shouldn't happen in your life time (I do pray for a long life for you) but is that something you want your children and grandchildren to deal with?


Ndigbo and other Easterners paid the price in blood for the actions of a few. Rather it is former Nigerian leaders such as Gowon who owe Ndigbo an apology for their inability to protect INNOCENT civilians during the pogroms before the war. Lets be fair here.

I am not pro or against Nigeria (my interest is very minimal) but all options should be discussed.

Katsumoto:

Ndigbo and other Easterners paid the price in blood for the actions of a few. Rather it is former Nigerian leaders such as Gowon who owe Ndigbo an apology for their inability to protect INNOCENT civilians during the pogroms before the war. Lets be fair here.

I am not pro or against Nigeria (my interest is very minimal) but all options should be discussed.

Genius100:

Chief, Nigeria should separate if the cause for Nigeria's woes is the fact that we are one entity. There is no ounce of evidence to suppport the fact that one region would be better off on its own. The Governors have as much power as needed to transform their states, yet the same corruption thrives in every single state in Nigeria. Nigeria's main problem is corruption. Get rid of corruption and Nigeria will cease to be a failure,

ndu_chucks:

@Obiagu1, stop acting as if you are a dummy who cannot read. My position is as clear as a whistle, "killing of a single Nigerian citizen is morally reprehensible, whether during a war or in peace" I know you were expecting a bigoted response from me and I am sorry to disappoint you.

P.S. There will always be unintended consequences when wayward soldiers carryout coups that are not well thought out and kill leaders from particular regions while sparing those from theirs.

Sam_Ikenna:

Ndu, you've been building this One Nigeria for 52 years since independence and 42 since the end of civil war and we've seen how far you can go. Now this is your "how far" - Millions of beggars, millions almajiris with no future, and last but the not the least, Boko haram.

I invite you to check the condition of core north and its prospects back then in 1960 and compare it with whats obtainable today. You might say yeah we have this and that today as gain/profit, but have you really looked at the awful downside? If you actually did then you wont be here castigating others for their future/desire to be away from you.

The fact is - the more core north stays with Nigeria the more they go down, you might not realize it. Your people take free oil money and have become unaccountable to anyone and guess who pays for it? Northern poor masses. Yes our politicians take money too but they know we're as smart as they are so they don't take us for a ride. We go to same school where their kids go to, we try to eat where they eat, so basically we are fishing near their private ponds. Can you say the same in Core North? So my brother you are the one deluding your self with this Oneness mantra.

You better wake up and realize that even though we're in Nigeria with you we're also not in Nigeria with you. You might not realize it because you're fixated in One Nigeria. We know what you mean when you say one Nigeria, we're not fools.

If you have existed as one Nigeria and after 52 years your brothers are now setting schools ablaze, bombing churches, targeting clerics, imposing sharia, cattle rearers chopping off arms and legs, plucking out eyes, Desecrating women as the cattle munches on anything green in farmers farm, Tiv vs Fulani, Berom vs Fulani, Beggars everywhere, Kano exploding, Imo state or Ekiti state having more than or almost the total number of Core northern university admission, poverty skyrocketing, power slipping away from core north, etc. When will you realize you're better off on your own?

If Igbo statistics look as abysmal as that above I will spit on the grave of my forefathers and move to Somalia after all whats the difference - I wont be here holding on to failure.

The reason ND, SS, Ijaw, Oduaa, Igbo, and MB people have at one time or the other threatened to want out of Nigeria is because they feel they can do better than Nigeria - what about you? The reason you're depicting me as throwing "effeminate emotions" is because you've run out of ideas hence the insult. I wont go down that road with you because I'm not a fool.

The issue is people's right to self determination, if it hurts you then change your hegemonic ways maybe then we can talk about unity. As Igbo, I don't ask for pity, I tell you what my right is and if you think you can keep it forever then be ready for confrontation down the road. You can use cheap blackmail, we saw it during the war but you can now see the war is very much alive as more and more groups are becoming assertive and demanding while you and your brothers are still basking in the euphoric hang-over of you war "victory."

Wake up buddy!