I appreciate the good words from several of you. If the Lord is in it, it cannot be defeated.
The fact that uncircumcised Abram tithed pagan spoils of war before the Law proves nothing. There is no record that God commanded it or that Abram gave it as a freewill offering. Just because something is very old and very common does not make such an eternal moral principle. Idolatry, worship of the heavens, child sacrifices and temple prostitution were also very old and very common in Abram’s age.

And, since the Bible does not say that Abram’s tithe was an act of faith, such argument cannot be used. It just as easily could have been in obedience to the law of the land.
I have been following this forum for many months and see nothing but dodging the issue from tithe advocates. I have an open Google Search for the words “tithe, tithing, tithe” and my name. My email address is: Russell-kelly@att.net. Unlike tithe teachers, I answer all questions directly and in context and challenge anybody to an open debate on any forum possible.

To Image123: You are rude and non-Berean to accuse those who disagree with you of being “blind and dishonest.” How dare you say this and then refuse to back it up with any Scripture evidence. Are we to cower and run because you have spoken? First, it was not “Abraham’s” tithe; it was “Abram’s” tithe. Second, his tithe was not a “holy” tithe as defined by the Law and as used by Jesus; it was an unholy pagan tithe gathered from Sodom which would have never been accepted as a holy tithe to pay Levites and priests. Third, your conclusion that tithes could be paid from money and non-food items from outside Israel goes against 16 texts which prove otherwise. You conveniently omit the word “holy”; the holy tithe could not come pagan land or from Gentiles. You fail to list any text where tithes could be paid in shekels.

The second festival tithe could be temporarily turned into shekels for ease of transportation but then it must be reconverted to food and drink to be consumed in the streets of Jerusalem (which I assume you faithfully teach). You cannot eat money and only HOLY food could thus be used.

“Anti-tithers have no peace” is a joke. The way I see it, you have added law back into grace and fall under Paul’s condemnation in Galatians 1:8-9 and 3:1-5. Those who have no peace are those who are afraid of the curse of the law for not tithing. Yes, the truth makes us free, but the truth is that Gentiles and the Church NEVER WERE UNDER THE LAW of the Old Covenant or tithing. How do you set somebody free when he never was shackled to the law? As far as taking a poll goes, you are already in the great majority of pastors and churches but your preachers are the ones running from open extended dialog on tithing. Nobody in the USA will debate me and the Nigerian pastor who debated me admitted in his very first statement that he had misunderstood what he was getting into. His web site subsequently said nothing about the debate.
You asked what principle we use to determine how to apply Abraham’s life to the New Covenant. Answer: the Bible. Where the Bible describes something in Abraham’s life as an example of faith, then we should also. Tithing is not called an example of his faith. Tell us what principle you use which includes everything Abraham did. Don’t ask us questions if you are not willing to provide your own answer. All you said was “to me ….” --- not good enough.

“Spiritual principles” are written in the heart and conscience of every man per Romans 2:14-16. “Giving” is an eternal moral spiritual principle because we all know innately that it is right to give; however, tithing ten per cent is not written in man’s heart and conscience; it can only come by special revelation; therefore it cannot be an eternal moral principle.

If Abraham’s tithe were an eternal moral principle, then WHY did Moses not refer to it when God inspired him to write the Old Covenant law of tithing? Why did not Jesus refer to it? Paul only used tithing in Hebrews 7 as a vehicle to prove that Jesus’ priesthood after the order (not the person) of Melchizedek annulled the Levitical Aaronic priesthood (7:5 to 7:12 to 7:18).

Where does the Bible say that gospel workers must be full-time? I like it that way, but there is no Biblical precedent or command. Besides, gospel workers are more closely compared to O.T. prophets rather than O.T. priests.

And I await your explanation of how you justify receiving tithes while owning property.

jidewash: i wont qoute any scripture 4 u.u all need d spirit of God 2 minister 2 u.the bible is meant 4 proof and reproofn.it is given 2 us as a proof of who God was ,is and will be.what God wanted,what he want now and what he will always want.ur question shows u are a literal scholar.good.but u need 2 move on from your gigal 2 jordan where your understandn is not your power nor by your strenght but by the spirit. a place where ur veil drops.let me tell u.there is greater truth.if u dont believe in tithe,u are missn a point.tithe place in under a blessn.the sky above will never be iron nor ur ground be steel.do more commue wit d holyghost,ask him whether u should tithe or not.may ur window be continually open.thank u.

Abeg, religion is not dogma. No dey bobo us for here. Answer the questions posed!

Somebody commented that the Levites and priests must have been full time because they had no land. Read Joshua 20-21, Numbers 35, Nehemiah 13:5-10 and a hundred other places which refer to the Levitical cities. They lived on free land provided by each tribe. They only worked in the Temple one week our of 24. The rest of the time they learned and worked trades to be used in the Temple.

Tithe-teachers act like Malachi 3:8-10 is the most important text in the Bible; It is – for them to line their pockets. Do yourself a big favor:
(1) Read all of Malachi; it only takes a few minutes.
(2) It is addressed to Old Covenant Israel; not the Church. The Church and Gentiles never were under that covenant.
(3) It is specifically addressed to “you” dishonest priests who are cursed 4 times from 1:6 to 2:1 for giving God leftovers.
(4) The tithe is still only FOOD in 3:10 – WOW! Imagine that!
(5) The “storehouse” is actually two small rooms inside the Temple. Compare Neh 13:5 with First King 6:6. Not only is the Church not called a storehouse, neither was the Temple. The Temple included two small rooms for storing a very small portion of the tithe.
(6) Read Neh 10:37b-38. The ordinary people brought their tithes to the Levitical cities. Chew on Neh 10:37b-38 and explain that if you can.

How can an individual who, in a month has only earned about 1/3 of the money required to sustain his needs still be under duress to pay 10% of that insufficient amount. Haba! God can't be this callous. Reflect, oh you pro-tithe 'activists' and let your eyes open!

sammoR: Obviously, Pst Kun or whatever is very confused, apparently not a member of God's family n certainly not a pastor. Do family members wash their dirty linen in public? What's ur problem with tithing anyway? If u don't believe in it, then leave it be n not create a thread where u cause dissension. Focus on how to be relevant in society. What kind of pastor r u? I pity those listening to u. U r apparently not a member of God's fAmily or a very confused n misguided one.

I should believe this is a matured discussion, castigation would not give more credence to your point. Everyone is entitled to their opinion so why don't you avoid this sanctimonous judgement? Therefore sammonR teach us what you know and don't condemn, someone said earlier and I qoute "what you know well should not be hard to explain.

No matter how long the people have been subjected to indoctrination, one day the truth shall be known and as the Holy books says "You shall know the truth and the truth shall set you free".

1

@ OP. What exactly do u intend gaining from this thread? Are you persecuting tithe-preachers and tithe-payers? Nobody is forcing you to tithe I would believe. With the knowledge you have about this topic if it does not appeal to you to pay then DON'T and HOLD YOUR PEACE. You belabour yourself for nothing on this! Different luck for different folks -- "Every man would work out his/her own salvation" .

More & more interesting!

And as usual, those that oppose tithes bring scripture, divide rightly, answer directly and are straight forward!

And those who support show fear, obfuscate issues by using allusions and "moral" arguments.

What is funny is nobody is saying ministries should not be supported. What we keep harping on is that a ministry supported by lies is not showing God!

Well, truth remains - "The love of money is the root of all evil"

russkelly: I appreciate the good words from several of you. If the Lord is in it, it cannot be defeated.
The fact that uncircumcised Abram tithed pagan spoils of war before the Law proves nothing. There is no record that God commanded it or that Abram gave it as a freewill offering. Just because something is very old and very common does not make such an eternal moral principle. Idolatry, worship of the heavens, child sacrifices and temple prostitution were also very old and very common in Abram’s age.

And, since the Bible does not say that Abram’s tithe was an act of faith, such argument cannot be used. It just as easily could have been in obedience to the law of the land.
I have been following this forum for many months and see nothing but dodging the issue from tithe advocates. I have an open Google Search for the words “tithe, tithing, tithe” and my name. My email address is: Russell-kelly@att.net. Unlike tithe teachers, I answer all questions directly and in context and challenge anybody to an open debate on any forum possible.

To Image123: You are rude and non-Berean to accuse those who disagree with you of being “blind and dishonest.” How dare you say this and then refuse to back it up with any Scripture evidence. Are we to cower and run because you have spoken? First, it was not “Abraham’s” tithe; it was “Abram’s” tithe. Second, his tithe was not a “holy” tithe as defined by the Law and as used by Jesus; it was an unholy pagan tithe gathered from Sodom which would have never been accepted as a holy tithe to pay Levites and priests. Third, your conclusion that tithes could be paid from money and non-food items from outside Israel goes against 16 texts which prove otherwise. You conveniently omit the word “holy”; the holy tithe could not come pagan land or from Gentiles. You fail to list any text where tithes could be paid in shekels.

The second festival tithe could be temporarily turned into shekels for ease of transportation but then it must be reconverted to food and drink to be consumed in the streets of Jerusalem (which I assume you faithfully teach). You cannot eat money and only HOLY food could thus be used.

“Anti-tithers have no peace” is a joke. The way I see it, you have added law back into grace and fall under Paul’s condemnation in Galatians 1:8-9 and 3:1-5. Those who have no peace are those who are afraid of the curse of the law for not tithing. Yes, the truth makes us free, but the truth is that Gentiles and the Church NEVER WERE UNDER THE LAW of the Old Covenant or tithing. How do you set somebody free when he never was shackled to the law? As far as taking a poll goes, you are already in the great majority of pastors and churches but your preachers are the ones running from open extended dialog on tithing. Nobody in the USA will debate me and the Nigerian pastor who debated me admitted in his very first statement that he had misunderstood what he was getting into. His web site subsequently said nothing about the debate.
You asked what principle we use to determine how to apply Abraham’s life to the New Covenant. Answer: the Bible. Where the Bible describes something in Abraham’s life as an example of faith, then we should also. Tithing is not called an example of his faith. Tell us what principle you use which includes everything Abraham did. Don’t ask us questions if you are not willing to provide your own answer. All you said was “to me ….” --- not good enough.

“Spiritual principles” are written in the heart and conscience of every man per Romans 2:14-16. “Giving” is an eternal moral spiritual principle because we all know innately that it is right to give; however, tithing ten per cent is not written in man’s heart and conscience; it can only come by special revelation; therefore it cannot be an eternal moral principle.

If Abraham’s tithe were an eternal moral principle, then WHY did Moses not refer to it when God inspired him to write the Old Covenant law of tithing? Why did not Jesus refer to it? Paul only used tithing in Hebrews 7 as a vehicle to prove that Jesus’ priesthood after the order (not the person) of Melchizedek annulled the Levitical Aaronic priesthood (7:5 to 7:12 to 7:18).

Where does the Bible say that gospel workers must be full-time? I like it that way, but there is no Biblical precedent or command. Besides, gospel workers are more closely compared to O.T. prophets rather than O.T. priests.

And I await your explanation of how you justify receiving tithes while owning property.

How i wish Dr Russell Kelly could come to Nigeria for a crusade there are sooo many souls underbondage here that need deliverance from the evil yoke of tithe placed on their lives by mere men mis using the word of God.

@Image123
Don't think you have escaped answering the kweshions you are being asked as the traffic on this page now would definitely cause distractions. When the traffic reduces i trust Goshen would resume with the examination. So don't thank your stars Just yet.

mollie12: . . . The Bible lets us know that 'a little leaven leaveneth the whole lot'. That's what I regard this tithing issue as - leaven. If you let your mind be conformed to the idea that God demands or requires tithe from you to bless you, you have allowed leaven, because this is an untruth. All God requires to keep you in His line of favor is to be reconciled to Him - and this is only achieved by salvation through Christ. Leaven is yeast - if you are familiar with baking you would understand that the end result of the yeast you allow into your pastry is not comparable in size with what you put in in the first place. . . .

This leaven is particularly dangerous leaven especially in societies that tend towards materialism and corruption. It encourages out and out thieves to enter the fold and make things worse in other ways with all sorts of lunacy (passed of as "Christian doctrine" ) to support the sham edifice they call "ministry". It is the kind of leaven that encourages the sort of lunacies on display here https://www.nairaland.com/930598/will-you-attend-these-type

Well, it is obvious that our modern day pastors have twisted some bible verses to suit their aim while inflicting fear on their followers who do not pay tithes but I did say that why some of us are enslaved to these pastors is because we are too lazy to read the Bible and understand what it says rather we prefer having it read to us, then what do you expect?,this guys twist it to suit them because you are ignorant and most times, the just pick out that one verse without letting you know the actual events or scenarios.

The fear and superstition is as real as any mountain. The teaching uses mainly people's gut feelings that it must have been their paying tithes that provided and protected them not God in His grace & mercy. In a place where roads are so bad accidents abound, a place where health care can be expensive for some leading to untimely deaths, paying tithes gives some the illusion that they've stopped the devourer by their works (tithes).

The side effects of millions giving 10% of their earnings for life to Pastors is that when such pastors keep the bulk of the money to THEMSELVES, those children who need fees, hospital bills, food etc are neglected.

What it has done is it has made charitable works take secondary place. The one that broke my heart was when one tithe advocate was advising someone on Nairaland that even if the tither's child is sick and dying, he MUST NOT use his tithe for hospital bills!

If Tithe Teachers truly want a tithe Principle, they should exempt the poor widows, orphans and ALLOW the Tither give of his tithe DIRECTLY to the poor if they choose to.

The Pastor has a pulpit to argue his case of giving to him (pastor); WHO will speak out on behalf of the por & downtrodden?

Where is the pulpit that will speak out for them the way Jesus did?

Pastor Kun: @Image123
Don't think you have escaped answering the kweshions you are being asked as the traffic on this page now would definitely cause distractions. When the traffic reduces i trust Goshen would resume with the examination. So don't thank your stars Just yet.

I'd advise you open a new thread with with russkelly's submission as a point of discussion. I fear this wonderful thread with all its lessons for Christians ia bout to be shoved down NL's archives, usually what happens when a religious thread hits front page.

Why should our “business men“ pastors take tithes knowing that tithes were supposed to take care of levites whom the LORD has chosen and called unto HIS service and they had no land for thier possession?

@debo
Where is your suggestion na, or you're too shy or proud to give it? What do you suggest we do with the passage? i've already explained how i take the so called once recorded example. i take it in cummulative, not in isolation. i look at Genesis, Leviticus, Numbers, Deut, Malachi, Nehemiah, Matthew, Luke, Timothy, Corinthians, Hebrews, etc and then i make my decisions. I don't cherry pick or isolate, i look at the passage wrt other passages. Abraham's spoils of war was an increase, a gain for him. He may have lost the war but he WON. i give tithe when i win/increase.
"And in the morning, rising up a great while before day, he went out, and departed into a solitary place, and there prayed." (Mark 1:35).
This is the passage i was referring to. The 'popular' quiet time or MORNING DEVOTION is based on this. Bible records something once about Paul using handkerchiefs, people use it forever at 'healing rooms/meetings'. According to your faith, it is to you.

I suspect there are non Nigerians contributing to this topic, I read and I am impressed but if all these comments are from Nigerians then we are gradually being emancipated at last from religious mediocrity. I am glad avenues like these are available for people to debate and learn.

Way to go @Pastor Kun, Goshen360, nuclearboy and russkelly!

@iconic s,
[size=14pt]why do you muddle things up here,
how is melchizedeck 'a type' of 'christ'and to what 'what extent'?
[/size]
iconic s quote;

Abraham paid tithes to melchizedec (Heb 7:1-10) [size=14pt]who is a type of Christ.[/size]

How much do you really know about tithing? By Roger Sapp

Take the following True or False quiz to see how much your really understand about tithing. We predict that many of you will be surprised. Record your answers.

True or False? 1. The Lord Jesus Christ would have tithed.

True or False? 2. Simon Peter, originally a fisherman, would have tithed of the fish that he caught.

True or False? 3. Everyone in the Old Testament seeking to obey the Law of Moses would have tithed.

True or False 4. Abraham tithed to Melchizedek in the same way that believers tithe to the Lord Jesus Christ.

True or False? 5. The Lord Jesus Christ taught His disciples that they should tithe.

True or False? 6. There are many examples of people tithing of their incomes in the Bible.

True or False? 7. The New Testament teaches that we should tithe to ministers in the same way that Jews tithed to the Priests.

True or False? 8. The Bible teaches that God’s standard for giving is ten-percent.

True or False? 9. The righteous poor tithed in the Old Testament.

True or False? 10. Since everyone is held to the same standard, tithing is fair to everyone.

True or False? Bonus Question. The Bible teaches that everyone should give ten-percent of their ongoing income.

Here are the answers.

True or False? 1. The Lord Jesus Christ would have tithed of His income. This one is false. The Lord Jesus Christ was a carpenter by profession and then after He became 30 years old He was a preacher and teacher. Neither of these professions was required by the Law of Moses to tithe anything.

True or False? 2. Simon Peter, originally a fisherman, would have tithed of the fish that he caught. This one is false also. Fishermen were not required to tithe anything either. There were only two kinds of professions in ancient Israel that were required to tithe. Farmers and husbandmen (shepherds and herders) were the only tithers in ancient Israel. They only tithed food.

True or False? 3. Everyone in the Old Testament seeking to obey the Law of Moses would have tithed. It should be evident by now that this one is false also. There were many people with other professions who were not required by the Law to tithe. For instance, the apostle Paul being a tent-maker was not required to tithe. In fact, none of the Twelve apostles would have been tithers because none of them came from the required professions.

True or False? 4. Abraham tithed to Melchizedek in the same way that believers tithe to the Lord Jesus Christ. This one is false also. Abraham’s tithe was very different than what the Church practices today. For instance, Abraham only tithed once. The Church tithes continually. Abraham tithed of the spoils of a war. The Church tithes of its income. Abraham had no increase because he gave the other 90% of the spoils of the war back to the original owner. The Church tithes of its increase. There is no commandment or any logic or indication in the New Testament that believers are to tithe anything to the Lord Jesus Christ. Believers are to give generously as God blesses them.

True or False? 5. The Lord Jesus Christ taught His disciples that they should tithe. False. Christ only makes two statements about tithing. Neither statement says that His disciples should tithe anything. Christ first statement is to the Pharisees not to His disciples. In that statement, Christ says that the Pharisees should continue to tithe food not money. He also says that this tithe of food is a part of the Law and says that it is not even an important part of the Law. His other statement is about a self-righteous Pharisee bragging that he tithes. Christ says that the other man who was not tithing who humbled himself was justified in the sight of God. The self-righteous tither was not justified in the sight of God.

True or False? 6. There are many examples of people tithing of their incomes in the Bible. False. In 4000 years of recorded biblical history there is not a single example of what the Church practices today in tithing money. There are two one-time acts of tithing recorded before the Law. Neither man, Abraham or Jacob, seems to think that they should continue this process beyond the one-time act. Neither man is tithing of their income since each is only involved in a one-time act. Abraham is tithing of the spoils of a war. All the other tithing recorded in the Bible is found in the Law of Moses. In the Law, money was never used to tithe only food. In fact, when someone wanted to use money rather than bring the produce to Jerusalem, God required a 20% penalty to be added. In other words, God discouraged the tithing of money.

True or False? 7. The New Testament teaches that we should tithe to ministers in the same way that Jews tithed to the Priests. False. The New Testament has nothing at all to say about this. This is extra-biblical logic that is not found in the New Testament. In fact, the Book of Hebrews makes it clear that believers are not of the Levitical order of priests. Believers are of a higher order, the order of Melchizedek.

True or False? 8. The Bible teaches that God’s standard for giving is ten-percent. False. Neither the Old Testament or the New Testament teaches this. This is extra-biblical logic again. First of all, the food tithe in the Old Testament was not ten-percent. It was actually more like 23% annually on average. There were three tithes in the Law of Moses. The first tithe was paid only by agrarian families three times yearly to the Priests in Jerusalem. The second tithe was saved by the agrarian families to support this annual trip. It was called the festival tithe. It was for a family vacation. The third tithe was given every three years to the local storehouse, so it amounted to about 3% annually. This was the poor tithe collected for those in need. This is the tithe that Malachi wrote about. None of these tithes were money. They were only food. Those who earned their livings by other occupations did not pay a tithe of anything. However, they did give offerings required by the Law some of which were in silver, gold, bronze and copper coins. Nowhere does the New Testament change this legal obligation of tithe food for some agrarian Israelites in the Law to money tithing for all Christians.

True or False? 9. The righteous poor tithed in the Old Testament. False. The poor had no harvest or flocks to tithe from. They were able to glean the corners of the field of those who were more prosperous.

True or False? 10. Since everyone is held to the same standard, tithing is fair to everyone. False. Tithing is incredibly unfair. Ten-percent of the income of a poor person is a great burden, while ten-percent of the income of a rich person may be no burden at all. If a person only has a $1000 a month income, then $100 of that income will affect their lifestyle and may even impact their ability to take care of their children’s basic needs and pay their bills. If a person has a $10,000 a month income then giving $1,000 per month should have little affect on their lifestyle since they should have a good amount of disposable income beyond their basic needs. If a person has a $100,000 a month income, then $10,000 a month has no appreciable affect on their lifestyle at all.

True or False? Bonus Question. The Bible teaches that everyone should give ten-percent of their ongoing income. False. The modern practice of tithing has five basic elements expressed as everyone gives 10% of ongoing income. How do Bible facts about tithing actually fit with this teaching? Lets compare and contrast the modern teaching of tithing with the Bible.

Everyone gives 10% of ongoing income. Considering the Everyone element. The two events before the Law do not support the idea that everyone should pay tithe. Only Abraham and Jacob in each situation are paying tithe. Genesis doesn’t record anyone else tithing. Abraham and Jacob don’t seem to teach their children to tithe. One of Jacob’s children, Joseph, is a particularly righteous man. In the more than ten detailed chapters devoted to Joseph, we don’t discover him tithing either. Not everyone tithed in Genesis before the Law.

In the Law of Moses, not everyone was required to tithe or give firstfruits. Only those who were actually growing food or raising sheep or cattle were required by the Law to tithe the food or present firstfruits. People from other occupations were not required to tithe since they had no harvest or growth of flocks to tithe or to present firstfruits from. Not everyone tithed food who lived under the Law. No one under the Law tithed money at all.

Christ has only a few words to say about tithing. In those words, Christ does not say that everyone should tithe. He says that unbelieving Jews living under the Law should tithe food if they are growing it. He mentions three food plants. Christ is not addressing His disciples. He is addressing unbelieving Pharisees.

The apostle Paul does not teach that everyone is obligated to tithe or to even to give. He teaches that giving is completely voluntary. The first apostolic council in Acts Chapter 15 does not say that Gentile believers should tithe either. There is absolutely no evidence that any Gentile Christian in the First Century ever tithed anything.

Everyone gives 10% of ongoing income. Considering the gives element. The two events before the Law do seem like giving. They are both voluntary acts. God does not require either man, Abraham or Jacob, to give anything. While this does on the surface seem to support the tithing teaching, it actually contradicts some aspects of the Tithing Obligation teaching. While the proponents of tithing teach that tithing is giving, they also often teach that tithing is required, that a tithe must be paid. Of course, this is a contradiction in their teaching. Something can be only given if it is entirely voluntary. If it is required, then it is, in this case, a fee for spiritual services or a religious tax. If some teach that a believer comes under a curse if they do not tithe, then they are not teaching giving but teaching paying an obligated tithe. Of course, they are right in one sense because they are often spiritualizing the Law of Moses to teach tithing.

Tithing in the Law of Moses was never giving. It was much more like paying taxes. The Law of Moses required tithing by farmers and husbandmen. They would not have seen their tithing as giving. There was nothing voluntary in their paying tithe. They would have been in violation of the Law if they had not done it.

Again, Christ has very little to say about tithing. He did say that Jewish people living under the Law pay tithe. Christ does teach a great deal about finances and giving but never instructs His disciples to tithe money or anything else. He does not instruct them to receive tithes either.

Paul writes a great deal about finances and giving but never instructs anyone to tithe or to receive tithes. The first apostolic council in Acts Chapter 15 is silent on the subject of tithing but is clear that Gentiles are not to keep any aspects of the Law of Moses. That would include tithing of anything.

Everyone gives 10% of ongoing income. Considering the 10% element. The two events before the Law of Moses do seem to support the idea that ten percent of something should be given. The number ten is the same. However, the other four elements are significantly different. This makes tithing being practiced by the Church very different from what is happening in Genesis. The only similarity is the ten percent number.

Christ does validate the ten-percent number but only for Jews living under the Law of Moses. He tells the Pharisees that they should pay tithe, ten percent, of their produced food. He also tells them that paying ten-percent is not a weighty matter of the Law. In saying this, Christ does tell us that tithing is a matter of the Law.

The apostle Paul repeatedly warns believers about the curse of the Law. Gentile believers should not attempt to keep any aspects of the Law. Believers are not required to give ten-percent of food or anything else. The writings of the other apostles, James and Peter, are silent about Christians giving ten percent of food or anything else.

Everyone gives 10% of ongoing income. Considering the ongoing element. The two examples before the Law of Moses do not reveal the practice of on-going tithing. They both appear strongly to be one-time acts. In the case of Jacob, we don’t know exactly what he did but it does seem that he is promising to tithe once if God blesses him. The Church’s practice of ongoing, repetitious tithing simply cannot be validated by two one-time acts.

The only place in the Bible where ongoing, repetitious tithing can be found is in the Law of Moses. Those who were farming or practicing husbandry in Israel had a lifetime obligation to tithe the food that they produced. This ongoing food tithe to support the Mosaic Levitical ministry is often spiritualized to justify repetitious money tithing in support of Christian ministry. This justification is not found in the New Testament.

Christ’s statement about tithing reveals that the ongoing tithing of food is under the Law. Christ says nothing about His disciples practicing ongoing tithing of anything. While the writings of the apostles in the New Testament often speak of generous giving, they are silent about ongoing tithing of anything. The first apostolic council is also silent about ongoing tithing of anything but releases Gentile believers from any aspects of keeping the Law of Moses.

Everyone gives 10% of ongoing income. Considering the income element. Abraham tithes on the spoils of war, not his entire income. Abraham tithed the captured belongings of his defeated enemies. Additionally, Genesis reveals that Abraham didn’t even keep the ninety percent that was remaining. He returned those possessions to the King of Sodom. Abraham’s income, his possessions or any part of his own wealth wasn’t involved at all in his tithing. He had no increase to tithe on. In Jacob’s case, we don’t know exactly what he did since all Genesis records is his promise to God. In other words, there is no support in the events before the Law that Christians should give ten percent of their ongoing income.

Nearly everyone that teaches tithing resorts to using the Law and prophets under the Law to teach it. Those that teach Christian tithing from the Law often neglect to reveal that only food produced was tithed on but never money. Only those who earned their livings by producing food tithed at all. Those Israelites who earned money by other means such as tent making, weaving, carpentry, money lending, fishing or many other occupations never tithed on their incomes since it was not commanded of them.

Christ does not change tithing food to tithing money. The writings of the apostles do not change tithing food to tithing money. The apostolic council releases the Gentile believers from any keeping of the Law. They certainly do not change tithing food to tithing money. The book of Hebrews does mention the Old Testament tithing of food but does not validate tithing money for believers today.

Finally, it should be obvious to the reader that this doctrine is pieced together from these various passages. Not a single passage in itself actually teaches what the Church practices today. Spiritualization of the Law is used to teach tithing. Reasoning that is not found in the Bible is used to justify Christians embracing a legalistic practice from the Old Testament. In more than 4000 years of recorded Biblical history, there is not a single recorded example of tithing that is similar to what the Church practices today. We recommend that every Christian renounce this unscriptural practice and reject any lingering fear, guilt or condemnation! God’s children have no debt to their Father to pay other than thanksgiving and praise. Their elder brother, the Lord Jesus Christ, has paid in full the debt. Christ will build His Church but only with the truth. He needs no help from a false doctrine that puts the Children of God under bondage and the curse of the Law. The children are free! (A portion of this article was taken from Dr.Sapp’s book "The Children are Free" the third book in the "Paid in Full" Financial Series. This book examines in great detail the teaching of tithing.) The CD series below goes through the 10 questions above. It is a good way to explain to someone why tithing is not God's way

http://tithing.christian-things.com/howmuch.html

@Enigma:

Why you want me to throw up from laughter this morning? That thread you referred to is more than I can handle on a morning, abeg!

Meanwhile, I suspect the imege below is that of Image123

Holy anger

Will you oblige me and give me a summary of the basis on which you tithe on a monthly basis from your salary?

i've already given the basis, it's biblical, reasonable and responsible.
"It hath pleased them verily; and their debtors they are. For if the Gentiles have been made partakers of their spiritual things, their duty is also to minister unto them in carnal things." (Romans 15:27)
"If we have sown unto you spiritual things, is it a great thing if we shall reap your carnal things?" (1 Corinthians 9:11).
It's simple logic to figure out the importance of tax/tribute to government. And of consistent giving to full time ministers. I simply look into history and see the way clergy has been efficiently sustained both in and out of Judaism. And i know that i have power to do more than the old testament folks combined together.

^

So your belief is based on your "feeling" that since tax has always been used, tax has to continue being used regardless of divine directives?

How much of those Tithes get the homeless and motherless and the people in need as the Holy Book commanded ? None ! Religion na wuru wuru these days.

Did Melchizedek need to be supported by Abraham? Was it not Melchizedek that refreshed/blessed Abraham with bread and wine. Can you explain how/whether Abraham's tithe was for taking care of God's servant? If the tithes were instituted for taking care of God's servants in full time service, is tithing mentioned the new testament passages talking about support for ministers?

Melchisedec did not bless Abraham with bread and wine, i thought i corrected that earlier, i wonder where you guys got that. Blessings is not limited to material things. Giving someone who's coming from war bread is not a big issue. He simply refreshed Abraham, just like our ministers that serve in the tabernacle do every now and then. But Abraham gave him a tenth of all the spoils he got after victory over 5strong kings in mesopotamia. Kings stronger than the King of Sodom and his pals. What do you think the tithes mentioned in the NT was used for? To me, it was for the same purpose, for the service and for their upkeep.

Malachi 3:9 says, "Ye are cursed with a curse" if you don't, Galatians 3:13 "Christ redeemed us from the curse".

Are we under the Old Testament law today? That is the question.If u do not stone an adulterous woman and do without other old testament laws then why do u keep only one of the laws in the new testament(because tithing is an old testament law).it is either u do all or u do none.
But this means u r free to give all ur earnings if u so wish.God is trying to test ur ability to give without him placing u under a strict law.

Tithing in the new covenant

Now let us consider whether tithing is required in the new covenant. Tithing is mentioned only three or four times in the New Testament. Jesus acknowledged that the Pharisees were very careful about tithing (Luke 18:12), and he said that they should not leave it undone (Matt. 23:23; Luke 11:42). Tithing, like other old covenant rules and rituals, was a law at the time Jesus spoke. Jesus criticized the Pharisees not for tithing, but for treating tithing as more important than mercy, love, justice and faithfulness.

The only other New Testament mention of tithing is in Hebrews. The fact that Abraham was blessed by and paid tithes to Melchizedek illustrates the superiority of Melchizedek and Jesus Christ over the Levitical priesthood (Heb. 7:1-10). The passage then goes on to note that "when the priesthood is changed, the law must be changed also" (verse 12).

There was a change of the priesthood from the Levites to Jesus Christ, and this implies a change in the law that assigned the Levites to be priests. How much has been changed? Hebrews says that the old covenant is obsolete. The package of laws that commanded tithes to be given to the Levites is obsolete.

Humans should honor God by voluntarily returning some of the blessings he gives them — this is still a valid principle. The only place that a percentage is required is within the old covenant. There is good precedent for tithing before Sinai, but no proof that it was required.

Read the following articles
http://www.intothelight.org/tithing.asp
http://www.gci.org/law/tithing

Well said !!!

nuclearboy: ^

So your belief is based on your "feeling" that since tax has always been used, tax has to continue being used regardless of divine directives?

Nuclear, you're older than cherry picking my posts na. You've read all i posted on this thread, and i trust you do not suffer from lack of 'retentive' memory? Meanwhile what do we do with all your agberos, we're on question 8 in our deal remember? This place is such a market now, do we wait(ehn Goshen?) Or start a new thread?
BTW, it's a pleasure having Dr. Russel in our midst, although he came on market day.

Pastor Kun:

You would find the answer to your kweshion in deut 14:22-29, I would have loved to post the verses here but I am currently browsing with my phone. If you read it God's reasons are clearly stated there and the conditions for those reasons don't exist today. Neither is the tithe being preached today similar to the biblical version.

22 You shall surely tithe all the increase of your seed, that which comes forth from the field year by year. 23 You shall eat before Yahweh your God, in the place which he shall choose, to cause his name to dwell there, the tithe of your grain, of your new wine, and of your oil, and the firstborn of your herd and of your flock; that you may learn to fear Yahweh your God always. 24 If the way is too long for you, so that you are not able to carry it, because the place is too far from you, which Yahweh your God shall choose, to set his name there, when Yahweh your God shall bless you; 25 then you shall turn it into money, and bind up the money in your hand, and shall go to the place which Yahweh your God shall choose: 26 and you shall bestow the money for whatever your soul desires, for cattle, or for sheep, or for wine, or for strong drink, or for whatever your soul asks of you; and you shall eat there before Yahweh your God, and you shall rejoice, you and your household. 27 The Levite who is within your gates, you shall not forsake him; for he has no portion nor inheritance with you. 28 At the end of every three years you shall bring forth all the tithe of your increase in the same year, and shall lay it up within your gates: 29 and the Levite, because he has no portion nor inheritance with you, and the foreigner living among you, and the fatherless, and the widow, who are within your gates, shall come, and shall eat and be satisfied; that Yahweh your God may bless you in all the work of your hand which you do.

(KJV)Matthew 23:23
Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.