afam4eva:

Definitely every big city has these problems. Lagos has actually been given retributions to cushion these negative externalities like you call it.

Tell me the problem New york has ?

alj harem:

Tell me the problem New york has ?

The same problems.

afam4eva:

Lagos, despite having the smallest land mass in the federation gets one of the highest federal allocation even ahead of some NDDC states.

That is because of the population, we (Nigerians) are 18 million in Lagos and will be 25 million in 3 years time. The state deserves it! I still remember passing through marina after working hours, you can literally be floating on the human tsunami!

afam4eva:

technically or indirectly it does. You see how we've been shouting about second Niger bridge, international airport status and the dredging of river niger for years yet nothing has happened.

Bros Afam, it does not. For how long, afam?! For how long are we going to have this mentality?! Even OBJ, if memory serves me right, did not repair the road that connects Lagos to Ogun (can't remember the name of the road). After 3 years, we shall see what GEJ has done for us.

Time is the most precious valuable, if we want change, it is now! As I said, MOST NIGERIANS, want a Fashola, Amechi, Chime, Rochas. Even the so-called "North". Who no like better thing?

alj harem:

Maybe because IT HAS THE HIGHEST POPULATION CATERING FOR PEOPLE IN NDDC STATES ??

If they give the NDDC STATE THE HIGHEST MONEY WHICH THEY DO, WHO WOULD CATER FOR NDDC PEOPLE NOT IN NDDC STATE / CARE TO ANSWER ?

Lagos caters for NDDC states? Dude, what are you smoking? Do you just like arguments for the heck?

afam4eva:

Lagos, despite having the smallest land mass in the federation gets one of the highest federal allocation even ahead of some NDDC states. Not to talk of the preferential treatment given to Lagos ahead of some other states for just being Lagos.

I don't like subjective debates. You need to debate with facts and not what may be.

Let me give a small analogy

A man who has 4 kids is approached by another man with 12 kids. The man with 12 kids says I will give you $10 per child believeing that should cover each child's education, health, food, clothing. But he doesn't state when he will be back to collect the kids. Now suppose that 3 of those kids are perpetually sick kids, 3 are rogues who constantly have to be locked, while 4 are promiscous and subsequently have kids of their own.

The man with the kids cannot argue that the $120 he gave the other man is enough without first determining how long he has left his kids with the other man and without calculating the cost of feeding the new kids, frequent visits to the hospital, police station, etc. This holds even if 2 of the kids are genuises.

Don't talk about what money Lagos gets from the federal government without first calculating the negative externalities. We know what Lagos gets from the government, what we don't know are the other costs to Lagos.

alj harem:

Tell me the problem New york has ?

Alhaji, you are funny o. How can you be asking someone who just managed to find a way to escape to America about New York? You think I am kidding? See: https://www.nairaland.com/908838/11-yr-old-boy-arrested-robbery#10544359.

Now, it is evident that people like iTribalistAfam4Ever have no clue what they are even talking about and have only seen the 4 walls of their backwater waterloo. . .LOL. I hope it is not just a visiting or student visa he plans to use to "MOVE" to America because he is desperate to escape from Nigeria or wherever he has helped to destroy. He is mad at Lagos, they get more money, have you any clue of the GDP of New York alone? Well, my advise is leave your racism with DEdeloser and IAMONLYLies, Illogical warped mind and loserACM10 otherwise, the many guns on the streets of America will send you to where you belong!

Katsumoto:

I don't like subjective debates. You need to debate with facts and not what may be.

Let me give a small analogy

A man who has 4 kids is approached by another man with 12 kids. The man with 12 kids says I will give you $10 per child believeing that should cover each child's education, health, food, clothing. But he doesn't state when he will be back to collect the kids. Now suppose that 3 of those kids are perpetually sick kids, 3 are rogues who constantly have to be locked, while 4 are promiscous and subsequently have kids of their own.

The man with the kids cannot argue that the $120 he gave the other man is enough without first determining how long he has left his kids with the other man and without calculating the cost of feeding the new kids, frequent visits to the hospital, police station, etc. This holds even if 2 of the kids are genuises.

Don't talk about what money Lagos gets from the federal government without first calculating the negative externalities. We know what Lagos gets from the government, what we don't know are the other costs to Lagos.

We talk as if Lagos feeds it's 18 million population. Take Fashola for example, most of his projects have been capital and not people oriented projects like free medicare, pipe borne water etc. Even if they were, it's very few people that will benefit from such projects. People in lagos just like in Nigeria virtually provide themselves with the water they drink, the power they use and just about everything that's supposed to be the perogative of the government. What Lagos is doing may not be necessarily more than what Delta or Imo state is doing simply because of population gap.

Sam_Ikenna:

Nwanne when will you lay off Igbo? Lagos belongs to SW, end of the story - whoever contests that is either blind or something else. If you're not Yoruba but you live in Lagos, you're a tenant, pure and simple.

Now, Alj Harem, its time to lay off my people.

Leave the Kanuri man to keep drooling all over NL, Lagos belongs to all tribes, anybody can be a landlord via legal acquisition of property (ies). Every landlord in Lagos has a substantial stake in the affairs of Lagos state. After all Tinubu a non Lagosian is lording it over them so gini big deal?

Lagos na our own, who no like am make e go hang.

Katsumoto:

Haka nai is right in that some Igbo folks are on a revenge mission; you can't pretend not to have read posts from Onlylies, Dede1, Chino, etc who talk about settling scores, etc.

Although you are mostly mature in your outlook, responding to negative remarks/comments in a negative manner isn't mature. You have spent some time on this forum to know who to respond to. Responding to posters who are only for making incendiary comments is a waste of time. There will always be those, from every tribe, who are looking to forment trouble.

Another problem with your post is the comment about what Nigeria did to you. Remember that for every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction. You can't talk about what Nigeria did to you without talking about what some Igbos did to other Nigerians. It doesn't quite work in that way you are alluding to. Evereyone in Nigeria has wronged every other person in Nigeria; everyone is innocent and guilty at the same time.

Don't worry, my 'region' was not insulted.

This is just what I don't quite understand. Were the Jan 15 coup plotters acting on behalf of Igbos or on behalf on Nigeria? Did they view themselves and conducts as advancing Igbo cause? Or were they simply trying to clean the Nigerian augean stable at that time with perhaps a naïve sort of action? Clarifying this will perhaps help one appreciate what exactly Igbos did to Nigerians?

all these people giving one excuse or the other why igbo cannot produce president will wake up one day to pick up the pieces of a disintegrated nigeria.

re@lchange:
all these people giving one excuse or the other why igbo cannot produce president will wake up one day to pick up the pieces of a disintegrated nigeria.

those saying Igbos cannot produce the president are just pulling your legs. If Igbos want to go for it they should. Today GEJ is the president so why can't Igbo ?

PointB:

This is just what I don't quite understand. Were the Jan 15 coup plotters acting on behalf of Igbos or on behalf on Nigeria? Did they view themselves and conducts as advancing Igbo cause? Or were they simply trying to clean the Nigerian augean stable at that time with perhaps a naïve sort of action? Clarifying this will perhaps help one appreciate what exactly Igbos did to Nigerians?

Are you for real? You want it broken down again?

Care to explain the coup?

Katsumoto:

Are you for real? You want it broken down again?

Capt.Barbosa:
Care to explain the coup?

Let me help Katsumoto out:

Katsumoto:

At the end of the day, each man must analyse the facts and reach a conclusion. I welcome the facts presented by Max, Nowa Omoigui, Ademoyega, Gbulie, and other historians. However, I must reach a conclusion for myself based on the facts. The facts include motive and execution of the coup.

FACTS

Motive
The constitutional conference of January 1965 in which Zik was told the extent of his powers by the military service chiefs after Zik called the Army to intervene following his stand-off with Balewa

Facts
1. Zik was absent from Nigeria when the coup took place saying that he needed to rest. His personal physician abandoned him in the Caribbean. More worryingly, Zik preferred to be on holiday while Nigeria hosted for the first time, the Commonwealth Prime Minister's conference
2. The composition of the victims - mainly Northerners and Westerners
3. The composition of the plotters - overwhelmingly Igbo
4. The opportunist attitude of Igbo politicians after the coup failed. NCNC members wanted Mbadiwe to take over as Prime Minister despite the fact that NCNC was the junior partner in the coalition with NPC. With the rejection of Mbadiwe by NPC, rightly stating that there nominated Dip Charima, should take over as PM. With no progress in the deadlock, Nwafor Orizu preferred to hand over to Ironsi on the instructions of Zik who was on 'holiday'.
5. Nzeogwu's interview with Dennis Ejindu where Nzeogwu stated that the execution of the coup in the South was tribalistic

http://maxsiollun./2008/02/20/interview-with-major-nzeogwu/

6. After murdering Balewa and some of his colleagues, Ifeajuna proceeded to have a meeting with the premier of the East, Michael Okpara, in Enugu before escaping to Ghana.
7. Captain Nwobosi stated that Zik was tipped-off by Ifeajuna. But how did Nwobosi know whether Zik was part of the plan if Ifeajuna concocted the plan and Nwobosi himself was recruited two or three days before the coup? See Oil, politics and violence: Nigeria's military coup culture (1966-1976) By Max Siollun
8. Ironsi's inability to court-martial the plotters.

Allegation
It was alleged that Zik was Ifeajuna by Ajuluchukwu (Zik's NCNC chieftain)

The evidence is overwhelming in my view

You may find the posts here interesting.

Katsumoto:

Are you for real? You want it broken down again?

Did the Jan 15 coup plotter explicitly declare they were acting on behalf of Igbo ethnic group or Nigeria?

ndu_chucks:

Let me help Katsumoto out:


.

The key argument is that submission was that the coup failed and opportunistic Nigerian politicians hijacked the impasse!

PointB:

Did the Jan 15 coup plotter explicitly declare they were acting on behalf of Igbo ethnic group or Nigeria?

Lets look at some events after the coup. Even though, Ironsi was allegedly not part of the coup, some of his actions/inactions led many to believe there was an Igbo agenda. If there was no agenda, all Ironsi had to do was handover power to the NPC nominated prime minister.

1. Appointments

Chief of Staff (Supreme Headquarters) – Ogundipe (West)
Chief of Army (Staff) – Gowon (North)
Chief of Staff (NAF),Lt. Col.George Kurubo (East, non-Igbo)
Commanding Officer, 2 Bde, Lt. Col. H. Njoku (East, Igbo)
Commanding Officer, 2 Bn, Major H. Igboba (Midwest, Igbo)
Commanding Officer, Abeokuta Garrison, Major G. Okonweze (Midwest, Igbo)
Commanding Officer, 4 Bn, Major Nzefili (Midwest, Igbo) -Rejected by Northern troops and replaced by Joe Akahan
Commanding Officer, Federal Guards, Major Ochei (Midwest, Igbo)
Commanding Officer, 1 Bn, Major D. Ogunewe (East, Igbo)
Commanding Officer, 1 Bde, Lt. ColW. Bassey (East, non-Igbo)
Commanding Officer, 3 Bn, Major Okoro (East, Igbo)
Commanding Officer, Depot, Major F. Akagha (East, Igbo)
Commanding Officer, 5 Bn,Major M. Shuwa (North)

2. After the Police completed its interrogation, the January coup suspects were transported to different prisons in the South but mainly in the East

3. A court-martial panel was nominated, headed by Lt. Colonel Conrad Nwawo (Nzeogwu’s friend and the man responsible for negotiating Nzeogwu’s surrender). Yet every time this panel was to sit, directives came from Supreme headquarters to postpone

4. The deaths of the victims in January, apart from Balewa, were not announced until after Ironsi was overthrown, leaving room for rumours and innuendos.

5. Ironsi’s advisory team comprised Francis Nwokedi, Pius Okigbo, and Lt. Colonel Patrick Anwunah

6. Ironsi made Nwokedi the sole commissioner forthe establishment of an administrative machinery for a unified Nigeria

7. Ironsi abolished the compulsory Hausa test for civil service positions in the North, meaning that non-Hausa speaking people could take positions in the North.

8. Ironsi promulgated decree 34 which divided Nigeria into 35 provinces and made all civil servants part of a unified civil service despite being advised not to do so by Katsina, Gowon, Bassey, and Kam Salem. The day after the promulgation of decree 34, Lt. Col.Ojukwu publicly announced in Enugu that on the basis of seniority, Igbo civil servants would be transferred to other regions and Lagos.

9. The Drummermagazine June publication contained two provocative articles; “Why Nigeria Exploded” by Nelson Ottah which allegedly derided northern leaders,and “Sir Ahmadu rose in his shrouds and spoke from the dead” by Coz Idapo, which allegedly featured a cartoon in which the reverred late Premier was asking for forgiveness from Idapo. These articles were blamed for the May 1966 riot in some Northern cities which led to approximately 600 Igbo deaths

10. Offensive photographs showing Major Nzeogwu standing on the late Sardauna of Sokoto were said to be distributed in the open including market places.Some Igbos were even alleged to have worn stickers to that effect and were eager, in conversations with northerners, to point to Nzeogwu saying ‘Shi ne maganin ku”, meaning “he is the one who can knock sense into you”.Grammophone records with machine gun sounds were released, to remind Northerners, it is said, of the bullets that felled their leaders in January. If this wasn’t true, why did General Ironsi issue orders that anyone displaying provocative pictures or singing offensive songs would be arrested for incitement and would face 3 months imprisonment or 50 pounds fine or both (Decree 40)?

11. An Army company was deployed to Sokoto as a permanent garrison allegedly under an Igbo Major.

12. Shehu Shagari was detained and questioned for three days in Lagos about questions over NPC funds. The houses of other NPC chieftains were also searched. What about NCNC officers? Were they not in government as well?

13. Eleven (11) Majors were promoted substantive Lt. Cols while fourteen (14) Majors were made temporary Lt. Cols.Of these, 19 were Igbo or Igbo speaking easterners and midwesterners, 5 northerners (Katsina, Akahan, Shuwa, Muhammed, Haruna) and one Yoruba (Olutoye). These promotions happened even though there was a moratorium on promotions in the military.

14. In his biography titled“Power with Civility” by Oleka and Ofondu (Neskon 1998), Rear Admiral Ndubuisi Kanu, an Igbo easterner who later fought in the Biafran Navy, states:“That Igbos, including soldiers in the barracks, teased their Northern counterparts about what they regarded as swapping of fortune, served to fray tempers.It was not long before Northerners vented their spleen on their Igbo guests. An orgy of killing of Igbos throughout all nooks and crannies of the Northern Region kicked off.”In his book, “Revolution in Nigeria, Another View” late General Garba describes how his soldiers in the Federal Guard broke down in tears in Jankara market in Lagos when they heard the album “Machine Gun” .General Danjuma (rtd) says even the wives of Igbo soldiers were taunting the wives of Northern soldiers.

15. In an interview back in the early eighties with Radio Kaduna, then Brigadier (later Major General) Mamman Vatsa, now deceased, is quoted by Elaigwu as saying:
“The July coup was motivated by the actions in January 1966 whereby an illegal action was legitimized.If you do that, you expect a counter reaction. July 29, 1966 was a reaction to an inaction against an illegal action….Right from the beginning, the GOC, Nigerian Army regarded these people as ‘rebels’.If that was accepted, the immediate thing was to take the necessary action to get them disciplined legally. If this was not done, then the GOC was condoning indiscipline or treason.Rather than punish men from his army who were on mutiny, he was now asking the civilian government to hand over to him before he could maintain discipline in an organization of which he was in charge….In the first instance, he shouldn’t even have taken over the power……”

PointB:

The key argument is that submission was that the coup failed and opportunistic Nigerian politicians hijacked the impasse!

Which politicians are you referring to? Please be very clear.

Yes the coup was foiled, why didn't Ironsi handover to the NPC nominated candidate? Why did Nwafor Orizu prefer to hand over to Ironsi after speaking with Zik?

^^^
You still have not shown me where the main actors claimed the were acting out an Igbo agenda. Like I said the coup failed and opportunistic politicians reacted perhaps naively.

The ethnicising of the Jan 15 coup was done simply to pave the way for the counter coup. Nzeogwu and co had altruistic motive, their failure unfortunately created the room for this misrepresentation of their intention.

'Failure indeed is an orphan.'

PointB: ^^^
You still have not shown me where the main actors claimed the were acting out an Igbo agenda. Like I said the coup failed and opportunistic politicians reacted perhaps naively.

The ethnicising of the Jan 15 coup was done simply to pave the way for the counter coup. Nzeogwu and co had altruistic motive, their failure unfortunately created the room for this misrepresentation of their intention.

'Failure indeed is an orphan.'

Stop being disingenuous; you were expecting them to confess acting an Igbo agenda, even when they were being shielded by Ironsi. Besides they were intelligent enough to know the ramifications of accepting there was an agenda.

Nzeogwu and Ifeajuna had different motives. I suspect many Igbo sons are aware of this and thats why they claim it is Nzeogwu's coup. Even though Nzeogwu was recruited 3-4 months before the execution while Ifeajuna, Okafor, and Oji had been planning the coup since 64.

I am still waiting for you to name the opportunistic politicians.

Nobody ethnicized the coup after the coup; the actions of Ifeajuna did all that. Please take the time to read opposing arguments instead of just relying on subjective arguments.

I have provided reasons for my position; please provide your reasons and stop offering only opinions.

Katsumoto:

Lets look at some events after the coup. Even though, Ironsi was allegedly not part of the coup, some of his actions/inactions led many to believe there was an Igbo agenda. If there was no agenda, all Ironsi had to do was handover power to the NPC nominated prime minister.

1. Appointments

Chief of Staff (Supreme Headquarters) – Ogundipe (West)
Chief of Army (Staff) – Gowon (North)
Chief of Staff (NAF),Lt. Col.George Kurubo (East, non-Igbo)
Commanding Officer, 2 Bde, Lt. Col. H. Njoku (East, Igbo)
Commanding Officer, 2 Bn, Major H. Igboba (Midwest, Igbo)
Commanding Officer, Abeokuta Garrison, Major G. Okonweze (Midwest, Igbo)
Commanding Officer, 4 Bn, Major Nzefili (Midwest, Igbo) -Rejected by Northern troops and replaced by Joe Akahan
Commanding Officer, Federal Guards, Major Ochei (Midwest, Igbo)
Commanding Officer, 1 Bn, Major D. Ogunewe (East, Igbo)
Commanding Officer, 1 Bde, Lt. ColW. Bassey (East, non-Igbo)
Commanding Officer, 3 Bn, Major Okoro (East, Igbo)
Commanding Officer, Depot, Major F. Akagha (East, Igbo)
Commanding Officer, 5 Bn,Major M. Shuwa (North)

2. After the Police completed its interrogation, the January coup suspects were transported to different prisons in the South but mainly in the East

3. A court-martial panel was nominated, headed by Lt. Colonel Conrad Nwawo (Nzeogwu’s friend and the man responsible for negotiating Nzeogwu’s surrender). Yet every time this panel was to sit, directives came from Supreme headquarters to postpone

4. The deaths of the victims in January, apart from Balewa, were not announced until after Ironsi was overthrown, leaving room for rumours and innuendos.

5. Ironsi’s advisory team comprised Francis Nwokedi, Pius Okigbo, and Lt. Colonel Patrick Anwunah

6. Ironsi made Nwokedi the sole commissioner forthe establishment of an administrative machinery for a unified Nigeria

7. Ironsi abolished the compulsory Hausa test for civil service positions in the North, meaning that non-Hausa speaking people could take positions in the North.

8. Ironsi promulgated decree 34 which divided Nigeria into 35 provinces and made all civil servants part of a unified civil service despite being advised not to do so by Katsina, Gowon, Bassey, and Kam Salem. The day after the promulgation of decree 34, Lt. Col.Ojukwu publicly announced in Enugu that on the basis of seniority, Igbo civil servants would be transferred to other regions and Lagos.

9. The Drummermagazine June publication contained two provocative articles; “Why Nigeria Exploded” by Nelson Ottah which allegedly derided northern leaders,and “Sir Ahmadu rose in his shrouds and spoke from the dead” by Coz Idapo, which allegedly featured a cartoon in which the reverred late Premier was asking for forgiveness from Idapo. These articles were blamed for the May 1966 riot in some Northern cities which led to approximately 600 Igbo deaths

10. Offensive photographs showing Major Nzeogwu standing on the late Sardauna of Sokoto were said to be distributed in the open including market places.Some Igbos were even alleged to have worn stickers to that effect and were eager, in conversations with northerners, to point to Nzeogwu saying ‘Shi ne maganin ku”, meaning “he is the one who can knock sense into you”.Grammophone records with machine gun sounds were released, to remind Northerners, it is said, of the bullets that felled their leaders in January. If this wasn’t true, why did General Ironsi issue orders that anyone displaying provocative pictures or singing offensive songs would be arrested for incitement and would face 3 months imprisonment or 50 pounds fine or both (Decree 40)?

11. An Army company was deployed to Sokoto as a permanent garrison allegedly under an Igbo Major.

12. Shehu Shagari was detained and questioned for three days in Lagos about questions over NPC funds. The houses of other NPC chieftains were also searched. What about NCNC officers? Were they not in government as well?

13. Eleven (11) Majors were promoted substantive Lt. Cols while fourteen (14) Majors were made temporary Lt. Cols.Of these, 19 were Igbo or Igbo speaking easterners and midwesterners, 5 northerners (Katsina, Akahan, Shuwa, Muhammed, Haruna) and one Yoruba (Olutoye). These promotions happened even though there was a moratorium on promotions in the military.

14. In his biography titled“Power with Civility” by Oleka and Ofondu (Neskon 1998), Rear Admiral Ndubuisi Kanu, an Igbo easterner who later fought in the Biafran Navy, states:“That Igbos, including soldiers in the barracks, teased their Northern counterparts about what they regarded as swapping of fortune, served to fray tempers.It was not long before Northerners vented their spleen on their Igbo guests. An orgy of killing of Igbos throughout all nooks and crannies of the Northern Region kicked off.”In his book, “Revolution in Nigeria, Another View” late General Garba describes how his soldiers in the Federal Guard broke down in tears in Jankara market in Lagos when they heard the album “Machine Gun” .General Danjuma (rtd) says even the wives of Igbo soldiers were taunting the wives of Northern soldiers.

15. In an interview back in the early eighties with Radio Kaduna, then Brigadier (later Major General) Mamman Vatsa, now deceased, is quoted by Elaigwu as saying:
“The July coup was motivated by the actions in January 1966 whereby an illegal action was legitimized.If you do that, you expect a counter reaction. July 29, 1966 was a reaction to an inaction against an illegal action….Right from the beginning, the GOC, Nigerian Army regarded these people as ‘rebels’.If that was accepted, the immediate thing was to take the necessary action to get them disciplined legally. If this was not done, then the GOC was condoning indiscipline or treason.Rather than punish men from his army who were on mutiny, he was now asking the civilian government to hand over to him before he could maintain discipline in an organization of which he was in charge….In the first instance, he shouldn’t even have taken over the power……”

What you brought up here is a one-sided story, better put, your story. He said this, he said that, picture this, picture that - where is the picture of Nzeogwu standing on Bello's body? "They dont have it but they're sure it exists." They'll tell you how Igbo women printed shirts showing Bello's body and taunted northern people bla bla. All these are stories, dont act like we dont know how colonial masters and their stooges twisted stories in the African continent during the 60s.

In fact show me any African country where the colonial master supported the right group? They only supported the group that will deliver the new independent nation back to them, I guess its only in Nigeria that we turn logic upside down to suit our conspiracy or hate. Its only in Nigeria that people who live in the desert are more than people who enjoy the forests, oceans, rivers, savanahs etc.

Anyway, the point is - Igbo did not plan coup, those who acted acted on their own. The reason all these conspiracy bull is coming out is just to paint Igbo black so they can justify the massive carnage they wrecked on us. Thank God we're alive today to stare in the face of the murderers. If they must know, we have 4given them but what we will not do is to 4get how we were made scapegoats, how our friends and foes teamed up with FG and Britain to kill millions of my kinsmen simply because oil was in the east and "queen" Eliza wasn't gonna leave it in the hands of "uppity" Igbos.



I have long stopped listening to Nigerian justification for their ignominy, for all I care, they can knock themselves out with it. During the war all newspapers in Nigeria said Ojukwu was "the devil." They said Nigeria would be "paradise" as soon as they get rid of Ojukwu or win the war. Well, 42 years after the war we now know why they were hungry for blood. They got the oil and forced my people back but Nigeria never recovered.

Today, we have new lords and they're speaking in bombs not in words. We dont even know the name of the church they're likely to attack during this easter break. We're begging them to stop attacking us - thats the paradise for which FG killed 3 million to have.

Time to go to bed.

^ Katsumoto shows up to deliver precise history lessons from multiple sources! Good job bro!

Unfortunately, most people will only see what is in their minds regardless of hard evidence to the contrary. Haka_Nai nailed it good. Most sections of Nigeria will easily gravitate towards a patriotic leader and people who demonstrate the passion for nation building, not revenge, not settling scores (which is totally impossible anyway), not sectional or tribal. While it is very hard to get a "perfect" person with all the glowing requisites of leadership, the constant fights on NL from our fellow Nigerians who talk only of secession (who will elect a leader to plunge a country into another war), revenge, settling of scores, under-developing everywhere else to develop a particular region, emptily boast on how he is better than everyone else, claims he is 90% of every part of the population in states in Nigeria, etc will be impossible to build the rapport to elect a president.

While there are mild and level headed posters (e.g. Ikenna), the rhetoric of 99% of SE will perpetually make it impossible for the North or West to trust it. So, how will a president emerge except Goodlloku selects an SE for president and does not get greedy, controverting his earlier postulations of not seeking a second term? Remember the guy usurped their party's so called gentleman's agreement and if he said zoning is dead, all well and good, how can it now be alive again when he leaves the position? Making change is one at a time and when most Igbos begin to seek common good of Nigeria, they will begin to earn that trust. Otherwise, how can you want to break up the place, cause a war, killing millions of people, claim you are invincible in battle, look down on your hosts in the West (who spare no time to demonstrate they are well ahead of the game), the North (who despite all your abuse own significant assets in the oil fields, masters of diplomacy and quite united), threaten to take the lands of Port Harcourt, and other minorities and YET think any of these people will sit back until you create another BIG problem we will be grappling with for another 100 years?

Lets stop talking about the civil war

CyberG: ^ Katsumoto shows up to deliver precise history lessons from multiple sources! Good job bro!

Unfortunately, most people will only see what is in their minds regardless of hard evidence to the contrary. Haka_Nai nailed it good. Most sections of Nigeria will easily gravitate towards a patriotic leader and people who demonstrate the passion for nation building, not revenge, not settling scores (which is totally impossible anyway), not sectional or tribal. While it is very hard to get a "perfect" person with all the glowing requisites of leadership, the constant fights on NL from our fellow Nigerians who talk only of secession (who will elect a leader to plunge a country into another war), revenge, settling of scores, under-developing everywhere else to develop a particular region, emptily boast on how he is better than everyone else, claims he is 90% of every part of the population in states in Nigeria, etc will be impossible to build the rapport to elect a president.

While there are mild and level headed posters (e.g. Ikenna), the rhetoric of 99% of SE will perpetually make it impossible for the North or West to trust it. So, how will a president emerge except Goodlloku selects an SE for president and does not get greedy, controverting his earlier postulations of not seeking a second term? Remember the guy usurped their party's so called gentleman's agreement and if he said zoning is dead, all well and good, how can it now be alive again when he leaves the position? Making change is one at a time and when most Igbos begin to seek common good of Nigeria, they will begin to earn that trust. Otherwise, how can you want to break up the place, cause a war, killing millions of people, claim you are invincible in battle, look down on your hosts in the West (who spare no time to demonstrate they are well ahead of the game), the North (who despite all your abuse own significant assets in the oil fields, masters of diplomacy and quite united), threaten to take the lands of Port Harcourt, and other minorities and YET think any of these people will sit back until you create another BIG problem we will be grappling with for another 100 years?

The authenticity of the 'facts' in your post carries the same questionable quality of that of those whom you listed. There are many things in your post that hint of hidden malice and it seems that you continue to overlook the accomplishments of the Igbo people. Your post isn't balanced with a dual perspective. Rather you chose to produce a 'one sided' perspective, and in doing so, truncated the equally important perspective of the Igbo people.

lol @ this level of idiocy by revisionists and their sidekicks.

PointB:

[size=14pt]Did the Jan 15 coup plotter explicitly declare they were acting on behalf of Igbo ethnic group or Nigeria? [/size]

Katsumoto:

Stop being disingenuous; you were expecting them to confess acting an Igbo agenda, even when they were being shielded by Ironsi.

Blah. . . more blah and more conjecturial crap

PointB: ^^^
[size=14pt]You still have not shown me where the main actors claimed the were acting out an Igbo agenda.[/size] Like I said the coup failed and opportunistic politicians reacted perhaps naively.

The ethnicising of the Jan 15 coup was done simply to pave the way for the counter coup. Nzeogwu and co had altruistic motive, their failure unfortunately created the room for this misrepresentation of their intention.

'Failure indeed is an orphan.'

ndu_chucks:

Let me help Katsumoto out: blah... more blah and more idiotic blah!

PointB:

[size=14pt]Did the Jan 15 coup plotter explicitly declare they were acting on behalf of Igbo ethnic group or Nigeria? [/size]

katsumoto and his sidekick ndu_chucks flees the scene!

I honestly don't think it serves any purpose to engage in discusions concerning the January 1966 coup. It does not solve anything and teaches only little (because I personally believe that the plotters should have known better to attempt such in Nigeria) As far as I'm concerned, they were very careless and irresponsible set of young men.
Their action smacks of share idiocy. I don't think they understood what they were trying to confront. If they did, there is no way a character like Ironsi would have survived that coup. Heck they should have started killing from Ironsi and any Igbo that would have stood in their way. Basically I still see some Igbo with such idealistic mindset here on Nairaland, and I get very furious at them because I know they don't have the slightest clue of what Nigeria is.
So, I say please umu Igbo, let us start to ignore discusing that coup. It only makes some people think they are smart when they are just idiotic cowards who have no history of ever confronting any situation in Nigeria.
Let's focus on the future -2015, and beyond. How do we plan our future in Nigeria or our exit from Nigeria? These are the only relevant questions.

Sam_Ikenna:

What you brought up here is a one-sided story, better put, your story. He said this, he said that, picture this, picture that - where is the picture of Nzeogwu standing on Bello's body? "They dont have it but they're sure it exists." They'll tell you how Igbo women printed shirts showing Bello's body and taunted northern people bla bla. All these are stories, dont act like we dont know how colonial masters and their stooges twisted stories in the African continent during the 60s.

In fact show me any African country where the colonial master supported the right group? They only supported the group that will deliver the new independent nation back to them, I guess its only in Nigeria that we turn logic upside down to suit our conspiracy or hate. Its only in Nigeria that people who live in the desert are more than people who enjoy the forests, oceans, rivers, savanahs etc.

Anyway, the point is - Igbo did not plan coup, those who acted acted on their own. The reason all these conspiracy bull is coming out is just to paint Igbo black so they can justify the massive carnage they wrecked on us. Thank God we're alive today to stare in the face of the murderers. If they must know, we have 4given them but what we will not do is to 4get how we were made scapegoats, how our friends and foes teamed up with FG and Britain to kill millions of my kinsmen simply because oil was in the east and "queen" Eliza wasn't gonna leave it in the hands of "uppity" Igbos.



I have long stopped listening to Nigerian justification for their ignominy, for all I care, they can knock themselves out with it. During the war all newspapers in Nigeria said Ojukwu was "the devil." They said Nigeria would be "paradise" as soon as they get rid of Ojukwu or win the war. Well, 42 years after the war we now know why they were hungry for blood. They got the oil and forced my people back but Nigeria never recovered.

Today, we have new lords and they're speaking in bombs not in words. We dont even know the name of the church they're likely to attack during this easter break. We're begging them to stop attacking us - thats the paradise for which FG killed 3 million to have.

Time to go to bed.

Yes it is one sided story; I am telling it based on what I read. Why not tell your own story which counters mine? For instance, you can tell us that 19 of the 25 officers promoted by Ironsi (even with a moratorium in place) were not Igbo from mid-west and East. You can tell us that Ironsi did not promulgate Decree 34 and banned Hausa as the testing language in the North. Tell us that Ojukwu did not announce that the East would 'EXPORT' civil servants to other parts of Nigeria; the same Ojukwu that would later insist on going back to conferedationism at Aburi, only a few months after expecting to export Igbo civil servants. Tell us that Ironsi's advisory team was not made up solely of Igbo men.

So which group is the right group if we all know that the western region was in opposition while the Eastern and Northern regions were in partnership? I want you to consider something today. On NL, you often have some Igbo accusing others of betrayal but they will not even consider the Igbo betrayal of the NPC as betrayal. Whatever the coupists accused the Northern politicians of being guilty of, the Eastern politicians were equally guilty of. How do you explain the murder of the the Northern and Western premiers while Okpara (Eastern premier) hosted Ifeajuna to a tea party afterwards. How was it that Okotie-eboh from the mid-west and NCNC stalwart was murdered while Dennis Osadebay, also from the same NCNC and the premier of the mid-west wasn't targeted? Shouldn't the plotters have targeted both NPC and NCNC politicians?

How was it that Ifeajuna was able to fish Largema out of a hotel (temporary accommodation in a large hotel) while Ironsi who lived in a small house (by comparison) managed to escape? Couldn't Okafor and Ifeajuna get to Ironsi while he was in bed just like they got to Pam, Ademulegun, Shodeinde, etc. Shouldn't they have started at the top and worked their way down? What was the point of going after Largema (whose unit was in Ibadan and was only in Lagos for a party) when the GOC of the Army was close by? Ironsi was in the same vicinity as Maimalari, Balewa, and Largema.

How is it Zik was holidaying in the Caribbean, claiming to be ill, while Nigeria was hosting the prime minister's conference for the first time? Zik was so ill that his physician, Dr Idehen, got tired, ran out of money, and returned to Nigeria leaving a 'very ill patient' in the Caribbean?

The problem I have with some Igbo guys is that they love to play the part of victims but as soon as you present the facts, they accuse you of being a revisionist or bigot. If you don't start ish, there won't be ish. Simples

Katsumoto i like your grasp of history and the reasoning.For me the greatest problem we all have is never learning.The black people just can't learn and like to live as a family or village of the past.We fail to live as a nation or a continent.A slight difference is all it takes for people to become ethnocentric.Look at our skins.Whether we like it not,we have so many things together and in common.I once took a good look at President GEJ's picture wearing a Northern outfit,He looked so northern and can say he passed for one.Flipping that wear makes him an Ijaw man.So i have come to accept that in us alot is one.We create the path to our destruction and difference.We also make the reasons and take the action.
My final take,can an Igbo lead Nigeria-yes,do they have leaders worth leading Nigerians-yes and can they do it-i don't know.Some say it's the Igbo man being individualistic.I think that is not totally true.It is more of the bad marketing strategy for a Nigerian leader of Igbo extract!You know the leader maybe Igbo, but to other non-igbo Nigerian first.The mentality of having a leader because you deserve it is not an excuse.The mentality that Igbo is better than others or populate than others is not true either.The mentality that using the minority only is a sure buy and antagonizing the others is also not a good move.
You should start off where you left off.The meetings you had under the zoning.It's a good starting point.Some Igbos did stand with politicians from the pro-zoning days.This same Igbo politicians can go back to this same people and ask for a favor atleast they stood with them at there times of need.Its a good turn deserve another.Then let the Igbos suggest credible/acceptable candidates.I remember sometime back, the Igbos will say no don't give Alex Ekeweme is a nationalist and is not pro-Igbo.He is Igbo and if only you were behind him you would have your first civilian president since and Nigeria would have had her Nigerian Leader!!Some Igbos will prefer candidates that are so ethnocentric that its obvious others will resent them.Look for an Igbo nationalist and forget this Igbo president Ideology.We need a Nigerian president first and you can offer us that from your community if any.

haka_nai: Katsumoto i like your grasp of history and the reasoning.For me the greatest problem we all have is never learning.The black people just can't learn and like to live as a family or village of the past.We fail to live as a nation or a continent.A slight difference is all it takes for people to become ethnocentric.Look at our skins.Whether we like it not,we have so many things together and in common.I once took a good look at President GEJ's picture wearing a Northern outfit,He looked so northern and can say he passed for one.Flipping that wear makes him an Ijaw man.So i have come to accept that in us alot is one.We create the path to our destruction and difference.We also make the reasons and take the action.
My final take,can an Igbo lead Nigeria-yes,do they have leaders worth leading Nigerians-yes and can they do it-i don't know.Some say it's the Igbo man being individualistic.I think that is not totally true.It is more of the bad marketing strategy for a Nigerian leader of Igbo extract!You know the leader maybe Igbo, but to other non-igbo Nigerian first.The mentality of having a leader because you deserve it is not an excuse.The mentality that Igbo is better than others or populate than others is not true either.The mentality that using the minority only is a sure buy and antagonizing the others is also not a good move.
You should start off where you left off.The meetings you had under the zoning.It's a good starting point.Some Igbos did stand with politicians from the pro-zoning days.This same Igbo politicians can go back to this same people and ask for a favor atleast they stood with them at there times of need.Its a good turn deserve another.Then let the Igbos suggest credible/acceptable candidates.I remember sometime back, the Igbos will say no don't give Alex Ekeweme is a nationalist and is not pro-Igbo.He is Igbo and if only you were behind him you would have your first civilian president since and Nigeria would have had her Nigerian Leader!!Some Igbos will prefer candidates that are so ethnocentric that its obvious others will resent them.Look for an Igbo nationalist and forget this Igbo president Ideology.We need a Nigerian president first and you can offer us that from your community if any.

I'm not boasting, but I believe that the most nationalistic Nigerians are Igbo. We have paid our dues in Nigeria, and continue to garner many international laurels for Nigeria. All educated Nigerians know this fact, except that they like to accuse us of ethnocentrism (meanwhile they are the ones with ethnocentric issues) just to find a reason not to support us.
Someone like Soludo understands Northern problems and wants to do something about it without touching religious or cultural sensitive things in the North. I would put my smart money on him, or Rochas Okorocha.
I really don't think that Ndigbo need to do anything more to prove anything to anybody in Nigeria.
The way the younger generation of Igbo see it, we are either Nigerians (and treated like everybody else) or we are not, and we will use everything we have to attempt another secession. We must succeed in one (to be full Nigerians or full Igbo/Biafra).

Here we go again: "the most nationalistic blah blah blah".

Can Nigerians not talk without claiming the highest anthill?

The topic is: getting a South Easterner into Aso Rock! There are many qualified South Easterners.

Instead of strategising, building bridges and understanding party and local politics, the "biggest anthill blah blah blah" comment is dragged out!

Onlytruth:

I'm not boasting, but I believe that the most nationalistic Nigerians are Igbo. We have paid our dues in Nigeria, and continue to garner many international laurels for Nigeria. All educated Nigerians know this fact, except that they like to accuse us of ethnocentrism (meanwhile they are the ones with ethnocentric issues) just to find a reason not to support us.
Someone like Soludo understands Northern problems and wants to do something about it without touching religious or cultural sensitive things in the North. I would put my smart money on him, or Rochas Okorocha.
I really don't think that Ndigbo need to do anything more to prove anything to anybody in Nigeria.
The way the younger generation of Igbo see it, we are either Nigerians (and treated like everybody else) or we are not, and we will use everything we have to attempt another secession. We must succeed in one (to be full Nigerians or full Igbo/Biafra).

I doubt internationally/nationally that is true.The Igbos outside Nigeria are fed lies from home and they too have started to make it look like its an all out war back home.That has extended the frontiers at the international level.They even beat the drums of war more and separation under the victim idea card!I know alot of people of northern outside the country that have severally noted the treatment and resentment the SE and ND people show them outside the country.Hows they openly accuse them and even tell them not to ever think of rendering there expertise in any section of there region down south.So where are we going with this.They will tell them things like its FG resources this people are sponsored with.A friend even told me where in UK,An Igbo Nigeria made bad remarks about him while seeking employment in a company this same Nigerian Igbo was to vet.He told the White that he is from the north.She didn't know exactly what that had to do with the job he is to do.So she simply said well your fellow countryman just said that.The same lady said his resume was the best she had gone through in all the applicants.He insist the Igbo clarifiy the issue?I am saying this because i use to think Nigerians outside the country are more patriotic and united, but i think it's not so.The tales am getting is different.
Try google and read post on Nigerian issues from different fora and you could see the Igbo non nationalistic position all over.If anything the Igbos are not better than anyone Nigeria.I also think you are boasting and boosting issues here.No offence meant.
Your facts about Soludo,Rochas,Ken Nnamani and Dora are in place.They are persons i for one am okay with.The issue too is not about North or East is about Nigeria as a whole.

Sam_Ikenna:

Nwanne, no body is on revenge mission. Igbo is neither a vindictive nation nor a war mongering nation. Always, what we seek for is better life. How Igbo became this devil hiding in the dark is beyond me. Have you asked yourself if its plausible that a man can come to Kano and build a mansion with his family in it only to be planning to burn Kano down? How can we be this vindictive knowing we have more properties in other people's lands than any most group in Nigeria. The fact is you people created that myth. We dont seek revenge on any one. Besides, I thought you guys believed we're disunited so how can we then sit together to say we want revenge? You know what, I think I want a revenge change- good roads, electricity, education, [s]Ending open grazing and fenced ranches for Fulani cattle owners[/s]modernisation of agriculture and handling of land disputes, ending Berom vs Fulani tit-for-tat, Ending Boko Haram criminality and rewarding only law abiding Nigerians., Getting almajiris to school , enacting one man one wife law(in Nigeria it's not possible.Is like supporting same sex publicly), returning Nigeria to regional govt with rescource control , and ending this oil-based economy is my policy revenge.

^^^You must learn to dump that word revenge oga mi!The bolded is not a myth Every other thing else in your post is superb!!!