Nihilist:


Man City did not sign Pep for his style per se...even though he is the embodiment of Tiki Taka football.

Pep is just a collectible card in the larger set that Sheik Mansour wants.

Over the last 4 years, City have hired

A former Barca director of football (Txiki Gbegiri-stain)
A former Barca perfomance Analyst (Carles Planchart)
A former Barca fitness coach (Lorenzo Buenaventura)
Former Barca Coaches (Rodolfo Borrell, Domenec Torrent, Mikel Arteta)
A former Head of External Relations (Manel Estiarte)
2 Former Barca doctors ( Cugat and Mauri)

Then to head it all, they hired a former Barca VP ( Ferran Soriano) to oversee the club admin as CEO and Barca's most iconic Coach (Pep) to oversee matters on the pitch
3
Mansour doesn't just want Pep, He want's Barca. Infact, I'm sure Messi is very much in his sights.

This is what Nateevs is alluding to - and evidence definitely appears to support his position to an extent.

Where Nateevs and I differ is on the idea that short term failures are not seen to be too significant. I suspect that City are also prepared to go through the list of ex-Barca managers to get what they want if Pep doesn't sort things out very soon. I wont be surprised if Mansour goes to exhume Vilanova next sef.

Bro.

Because Pep brough along his coaching crew from Barca and Bayern combined does not mean City are obsessed with being Barca. It is normal for a coach to bring his trusted hands with him to every club. . .Managers do this all the time and its not 'Evidence' that man city want to be like barca. Y'all just reaching!

donjazet:
Many peeps have been undermining mourinhos successes with the tag cheque book manager despite his underdog triumphs, what the hell do we call this bald fraud? The fact that many of peps apostles agree that he has to spend at least another 100 million on his defense goes to show you who the cheque-book manager tag should be on.
You don't have to have the best players at all the positions! No!! You coach some to be better, you create a system that plays to their strength or you teach them to adapt to your system. Conte did that at juve, he is doing that at Chelsea, klop is doing that at Liverpool. I mean how do you concede four goals unreplied to a team that had 3 under 21s?? Holgate, Davies and look man
That is evidence of tactical inflexibility and shows his ineptitude in tactical changes and nuances.
Otamendi is not soo poor, kolarov is very decent and technical, stones just needs better guidance. City has a very rich squad and one of the most expensively assembled squad. FIND A SYSTEM THAT WORKS!!

Look at Chelsea, who could have thought Moses would be a very effective rightback? Or azpilicueta would be one of the best centrebacks despite his height? Or matic would also power a two man midfield despite being redundant in a 3 man midfield last season?

Look at Liverpool, who could have thought milner would be an effective left back, or firminho would effectively play the false 9 position? He has turned sluggish players like wijnaldum(spell check) and Anderson into power horses.
Goddammit pep, FIND THAT BALANCE!!! BE RESOURCEFUL!!! prove to your apostles that you are indeed the saviour of English football! No more excuses for these wobbles.

Pep could be blamed for his signings but the team's poor play isn't his fault! Just tell me what he could have done in the absence of Fernandinho, their most important player in the team? He had no option than to either put in a makeshift or deploy Fernando in his place in front of a defence that's already there to be taking. A defence of useless players such as Clichy, Stones, Otamendi and Sagna?

And yes, they are poor! Otamendi isn't different from the player Rashford consistently rubbished last season and Kolarov isn't even a defender to begin with. Even while Pellegrini was there, he hardly trusted Kolarov because he's not only too attack minded for a fullback but also, has poor positional discipline, he's not different from Liverpool's Moreno. Pray tell why haven't Klopp done wonder on Alberto Moreno? And now that Kolarov's ageing, he's become much more worse.

Not forgetting the useless Clichy. Or the ageing players whose prime is behind them already. Players such as Zabelata, Yaya. Etc.

And this is not about Milner moving to the fullback. We all know Milner is a limited but hardworking utility player who can play as a box-box CM in midfield or as a winger on the wing. Converting him into a fullback would always be on the card for him. And Widjanum has never been sluggish! Didn't you see him alongside De Jong at the WC or at Newcastle?

Anyway, for a player to be converted, he must have shown some trait in such roles! Take Azpli for example, we all know his attacking play and energetic runs are quite lacking as a fullback however his defensive skills is one of the best, hence the shift to the CB role.. Another is Tony Valencia, he's got solid defensive skills, can make good runs but has poor end product and it's no strange that he was eventually converted to a fullback.

You can't just convert a player for the sake it. You could probably try them once or twice in the role but have to immediately pull them off it as soon as they show no sign of adaptability in the said role. I believe and understand that Pep already went through this route but his players are just piss poor.

I think one thing he needs to do fast is to find a good option for Fernandinho in his role because he's their most important player in the team and also, he needs to reinstate Nolito back into the team, the guy's off the ball movement has done wonders for City this season but sadly, he's much of a nutcase as Fernandinho.

dyabman:
After all said and stated ,We've Murdered Ramdeuter at the end ..

2million of una no fit

lalaboi:


Bro.

Because Pep brough along his coaching crew from Barca and Bayern combined does not mean City are obsessed with being Barca. It is normal for a coach to bring his trusted hands with him to every club. . .Managers do this all the time and its not 'Evidence' that man city want to be like barca. Y'all just reaching!

Do you realize most of these people have been hired by City before they even got Pep?

For example Txiki Berigistan was hired by City in 2012 while Pep was on sabatical before he even accepted the Bayern job and 4yrs before coaching City

lalaboi:


Bro.

Because Pep brough along his coaching crew from Barca and Bayern combined does not mean City are obsessed with being Barca. It is normal for a coach to bring his trusted hands with him to every club. . .Managers do this all the time and its not 'Evidence' that man city want to be like barca. Y'all just reaching!

Have you ever heard of a Vice President of a club following a coach anywhere before?

City hire a former Barca head of admin as CEO. City hired a former Barca DOF as well....a full 4 years before Pep

This means that the guy who runs the club from top to bottom, and the guy who buys players for the club both have a very specific type of football philosophy guiding their decisions.

If it looks like a duck, quacks like a duck....

Raumdeuter, is mourinho one of the best coaches or not?

raumdeuter:


Do you realize most of these people have been hired by City before they even got Pep?

Pls name the 'most of them' and when they were hired.

bar the director of football, more than half were hired within months of confirming Pep to city,.

donjazet:
Rumdeuter, is mourinho one of the best coaches or not?

Mourinho is one of the best coaches around. How many coaches are in the world better than Mourinho?

In the PL for example only 2 coaches have ever won the CL and he is one of them

raumdeuter:


2million of una no fit

Did you notice we kept you quiet for 24hrs or more ?

diggz:
I am not buying this old age thingy being attached to Peps present predicament. While some may want us to believe it is due to certain factors like old fullbacks,Dms and useless CBs ,I dare say it is not!

How come some are using the age factor as an excuse for this manCity team? Why exactly? When the Pep in question was never known to rely on defenders. Pep as a matter of fact is well known to never defend. Same Pep have been hailed severally for beating teams to stupor in la Liga, UCL and co. with a certain barca team attacking all through with makeshift or no defends.

What is different now? Why is having old defenders ,Dms Or useless CBs now the excuse? Or has Pep been known for creating a beast out of defenders..... Or doing a number by defending and not attacking?

It is on record according to claims made by certain individuals, Pep drove away all the main stars in barca in 2008 infused certain players into the senior team and created a beast out of those individuals. Credit was given to him for making Messi, Xavi, busquet, iniesta, pedro and co.... I am yet to see were he made a beast out of several defenders in that barca. I am yet to see were anyone praised Pep for being pragmatic or being a great organizer of his defense line or having the skill set to create a beast or a monster out of defenders. Why make the excuse now? And ,why can't he create a new busquet for manCity or a pedro or Messi or iniesta or pique etc? Why!!!!?

I am sure a smart man like raumdeuter will possibly come up here to quickly point out the number of 30plus players in the city team. So I also brought out a list for barca without players like Henry ,Eto, and co.

Please it is on record I never agreed with raumdeuter before Pep took over that this manCity is filled with old players. And ,I am still not agreeing now. Funny part is, immediately Pep started beating teams at the beginning of the season,all talk of 30+ plus players disappeared. The only thing we read and heard was how good a manager Genius Pep is, and how he was going to win the league by December. So what has changed since then?

Please, enuff of all the excuses!!! If he fails come season end, he should hold his 'L' strong!! Except he goes on to do better in the coming seasons, he will be remembered as a fraudiola and not as a guadiola.

Pep never relied on his defenders? Even in Pep's best possession based team, he still has the best defenders in it. Players such as Puyol, Abidal, Alves etc were rock!

Even in the 2 squads you posted, Pep has 6 players over 30 in his Barca squad but 11-12 players of that in his City's squad and you claim there's no difference?

Everyone and his dogs knows City's defence has always collapsed without Kompany.. That's to show how shite that defence is. So how is it any different under Pep, especially when you consider the midfield in front is declining and their second best solid defender (Zabeleta) apart from Kompany is ageing as well?

Blame Pep all you can for his failure in the window but that team is rubbish! That team doesn't even have a defence as well as a GK and you call it a team? Not forgetting the fact that their most important player, Fernandinho is suspended! Remember that!

lalaboi:
Pls name the 'most of them' and when they were hired.

bar the director of football, more than half were hired within months of confirming Pep to city,.

Ferran Soriano the CEO was hired by City 4yrs before Pep

After the coach the director of football is the most important person, He is responsible for the football philosophy and pursuing talents

Nihilist:


Have you ever heard of a Vice President of a club following a coach anywhere before?

City hire a former Barca head of admin as CEO. City hired a former Barca DOF as well....a full 4 years before Pep

This means that the guy who runs the club from top to bottom, and the guy who buys players for the club both have a very specific type of football philosophy guiding their decisions.

If it looks like a duck, quacks like a duck....

A full 4 years you say abi?

City's transfers in the last 3 years before pep had players like Mangala, Clichy, Fernando, Kolarov, Jesus Navas.

This only just yamayama'd your theories (and nateevs) that City had no players to suit pep style despite the fact that they had ex Barcelona personnel running the club and handling transfers.

dyabman:
Did you notice we kept you quiet for 24hrs or more ?

You are not saying anything that concerns me, when it concerned me, you saw me

lalaboi:


C'mon Nateevs! Over the past few months, all i do here is drop my comments and go or just continue reading along. Believe me, it was directed at not only you, but you seem to have caught the sub and heck i kuku know Russel Peters as i used to jam him on netflix back then.

Its completely illogical to say Man City hired Pep not to bring success but mainly because of his style. . .Completely Disagree! If anything, his successful days at the 2 previous clubs he managed is a bigger criteria than style. I know, it sounds like we are saying the same thing but no. Success > Style which is why coaches like mourinho/Ancelloti can get any jobs out there because they have done it in 3 of the 4 major leagues in the Europe! THEY DIDN'T NEED 11 NEW PLAYERS to do this.

Anyone that hires pep knows he's not staying there for long as he loses interest that quick. Even after he's gone, do you think the club will want to continue with his 'style'? How is Bayern faring without him now? Did they continue with his 'style? off course not, It was binned the minute they hired another manager. I cannot say the same about Barcelona because they eat drink and shiit that style of play from the academy.
Case in point - Barely a year into the City job he's talking about retiring. I can bet my saving on it, He won't do any longer than his previous spells at Bayern and Barca. so what is the point of hiring him if not to win immediately (Priority)

I also find it distasteful that you would rate a manager who needs at least 11 new signings (who won't come cheap) to conquer English football. There is even no gaurantee that if he gets those 11, he will succeed. he bought 5 new players with 180mil, 2 have been utter rubbish, 1 costs 42million and can't even start regularly, another is injury prone and despite knowing this he still bought him injured. If Pep cant be blamed for assembling this team, i wonder who we go blame. Emanalo?

Summary! Pep does not need 11 new players to play his style at City! his style is simply not working in the premier league. C'es fini

You see? This is the difference between both sides of the arguments. You ahve asked all the questions you want to hear - The comfortable ones. I didn't see you ask, what happens if he gets all he needs and then goes on to dominate?

The truth is, your mind surpresses that question and makes you think it is not possible. The truth however is not that it isn't, it that you desperately don't want it to be true.



I on the other hand, have asked both and my response thus: If he gets what he needs and phucks it up, then he will be forever known as an actor, spared by the brilliance of Messi. However, if the converse scenario occurs, he will be legendary as I suspect he will. I just lean on the side of facts, he has reproduced it where he has gone and been successful with it. Why should I join the train of thinking his style doesn't work in the PL when I can clearly see that Fernandinho is no Xavi?




And I don't think you understand the hiring part very well. You do realise that most of those peops have been hired before they got Pep right? Now that's another fact your mind is trying to surpress.


Face it Lalaboi, he was hired because of his style.

raumdeuter:


Ferran Soriano the CEO was hired by City 4yrs before Pep

After the coach the director of football is the most important person, He is responsible for the football philosophy and pursuing talents

See what i said to Nihilist above. . He ran the club and pursued talents that fits Barca/Pep style. Why are we now hearing that Pep need 11 players to succeed?

Why do you think Pep is currently failing. I Want to know what you think?

lalaboi

These are articles years before Pep landed in City

Barça's sporting director was of course Txiki Begiristain, now at the Etihad, and Laporta's vice-president in charge of economic affairs was Ferran Soriano, now City's chief executive officer. The first call came in December 2011. Soriano met Sheikh Mansour bin Zayed al-Nahyan and Khaldoon al-Mubarak in Abu Dhabi but with his company, Spanair, in a process of liquidation, he declined. When he eventually agreed in summer 2012, one of his first calls was to Begiristain. Now comes a blast from the recent past. "I'd have preferred a different opponent," Begiristain said after the Champions League draw, "but I'm happy to see old friends again."

Yet Sheikh Mansour did see in Barcelona's model something that dovetailed with his vision and goes beyond the football: from international expansion to the opening of new markets, from youth development to revenue creation there are parallels. It may be over-simplistic, but here there's a temptation to say that City, like Barcelona, want to be likeable; to avoid being seen just as arrivistes.

https://www.theguardian.com/football/blog/2014/feb/17/how-manchester-city-embraced-the-barcelona-blueprint

Meaning as at when Pep was in Barcelona and not even knowing he will leave Barca, City has been copying the Barca model

lalaboi:
See what i said to Nihilist above. . He ran the club and pursued talents that fits Barca/Pep style. Why are we now hearing that Pep need 11 players to succeed?

Why do you think Pep is currently failing. I Want to know what you think?

You realize they had another coach in that time who has demands and the type of players he wants

lalaboi:


See what i said to Nihilist above. . He ran the club and pursued talents that fits Barca/Pep style. Why are we now hearing that Pep need 11 players to succeed?

Why do you think Pep is currently failing. I Want to know what you think?

1. What they are building there requires time. Never happens overnight. Case in point, La Masia. The point is to build from ground up. It doesn't matter that he's been there for 4 years.

2. The actuator is actually Pep. The fact that Pep mentins they need 11 player way before he joined renders this discuss already obsolete. Why can't we wait and see before we jump to conclusion? What is the urgent need to be right, right now?

nateevs:



You see? This is the difference between both sides of the arguments. You ahve asked all the questions you want to hear - The comfortable ones. I didn't see you ask, what happens if he gets all he needs and then goes on to dominate?

The truth is, your mind surpresses that question and makes you think it is not possible. The truth however is not that it isn't, it that you desperately don't want it to be true.



I on the other hand, have asked both and my response thus: If he gets what he needs and phucks it up, then he will be forever known as an actor, spared by the brilliance of Messi. However, if the converse scenario occurs, he will be legendary as I suspect he will. I just lean on the side of facts, he has reproduced it where he has gone and been successful with it. Why should I join the train of thinking his style doesn't work in the PL when I can clearly see that Fernandinho is no Xavi?




And I don't think you understand the hiring part very well. You do realise that most of those peops have been hired before they got Pep right? Now that's another fact your mind is trying to surpress.


Face it Lalaboi, he was hired because of his style.

None of what you said above is convincing enough to make anyone bar yourself that he was hired for style. After him what next? who is the next Pep? There isnt!

But why should we give Pep what he wants to show that he is the all conquering messaih coach of football? WHY WHY WHY? Who that fudge is he? Other coaches dont demand such and they win trophies. Who da fudge is he?

Arguing on NL is exhausting jare. Going back to my reading mode.

Adios!

raumdeuter:


Mourinho is one of the best coaches around. How many coaches are in the world better than Mourinho?

In the PL for example only 2 coaches have ever won the CL and he is one of them

So why the defiant negativity whenever his alluded successes are proclaimed If you see him as one of the best, why do you always scorn at his appraisal?

donjazet:


So why the defiant negativity whenever his alluded successes are proclaimed If you see him as one of the best, why do you always scorn at his appraisal?

Because his promoters tend to push his narrative beyond what he actually is

You wont see me arguing that Wenger, Allardyce Labbadia or Pulis are better than Mourinho

Its only when his promoters now atempt to push him as better than people like Guardiola or Ancelotti

Just like you wont see me pushing that Bolasie, Ross Barkley, Zaha Snodgrass are better than Hazard

Until they start comparing Hazard to his superiors like Neymar

lalaboi:


None of what you said above is convincing enough to make anyone bar yourself that he was hired for style. After him what next? who is the next Pep? There isnt!

But why should we give Pep what he wants to show that he is the all conquering messaih coach of football? WHY WHY WHY? Who that fudge is he? Other coaches dont demand such and they win trophies. Who da fudge is he?

Arguing on NL is exhausting jare. Going back to my reading mode.

Adios!

It's indeed exhausting my broda, especially when one decides his opinion reigns supreme and wouldn't budge no matter what. Make I join you for reading mode jare

lalaboi:


A full 4 years you say abi?

City's transfers in the last 3 years before pep had players like Mangala, Clichy, Fernando, Kolarov, Jesus Navas.

This only just yamayama'd your theories (and nateevs) that City had no players to suit pep style despite the fact that they had ex Barcelona personnel running the club and handling transfers.

I don't think you understand that that City has no pedigree. City is like a Chinese Bubble in the EPL. They've been throwing a lot money around to anybody that would take it, and that's not really going to change anytime soon. That's their main pull - Money, they have have even less history than Us

But if you look at the type of players they've been buying, there has been a particular style of player they've gone for recently - Technical players like KDB, Sterling, Fernandinho, Jovetic etc. Man City academy is now the La Masia of England. Even Manyoo's captain enrolled his son there.

I don't think it's a coincidence that the guy who turned down Mourinho and hired Pep at Barca in 2008 is now the CEO of Pep's current club. You might think so. I don't.

donjazet:
@ Nateevs, the irony we all have our opinions. You being pompous and arrogant in defense of your opinion is what marvels me. I don't know what makes you think your opinion is superior to mine if not sheer arrogance and a bloated ego.
I don't think you have ever coached primary school pupils not to talk of an amateur local league, so one can only wonder what makes you think you know more than many others in football related issues.

Alhaji Don Jazzy, you will like to calm down. E be like say understanding haf lost on you.

If you understand the naunce of the debate, you will see I am the open one, who has no allegiance to Pep and leaning on the side of history and facts. A Manager who is proven and a serial winner in the game, is telling me he needs 11 players to actuate his style. Who am I to disagree?


You on the other hand, who's never managed a footballer, is saying, NO, Pep is lying. And you are calling me the pompous and arrogant one? How?

I don't make enemies on here. Let's keep it friendly and civil.

CONTEDDICTED:
You can't defend Pep

Inherited the best, spent the most.....

After beating West Ham 5-0,the proud man said he knows the EPL code until Everton changed the password

The best attacking talents aren't scoring goals so don't tell me it's about the defence


Conte has improved Hazard, Costa, Pedro, Luis, A pic, Moses
Klopp has improved Coutinho, Firmino, Can, Clyne
Mourinho has improved Rojo, Jones, Valencia, Herrera

Please name one player that Pep has improved at City?? Little wonder the baldinho wanted 11 new players for Chelsea ,he can't make players better

Is Nateevs going to tell me that as at August Rojo, Jones and Darmian were better than Mangala, Demichelis,Stones and Sagna

Klopp is killing it with Klavan,Lovren and Lucas.... Even Miller na LB

There's nothing you can improve in declining ageing players! He's improved Sterling though..

And nope, Mourinho didn't improve Jones nor Valencia. Jones was good until his injuries woes and Valencia has always done his things and he got back his position from Darmain, even Rojo was a solid CB in his first season under Van Gaal until he was moved to a LB role! Only Herrera who's left the creativity he was known to have to become a workhorse could be argued to have improved. Why has Mourinho not improved Depay, Darmian, Morgan?

And who told you Emre Can has improved under Klopp? Why has Klopp failed to improve Sturidge, Moreno or the ageing Lucas?

Why has Conte failed to improve Ivanovic, Terry?

Anyway, the listed players you claimed to have improved are not only still young but has always been solid decent players! Is it Costa, Hazard, Pedro, Coutinho, Firmino that aint good players to begin with, regardless of what happened to them in the previous season? Yet you had to compare them to the ageing Yaya, Clichy, Zab, Kolarov, Bravo, the useless Stones etc? BTW, Firmino has been just decent, nothing special about him!

The fact is if a team is performing well enough, even the decent ones will begin to pull in their weight.

lalaboi:


None of what you said above is convincing enough to make anyone bar yourself that he was hired for style. After him what next? who is the next Pep? There isnt!

But why should we give Pep what he wants to show that he is the all conquering messaih coach of football? WHY WHY WHY? Who that fudge is he? Other coaches dont demand such and they win trophies. Who da fudge is he?

Arguing on NL is exhausting jare. Going back to my reading mode.

Adios!

Therein lies the problem. Who the "fudge" is he? There is more than just genuine intellectual debate to this whole saga. Hatred haf enter from backyard. Those who hired him, who were in the same room on the day he declared that City need 11 players, have gone ahead and hired him regardless. And you are asking who is to ask?

YOu would have walked away at that point. Many others on here would have. But they didn't. Yet you still question why he was hired.

lalaboi:
Wow.. . .I am amazed.

Some guys here are quick to point out that Mourinho cannot achieve without spending but then make a case for Pep needing 11 new players to succeed.

Really?? A supposedly 'world' class' manager needs a complete overhaul of a team that won the league just 3 years before and have spent millions on upgrade. . Are we playing football manager

Make una suffery suffery dey talk some things o.

Mourinho did spend though!

I don't know what would have become of my team without Ibra! Even Pogba has put in some good effort in the area of creativity regardless of his brain farts, limited midfield control and positional discipline.

I said it before the season started and will repeat that Mourinho spent wisely than Pep!

BTW, every coach needs some quality in his team regardless of how good of a tactician he is. The only thing that baffles me is why Pep hasn't brought in some City's kids into the first team after seeing how useless their ageing adults are. IIRC, Aleix Garcia and their teenage RB looked solid against us (United) in the carling cup.

Lalaboi even if you disbelieve me, or nateevs, or the hiring pattern...will you disbelieve the former Barca President too?

This was Sandro Rosell, then President of Barca in 2013:

There have been some offensive approaches from City, at all levels of the structure of the club, but no one wants to go.
'They wanted to fish here, but there were no fish left. We're talking about people at all levels of the Barca structure, not just players. Their attempts have been unsuccessful, though, as our employees are happy here.

Mind you, this was roughly 3 years before Pep. They were aggressively poaching Barca staff to the point where the President had to shout 'Ah an Kilode'

Don't dull it. City WANT Barca.

This Donald Trump speech na wa o.

I have never heard so many lies in Presidential speech before.

nateevs:


Alhaji Don Jazzy, you will like to calm down. E be like say understanding haf lost on you.
You on the other hand, who's never managed a footballer, is saying, NO, Pep is lying. And you are calling me the pompous and arrogant one? How?
I don't make enemies on here. Let's keep it friendly and civil.

That moment Nateevs throws silent shades and shots and then says let's be civil...

Ibime:
This Donald Trump speech na wa o.

I have never heard so many lies in Presidential speech before.

Basically speaking political language

raumdeuter:


Basically speaking political language

I want to see how he will bring those factory jobs back. Anyway, we live in a post-truth world.