nene1: @ dayokanu,

This is not about black men vs. black women so don't turn it into that. Please discuss the topic at hand instead of pointing fingers and playing the blame game as that never solves anything. It is just that it is much more common to see a black man with a white woman than a black woman and white man, but I do acknowledge that many successful black women do the same.

In as much as I understand your point perfectly, there are still a few bi-racial couples who have happy marriages that only end when one of the partners dies. So, let us not pin hopes of the 'emancipation' of the black man on his marrying a black woman. Of course, you will say that is not what you are preaching but it as close to it as you can probably get.

I wouldn't question anyone for marrying from another race. Although, I may question the motive depending on other factors that I may be privy to.

^^i think you're missing or ignoring her point because you're overly sensitive and defensive about the topic.

what she's saying goes beyond what you're referring to, and neither are you both on the same page as per the thread.

@ topic

i wonder why there are still black people, actually.

how do they manage to remain black despite all the centuries of concerted efforts to remove them as well as the crab barrel mentality commonly found with them.

tpia@:
@ topic

i wonder why there are still black people, actually.

how do they manage to remain black despite all the centuries of concerted efforts to remove them as well as the crab barrel mentality commonly found with them.

poor people are more likely to increase in population. They pose no threat to anyone.ex. jailbirds, ghetto trash, baby daddies and baby mommies.
successful people tend to be the ones threatened with extinction that's why they need to work hard and intentionally at keeping themselves alive. ex Jews in the past.

tpia@:
^^i think you're missing or ignoring her point because you're overly sensitive and defensive about the topic.

what she's saying goes beyond what you're referring to, and neither are you both on the same page as per the thread.

Excuse me for removing the peripherals from nene1's post and dealing with its main point: which is black people should marry within their race especially the successful ones so that they can spread the wealth within the black community and grow together as a people.

And I am saying that whilst it looks like a nice idea in theory, it is not really realistic. I would be angrier than Nene if I saw a successful black man who married a white woman just because of the colour of her skin.

However, I know that a white girl could love a black man with all her heart and if he loves her too- we shouldn't begrudge their being married on account of dilution of wealth within the black community.

@ malatunji:

Why is it not realistic? Why is it that other successful men of other races are able to overwhelmingly marry their own despite being able to marry beautiful women of other races if they wanted. They will sleep with them, but will MARRY and pass their wealth and assets to a wife and children of his own race. How about the Indian men in africa always get an Indian wife despite being surrounded by many african women. Same applies to Lebanese men. Even the few who do marry african women sometimes get a Lebanese wife eventually. A lot of them just marry african women to get connections with african families to advance their business interests. They would never let a Lebanese woman with a black man so what does that say about how they really feel about black people? Maybe they appreciate the beauty in their women more and put them FIRST. Black men think more with their member between their legs instead of their brain like other men. There are plenty of beautiful women in every race and a suessful black man can have his pick of any beautiful black woman he wants, but the truth is most black men have always had a weakness for light skinned women whether beautiful or not. White women are the lightest women and are seen as a prize to them. They are not able to see the beauty of their own women. If it was some black men here and there then your reasoning would make sense, but when it seems like a PATTERN of a black man getting a white or non-black women when he attains success, it seems to be more to it than just simply true love.

The only thing keeping some black men away from non-black women is poverty and the racism from some non-blacks who won't date a black man. For example, Arab families would not give their daughter to a black man, but if they were open to interracial relationships with blacks, they would break their neck trying to get with them. That is what is keeping some black women with partners. The truth is a people will never advance if they don't uplift their own women and children. It is no wonder why black men lag behind other races of men. They are far ahead of black men. The few black men who are able to make it reject their women and marry non-black women. I think they feel they are not as sucessful as the white man until they have his woman. I think with a white woman they can feel equal to a white man, b/c he has a white woman like a white man does. Marrying a white woman is only giving his money to white people through his white spouse.

Look at Senegal, always had a white 1st lady in a black country. What white leader will marry a black or non-white woman and install her as first lady of a white country? Black men have shown the world they are fools. How can you expect a white man to respect you when you show him you value his own woman above your own? I don't think Wade gave a damn about the message he was sending to the black women of his country and to the outside world, especially the European world when he installed a white woman as the first lady of a black african country. It is extremely rare to see a black man in a position of power or wealthy with a similarly ccomplexioned woman. If she is black, she is light skinned.

^^^

The problem I have with your points is you tend to address it to men, when evidence has shown you many successful black women doing the same.

Any successful black woman, once she gets exposed to a foreign country quickly go for the white folks

Even those that are in Nigeria like Kate Henshaw, Regina Askia still find the few white men who live in their country to marry.

So maybe your theory affects all black ppl and not just black men. Maybe the black women too think with the orifice between their legs instead of their brains like other women of other races. There are many good looking black men but these women still have a weakness for white skin and not able to see the beauty of their own men

The only thing keeping other black women would e their poor looks and inability to act appropriately in civilized climes

@Dayokanu. Regina Askia? Successful? Seriously?

charlsecy4:

You didn't have to quote the post in order to give your reply!

Exactly. That post is too lengthy to be quoted. Letz avoid that

@Nene1, you cannot dictate to black men what race of women they should marry. As for the Indians and Lebanese, you should know that many of those marriages are not happy ones and the women just tend to accept their lot because their culture demands such. They would rather be unhappy than become outcasts in their community.

Like you said, there is beauty everywhere and if a black man chooses a white beauty instead of a black one, let him be. I still feel there is a personal side to this your post.

^^you're looking at the pieces instead of the whole.

she's looking at the general overall picture and i really dont think she shouldnt be free to express her opinion.

her being black doesnt mean she has no say in issues concerning the black community.


and neither does her opinion prevent anyone from marrying or dating whoever they like.

apples and oranges is what i see here.

we cant shy away from discussing issues that are relevant to the black setting just because some feel it relates to them personally. Regardless if it does or not, the issues arent going away anytime soon.

@ maclatunji:

So a mixed marriage cannot be unahappy? That is a moot point as there is no proof that a mixed marriage is happier than a same race marriage. A mixed marriage adds more potential problems as there is less common ground between the couples.

Why does it have to be personal? Everybody in the world can see this.

Also, for the poster who was saying I am targeting the men, I did say black women do it as well, but it is far more prevalent to see a black man with a nonblack partner. It is MEN who CHASE women. It is not black women chasing white men, but there are black men chasing nonblack women. For those black successful women, how many black men at their similar level of economic success are chasing a woman of their complexion? Maybe they have no choice, but to go to white men. If you notice, usually MOST if not all of those black models and such with white men are very dark complexioned, which most black men of a similar stature would not be seen with on their arm. Let's be real. That is why I am focusing on men.

Btw, I was watching Senegal's election and happy to see their finally have their own black senegalese first lady after the previous presidents had white French wives (with one a Lebanese wife). How pathethic that a black country after so long couldn't have a woman from their own nation and people represent them. Do you think a white european president will marry a black woman or even non-white and install her as first lady of a European country? Hell to the no.

I am not saying black men cannot marry whoever they want, but I can speak what I feel. You can't help but notice this PATTERN with black men. I am just stating an observation that I and everybody with half a brain can see.

Exactly tpia. I am just stating an opinion. Whether they like to hear what I have to say or not, it is not going to have any affect on who they marry. But you know the truth hurts and people don't like to hear it. It is obvious that black men are the ONLY race of men who put other women on a pedestal above those their share the same background with.

I just found this post online, which echoed a lot of the stuff I was saying. People notice this pattern amongst black men, which is why it frequently comes up for discussion. I don't hear such things about other races of men.

This blogger tells black women to stop being so loyal to black men as many are hypoccrites. I don't completely agree with her as I don't think it should be a retaliation game as you should GENUINELY love whoever makes you happy, but I put this link as she lists many pan africanist men with white wives and points out the hypocrisy.

http://dateawhiteguy..com/2010/01/whose-zooming-who.html

@ maclatunji: Are you in a relationship with a nonblack woman or are interested on one? Maybe it is personal for YOU. I am looking at this as a WHOLE, not on an individual level as tpia said. If you happen to be in such a relationship, don't take it as a personal attack against you as I don't know you. We are all strangers on the net. I notice black men get very defensive when it comes to defending their right to be with white women or nonblack women in general. You can, no one is stopping you, but you can't control what people think. People do notice these patterns with black men and some will say it whether you like it or not.

nene1:
Also, for the poster who was saying I am targeting the men, I did say black women do it as well, but it is far more prevalent to see a black man with a nonblack partner. It is MEN who CHASE women. It is not black women chasing white men, but there are black men chasing nonblack women. For those black successful women, how many black men at their similar level of economic success are chasing a woman of their complexion? Maybe they have no choice, but to go to white men. If you notice, usually MOST if not all of those black models and such with white men are very dark complexioned, which most black men of a similar stature would not be seen with on their arm. Let's be real. That is why I am focusing on men.

You are really funny.

So when the white men come to chase those Black women, Why dont the black women think of their community and decline?

You mean Imani didnt see other succesful black men celebrities to marry, Oluchi didnt see all the succesful black men or even naija men buts its only an italian midget that she saw? , Whoopi Goldberg didnt see any of the black hollywood stars

You mean Obama couldnt get a white woman or a fair skined woman before marrying a darker complexioned woman,

I might be wrong but personally, among blacks I think women tend to be fairer than men. Even children from same parents, the girls are usually fairer, Maybe due to hygiene, maintenance or nature(maybe more melanin than men)

Read this link

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-535828/Why-men-prefer-fair-skinned-maidens-women-like-dark-handsome-strangers.html

Notice that it address people of different races and not blacks alone

dayokanu: Read this link
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-535828/Why-men-prefer-fair-skinned-maidens-women-like-dark-handsome-strangers.html
Notice that it address people of different races and not blacks alone

this is very senseless post.
women tend to be naturally only about half a shade to a shade fairer than men (ex. among siblings, the girl is usually a bit fairer)
but black men tend to prefer women 10 shades fairer than them that is usually unnatural. hence the popularity of bleaching creams among black women.

but that is not the point of this topic. This topic is talking more about the nonexistence of successful black communities in diaspora and telling us the reason why. Only a person in denial will disagree with her comment.

c.fours:


this is very senseless post.
women tend to be naturally only about half a shade to a shade fairer than men (ex. among siblings, the girl is usually a bit fairer)
but black men tend to prefer women 10 shades fairer than them that is usually unnatural. hence the popularity of bleaching creams among black women.

but that is not the point of this topic. This topic is talking more about the nonexistence of successful black communities in diaspora and telling us the reason why. Only a person in denial will disagree with her comment.

And her comment is that Black men are the reasons why there are no succeful black community in diaspora?


How lame.

The succesful black women have justifiable reasons to marry someone from other race like she stated but the succesful black men are not allowed to do that, Whenever they do, they are accused of thinking with whats between their legs.

Maybe her questions and anger should be directed at the Whoopi, Oluchis, Imanis, Regina Askias, Kate henshaws etc

dayokanu:

And her comment is that Black men are the reasons why there are no succeful black community in diaspora?


How lame.

The succesful black women have justifiable reasons to marry someone from other race like she stated but the succesful black men are not allowed to do that, Whenever they do, they are accused of thinking with whats between their legs.

Maybe her questions and anger should be directed at the Whoopi, Oluchis, Imanis, Regina Askias, Kate henshaws etc

check the statistics.
for every Imani, there are fifty Tiger Woods.
also look around you at your real life environment. most successful communities are made up of professionals and business men/women. not celebrities.

Nobody owes anybody anything, once we have this understanding we can move forward peacefully. Black men do not owe it to black women, black women are not responsible for black men. Each needs to start respecting his and her own.
The women need to stop this undeserved loyalty. Be proud of who they are, what they stand for and stop intimidating men of other race. Men that respect thier women, dont make fun of their hair, dont disrespect them, dont take pride in being bad fathers and men that actually do things for society. Than those that, as someone delightfully put it, sit at the rear end of the the totem pole.

I think once thats understood, nobody will care who black men choose to marry!

queensmith: Nobody owes anybody anything, once we have this understanding we can move forward peacefully. Black men do not owe it to black women, black women are not responsible for black men. Each needs to start respecting his and her own.
The women need to stop this undeserved loyalty. Be proud of who they are, what they stand for and stop intimidating men of other race. Men that respect thier women, dont make fun of their hair, dont disrespect them, dont take pride in being bad fathers and men that actually do things for society. Than those that, as someone delightfully put it, sit at the rear end of the the totem pole.

I think once that's understood, nobody will care who black men choose to marry!

On a strictly personal level you are correct. but we are not talking solely about the personal level. we are discussing how our personal choices affect us on the community level. a nice white guy complimenting my hair and asking me out on a date is different from the topic at hand which is more about socio-economic power and community leverage among minority ethnic groups.

ex. Asians own 90% of all businesses in black neighborhoods. most of the businesses are family enterprises. is that a surprise?

Do you think a white european president will marry a black woman or even non-white and install her as first lady of a European country?

not in this solar system.

maybe in an alternate universe.

tpia@:




not in this solar system.

maybe in an alternate universe.

I'm pretty sure this would be the response a few years ago if one should ask if it was possible to have a non-white American president!

Anything is possible.

@ Nene1

Indeed there seem to be a peculiar pattern amongst successful black Men that tends to associate them with non-black partners. A lot of successful black sportsmen and western celebrities fit the bill.

However there seem to be a similar pattern amongst our beautiful black women too. They tend to be intolerant with seeing their male counterparts with other races whilst if a black man sees a black woman with a white man, he tends to be more passive and tolerant.

I think it would take a sociologist to be able to explain or give theories why such tend to happen. I'm sure some white women tend to feel in a similar way when they see their white male with other races. Personally, I think its a human thing.

nene1: @ maclatunji:

So a mixed marriage cannot be unahappy? That is a moot point as there is no proof that a mixed marriage is happier than a same race marriage. A mixed marriage adds more potential problems as there is less common ground between the couples.

Why does it have to be personal? Everybody in the world can see this.

Also, for the poster who was saying I am targeting the men, I did say black women do it as well, but it is far more prevalent to see a black man with a nonblack partner. It is MEN who CHASE women. It is not black women chasing white men, but there are black men chasing nonblack women. For those black successful women, how many black men at their similar level of economic success are chasing a woman of their complexion? Maybe they have no choice, but to go to white men. If you notice, usually MOST if not all of those black models and such with white men are very dark complexioned, which most black men of a similar stature would not be seen with on their arm. Let's be real. That is why I am focusing on men.

Btw, I was watching Senegal's election and happy to see their finally have their own black senegalese first lady after the previous presidents had white French wives (with one a Lebanese wife). How pathethic that a black country after so long couldn't have a woman from their own nation and people represent them. Do you think a white european president will marry a black woman or even non-white and install her as first lady of a European country? Hell to the no.

I am not saying black men cannot marry whoever they want, but I can speak what I feel. You can't help but notice this PATTERN with black men. I am just stating an observation that I and everybody with half a brain can see.

Nene1, I am not here to try to rubbish you and your post but marriage is a very personal thing. I would be very offended if I married a woman of my choice and someone like you comes to tell me that I am helping to impoverish the black community because I married a woman from another race. Yes, I agree that some black men have inferiority complex and seek to prove they are 'more human' by being with a white women. But heck, it is their choice even if it is stupid. I have never seen a race of people who have developed and prospered by virtue of only marriage. Success is achieved by hardwork, focus, persistence, intelligence and of course the grace of God. Leave marriage out of the matter.

How many people did Oprah marry to achieve success in her profession and business? If we all sit down and do what is right, we can be successful and will not have to depend on marriage to "share and spread wealth".

N.B: Am I dating a white woman? No! I have an open mind when it comes to women and I don't tie myself to any race. There are qualities I seek and race is not one of them.

c.fours:


On a strictly personal level you are correct. but we are not talking solely about the personal level. we are discussing how our personal choices affect us on the community level. a nice white guy complimenting my hair and asking me out on a date is different from the topic at hand which is more about socio-economic power and community leverage among minority ethnic groups.

ex. Asians own 90% of all businesses in black neighborhoods. most of the businesses are family enterprises. is that a surprise?

I see what you mean and i still disagree, there is no such thing as black culture but i can say the asian culture is probably the most unique of all races.
Again i dont feel like the blacks as a community or a culture are owed anything ,its up to every individual to make a consious contribution to his or her society. We cannot rely on the success of others for this. A white person is not worried abt the race hir or her daughter will marry and where they will carry the wealth ,if that were the case western countries will not be u richest in the world. Being open minded in my opinion is the first step to civilisation, grasping at concepts like race culture and communities only hold you back. And thats the problem black women are having, they are reliant on men that have no respect or regards for them, they continue to give birth to men that refer to them as bitches, men fond of using abusing and abandoning their women ,i'm sorry but i cannot reconcile with any notion insinuating we owen anything to communities that drag us down. Its up to the women to sort themselves out

queensmith:


Again i dont feel like the blacks as a community or a culture are owed anything ,its up to every individual to make a consious contribution to his or her society. We cannot rely on the success of others for this.

Very much so.

A community should not be dependent on the personal decisions of a few. People generally should have the freedom to choose and decide whatever they want to do and whoever they want to be with, as long as it does not affect others negatively. Having a partner of a different race is a personal choice and should have nothing to do with the community except we are still living in the feudal era.

Personal decisions should remain what it is. Personal.

People are really downplaying the power marriage has. Why do you think many wealthy Asian, Arab and white families like to marry among their own? Marriage is where families are built and they are the foundation of any society. Blacks always share the money with others. Wealthy blacks transfer their money to nonblacks through marriage. How many black families are there that have wealth lasting through generations?

Oh and one poster said whites don't care who their children marry? Really? With the exception of poor whites, you think elite white families like the Trumps, Johnson & Johnson, Ford, Rockefeller, the Royal family n England would not bat an eye if one of their children decides to marry a black person? Seriously? They would want their children to marry another wealthy WHITE person.

My thread just confirmed what I already knew. Many black folks are in denial. Yes, personal decisions do affect your community as a whole. Oh but wait, when did black men give a damn about the black community. It is no wonder why we are bottom of the barrel people.

And instead of attacking women like Oluchi, think to yourself first. Remeber the question I asked that the black men here conveniently dodged: HOW MANY BLACK MEN ON THEIR LEVEL WOULD CHOOSE TO MARRY WOMEN OF THEIR DARK COMPLEXIONS? Maybe it is only white men that are chasing them. How many black men would want Oluchi if given the options of the lighter skinned type women. Many black men on their economic level have the option of many different women due to their wealth.

^^^

The most powerful man in the world.

Possibly the most powerful black man in history, Married a dark woman

Dont you notice Barack Obamas wife is wayyyy darker than him? Or are you saying he couldnt get fairer women to marry?

If a black man of any economic status wants to marry any woman he wants, he can. Nobody is saying he can't, but you cannot deny the implications of certain things. If a black man wants to transfer his wealth and success to foreign people who wouldn't have given a damn about him anyway were it not for his money, then he can go ahead. Just don't complain about racism from them when you are overlooking your own women to be with them.

@ the poster who said that women are generally fairer. That is a moot point. There is barely much of a difference among skin tone between men and womenof the same race. You can find many black women that are darker than some black men and vice versa. Also, women use a lot of lightening and brightening creams that men don't use. Plus, even though worldwide wide men prefer fair skin, the difference between black men and other races is that those men prefer fair skin among their OWN women and they still marry their own women and don't put others above them.

I notice that many black men cannot date a nonblack woman without getting defensive about it or without giving a reason about something being wrong with black women. That shows there is a problem. They usually don't say I am with X woman b/c I love her fot this and that. No, it is usually b/c black women are this and that. I think there would be much less opposition from black women if black men could date whoever they wanted without insulting black women. This is the difference between them and men of other races. Whether they are with a woman of their own background or not, they rarely will insult them or disrespect them. I have seen many threads on here about other women and Nigerian men cannot say why they like those women without insulting Nigerian women. Many black men seem to choose a nonblack woman out of disdain for black women instead of just choosing that woman b/c she was the one they loved regardless of her race. You cannot deny that many black men put nonblack women on a pedestal and it seen as a status symbol to have one on their arm when they reach success. To them a black woman is not deserving to be his wife, mother of his children (many do not want dark kids), and a life of comfort. They claim we are gold diggers as if other woman do not want a man who can provide a life of comfort for them. Please.

Of course there are a few EXCEPTIONS like Obama. Plus, he is not only black but biracial. He is just as much white as he is black.

nene1: People are really downplaying the power marriage has. Why do you think many wealthy Asian, Arab and white families like to marry among their own? Marriage is where families are built and they are the foundation of any society. Blacks always share the money with others. Wealthy blacks transfer their money to nonblacks through marriage. How many black families are there that have wealth lasting through generations?

Ms Nene,

It is always nice to be fair and understand that nobody owes anybody what they do with their lives, including your so-called community.

Who the next man or woman marries should concern no-one but the couples alone.


How many black families are there that have wealth lasting through generations?

It is difficult to answer your rhetorics as no data has been compiled to jugde from. However, there are rich families in all races and marry into other races and their are those who don't. The specifics are not exclusive to a particular race alone.

You can't decide what other's do with their lives.
Let me indulge you, I can as well ask you why should you choose to marry within your race alone? Aren't we all humans?

But remember, who am I to decide which race you or other black girls should marry? Should love not be the purpose of a marriage rather than transfer of wealth or skin colour?

nene1:

My thread just confirmed what I already knew. Many black folks are in denial. Yes, personal decisions do affect your community as a whole. Oh but wait, when did black men give a damn about the black community. It is no wonder why we are bottom of the barrel people.

Please do explain?

How does a personal decision to be with a certain partner affects the 'community'?

nene1:
And instead of attacking women like Oluchi, think to yourself first. Remeber the question I asked that the black men here conveniently dodged: HOW MANY BLACK MEN ON THEIR LEVEL WOULD CHOOSE TO MARRY WOMEN OF THEIR DARK COMPLEXIONS? Maybe it is only white men that are chasing them. How many black men would want Oluchi if given the options of the lighter skinned type women. Many black men on their economic level have the option of many different women due to their wealth.

I'd marry anybody that shares a common interest with me and we make ourselves both happy, be it black, white, latino, chinese or even alien sef.

Most important is the couple's happiness!

not the complexion.


One more thing, a happy and stable home is the bedrock of a good community.