ndu_chucks:

Genius100, Yours is a lone voice of reason.

Many of these people erroneously think that the separation of Nigeria will resolve most problems. I completely agree with you that the same issues of corruption and tribalism will destroy the newly formed nations quicker than it would Nigeria as it is currently organized.

No one is suggesting that the new nations would be without issues/problems. Nations that have existed for centuries, England, Greece are currently facing the morst severe financial crisis in their histories.

What others are suggesting is that carrying on with an approach that has failed will NEVER lead to success. It is time for a new approach.

Sam_Ikenna:

Ndu, you've been building this One Nigeria for 52 years since independence and 42 since the end of civil war and we've seen how far you can go. Now this is your "how far" - Millions of beggars, millions almajiris with no future, and last but the not the least, Boko haram.

I invite you to check the condition of core north and its prospects back then in 1960 and compare it with whats obtainable today. You might say yeah we have this and that today as gain/profit, but have you really looked at the awful downside? If you actually did then you wont be here castigating others for their future/desire to be away from you.

The fact is - the more core north stays with Nigeria the more they go down, you might not realize it. Your people take free oil money and have become unaccountable to anyone and guess who pays for it? Northern poor masses. Yes our politicians take money too but they know we're as smart as they are so they don't take us for a ride. We go to same school where their kids go to, we try to eat where they eat, so basically we are fishing near their private ponds. Can you say the same in Core North? So my brother you are the one deluding your self with this Oneness mantra.

You better wake up and realize that even though we're in Nigeria with you we're also not in Nigeria with you. You might not realize it because you're fixated in One Nigeria. We know what you mean when you say one Nigeria, we're not fools.

If you have existed as one Nigeria and after 52 years your brothers are now setting schools ablaze, bombing churches, targeting clerics, imposing sharia, cattle rearers chopping off arms and legs, plucking out eyes, Desecrating women as the cattle munches on anything green in farmers farm, Tiv vs Fulani, Berom vs Fulani, Beggars everywhere, Kano exploding, Imo state or Ekiti state having more than or almost the total number of Core northern university admission, poverty skyrocketing, power slipping away from core north, etc. When will you realize you're better off on your own?

If Igbo statistics look as abysmal as that above I will spit on the grave of my forefathers and move to Somalia after all whats the difference - I wont be here holding on to failure.

The reason ND, SS, Ijaw, Oduaa, Igbo, and MB people have at one time or the other threatened to want out of Nigeria is because they feel they can do better than Nigeria - what about you? The reason you're depicting me as throwing "effeminate emotions" is because you've run out of ideas hence the insult. I wont go down that road with you because I'm not a fool.

The issue is people's right to self determination, if it hurts you then change your hegemonic ways maybe then we can talk about unity. As Igbo, I don't ask for pity, I tell you what my right is and if you think you can keep it forever then be ready for confrontation down the road. You can use cheap blackmail, we saw it during the war but you can now see the war is very much alive as more and more groups are becoming assertive and demanding while you and your brothers are still basking in the euphoric hang-over of you war "victory."

Wake up buddy!

^^^ Story Story.

nwannem, you have miserably failed to see that Nigerians have a common enemy. The enemy is made up of the corrupt owners of Nigeria, who control the economic and military power in the country. They hail from every region of Nigeria. This enemy continues to r.ape you people with the hope that you continue to fight each other along tribal lines instead of focusing your energy in fighting them.  Even if you get your biafra, the same people will rule you and nothing changes for the better.  The Almajiri in the North is just as marginalized as the Ogoni fisherman, they have all been failed by our corrupt leaders and people like you who are well educated but fail to see who your true enemy is. Shame on you.

Your best bet is to find a way to defeat the enemy completely by playing the democratic game. Trust me, you can do it.

Katz, Gowon or any of those leaders could not even save their own necks from their mutinous soldiers much more save someone else.  You are intimate with this history and have written extensively about it yourself. . . . which one of Katsina, Murtala, Gowon, Danjuma, Adekunle, Ogundipe did not come close to being shot to death for standing in the way to save a fellow Igbo Army officer from the bullet ?  Igbos see these guys as non-Igbo officers but they on the other hand see the Igbo officers as members in an Army bound with espirit de corps.  The action of Fajuyi is a billboard story and a model for portraying heroism and courage.  If a cenotaph ought to be erected for a soldier, any soldier, in this country. . . . . Adekunle Fajuyi should be that soldeir.  He died for his fellow Army officer. , . he died for his Head of State. . . . he was not blinded by ethnicicty. . . . he put family aside and clung to the spirit of nationalism and the espirit de corps that bound all commissioned officers of military service together.  We need millions more Fajuyi.  Banjo fought for their cause. . . . Ojukwu put a bullet in him.  Banjo stood above ethnic differences and fought because he believed in their cause but murdered for it.  Even Effiong that saved many more from slaughter and devastation and surrendered to Obasanjo was labeled a coward by these beasts.  They hate Effiong for surrendering. . . but they love Ojukwu for prolonging suffering and deaths and then escaping.  They want him immortalized.  Igbos are blinded by their ethnic bigotry and asking for cenotaph for Ojukwu and Nzeogwu but not for Fajuyi, not for Effiong.   fvck Biafra and all it stands for!   Untill ndIgbo respect and accomodate others within their own interest. . . I have no respect or wish to sympathise with their woes.  

Beside, Gowon already apologized, though he did not have to.

Katsumoto:

No one is suggesting that the new nations would be without issues/problems. Nations that have existed for centuries, England, Greece are currently facing the morst severe financial crisis in their histories.

What others are suggesting is that carrying on with an approach that has failed will NEVER lead to success. It is time for a new approach.

Only a fool would suggest that the current system does not need to be reformed.  I simply do not believe that the system can only be repaired by breaking up the country.

A very honest national conversation with "breaking up of the country" being off the table, is in order

Dudu_Negro:

Katz, Gowon or any of those leaders could not even save their own necks from their mutinous soldiers much more save someone else.  You are intimate with this history and have written extensively about it yourself. . . . which one of Katsina, Murtala, Gowon, Danjuma, Adekunle, Ogundipe did not come close to being shot to death for standing in the way to save a fellow Igbo Army officer from the bullet ?  Igbos see these guys as non-Igbo officers but they on the other hand see the Igbo officers as members in an Army bound with espirit de corps.  The action of Fajuyi is a billboard story and a model for portraying heroism and courage.  If a cenotaph ought to be erected for a soldier, any soldier, in this country. . . . . Adekunle Fajuyi should be that soldeir.  He died for his fellow Army officer. , . he died for his Head of State. . . . he was not blinded by ethnicicty. . . . he put family aside and clung to the spirit of nationalism and the espirit de corps that bound all commissioned officers of military service together.  We need millions more Fajuyi.  Banjo fought for their cause. . . . Ojukwu put a bullet in him.  Banjo stood above ethnic differences and fought because he believed in their cause but murdered for it.  Even Effiong that saved many more from slaughter and devastation and surrendered to Obasanjo was labeled a coward by these beasts.  They hate Effiong for surrendering. . . but they love Ojukwu for prolonging suffering and deaths and then escaping.  They want him immortalized.  Igbos are blinded by their ethnic bigotry and asking for cenotaph for Ojukwu and Nzeogwu but not for Fajuyi, not for Effiong.   fvck Biafra and all it stands for!   Untill ndIgbo respect and accomodate others within their own interest. . . I have no respect or wish to sympathise with their woes.  

Beside, Gowon already apologized, though he did not have to.  

I completely agree with every word posted here

Dudu_Negro:

Katz, Gowon or any of those leaders could not even save their own necks from their mutinous soldiers much more save someone else.  You are intimate with this history and have written extensively about it yourself. . . . which one of Katsina, Murtala, Gowon, Danjuma, Adekunle, Ogundipe did not come close to being shot to death for standing in the way to save a fellow Igbo Army officer from the bullet ?  Igbos see these guys as non-Igbo officers but they on the other hand see the Igbo officers as members in an Army bound with espirit de corps.  The action of Fajuyi is a billboard story and a model for portraying heroism and courage.  If a cenotaph ought to be erected for a soldier, any soldier, in this country. . . . . Adekunle Fajuyi should be that soldeir.  He died for his fellow Army officer. ,  . he died for his Head of State. . . . he was not blinded by ethnicicty. . . . he put family aside and clung to the spirit of nationalism and the espirit de corps that bound all commissioned officers of military service together.  We need millions more Fajuyi.  Banjo fought for their cause. . . . Ojukwu put a bullet in him.  Banjo stood above ethnic differences and fought because he believed in their cause but murdered for it.  Even Effiong that saved many more from slaughter and devastation and surrendered to Obasanjo was labeled a coward by these beasts.  They hate Effiong for surrendering. . . but they love Ojukwu for prolonging suffering and deaths and then escaping.  They want him immortalized.  Igbos are blinded by their ethnic bigotry and asking for cenotaph for Ojukwu and Nzeogwu but not for Fajuyi, not for Effiong.   fvck Biafra and all it stands for!   Untill ndIgbo respect and accomodate others within their own interest. . . I have no respect or wish to sympathise with their woes.  

Beside, Gowon already apologized, though he did not have to.  

I have few things to let you in on regarding the bolded and they are:

1. I know this is a public forum so its likely for one to read insults from people.
2. I have always tried to show respect to Yoruba race in all my posts.
3. I know you've always said that Igbos usually throw the first mud at Yorubas but in this thread did you see any mud thrown at you?

In conclusion - The reason I dont shout or yell online is because it'll only get my BP high which is not beneficial to me. The only benefit I would get from shouting or yelling is if you call me or my people Beast face to face not in NL.

So, let the convo continue.

Katsumoto:

No one is suggesting that the new nations would be without issues/problems. Nations that have existed for centuries, England, Greece are currently facing the morst severe financial crisis in their histories.

What others are suggesting is that carrying on with an approach that has failed will NEVER lead to success. It is time for a new approach.

Chief, when there is a failure, you do a root cause analysis to find out what caused the failure, and put in place corrective actions that specifically address the cause of the failure. You don't willy nilly make sweeping changes, when the changes you are making may not address the root cause of the failure.

If the problem in Nigeria is endemic corruption, how does splitting the country address the corruption problem? The new enclaves will simply continue to battle the corruption problems. If any of the regions is better equipped to eliminate corruption, we should have seen signs by now with those regions showing way more progress than others.

Sam, when Im discussing politics at ethnic level I hope you will see it as such. I have never ever insulted you personally. As I was writing that word you quoted, "these beasts" . . there are hundreds of insults at that second being hurled at Yorubas by Igbos on many different forums on line. . . in Nigeria and in Ghana. Do we want to be online "ethnic insult police"? I dont want to do that. . . .so when I see insults thrown at Yoruba I respond with mine or I move on and overlook it. When I see insults thrown by Yorubas at others I move on and dont try to stop it. Insults thrown at individuals and in conversations are not my style and you will never see me do it unless I am responding to a personal insult directed at me.

To stop me from insulting Igbo,m if thats an issue with you. . . . then I suggest you patrol the internet and police ethnic insults generally. . .from Igbo to Yoruba and from Yoruba to Igbo.

Genius100:

Chief, when there is a failure, you do a root cause analysis to find out what caused the failure, and put in place corrective actions that specifically address the cause of the failure. You don't willy nilly make sweeping changes, when the changes you are making may not address the root cause of the failure.

If the problem in Nigeria is endemic corruption, how does splitting the country address the corruption problem? The new enclaves will simply continue to battle the corruption problems. If any of the regions is better equipped to eliminate corruption, we should have seen signs by now with those regions showing way more progress than others.

hmmm. . . interesting! corruption is not the root cause of our problem. Entrenching our culture into a Western styled philosophy is the root cause of our problems.

As long we continue to idealize and practice a Western styled mode of governance and socio-economic principles, we will never eliminate corruption from our midst. Thi is so because Western philosophy itself has transformed and evolved into a new world order in which the rules of capitalism is the mainstay of political civilization and advancement. Capitalism is not ideal for any society that has a moral conscience. Capitalism and democracy are married couple. . . . their babies are the corrupted politicians. This is so everywhere in the world and culture where democracy and capitalism is practiced.

So to resolve our problem we need to ask if we want democracy and capitalism or not. If we want it, then we should get used to breeding more corruption. This is totally different from the question of dissolution of Nigeria.

Dudu_Negro:

hmmm. . . interesting! corruption is not the root cause of our problem. Entrenching our culture into a Western styled philosophy is the root cause of our problems.

So to resolve our problem we need to ask if we want democracy and capitalism or not. If we want it, then we should get used to breeding more corruption. This is totally different from the question of dissolution of Nigeria.

Corruption is manageable with proper accountability and we don't have to discard capitalism to get rid of corruption. I disagree that dissolution is the primary or sole solution to our problems as a one nation. If we can reduce corruption by only 30% in our society, the improvements would be remarkable.

Ethnicity and incompatibility fuels corruption in Nigeria. The two are inseparable co-joined twins. what we are operating is the playbook of Britain from the pit of hell and as long as we close our eyes to it and say its only corruption that is our problem then we wont solve it.

Those corrupt leaders rode on the back of ethnicity to steal us dry and we know it. Show me any working society that will steal from one region to feed another, what society would fold its arms while being forced into OIC, what working society is incapable of conducting credible census, what about ID card, what about State creation, resource allocation, why is Lagos regarded the second lagest city in Nigeria but is regarded the largest outside Nigeria, How many LGAs does Lagos have and count how many LGAs other states that started with Lagos now have, why should NYSC members and teachers from certain groups be killed at the slightest provocation, why should an arrested criminal be let loose at ease, show me how criminals from Southern Nigeria that were let loose under the nose of security agents, etc. we should realize that just saying its only corruption isn't going to cut it. Whatever brought corruption in Nigeria is alive and well to perpetuate it. There are differences and there are sharp differences. West and Midwest had differences but they were not sharp, Eastern Nigeria had differences but boy were they not sharp. Can we say the same with East and Core North or West and core North?

Shying away from the obvious isn't going to solve our problems. We either have SNC, move apart a little, or disintegrate completely. In 50 yrs how many people will still be leaving here? I hope we don't leave this trouble for them.

Sam_Ikenna:

Shying away from the obvious isn't going to solve our problems. We either have SNC, move apart a little, or disintegrate completely. In 50 yrs how many people will still be leaving here? I hope we don't leave this trouble for them.

ngwanu, lets have the national conversation, but dissolution will be off the table. That is the lazy man's way out.

Sam_Ikenna:

Ethnicity and incompatibility fuels corruption in Nigeria. The two are inseparable co-joined twins. what we are operating is the playbook of Britain from the pit of hell and as long as we close our eyes to it and say its only corruption that is our problem then we wont solve it.

Those corrupt leaders rode on the back of ethnicity to steal us dry and we know it. Show me any working society that will steal from one region to feed another, what society would fold its arms while being forced into OIC, what working society is incapable of conducting credible census, what about ID card, what about State creation, resource allocation, why is Lagos regarded the second lagest city in Nigeria but is regarded the largest outside Nigeria, How many LGAs does Lagos have and count how many LGAs other states that started with Lagos now have, why should NYSC members and teachers from certain groups be killed at the slightest provocation, why should an arrested criminal be let loose at ease, show me how criminals from Southern Nigeria that were let loose under the nose of security agents, etc. we should realize that just saying its only corruption isn't going to cut it. Whatever brought corruption in Nigeria is alive and well to perpetuate it. There are differences and there are sharp differences. West and Midwest had differences but they were not sharp, Eastern Nigeria had differences but boy were they not sharp. Can we say the same with East and Core North or West and core North?

Shying away from the obvious isn't going to solve our problems. We either have SNC, move apart a little, or disintegrate completely. In 50 yrs how many people will still be leaving here? I hope we don't leave this trouble for them.

Chief, this is nonsensical. If ethnicity and incompatibiliy fuels corruption and they are co-joined twins, why is there so much corruption on the state and local government levels? Guy, stop deceiving yourself.

ndu_chucks:

Corruption is manageable with proper accountability and we don't have to discard capitalism to get rid of corruption. I disagree that dissolution is the primary or sole solution to our problems as a one nation. If we can reduce corruption by only 30% in our society, the improvements would be remarkable.

You speak as if you have a benchmark for this supposed 30%.  What successful model exist out there?  NONE!!   America is the vanguard of capitalism and democracy. . . and it is the worst corrupted nation on earth.  Their corruption is a million times worse than Nigeria's.   They don't even attempt to mitigate it. . . . .they sustain it by getting more people into debt.  When people refuse to take debt they create racket at local levels to harass and throw them in jail.  How about Europe?  Not any better!  So where is the model for a 30% reduction in corruption? The only way to reduce corruption is to promote moral conscience. As we have seen, what is moral for Igbo may be immoral for Yoruba. . . what is moral for Yoruba may be immoral for Hausa. So to serve self-morality, each ethnic group need to go its own way.

Genius100:

Chief, this is nonsensical. If ethnicity and incompatibiliy fuels corruption and they are co-joined twins, why is there so much corruption on the state and local government levels? Guy, stop deceiving yourself.

Well, for your info the local boss has a bigger boss in the state level and the state boss has a much bigger protector in the federal level. Now tell me why any local boss that falls out of love with the boss in the Abuja kisses the canvas in the next election.

Tell me why its so.

Ethnicity keeps Abuja rolling and Abuja keeps the small monsters in the state level alive its just that simple. Its not completely absolute but 70% of the time it works that way.

Ethnicity is the reason we have not solved resource control - Am I lying on this one too?
what about census, National Id card, what do you think keeps them from working right. Say the truth and shame the devil.

ndu_chucks:

ngwanu, lets have the national conversation, but dissolution will be off the table. That is the lazy man's way out.

Why should we put it off the table. Besides thats your opinion, what about mine? Look ,the more you keep saying put it off the table the more people want it on the table, thats just how life works. I hope you remember the story of garden of Eden - tell people something is off limit and see if they wont mess with it. It didnt even work with God and Adam so what makes you think it would work with 160 million people with some deep irreconcilable differences.

Nwanne lets keep on the table, you never know, we might get there and develop respect and love for one another. For us to trully say we are one we have to own the oneness by our voluntary words and actions not a forced one. The union we have now is a sham, little wonder every region is fighting to sit on the highest post. If we desire a true and one Nation we must agree to it. In a true one Nigeria no region or group should kill and get away with it but is that what is happening?

Call for SNC or even disintegration is not a call to hate rather a call to save. The reason its easy for people to keep saying we must be one, we must be one is because they have not been at the recieving end of Nigeria. Tell the parents of the murdered NYSC members about One Nigeria and see if they believe in it. What about victims of several bomb blasts? I was once in Aba when a reprisal attack took place there and that day changed my life. When you bodies pile up like sardines then you will know there is something fundamentally wrong with One Nigeria. We either adress it or disintegrate it. No human life should be wasted for anything in this world much less a sham union.

Dudu_Negro:

Katz, Gowon or any of those leaders could not even save their own necks from their mutinous soldiers much more save someone else.  You are intimate with this history and have written extensively about it yourself. . . . which one of Katsina, Murtala, Gowon, Danjuma, Adekunle, Ogundipe did not come close to being shot to death for standing in the way to save a fellow Igbo Army officer from the bullet ?  Igbos see these guys as non-Igbo officers but they on the other hand see the Igbo officers as members in an Army bound with espirit de corps.  The action of Fajuyi is a billboard story and a model for portraying heroism and courage.  If a cenotaph ought to be erected for a soldier, any soldier, in this country. . . . . Adekunle Fajuyi should be that soldeir.  He died for his fellow Army officer. ,  . he died for his Head of State. . . . he was not blinded by ethnicicty. . . . he put family aside and clung to the spirit of nationalism and the espirit de corps that bound all commissioned officers of military service together.  We need millions more Fajuyi.  Banjo fought for their cause. . . . Ojukwu put a bullet in him.  Banjo stood above ethnic differences and fought because he believed in their cause but murdered for it.  Even Effiong that saved many more from slaughter and devastation and surrendered to Obasanjo was labeled a coward by these beasts.  They hate Effiong for surrendering. . . but they love Ojukwu for prolonging suffering and deaths and then escaping.  They want him immortalized.  Igbos are blinded by their ethnic bigotry and asking for cenotaph for Ojukwu and Nzeogwu but not for Fajuyi, not for Effiong.   fvck Biafra and all it stands for!   Untill ndIgbo respect and accomodate others within their own interest. . . I have no respect or wish to sympathise with their woes.  

Beside, Gowon already apologized, though he did not have to.  

Dude, you're talking trash. Was Katsumoto talking about the soldiers killed in the counter coup? I guess not. He was talking about the massacre of innocent civilians without putting any concrete effort to stop it. The North got their revenge by killing Eastern soldiers including the Head of State, but why the civilians in their thousands?

I hope you are not really a deranged fellow.

Sam_Ikenna:

Well, for your info the local boss has a bigger boss in the state level and the state boss has a much bigger protector in the federal level. Now tell me why any local boss that falls out of love with the boss in the Abuja kisses the canvas in the next election.

Tell me why its so.

Ethnicity keeps Abuja rolling and Abuja keeps the small monsters in the state level alive its just that simple. Its not completely absolute but 70% of the time it works that way.

Ethnicity is the reason we have not solved resource control - Am I lying on this one too?
what about census, National Id card, what do you think keeps them from working right. Say the truth and shame the devil.

Lol. So is it Jonathan that is protecting the corrupt governors in ACN and AGPA and all other opposition parties? Dude, corruption is the reason we have not solved all those problem. Do you think the majority of Yoruba, Igbo, Hausa, Ijaw people have a problem with determining the true population of Nigeria? No, it's the corrupt politicians that benefit from the inaccuracies. The common man derives no benefit from these inaccuracies.

ndu_chucks:

ngwanu, lets have the national conversation, but dissolution will be off the table. That is the lazy man's way out.

Dissolution may be be off the table but there's need for complete restructure of the country. The status quo is not working.

Katsumoto:


People can debate the circumstances leading to Nigeria's independence, post, independence events, and the civil war at any point. The point Sam Ikenna is making is why must Nigeria remain at all cost? Isn't it time for Nigerians to take stock and call it quits if necessary? What is advantageous to millions of Nigerians that blood must be shed continually? Why are you so against disintegration? At least be honest with yourself. Are you against disintegration because you love other Nigerians so much or because of the black gold?

What ever the reasons were for the civil war, isn't it clear today that Nigeria is a FAILED state? Why do you also persist in war mongering? Why must disintegration lead to war? In the last 20 years, at least five nations have all broken up peacefully; the USSR, Yugoslavia, Czechoslovakia, Ethiopia/Eritrea and even Sudan (because separation was achieved through a referendum). Repeating the horrors of the civil war and a possible conflict should Nigeria disintegrate will not stop the calls for separation. If the situation of things do not improve, that agitation will not diminish even after you are long gone. Perhaps your concern is that it shouldn't happen in your life time (I do pray for a long life for you) but is that something you want your children and grandchildren to deal with?


[size=18pt]Ndigbo and other Easterners paid the price in blood for the actions of a few. Rather it is former Nigerian leaders such as Gowon who owe Ndigbo an apology for their inability to protect INNOCENT civilians during the pogroms before the war. Lets be fair here.[/size]

I am not pro or against Nigeria (my interest is very minimal) but all options should be discussed.

Somebody said that 90% of the conflicts in the world can be avoided if people learns to say sorry.

Katsumoto, I salute you for the highlighted comments

Sam_Ikenna:

Ndu, you've been building this One Nigeria for 52 years since independence and 42 since the end of civil war and we've seen how far you can go. Now this is your "how far" - Millions of beggars, millions almajiris with no future, and last but the not the least, Boko haram.

I invite you to check the condition of core north and its prospects back then in 1960 and compare it with whats obtainable today. You might say yeah we have this and that today as gain/profit, but have you really looked at the awful downside? If you actually did then you wont be here castigating others for their future/desire to be away from you.

The fact is - the more core north stays with Nigeria the more they go down, you might not realize it. Your people take free oil money and have become unaccountable to anyone and guess who pays for it? Northern poor masses. Yes our politicians take money too but they know we're as smart as they are so they don't take us for a ride. We go to same school where their kids go to, we try to eat where they eat, so basically we are fishing near their private ponds. Can you say the same in Core North? So my brother you are the one deluding your self with this Oneness mantra.

You better wake up and realize that even though we're in Nigeria with you we're also not in Nigeria with you. You might not realize it because you're fixated in One Nigeria. We know what you mean when you say one Nigeria, we're not fools.

If you have existed as one Nigeria and after 52 years your brothers are now setting schools ablaze, bombing churches, targeting clerics, imposing sharia, cattle rearers chopping off arms and legs, plucking out eyes, Desecrating women as the cattle munches on anything green in farmers farm, Tiv vs Fulani, Berom vs Fulani, Beggars everywhere, Kano exploding, Imo state or Ekiti state having more than or almost the total number of Core northern university admission, poverty skyrocketing, power slipping away from core north, etc. When will you realize you're better off on your own?

If Igbo statistics look as abysmal as that above I will spit on the grave of my forefathers and move to Somalia after all whats the difference - I wont be here holding on to failure.

The reason ND, SS, Ijaw, Oduaa, Igbo, and MB people have at one time or the other threatened to want out of Nigeria is because they feel they can do better than Nigeria - what about you? The reason you're depicting me as throwing "effeminate emotions" is because you've run out of ideas hence the insult. [size=18pt]I wont go down that road with you because I'm not a fool. [/size]

The issue is people's right to self determination, if it hurts you then change your hegemonic ways maybe then we can talk about unity. As Igbo, I don't ask for pity, I tell you what my right is and if you think you can keep it forever then be ready for confrontation down the road. You can use cheap blackmail, we saw it during the war but you can now see the war is very much alive as more and more groups are becoming assertive and demanding while you and your brothers are still basking in the euphoric hang-over of you war "victory."

Wake up buddy!

@Red text

Sam_Ikenna, I must congratulate you for being objective in this forum. Any regular poster here knows how difficult it is to achieve that feat.
I have been following your comments from day 1, and I'm pretty impressed.

I hold u in high regards and I wouldn't want you to descend into gutter with any poster here. Please keep it objective and on point.

Thank you

Genius100:

Lol. So is it Jonathan that is protecting the corrupt governors in ACN and AGPA and all other opposition parties? Dude, corruption is the reason we have not solved all those problem. Do you think the majority of Yoruba, Igbo, Hausa, Ijaw people have a problem with determining the true population of Nigeria? No, it's the corrupt politicians that benefit from the inaccuracies. The common man derives no benefit from these inaccuracies.

I wish the problem in Nigeria as painted by you was true, unfortunately its not. This is Nigeria as I see it: There are three most powerful determinants in Nigeria and they are, listed according to their effects, (1) Ethnicity, (2) Religion, (3) Friendship. Sometimes they swap but often they dont. If you really believe that the problem in Nigeria is just corruption then what breeds it? How did it get to this catastrophic level?

Another point is, if it was by random chance free of any ethnic input that Nigeria became this corrupt and backward why then did we have working and forward moving regional govts during the 60s? Isn't it plausible to say that we became massively corrupt as soon as we evolved this almighty FG with its head as the president.

I'm not trying to absolve the states of their own stupidity but we must realize that the center brought all kinds of things together which led to this current level of corruption. Do you know that in real life Christians don't have any religious obligation to travel to Israel but why do you think they do it anyway? Do you think if Muslim dominated states were in-charge of their revenue with little tax to the center that they would be willing to foot billions for their people to go to Hajj?

Do you know how much the FG spent building Airports in areas where they're not needed? Do you honestly think ethnicity was not a factor in FG contracts and awards? Brother, I just mentioned few things for you to know that ethnicity shaped the fate of Nigeria. Ethnicity brought Nigeria down because it brought massive corruption with it. We've been doing this and pretending for so long but the results are there for all eyes. Telling us to chase corruption without taking out the root, which is FG in Abuja, is nonsensical. If we cant separate let every region do their thing - that's the key. Show me any state or region that is competing now, non. They all wait for monthly allocation from the center - allocation that's riddled with corrupt and bogus figures determined by past military rulers that put their ethnicity and religion over and above national integration.

I said this in one of my posts that if there was no Abuja-FG controlled oil money there would not be Boko Haram. I don't care what their beef is with us, what I need to know is - is there a place called Abuja where people share money? if the ans is yes then people will do anything to get there, if it means using Boko Haram then so be it. After all if we cant compete on education and economy maybe we can compete on violence. And if my opinion is not clear enough then think about OPC, MEND, EGBESU, MASSOB, MOSSOP, etc. all these are products of ethnic induced corruption and fighting. No group wants to be left out in the hot pursuit for resource laden Aso rock. If we separate, regionalize, or confederate today, whatever you call it, all the above groups will die a natural death.

ACM10:

@Red text

Sam_Ikenna, I must congratulate you for being objective in this forum. Any regular poster here knows how difficult it is to achieve that feat.
I have been following your comments from day 1, and I'm pretty impressed.

I hold u in high regards and I wouldn't want you to descend into gutter with any poster here. Please keep it objective and on point.

Thank you

Thanks bro, in the end we're all brothers. We're only asking and looking for space to breathe, thats all.

bro ikenna i have to add that one of the biggest problems facing nigeria is that too much stuupid people have too much voice
imagine this dude Genius100 who is actually Daft100
he cannot follow your simple deductive logic.

Sam_Ikenna:

I wish the problem in Nigeria as painted by you was true, unfortunately its not. This is Nigeria as I see it: There are three most powerful determinants in Nigeria and they are, listed according to their effects, (1) Ethnicity, (2) Religion, (3) Friendship. Sometimes they swap but often they dont. If you really believe that the problem in Nigeria is just corruption then what breeds it? How did it get to this catastrophic level?

Another point is, if it was by random chance free of any ethnic input that Nigeria became this corrupt and backward why then did we have working and forward moving regional govts during the 60s? Isn't it plausible to say that we became massively corrupt as soon as we evolved this almighty FG with its head as the president.

I'm not trying to absolve the states of their own stupidity but we must realize that the center brought all kinds of things together which led to this current level of corruption. Do you know that in real life Christians don't have any religious obligation to travel to Israel but why do you think they do it anyway? Do you think if Muslim dominated states were in-charge of their revenue with little tax to the center that they would be willing to foot billions for their people to go to Hajj?

Do you know how much the FG spent building Airports in areas where they're not needed? Do you honestly think ethnicity was not a factor in FG contracts and awards? Brother, I just mentioned few things for you to know that ethnicity shaped the fate of Nigeria. Ethnicity brought Nigeria down because it brought massive corruption with it. We've been doing this and pretending for so long but the results are there for all eyes. Telling us to chase corruption without taking out the root, which is FG in Abuja, is nonsensical. If we cant separate let every region do their thing - that's the key. Show me any state or region that is competing now, non. They all wait for monthly allocation from the center - allocation that's riddled with corrupt and bogus figures determined by past military rulers that put their ethnicity and religion over and above national integration.

I said this in one of my posts that if there was no Abuja-FG controlled oil money there would not be Boko Haram. I don't care what their beef is with us, what I need to know is - is there a place called Abuja where people share money? if the ans is yes then people will do anything to get there, if it means using Boko Haram then so be it. After all if we cant compete on education and economy maybe we can compete on violence. And if my opinion is not clear enough then think about OPC, MEND, EGBESU, MASSOB, MOSSOP, etc. all these are products of ethnic induced corruption and fighting. No group wants to be left out in the hot pursuit for resource laden Aso rock. If we separate, regionalize, or confederate today, whatever you call it, all the above groups will die a natural death.

Guy, you are absolutely wrong. If Nigeria separates, instead of ethnic groups fighting each other, it will be the states that are fighting each other. We've already seen this happen many times where one region of one state is proclaiming they've been marginalized and its their turn to produce the governor. By the way, you are again wrong on corruption. Do you know the reason Nzeogwu and the rest claimed they organized the coup in the 60s? You guessed it, Corruption!!! You can continue to deceive yourself, but one day you will realize the truth, What we need is a comprehensive measure to fighting corruption at every level.

Genius100:

Guy, you are absolutely wrong. If Nigeria separates, instead of ethnic groups fighting each other, it will be the states that are fighting each other. We've already seen this happen many times where one region of one state is proclaiming they've been marginalized and its their turn to produce the governor. By the way, you are again wrong on corruption. Do you know the reason Nzeogwu and the rest claimed they organized the coup in the 60s? You guessed it, Corruption!!! You can continue to deceive yourself, but one day you will realize the truth, What we need is a comprehensive measure to fighting corruption at every level.

Lay down the comprehensive measure for us to see, after all what are we asking for? - Solution, you guessed it.

Mind you I'm not saying we shouldn't fight corruption - we should fight it just as we fight the root. Leaving the root amounts to nothing. Both Abuja and the states are rotten but if we let the states or regions generate and control their resources with little to gain from the center then we would have fought a good fight.

With the way we're dictated to from Abuja, one million EFCC chairmen wont do a dent on the corruption. Then again you ask what keeps Abuja afloat? You know the ans.

Even though you've repeatedly said I was wrong, you know in your heart that ethnicity shaped our fate - from state creation to resource allocation to military enrolment to quota system/federal character. If there was no ethnic induced fears and corruption why then do we have quota system? Did you listen to what Sarduana said during independence era about contracting foreigners for positions that could be filled by Nigerians? Tell me that was a hoax.

Bro, wake up and stop saying you're wrong, you're wrong. I'm right, I may not be 100% right but you sure know what I said is largely true.

Anyway, lets hear your comprehensive measure for eliminating corruption.

Sam_Ikenna:

Mind you I'm not saying we shouldn't fight corruption - we should fight it just as we fight the root. Leaving the root amounts to nothing. Both Abuja and the states are rotten but if we let the states or regions generate and control their resources with little to gain from the center then we would have fought a good fight.

With the way we're dictated to from Abuja, one million EFCC chairmen wont do a dent on the corruption. Then again you ask what keeps Abuja afloat? You know the ans.

nwannem, I knew you'd come around sooner or later. If you set aside this lazy call for breaking up the country, you'll start looking at real solutions. The bolded above has become imperative.  What we must do is to find a way to achieve a meaningful restructuring instead of beating our chests and calling for dissolution. I believe each state should control ALL the resources within its borders, provide for its own police force, and write its own constitution.  Offshore resources should remain under the control of the feds.  Finally, if you live in any state for a year or more, you should be accorded the same rights of other citizens born in that state. Can you live with this?

As Obiagu1 stated below, the status quo is not working and has become unacceptable.

@Logic Mind, you are a known silly village goat so your comments are not surprising. Read other reasonable comments on the thread and feel very ashamed.

OPC, MEND, EGBESU, MASSOB, MOSSOP

Who listed my darling OPC with a bunch of killer terrorists that have no value for human lives, Sam, is that you? Please stop mentioning OPC in the same breathe of air when you list killers. OPC is a human rights fighter, not a terrorist like MEND, MASSOB and all these other riff raff rascals.

You guys should tune in to Splash FM 105.5 for the live debate on whether the west(Yorubas) betrayed Biafra before and during the war. Get the facts straight by listening to historians debate

P.S.: Pls tune in on saturday 10/03/12 from 10AM to 11AM for the live debate between Igbo and Yoruba intellectuals. I'm working to get the tape of today's debate and post it online for public consumption. People are being seriously miseducated on the events surrounding the war and its actors here on NL

ACM10:

You guys should tune in to Splash FM 105.5 for the live debate on whether the west(Yorubas) betrayed Biafra before and during the war. Get the facts straight by listening to historians debate

P.S.: Pls tune in on saturday 10/03/12 from 10AM to 11AM for the live debate between Igbo and Yoruba intellectuals. I'm working to get the tape of today's debate and post it online for public consumption. People are being seriously miseducated on the events surrounding the war and its actors here on NL

A yoruba coward, adekunle, confessed to killing unarmed igbo civilians. Which debate again you wan have?

Katsumoto:
Ndigbo and other Easterners paid the price in blood for the actions of a few. Rather it is former Nigerian leaders such as Gowon who owe Ndigbo an apology for their inability to protect INNOCENT civilians during the pogroms before the war. Lets be fair here.

I don't think Dudu_Negro's comments, which you responded to, focused on the lives lost during the pogroms before the war. He was commenting on the civil war.

Regardless, I wholeheartedly agree with you that the relatives of those defenseless Igbos who were innocently killed during the Araba pogroms are owed an apology, at the very least, and some sort of reparations because the government of the day failed to protect them. 

By the same token, apologies and reparations are in order for the relatives of the leaders who were murdered in cold blood, and others, by the Nzeogwu Chukwuma led coup. If Igbo leaders offer their apologies to the Northerners for the action of their sons, which resulted in the killing of Sardauna and others,  the healing process would be well served.

Dudu_Negro:
As long we continue to idealize and practice a Western styled mode of governance and socio-economic principles, we will never eliminate corruption from our midst.   Thi is so because Western philosophy itself has transformed and evolved into a new world order in which the rules of capitalism is the mainstay of political civilization and advancement.   Capitalism is not ideal for any society that has a moral conscience.   Capitalism and democracy are married couple. . . . their babies are the corrupted politicians.   This is so everywhere in the world and culture where democracy and capitalism is practiced. 

So to resolve our problem we need to ask if we want democracy and capitalism or not.  If we want it, then we should get used to breeding more corruption.

Are you suggesting that because we have democracy, we should not fight to reduce corruption and get used to breeding more of it?  If so, you are being very unreasonable and should not be allowed anywhere close to decision making in government.

Dudu_Negro:
You speak as if you have a benchmark for this supposed 30%.  What successful model exist out there?  NONE!!   America is the vanguard of capitalism and democracy. . . and it is the worst corrupted nation on earth.  Their corruption is a million times worse than Nigeria's.   They don't even attempt to mitigate it. . . . .they sustain it by getting more people into debt.  When people refuse to take debt they create racket at local levels to harass and throw them in jail.  How about Europe?  Not any better!  So where is the model for a 30% reduction in corruption?  The only way to reduce corruption is to promote moral conscience. As we have seen, what is moral for Igbo may be immoral for Yoruba. . . what is moral for Yoruba may be immoral for Hausa.   So to serve self-morality, each ethnic group need to go its own way.

I disagree with the bolded above.  I believe the long term approach should include the promotion of moral conscience starting at the elementary school level.  In the short term, if we have willing leadership, we can significantly reduce corruption by enforcing our laws, and making corrupt leaders and others pay the hefty price as required by law.

BTW, which system of government would you propose for the hypothetical O'dua nation?  If its not democracy, how are you going to get rid of the capitalists among you - The Tinubus, and other billionaires?  Are you a commie?