|Join Nairaland / LOGIN! / Trending / Recent / New|
Stats: 2,185,397 members, 4,765,132 topics. Date: Sunday, 17 February 2019 at 04:54 PM
Poll: What is your opinion of tithe preachers.They genuinely believe it is required: 13% (35 votes)
They know it is not relevant to christianity but they still preach it for money: 21% (55 votes)
They are preaching the gospel truth: 28% (73 votes)
They are genuinely ignorant of the truth about biblical tithes.: 9% (25 votes)
They are just business men trying to make a dis honest living.: 27% (71 votes)
This poll has ended
|Uncomfortable Questions For Tithe Preachers by PastorKun(m): 5:37pm On Apr 13, 2012|
Questions Tithing Advocates Fail To Answer!
Our modern day tithe teachers do not have intellectual honesty.
Most of the pro-tithers cling onto Matthew 23:23 & Luke 11:42 and say that even Jesus said so, therefore the NT Christians need to tithe. If they take Matthew 23:23/Luke 11:42 as a command for New Testament Christians to tithe here are the questions they need to answer:
1. According to Mishna and Flavious Josephus the 1st century Jews practiced
multiple tithes (almost 3). How did the early Christians practice all 3 tithes?
2. Did the early Christians who did not own farms and cattle give 23% of their earned income to their Churches?
3. Levitical tithes were yearly and it went to Levites according to their
locations. Who are the Levites today and who were the Levites in 1st century
4. How did the “NT Levites” take the 10% of the 10% to the “NT Priests”?
5. If the NT Pastor is the priest don’t we have to tithe to the ushers, choir,
greeters and other Church staff members and let them tithe from their tithes to
the (senior) Pastor?
6. Why does the Senior Pastor collect all tithes today and give salaries to the
staff members and leave many Church workers unpaid? The OT High Priests did not
do that. The OT Aaronic Priests received only 1% of the total tithe.
7. In the OT the High Priests themselves did not tithe but why do our modern day prosperity
preachers tithe to their cohorts?
8. Regarding the festival tithe, do Christians need to go to Jerusalem to observe it as the Jews did? What is our Jerusalem now? Did the NT Christians practice pilgrimage to Jerusalem?. The festival tithe must be taken to Jerusalem. If that was prescribed to NT Christians we should make pilgrimage to Jerusalem like the Muslims visit Mecca?!?!?!
9. The 3rd tithe for poor (Charity Tithe): Why don’t tithe asking Pastors give their congregation the liberty to take care of the poor? Why would it go to the benevolent funds controlled by the Church board? Poor people need to go through hoops to get some help. That really complicates the process?
10. Even if we assume that tithing was commanded to NT Christians the pro-tithers fail to consider one important thing:
* The plurality of the NT Church leadership.
a. In the first century Christianity no Church was run by a single Pastor. The Churches were founded by Apostles and they in turn appointed elders a.k.a Pastors (in plural – more than one). Why can’t the tithe seeking Pastors follow that model today?
b. Also the early Church had all 5 five fold ministries in the Church.
Apostles, Prophets, Teachers, Evangelists and Pastors. Well, we all cannot agree if the offices of Apostles and Prophets exist today but we all can agree at least the offices of Pastors, Evangelists and Teaches exist in our contemporary Christianity. So the point is, even if the early Church received tithes it was divided amongst all 5 fold ministers and the money DID NOT GO TO A SINGLE PASTOR unlike what we see today. The tithing advocates today need to answer this question as well. They are unwilling to accommodate other types of ministries but want to dominate and control the finances which is totally unfair.
c. Acts 13:1
Now there were at Antioch, in the church that was there, prophets and teachers: Barnabas, and Simeon who was called Niger, and Lucius of Cyrene, and Manaen who had been brought up with Herod the tetrarch, and Saul.
In Acts 13:1 we see in the early Church of Antioch they had 5 ministers who were prophets and teachers. Is it logical to assume all these 5 ministers received “double portion” of the “tithes” that that Church was receiving if it ever received money as tithe. When Paul and Barnabas were commissioned as Apostles a few verses later did they start receiving half of the money they got when they had that dual calling of functioning as prophets and teachers. In Acts chapter 13 we see their dual function of prophets and teachers was changed by the Holy Spirit to only one office in the five-fold ministry.
d. Many Senior Pastors have their associate Pastors. Most of them are not paid well and some of them are asked to “live by faith”. These tithe hungry Pastors not only forget the poor but also neglect their own staff members. This example was certainly not followed by the first century Christian church.
Therefore the pro-tithers still would not meet the NT model of tithing even if it was practiced by the early Christian church.
New Testament Christians Don’t Be Deceived By these Mammon Lovers!!
|Re: Uncomfortable Questions For Tithe Preachers by numo86(m): 5:53pm On Apr 13, 2012|
My bro u just said it all...ur on point!!!!
I myself still ask tithe payers who they think are d levitical class today....and who is d high priest.....
Jesus is now our high priest and never for once did he receive tithes even when he was on earth....
I also ask:::in the past tithes were paid to d levites(ushers,singers,servers,and other workers in d temple), who in turn paid to d high priest..why don't d choir groups,ushers(who are now ladies wearing mini skirts),piano player and drummer boy all receive tithes if they wanna strictly go by d tithe rule??
Why only oga pastor receiving tithes
These questions pastors never bother to answer,but they rather will continue to milk there members dry....
I'v even forgotten prayer warriors,who r usually d poorest amongst them all....
|Re: Uncomfortable Questions For Tithe Preachers by Goshen360(m): 6:06pm On Apr 13, 2012|
We await our Christian brothers and sisters (don't wanna mention names/names withheld) that teaches tithe to come out and honestly give answers to these kweshions OR ........
|Re: Uncomfortable Questions For Tithe Preachers by PastorKun(m): 6:45pm On Apr 13, 2012|
Goshen360: We await our Christian brothers and sisters (don't wanna mention names/names withheld) that teaches tithe to come out and honestly give answers to these kweshions OR ........
Do you seriously expect them to come out and answer these questions? These questions are too hot and they know that any attempt at answering them would expose them for the hypocrites they are. My bet is that all pro tithe preachers would simply ignore this thread less they be made to look fullish.
|Re: Uncomfortable Questions For Tithe Preachers by Goshen360(m): 7:03pm On Apr 13, 2012|
Don't jump to conclusion bro. Let's wait for them. Am counting on them to answer these kweshions. And hopefully, if they fail to answer now, anytime we have tithe discussion again, we will re-post these kweshions to them,lol
|Re: Uncomfortable Questions For Tithe Preachers by ogajim(m): 8:05pm On Apr 13, 2012|
You guys will wait a while because I don't know that they've finished county the "Easter" windfall.....
The mondern day Pastors use fear and "promotion" to both intimidate and "reward" the "faithful" among them who refused to act like the Berean Christians and question unholy Gospel being spewed out from their pulpits. I have no desire to be made a "minister" or any of that nonsense so I would do what the Bible commanded and let their man made commands go to waste until such a time one of them is BOLD enough to approach me with the "why are you not paying tithe" thing then I will UNLOAD on their behinds before I seek a new palce of worship.
True service to God is really not as hard as the money monger make it out ot be, let the buyer beware!
|Re: Uncomfortable Questions For Tithe Preachers by Image123(m): 10:58pm On Apr 13, 2012|
This shows a poor, v.poor understanding of tithes and tithing. As usual, i leave kunle to his blindness.
|Re: Uncomfortable Questions For Tithe Preachers by PastorKun(m): 11:12pm On Apr 13, 2012|
Image123: This shows a poor, v.poor understanding of tithes and tithing. As usual, i leave kunle to his blindness.
Olodo as usual you are making bland statements! Over ten issues were raised and you can't address a single one of them instead of resorting to the cheap tactic of attacking my personality.
I challenge you if you have a single iota of integrity in you to answer at least one of the questions raised (biblically) whit out twisting scriptures. If not go and bury your heaD in shame and repent of your evil ways of leading believers astray.
|Re: Uncomfortable Questions For Tithe Preachers by Goshen360(m): 12:00am On Apr 14, 2012|
@ Bro Image123,
You don't have to attack Bro Kunle's person as he said. It's no beef at all. All you have to do is, pick one of those kweshions and teach otherwise. You don't have to attach his person sir. You have already stepped into this and we expect you to honestly do justice to any of the kweshions. Like one of my friends would say and I quote, "What you know should not be too hard to explain".
God bless you bro.
|Re: Uncomfortable Questions For Tithe Preachers by Image123(m): 11:21am On Apr 14, 2012|
i'm not attacking kunle's personality, whatever that means. i've only stated the truth, kunle should best be ignored because he is blind and unwilling to learn. He just wastes your time going in circles. For instance, if question one is answered, kunle would run to another question and another. At the end of the day(day here being day or week or month even year), kunle would ask question one again here or in another thread, as if his query had never been addressed before.
|Re: Uncomfortable Questions For Tithe Preachers by Snowwy: 11:47am On Apr 14, 2012|
Biblical honesty is the key @OP, and you are yet to show that.
On the contrary those that tithe believe the importance of why God constituted it and this is done in appreciation of the blessings of God.
Abraham, whose faith was reckoned as righteousness gave a tenth of the spoil which were legally his to the priest, Melchisedek, he met while on his way from the victory of battle.
The commandment of God in Numbers 18 emphasized tithe. Malachai 3:10 God spoke about it, Jesus said it should not be left undone and Paul said the Lord had commanded those that preach the gospel to live of the gospel just like the ministers of old.
Now who laid the statutes, commandments and judgements to be followed in Deuteronomy 12 through to Deut.
14. Did you notice these statues, commandments and judgements also had all the laws of not eating certain animals, laws of forgiving debts at a certain time of the years etc.
Please since you posted this article, show us where afterwards, we see people giving the tithes to the poor and eating their tithe in the bible?
Don't forget they didn't eat just their tithe...they ate their freewill offering, firstfruits, vows etc as well. In your study after this scriptures, the tithes that you see mentioned were for who?
The tithes that was commanded by God was referenced in the NT as well even I cor. 9 & Hebrew 7. All the tithe was given to the ministers of old.
That is what we are talking about.
If present day preachers tithe to the churches of other preachers they have received spiritual seed from then I assume they are following I Cor 9:11 as no man is an island of spiritual knowledge.
The tithe is for those whose primary duty is service and work of the gospel...no man takes all the tithe to himself...even the ministers of old shared it amongst themselves as they were very many, both those that stayed at the altar and that served in the temple (the whole levitical priesthood). They individually had their personal portion.
If it is wrong for the church to ask people to bring things they have to give to the poor, widows etc, why do we have charity homes doing same of which you have no issues with.
We are to give to the needy, giving to welfare schemes should not stop you from giving personally as well.
Besides, even the welfare schemes also have procedures they follow to give to the needy as well...they don't just give any tom, dick and harry.
Before you ask any further questions after answering the questions above, DO YOU BELIEVE TITHE WAS ABOLISHED per HEB 7:18? Especially noting now that you have not brought up tithe being abolished after the expose @goshen and I had recently.
This will aid me to understand whether to continue this conversation or not.
@goshen, hmmmm, though you were taking leave from NL based on our last discussions for more study. You even said you would respond only to me on the last questions you asked.
Lol...the lure was too strong abi?
|Re: Uncomfortable Questions For Tithe Preachers by PastorKun(m): 11:58am On Apr 14, 2012|
Image123: i'm not attacking kunle's personality, whatever that means. i've only stated the truth, kunle should best be ignored because he is blind and unwilling to learn. He just wastes your time going in circles. For instance, if question one is answered, kunle would run to another question and another. At the end of the day(day here being day or week or month even year), kunle would ask question one again here or in another thread, as if his query had never been addressed before.
Why don't you address any of the issues raised without twisting scripture to justify your delusions and stop whining.
|Re: Uncomfortable Questions For Tithe Preachers by PastorKun(m): 12:11pm On Apr 14, 2012|
Welcome to the thread I have been expecting you
Yes hebrews 7 clearly abolishes tithing and the levitical priesthood it supported, but when taken into context that it was addressed to Hebrew people that used to tithe as part of their religion it even brings better understanding. What is more instructive is that there were several other epistles written to the non hebrew early christians who were probably not conversant with the hebrew practises. It is quite instructive that none of the gospel writers deemed it fit to mention tithing as a christian religious requirement. Infact we have it on church historical records that tithing was not introduced to Christianity till the sixth century AD by the catholic church even then it was tithes of agricultural produce. The false man made version of monetary tithes was not even practised till as recently as the nineteenth century and this was introduced by american charismatic churches.
|Re: Uncomfortable Questions For Tithe Preachers by PastorKun(m): 12:18pm On Apr 14, 2012|
You may also wish to attempt to answer one or more of the questions raised instead of re-gurgitating those worn out empty and dis credited arguments you are fond of repeating on this forum.
|Re: Uncomfortable Questions For Tithe Preachers by Snowwy: 12:24pm On Apr 14, 2012|
Pastor Kun: @snowwy
Thanks for the honour. I just knew you must have raised this with me in mind. Lol
The only people I see actually uncomfortable and unsettled about tithe are those against it rather than those who tithe.
Like I said, irrespective of when tithe was 're-introduced' into christianity...the main thing is that we have it stated clearly in the bible.
All I have shown you is from the bible as against a host of other things you have raised without any biblical backing.
Need I continue therefore since plainly you have claimed tithe is abolished? It means irrespective of what is said, you will say it is abolished.
The question to any eye should be why therefore asking questions on things you say have been 'abolished'?
Why does it unsettle you so much?
You may or may not answer tge salient questions I asked above.
As I said above there is no point continuing this conversation.
Cheers to all.
|Re: Uncomfortable Questions For Tithe Preachers by PastorKun(m): 12:36pm On Apr 14, 2012|
Why don't you attempt to answer one or some of the questions in the OP? Or are they to hot for you? Let's even forget the fact that tithing was abolished for the hebrews in hebrew 7. The big question is that was tithing included as part of the gospel preached to the gentiles which we are? Why should believers be going into Jewish history and starting adopting and adapting obsolete Jewish traditions that was never handed down to us as a part of the gospel of christ whom we profess. And why is it that in modern times to justify tithing scriptures have to be twisted to justify it. Please I really need straight forward answers from you and don't pick at straws.
|Re: Uncomfortable Questions For Tithe Preachers by PastorKun(m): 8:13am On Apr 15, 2012|
Abeg, I am still waiting for your answers ooooo! A lot of us need answers to this racket being perpetuated in the church by twisting God's word.
|Re: Uncomfortable Questions For Tithe Preachers by Image123(m): 9:02am On Apr 15, 2012|
^Stop pouting, you're no more a little boy.
|Re: Uncomfortable Questions For Tithe Preachers by PastorKun(m): 12:28pm On Apr 15, 2012|
Image123: ^Stop pouting, you're no more a little boy.
Answer the questions na! If not then you should be honourable enough to admit that the way tithing is preached and practised today is contrary to the scriptures. That is apart from the fact that tithing is not even relevant to true christianity.
|Re: Uncomfortable Questions For Tithe Preachers by Goshen360(m): 4:36pm On Apr 15, 2012|
@ Pastor Kun, Snowwy and Image123,
lol. Na wah for una o. Image123, e be like say u still want my knock for your head shey? lol. I told you no fight Kunle b4 o, last warning. Answer one of the kweshions or sharaaaap
|Re: Uncomfortable Questions For Tithe Preachers by PastorKun(m): 4:50pm On Apr 15, 2012|
Goshen360: @ Pastor Kun, Snowwy and Image123,
I tire for them oo! Despite all the noise and lies they post on this forum to justify the tithing scam, they can't even answer on single kweshion to establish their position. Isn't it obvious they know they are defending a false doctrine and the fallacy of their position would be exposed if they attempt to answer any of the kweshions
|Re: Uncomfortable Questions For Tithe Preachers by nuclearboy(m): 5:20pm On Apr 15, 2012|
Pathetic leaving the issue and questions untreated and going after the poster!
And vague allusions to the Bible "mentioning" a concept which you then cannot back up is an insult to reader's sensibilities
|Re: Uncomfortable Questions For Tithe Preachers by PastorKun(m): 6:40pm On Apr 15, 2012|
nuclearboy: Pathetic leaving the issue and questions untreated and going after the poster!
Bros your posts scarce for NL these days oo! I trust all is well.
|Re: Uncomfortable Questions For Tithe Preachers by Zikkyy(m): 8:09pm On Apr 15, 2012|
LOL @'promo' but bros, you have to agree the strategy makes a lot of sense
|Re: Uncomfortable Questions For Tithe Preachers by Image123(m): 8:49pm On Apr 15, 2012|
Goshen360: @ Pastor Kun, Snowwy and Image123,Don't mind me my brother, maybe it's the devil. But hopefully, i'll be gentle now, i no want knock o!
|Re: Uncomfortable Questions For Tithe Preachers by Goshen360(m): 8:51pm On Apr 15, 2012|
Abi na SLAP you want?
|Re: Uncomfortable Questions For Tithe Preachers by Image123(m): 8:55pm On Apr 15, 2012|
nuclearboy: Pathetic leaving the issue and questions untreated and going after the poster!Bros mi, i want to believe you're not remotely or directly referring to me in whatever shape or form? Many of the issues raised have been handled and knowing kunle, he'll just waste my time. To me, i don't want to waste time arguing back and forth on tithe, especially to the point where heat is generated and mud slinging, name calling.
|Re: Uncomfortable Questions For Tithe Preachers by nuclearboy(m): 10:12pm On Apr 15, 2012|
I'm always here but watching. My style is attrition & I realised I wasn't helping matters much cos the thieves just ignored issues & attacked my person!
You should know me well enough - its the CEC gangsters I referred to! However, this "tangentially" strikes you too. Leave Kunle out of this & face the questions!
ASSUME Goshen is the one posing these questions! You have always tried to be forthright - remove sentiments & personalities now and address these concerns!
And remain blessed
|Re: Uncomfortable Questions For Tithe Preachers by Image123(m): 10:49pm On Apr 15, 2012|
Goshen360: ^^^Haa, i'm not a winch for Jesus na. You're definitely are learning fine from the bishop, you go soon buy jet o.
|Re: Uncomfortable Questions For Tithe Preachers by PastorKun(m): 7:29am On Apr 16, 2012|
Bros attempt at least one kweshion na!
|Re: Uncomfortable Questions For Tithe Preachers by Enigma(m): 8:16am On Apr 16, 2012|
nuclearboy: . . .
Ọga Nuke, how now?
Sorry, I've not kept my word! I'm in town but I've been moving around a lot (even through West Africa). I'm still around for another week but with plenty of runnings yet.
However, if plans work out, I should be back in July to stay for around three months.
|Re: Uncomfortable Questions For Tithe Preachers by rastamouse: 8:37am On Apr 16, 2012|
I believe tithing is a personal stuff. I honestly think that tithing brings blessings (personal experience). Anytime I tithe, the difference it brings in my life, especially financial, is so glaring. When I choose not to, I also see the effects. Most of the time, I do my best to tithe.
It is true that some of our tithes end up funding so unpalatable lifestyle by some pastors but that is not supposed to be my problem. Tithing is not tax. I am not required to get the pastor to account for the tithe that I pay (at least the Bible did not give me the power to do so). However, I believe that GOD will be the right judge to demand some answers from those who abuse the money meant to be shared among the poor, widow and the pastor.
As I said, tithing is personal to me and I will continue to pay it!
Eunice Olawale's Daughter, Jessica: "What Mum Told Me A Night Before Her Death" / Lizzy Johnson Suleman: "They Were Photoshopped" Apostle Wife On Stephanie Oboto / Is It Wrong To Call The Name Of Jesus During Sex?
|Sections: politics (1) business autos (1) jobs (1) career education (1) romance computers phones travel sports fashion health |
religion celebs tv-movies music-radio literature webmasters programming techmarket
Nairaland - Copyright © 2005 - 2019 Oluwaseun Osewa. All rights reserved. See How To Advertise. 201