davidylan:

I dont understant. Is this a deliberate attempt to remain stup[i]i[/i]d for allah? Two simple examples - the malaria parasite, plasmodium falciparum (that is a FACT by the way), is transmitted by mosquitoes in their saliva. . . while house flies typically transmit disease by carrying pathogens on hairy legs (this is one other means by which plant pollination occurs).
Flies carrying disease on their wings? That is an islamic myth.



I actually beg to differ about this generally held nonsense. Most flies dont develop disease (despite carrying human disease-causing pathogens) because of the huge genetic difference. For example, a mosquito does not develop malaria - is it because of antibiotics? NO! Plasmodium falciparum attacks red blood cells that are required to drive oxygen delivery to your tissues. A mosquito does not require this and thus is immune to the effects of the pathogen.

The only proof of this fly antibiotic wetdream for muslims comes from a presentation by a certain "Joan Clark" from Australia in 2002. Why is this alleged finding not more widely proven in microbiology labs all over the world?



this makes no sense whatsoever. Have you ever worked in a science lab?
Artemisin is the most powerful anti-malarial medication known to man and it is extracted from the Artemisia plant by crushing and extracting with Hexane. Why dont doctors ask you to grow the plant and just dip it in water that you can drink anytime you are sick? These guys are just a bunch of morons.



huh? Cholera. . . just one example of a disease spread by eating food contaminated by pathogen-bearing flies. Why didnt the "antibiotic" on the opposing wing prevent you from catching the disease? Ode.

When next a mosquito bites you, just catch it, dunk it in your hot tea and drink. Dont take drugs please. The same stupid sheikhs who trumpet the mohammedan nonsense are the first to queue up at Walter Reed hospital here when they get sick while their fooolish followers are busy catching flies to dunk in their water.

Oh ! i never knew i have hurt somebody this much!! i will ignore all the insults but let me just give you a brief summary;
The hadith let us know that the same fly that carries various diseases also carries the antidotes(this was in the 7th century). Later in the 21st century, modern scientists confirmed the hadith by letting us know that the fly is able to survive all the pathogens on it because it also carries the antibiotics against the diseases.
As for all other parts of the hadith, it remains mere words of mouth if there is no prove against it from a scientific experiment.
And the mosquitoes pranks you are playing is unnecessary, may be you got me wrong because I've being saying "fly" instead of "house fly".
I know the motives behind your emotional post, I'm not interested in arguing in circles with you.

seguun:
Oh ! i never knew i have hurted somebody this much!!

It's "hurt" not "hurted" dude.

seguun:
The hadith let us know that the same fly that carries various diseases also carries the antidotes(this was in the 7th century). Later in the 21st century, modern scientists confirmed the hadith by letting us know that the fly is able to survive all the pathogens on it because it also carries the antibiotics against the diseases.

This is blatantly untrue. The mosquito doesnt die of malaria because it does not possess red blood cells which is the primary cell attacked by the pathogen in question. Nothing to do with antibiotics here. We cannot continue to condone the use of false arguments and pseudo-science to defend the vapidity of the hadiths.

seguun:
As for all other parts of the hadith, it remains mere words of mouth if there is no prove against it from a scientific experiment.
And the mosquitoes pranks you are playing is unnecessary, may be you got me wrong because I've being saying "fly" instead of "house fly".
I know the motives behind your emotional post, I'm not interested in arguing in circles with you.

Dumb really. the mosquito is essentially a "flying insect". But let me humor you and use the house fly . . . what is the antibiotic it uses to avoid infection by the typhoid fever bacteria?

davidylan:

It's "hurt" not "hurted" dude.



This is blatantly untrue. The mosquito doesnt die of malaria because it does not possess red blood cells which is the primary cell attacked by the pathogen in question. Nothing to do with antibiotics here. We cannot continue to condone the use of false arguments and pseudo-science to defend the vapidity of the hadiths.



Dumb really. the mosquito is essentially a "flying insect". But let me humor you and use the house fly . . . what is the antibiotic it uses to avoid infection by the typhoid fever bacteria?

You are only trying to hold on to a straw by attacking my english. I neither claimed to be an english professor nor do i claim english language to be my mother tongue, i am nothing but a full-blooded western nigerian nigger. A nigger attacking a nigger for speaking bad english only makes the attacker still, a captive (mentally) of his former master (the white man).
You keep on twisting the subject from fly (house fly) to mosquito while i keep wondering when i ever made mention of mosquitoes. Does the hadith talk about mosquitoes? NO, was the research based on mosquitoes? NO. I'm sure you know the difference between a house fly and a blood-sucking mosquitoes, you don't want me to point that to you do you?.So, i assume FRUSTRATION is the only reason for this unusual twisting of the argument.
Go ask the scientists what the antibiotics found on flies is, the fact is that flies carry antibiotics and this is the confirmation of the hadith.

seguun:
You are only trying to hold on to a straw by attacking my english. I neither claimed to be an english professor nor do i claim english language to be my mother tongue, i am nothing but a full-blooded western nigerian nigger. A nigger attacking a nigger for speaking bad english only makes the attacker still, a captive (mentally) of his former master (the white man).

I pointed it out in a single largely inconsequential sentence . . . you seem to be building a mountain off a molehill to hide your own vapidity.

seguun:
You keep on twisting the subject from fly (house fly) to mosquito while i keep wondering when i ever made mention of mosquitoes. Does the hadith talk about mosquitoes? NO, was the research based on mosquitoes? NO. I'm sure you know the difference between a house fly and a blood-sucking mosquitoes, you don't want me to point that to you do you?

1. this is quite daft because in the same post i used an example specific to the housefly. Why did you ignore that?

2. You do know that the term "fly" is NOT reserved for houseflies alone and that mosquitoes are a type of fly right? Are you aware that the term "fly" simply refers to any flight insect (order diptera) possessing a pair of wings from the metathorax?

Did allah forget?

seguun:
.So, i assume FRUSTRATION is the only reason for this unusual twisting of the argument.
Go ask the scientists what the antibiotics found on flies is, the fact is that flies carry antibiotics and this is the confirmation of the hadith.

and the proof of this is where? Why cant you specifically reference the paper here rather than hiding behind the fig leaf of amorphous "scientists"?

davidylan:

I pointed it out in a single largely inconsequential sentence . . . you seem to be building a mountain off a molehill to hide your own vapidity.



1. this is quite daft because in the same post i used an example specific to the housefly. Why did you ignore that?

2. You do know that the term "fly" is NOT reserved for houseflies alone and that mosquitoes are a type of fly right? Are you aware that the term "fly" simply refers to any flight insect (order diptera) possessing a pair of wings from the metathorax?

Did allah forget?



and the proof of this is where? Why cant you specifically reference the paper here rather than hiding behind the fig leaf of amorphous "scientists"?

Firstly, I understand the term fly is not reserved for the house fly, though most people understand "fly" to mean the "house fly" as any other fly is called by its specific name e.g mosquito, butter fly, locust etc. However, I don't want to further any argument with you on this, this is the hadith that clarifies it ; Narrated Abu Huraira:
The Prophet said "If a HOUSE FLY
falls in the drink of anyone of
you, he should dip it (in the
drink), for one of its wings has
a disease and the other has
the cure for the disease."
Sahih Al-Bukhari: Volume 4,
Book 54, Number 537
This is also the fact that proves the presence of antibiotics on the fly (house fly);
The surface of flies is the last
place you would expect to find
antibiotics, yet that is exactly
where a team of Australian
researchers is concentrating
their efforts.
Working on the theory that
flies must have remarkable
antimicrobial defences to
survive rotting dung, meat
and fruit, the team at the
Department of Biological
Sciences, Macquarie
University, set out to identify
those antibacterial properties
manifesting at different
stages of a fly's development.
"Our research is a small part
of a global research effort for
new antibiotics, but we are
looking where we believe no-
one has looked before," said
Ms Joanne Clarke, who
presented the group's findings
at the Australian Society for
Microbiology Conference in
Melbourne this week. The
project is part of her PhD
thesis.
The scientists tested four
different species of fly: a
house fly, a sheep blowfly, a
vinegar fruit fly and the
control, a Queensland fruit fly
which lays its eggs in fresh
fruit. These larvae do not need
as much antibacterial
compound because they do
not come into contact with as
much bacteria.
Flies go through the life
stages of larvae and pupae
before becoming adults. In the
pupae stage, the fly is
encased in a protective casing
and does not feed. "We
predicted they would not
produce many antibiotics,"
said Ms Clarke.
They did not. However the
larvae all showed antibacterial
properties (except that of the
Queensland fruit fly control).
As did all the adult fly species,
including the Queensland fruit
fly (which at this point
requires antibacterial
protection because it has
contact with other flies and is
mobile).
Such properties were present
on the fly surface in all four
species, although antibacterial
properties occur in the gut as
well. "You find activity in both
places," said Ms Clarke.
"The reason we concentrated
on the surface is because it is
a simpler extraction."
The antibiotic material is
extracted by drowning the
flies in ethanol, then running
the mixture through a filter to
obtain the crude extract.
When this was placed in a
solution with various bacteria
including E.coli, Golden Staph,
Candida (a yeast) and a
common hospital pathogen,
antibiotic action was observed
every time.
"We are now trying to identify
the specific antibacterial
compounds," said Ms Clarke.
Ultimately these will be
chemically synthesised.
Because the compounds are
not from bacteria, any genes
conferring resistance to them
may not be as easily
transferred into pathogens. It
is hoped this new form of
antibiotics will have a longer
effective therapeutic life.
http://abc.gov.au/science/
articles/2002/10/01/689400.
htm

Mr Seguun,
which scientific journal did Ms Clarke publish her findings? Surely its been 8 yrs now. . . at what point do you realise that quoting an ABC.news website does not count as serious science?

davidylan: Mr Seguun,
which scientific journal did Ms Clarke publish her findings? Surely its been 8 yrs now. . . at what point do you realise that quoting an ABC.news website does not count as serious science?

Why can't you simply state any scientific fact that proves her wrong so that the argument is put to rest.

seguun:
Why can't you simply state any scientific fact that proves her wrong so that the argument is put to rest.

Silly really. If she is right then her "facts" would be published in a recognized peer-review journal not as a footnote on Abc.news. That is the way science works.
I cant state "scientific facts" to prove her wrong because what we have presently is a news quote and not scientific fact. Scientific facts are published in journals not on the pages of Sunday Times.

Now where is the published finding? where is her DATA to support this claim?

A complete way of life which is balanced and leaves no part of humanity out of it. Need i say more?

@seguun, assalam alaykum, i really appreciate your explanations on the issue of the hadith of the housefly, may Allah reward you. Indeed if the hadith was from the prophet, then i am rest assured of its correctness.

@mazaje and david, it amuses me your illogical aproach towards this issue, but should i be surprised?
What do you know about extraction of desired product without contamination? What do you know about lab procedures in the extraction of chemicals found in plant and animal? What do you know about antibiotics? The microbes that produce them, their pathways and why they are called secondary metabolites? What do you know about their solubility in water and other solvent? I can go on and on but please always try to be objective with your points.
This is an ongoing research which is yet to be concluded, but a very good point which can be derived is, there is a cure in the housefly that carries disease, which can be related (in a more general view) to the hadith of the prophet. Why not let us relax grab a cup of green tea and let the scientist do their job.

sino: A complete way of life which is balanced and leaves no part of humanity out of it. Need i say more?
@mazaje and david, it amuses me your illogical aproach towards this issue, but should i be surprised?
What do you know about extraction of desired product without contamination?

Stup[i]i[/i]d question . . . organic solvents like dimethylcyclohexanone is used to extract penicillin from the penicillium FUNGI before being precipitated out of solution in pure form. Shouldnt you be more worried about the contamination that occurs when the wing carrying disease falls into your tea?

sino:
What do you know about lab procedures in the extraction of chemicals found in plant and animal?

Quite a lot considering i do this fairly routinely. the question rather should be what do YOU know? Ever been in a real lab before?

sino:
What do you know about antibiotics? The microbes that produce them, their pathways and why they are called secondary metabolites? What do you know about their solubility in water and other solvent? I can go on and on but please always try to be objective with your points.

the above are a senseless stream of irrelevancies. What has the above to do with a fly falling into your tea?

sino:
This is an ongoing research which is yet to be concluded

Its been 8 yrs. . . why hasnt this "research" been published anywhere besides ABCnews webpages and islamic websites?

sino:
but a very good point which can be derived is, there is a cure in the housefly that carries disease, which can be related (in a more general view) to the hadith of the prophet. Why not let us relax grab a cup of green tea and let the scientist do their job.

this is quite daft. The housefly is associated with diseases like cholera, typhoid and dysentry . . . why is the cure for every single one of those found everywhere BUT in the fly? Next time you have typhoid, i dare you to dunk a few flies in your tea and hope for the best afterall the prophet must be right no? Disgusting hypocrites.

^^^ now i conclude, in the most respectful manner that you lack proper understanding of basic protocols in science. You talk about dimethycyclohexanone to extract penicillin, so? does it mean that penicillin cannot become soluble with other solvent partially or completely? I'll keep on asking you questions for you to understand how silly your point of view is. Its common practice in the lab to have an ethanolic extract or water extract etc. Depending on what you are targetting and the procedure you choose. Reasons basically being ease of extraction, and the elimination of contamination in any form.
Maybe you didnt get my point, and thank you for telling me you work in a lab which makes me wonder what you really do there. first thing you should know is that water is a universal solvent (high school chemistry), your argument about the report using ethanol for extraction therefore means dipping the fly in anyother drink wouldnt release the antibiotics makes no sense cos the antibiotic we are talking about might be insoluble in ethanol itself. There are different antibiotics and their solubility differs, so until a report shows that the extracted antibiotic cannot be soluble in any other media except for ethanol then you should shhh. Remember the antibiotics is situated on the surface of the fly!
My points are daft to you cos you are full of hate and do not want to acknowledge a simple fact which is, there is a cure in the fly. To help you better understand why it is possible that dipping the fly in your drink can realy prevent the harmful effect of the disieases carried by the housefly, antibiotics majorly work to destroy microbes and these microbes are the cause of the diseases. Antibiotics attack pathogenic microbes at different levels from their structure down to inhibition of their nucleic acid synthesis. And sir, the hadith didnt say, when you are down with cholera or thyphoid, go dip afly in your tea and drink.

sino: A complete way of life which is balanced and leaves no part of humanity out of it. Need i say more?

@seguun, assalam alaykum, i really appreciate your explanations on the issue of the hadith of the housefly, may Allah reward you. Indeed if the hadith was from the prophet, then i am rest assured of its correctness.

@mazaje and david, it amuses me your illogical aproach towards this issue, but should i be surprised?
What do you know about extraction of desired product without contamination? What do you know about lab procedures in the extraction of chemicals found in plant and animal? What do you know about antibiotics? The microbes that produce them, their pathways and why they are called secondary metabolites? What do you know about their solubility in water and other solvent? I can go on and on but please always try to be objective with your points.
This is an ongoing research which is yet to be concluded, but a very good point which can be derived is, there is a cure in the housefly that carries disease, which can be related (in a more general view) to the hadith of the prophet. Why not let us relax grab a cup of green tea and let the scientist do their job.

Surely islam is the total way of life that leaves nothing unsolved(logically)!
Wa alaikum salam warahmatullah my brother! May Allah reward you greatly for the brilliant answer you've given him above.

sino: ^^^ now i conclude, in the most respectful manner that you lack proper understanding of basic protocols in science.

While trying to be as modest as possible, i have to say this is absolute nonsense. I've been working as a bench scientist for 7 yrs with over 10 published papers. You on the other hand?

sino:
You talk about dimethycyclohexanone to extract penicillin, so? does it mean that penicillin cannot become soluble with other solvent partially or completely?

Dumb. What exactly where you trying to convey here? What is the salient point? The key here is that DMCH is merely ONE in a list of organic solvents that is used to extract penicillin. Just the same way you require an organic solvent like ethanol or perhaps hexane to extract any alleged antibiotic on house flies. See dumbo, you cant extract penicillin from penicillium fungi by dissolving in water... so obviously allah was lying through his teeth when he claimed dunking a fly in your tea is a way to get its antidote effect to disease.

sino:
I'll keep on asking you questions for you to understand how silly your point of view is. Its common practice in the lab to have an ethanolic extract or water extract etc. Depending on what you are targetting and the procedure you choose. Reasons basically being ease of extraction, and the elimination of contamination in any form.

First of all, i get disgusted when folks try TOO HARD to prove that they are knowledgeable when in actual fact they really sound very stupid.

1. You CANNOT use water to extract an antibiotic from a fly... its just plain IMPOSSIBLE no matter how many times you say it. Lets not pretend to be dealing with hypotheticals here, we know what we are targetting (extraction of an alleged antibiotic from a housefly wing) so we can throw out the nonsense that water can be used. You NEED an organic solvent.
2. It is NOT common practice in the lab to have ethanolic or water extractions... perhaps you're refering to your poor excuses for labs that you have in nigeria. In my lab here i use mostly acetone, 2-butanone, dimethyl sulfoxide, PEG... so what is your point?

sino:
Maybe you didnt get my point, and thank you for telling me you work in a lab which makes me wonder what you really do there.

I run my own lab dumbo. anything else you want to say?

sino:
first thing you should know is that water is a universal solvent (high school chemistry), your argument about the report using ethanol for extraction therefore means dipping the fly in anyother drink wouldnt release the antibiotics makes no sense cos the antibiotic we are talking about might be insoluble in ethanol itself.

Daft. Seriously pathetic nonsense.

1. Lets perform a simple high school experiment - try using water as a solvent for your typical anionic surfactant like sodium dodecyl sulfate. See how that works for your idea of water as a "universal solvent". Surely it should dissolve no?

2. So because the antibiotic in question (if it ever existed at all) is insoluble in ethanol means it MUST needs be soluble in water? Crazy.

3. Penicillin is a very common antibiotic isolated from the penicillium fungi... do you mean to say we could have solved our problem by merely soaking the fungi in our tea? Crazy!

sino:
There are different antibiotics and their solubility differs, so until a report shows that the extracted antibiotic cannot be soluble in any other media except for ethanol then you should shhh. Remember the antibiotics is situated on the surface of the fly!

This guy is a hilarious joke. So because the antibiotic is allegedly located on the "surface" of the fly it must needs be soluble in water? Ok small experiment, squalene is a key ingredient of the sebum produced by your skin... is it soluble in water too? Please tell us quick, we have been wasting so much money on acetone, not knowing we could have done this by using freely available tap water. Wow good thing i met professor Sino.

sino:
My points are daft to you cos you are full of hate and do not want to acknowledge a simple fact which is, there is a cure in the fly.

1. there is no "fact" here. What we have here is a claim found only on ABCnews and islamic websites. Its been 8 yrs ago, why hasnt this "basic fact" been published in a peer-reviewed SCIENTIFIC journal for all to see?

2. What is the name of the antibiotic found in the fly? where can we find it to buy? What exactly does it cure?

sino:
To help you better understand why it is possible that dipping the fly in your drink can realy prevent the harmful effect of the disieases carried by the housefly, antibiotics majorly work to destroy microbes and these microbes are the cause of the diseases. Antibiotics attack pathogenic microbes at different levels from their structure down to inhibition of their nucleic acid synthesis.

Incoherent nonsense. The issue here isnt what antibiotics do BUT whether any exist on the wings of the fly like allah falsely claims. We already know what antibiotics do, but if indeed allah's claims are true... by YOUR OWN VERY WORDS here then we should expect that the antibiotics shld neutralize the microbes BEFORE they cause disease in humans right?

sino:
And sir, the hadith didnt say, when you are down with cholera or thyphoid, go dip afly in your tea and drink.

Why not? The hadith is very clear - "If a housefly falls into the drink of anyone of you, he should immerse it completely in the liquid, then remove it, for one of its wings has the disease and the other has the cure." (Sahih Bukhari, 3320)
Since the only way to get cholera is exposure to houseflies carrying the disease then you shld just get another fly, immerse it completely in your hot tea, drink and wait to get well no? Bunch of delusional hypocrites.

I see muslims would rather take western medication than follow allah's claims... even they know they cannot depend on such vapid nonsense. Hadith ko, padith ni.

error

davidylan:

While trying to be as modest as possible, i have to say this is absolute nonsense. I've been working as a bench scientist for 7 yrs with over 10 published papers. You on the other hand?

Congratulations dr david, i am really happy for you.7yrs and you dont know that water can be usedfor extraction too?

davidylan:

Dumb. What exactly where you trying to convey here? What is the salient point? The key here is that DMCH is merely ONE in a list of organic solvents that is used to extract penicillin. Just the same way you require an organic solvent like ethanol or perhaps hexane to extract any alleged antibiotic on house flies. See dumbo, you cant extract penicillin from penicillium fungi by dissolving in water... so obviously allah was lying through his teeth when he claimed dunking a fly in your tea is a way to get its antidote effect to disease.

Calling me dumb makes you feel super, good for you.Thanks for asking since you didnt get my point, dmch is a solvent used to extract penicillin, it doesnt suggest that penicillin can only be extracted by it and thus soluble in it alone. some antibiotics are very soluble in water, so if they are already manifested on the surface of the fly, then what are the chances of it mixing with the liquid? i'll rather say that the penicillium can produce penicillin if the condition is favorable in the liquid it finds itself. You know that industrial production of these antibiotics is majorly by fermentation before issolation and purification.

davidylan:

First of all, i get disgusted when folks try TOO HARD to prove that they are knowledgeable when in actual fact they really sound very stupid.

1. You CANNOT use water to extract an antibiotic from a fly... its just plain IMPOSSIBLE no matter how many times you say it. Lets not pretend to be dealing with hypotheticals here, we know what we are targetting (extraction of an alleged antibiotic from a housefly wing) so we can throw out the nonsense that water can be used. You NEED an organic solvent.
2. It is NOT common practice in the lab to have ethanolic or water extractions... perhaps you're refering to your poor excuses for labs that you have in nigeria. In my lab here i use mostly acetone, 2-butanone, dimethyl sulfoxide, PEG... so what is your point?

Chairman, i am not trying to prove knowledgeable here, i dont care what you think, i justbring my own opinion. It might be faulty and stem from my experience in my poor excuses for lab here in naija but hey i believe one day we'll get there.
1. I am not dissputing the use of organic solvent to extract the antibiotics for research purposes
2. Well you know i am still in the 19th century labs so i still use water for extraction of metabolites in plants so as to identify,isolate,purify and characterize them. Majorly it is used for comparison especially when the extract is intended for life samples. I was speaking generally on extraction of metabolites, not specifically on antibiotics.
My point is that extraction can be by water too.

I run my own lab dumbo. anything else you want to say?

davidylan:

Daft. Seriously pathetic nonsense.

1. Lets perform a simple high school experiment - try using water as a solvent for your typical anionic surfactant like sodium dodecyl sulfate. See how that works for your idea of water as a "universal solvent". Surely it should dissolve no?

2. So because the antibiotic in question (if it ever existed at all) is insoluble in ethanol means it MUST needs be soluble in water? Crazy.

3. Penicillin is a very common antibiotic isolated from the penicillium fungi... do you mean to say we could have solved our problem by merely soaking the fungi in our tea? Crazy!

1. Mr man, do youeven have a clue why it was regarded as such? Even back in the days i know that garri is insoluble in water.

2. Sir, you need to relax. I said the antibiotic found "might" not be soluble in ethanol. I never said that is a reason for it to be soluble in water. For i know that the ethanol will be evaporated and the residue will then be used for further Analysis. A good reason for using these organic solvents is their low Bpt.
3. Ans above.

davidylan:

This guy is a hilarious joke. So because the antibiotic is allegedly located on the "surface" of the fly it must needs be soluble in water? Ok small experiment, squalene is a key ingredient of the sebum produced by your skin... is it soluble in water too? Please tell us quick, we have been wasting so much money on acetone, not knowing we could have done this by using freely available tap water. Wow good thing i met professor Sino.

Nope, the type of antibiotics found determines its solubility, if it is soluble in water, then it will easily mix with it. Simple as abc.

davidylan:

1. there is no "fact" here. What we have here is a claim found only on ABCnews and islamic websites. Its been 8 yrs ago, why hasnt this "basic fact" been published in a peer-reviewed SCIENTIFIC journal for all to see?

2. What is the name of the antibiotic found in the fly? where can we find it to buy? What exactly does it cure?

Well, i cant help you here, a link was provided and the namesand institution was also provided. It is an ongoing research maybe you can help by carrying out in your world class lab

davidylan:

Incoherent nonsense. The issue here isnt what antibiotics do BUT whether any exist on the wings of the fly like allah falsely claims. We already know what antibiotics do, but if indeed allah's claims are true... by YOUR OWN VERY WORDS here then we should expect that the antibiotics shld neutralize the microbes BEFORE they cause disease in humans right?

Since you know what they do, why ask me again?

davidylan:

Why not? The hadith is very clear - "If a housefly falls into the drink of anyone of you, he should immerse it completely in the liquid, then remove it, for one of its wings has the disease and the other has the cure." (Sahih Bukhari, 3320)
Since the only way to get cholera is exposure to houseflies carrying the disease then you shld just get another fly, immerse it completely in your hot tea, drink and wait to get well no? Bunch of delusional hypocrites.

Say whatever, you still dont get my point, so i leave you with your delussions. Well there is no report of the companions or the prophet drinking fly tea to cure any disease, so why should i?

Sino, learn to quote first.

Secondly, you shld realise that scientists arent complete idiots...

davidylan: Sino, learn to quote first.

Secondly, you shld realise that scientists arent complete idiots...

my previous post was skewed cos i was tryingout a method on my phone.

Science makes the impossible possible and explainable, i see possibilities that is inherent in a strand of information, call me names, scientist of old were tagged with so many. Scientist who think impossible, never achieved anything . . .

davidylan:


1. You CANNOT use water to extract an antibiotic from a fly... its just plain IMPOSSIBLE no matter how many times you say it. Lets not pretend to be dealing with hypotheticals here, we know what we are targetting (extraction of an alleged antibiotic from a housefly wing) .

Mr davidylan, stop getting this
issue twisted either deliberately or
not. The hadith was not talking
about how antibiotics can be
extracted from a fly. The scientists
only needed to extract the
antibiotics specificaly to study it
hence, they chose to use ethanol.
Whether only ethanol can be used
to extract antibiotics from a fly or
not is left for the scientists as this
is not the concern of the hadith.
The main concern here in relation
to the hadith is, will there be the
presence of antibiotics in the liquid
(say water) a fly is dipped into? If
you say no, could you please state
a scientific fact to back your claim?

seguun:
Surely islam is the total way of life that leaves nothing unsolved(logically)!
Wa alaikum salam warahmatullah my brother! May Allah reward you greatly for the brilliant answer you've given him above.

Amin brother, jazakumullah khayran.

seguun:
Mr davidylan, stop getting this
issue twisted either deliberately or
not. The hadith was not talking
about how antibiotics can be
extracted from a fly. The scientists
only needed to extract the
antibiotics specificaly to study it
hence, they chose to use ethanol.
Whether only ethanol can be used
to extract antibiotics from a fly or
not is left for the scientists as this
is not the concern of the hadith.
The main concern here in relation
to the hadith is, will there be the
presence of antibiotics in the liquid
(say water) a fly is dipped into? If
you say no, could you please state
a scientific fact to back your claim?

He is indeed good at twisting words, and arriving at spurious conclusions.
Even when extracting with ethanol, you need to dip or submerge the fly in it, then the ethanol is evaporated.
Industrial processes also use liquids containing nutrients to grow microrganism which produces these antibiotics via a process called fermentation, the antibiotics,microbes and liquid are all in the same tank mixed together before the isolation and purification, the antibiotics do no loose their conformation within this mixture.

Davidylan has ended this argument. . .This research is just one of those inconclusive researches that has no definite conclusion or wrong conclusion. There are many researches like that all over the place that are either wrong or inconclusive because the hypothesis itself is wrong. . . .The research has NOT been published in ANY scientific journal of repute, its been eight years now and still nothing substantial has been put forth to substantiate the researchers claims from any where. If antibiotics exist on the surface of flies then you guys should tell us the NAME of the antibiotic and where we can BUY it as davidylan had rightly stated. . .Until you do that, the myth that flies carry diseases on one of their wings and a cure on the other wing should be laid to rest here. . .

mazaje: Davidylan has ended this argument. . .This research is just one of those inconclusive researches that has no definite conclusion or wrong conclusion. There are many researches like that all over the place that are either wrong or inconclusive because the hypothesis itself is wrong. . . .The research has NOT been published in ANY scientific journal of repute, its been eight years now and still nothing substantial has been put forth to substantiate the researchers claims from any where. If antibiotics exist on the surface of flies then you guys should tell us the NAME of the antibiotic and where we can BUY it as davidylan had rightly stated. . .Until you do that, the myth that flies carry diseases on one of their wings and a cure on the other wing should be laid to rest here. . .

This is simply illogical...there are many researches that take even longer time before they were concluded and you never find them here and there on the journals until they are concluded.
May be you missed where the report says the research was presented at the Australian society for microbiology conference in Melbourne; "Our research is a small part
of a global research effort for
new antibiotics, but we are
looking where we believe no-
one has looked before," said
Ms Joanne Clarke, who
presented the group's findings
at the Australian Society for
Microbiology Conference in
Melbourne this week. The
project is part of her PhD
thesis."
http://abc.gov.au/science/
articles/2002/10/01/689400.
htm. The only logical reason you cannot find anywhere this research is debunked around the world is that IT IS NOT WRONG, if this research is wrong she would have come out her self to clarify the issue and apologise to the public or better still, other scientists would have proved her wrong with facts considering many scientists from different parts of the globe were present at the conference. If I may ask you two simple questions; how do you think the fly PROTECTS itself from all the bacteria it carries?, do you think the fly can SURVIVE all the bacteria it carries if it has no defence against it?
Now listen to your self, so you expect the antibiotics on which research is still going on to have been named and made available in the markets? This is mostly ABSURD!

mazaje:

I din't see you make any sensible contribution there. . .

. . . comming from a man that almost lost his head over the thread one should not bne surprise, coping technique is simply deny the event never happened poor deluded slave of godlessness. . . tehehehe

mazaje:
Hitting you head and reaping thing some myth or superstitious belief will not make me accept it. . .Evidence to show that those that claim this elusive guidence of Allah are better than those that do not is what?. . .

evidently you have a hard time comprehending English . . .

mazaje:
Firstly, I am yet to see any historical account of this claim of yours, secondly if that assertion is true then replaced it with war and strife, killing of infidels, killing of apostates, beheading of criminals, amputation of thieves, stoning to death for adultery etc. . .Which are also all based on the superstitious belief in Islam. . .

firstly your ignorance is yours alone to explain not mine, secondly the rubbish you wrote has no bearing on the first point


[quote author=mazaje]
And this can be found in which islamic society. . .

The arab society Muhammad met was changed from class discrimination to equality for all . . .

mazaje:
Really, Syria, Iraq, Somalia, Sudan, Palestine(hams and fatah) Yemen to list a few arab are not in serious strife?. . .Islam has not ended any strife in the Arab world since the arab world today remains one of the most violent regions of the world. . . .

Again he shows us the coconut part of his brain which cannot understand simple English, On the advent Islam the strife arab fought on the basis of clannish setiments came to an abrupt end . . .

mazaje:
I was replying your post. . .

Evidently your coconut brain response was not replying any of the point written or in the words of the Judiciary was incompetent to disprove the defence point . . .

mazaje:
OK. . . .

. . .another indication of replying without thinking . . .

mazaje:
The actual benefit of fasting to the human body remains a controversy, while some doctors point to its advantages others have listed or pointed to its disadvantages. . . .Prayer gives a sense of peace and tranquility?. . .And the evidence for that is what?. . .That is why I asked you to provide the evidence that shows muslims that pray have more peace and tranquility than non muslims that do not pray. . .

which other doctors are you talking about? or did you mean Dr. Mazaje evidence for tranquility of prayer, keep asking . . . do you even have a drop of common sense left in your coconut brain? Cause even retardeen would know my point are not based on comparisms, rather very clearly stated that Muslims that pray experienced peace and tranquility in time of trouble, your retarded questions leaves one wondering whether you at all read . . .

mazaje:
Atheist that do not pray also feel peace and trnaqulity. . . .

how does this question relate to what I wrote? We see common sense remains a victim in your war against reason . . .

mazaje:
Islam attacks racism, so? Every religion attacks racism so what exactly are you on about here?. . .

So you scarce sense cannot tell you a creed that that is totally against racism is of no benefit to mankind . . . and other religion attack racism? . . . asking so shows that you are in a war against reason . . .

mazaje:
Coming from the same fool that berated Seun for saying that nairaland is a product of atheism. . .Is the car the product of christianity?. . .What about orange. cos I saw your man listing coffe as a product of islamic contribution to science. . .So christian inventions are a contribution of christianity right?. . .You are a senseless joke. . . grin grin. . .

Coming from a derelict Imbe*cil one wouldn't be surprised! Who is the Fool a man (Mazaje) that specifically asked what Inventions have Muslims made and when shown now claims that such inventions should not be attributed to Islam or man (Veda) that shows Mazaje his inconsistency? I think wisdom leaves us to label Mazaje the FOOL, remember you were the same individual who tried giving atheism credit for what it never produced then turned around (showing his confused mind) say we cannot ask what atheism have contributed . . . I leave your conscience to question you on what is really wrong with you . . . I suspect the drying out of your coconut brain!
So much to say, again in personal hygine Islam promoted clean and healthy living amongst its adherents, take for example using the conveince, muslims are required to wash off impurities from their bodies this we know elements filthiness which are a bases for diseases.

mazaje:
Is islam the only religion that calls for clean and healthy living amongst its adherents?. . .Remember the OP asked for contributions that are uniquely islamic. .

deluded slave of godlessness when would you be truthful? or no apologises for dishonesty . . .

mazaje: Davidylan has ended this argument. . .This research is just one of those inconclusive researches that has no definite conclusion or wrong conclusion. There are many researches like that all over the place that are either wrong or inconclusive because the hypothesis itself is wrong. . . .The research has NOT been published in ANY scientific journal of repute, its been eight years now and still nothing substantial has been put forth to substantiate the researchers claims from any where. If antibiotics exist on the surface of flies then you guys should tell us the NAME of the antibiotic and where we can BUY it as davidylan had rightly stated. . .Until you do that, the myth that flies carry diseases on one of their wings and a cure on the other wing should be laid to rest here. . .

I do not know whether you leaRNT VOODOO acience but common sensse also demands that you provide evidence that there is a research that proves flies do not contain antibiotic, asking where you can buy it seems strange for even your level of intellect . . .