raumdeuter:


Then Hazard and co have to up their scoring game or be replaced. Depending on one star striker to do the bulk of the scoring is risky like when Zlatan came down with injuries? Or when your main striker is marked out.

Chelsea have deployed a method where the 3 guys have less defensive worries then they should pay back with goals across board or get sold

Thats why I keep hammering that every attacking player like Hazard have to be delivering high numbers of goals and assists not just forming activity all over the field

I concur...

pamcode:
lol my hands no dey bros but I sincerely hope Morata comes good for Us if not for anything but for the numerous rival fans waiting to tear him apart.

No.no no!! We no go collect your resignation from the first touch camp no bribe us...lol.

Omo...I dey fast and pray for am to come good too o! Cuz it will be too painful to see 70mil go to waste just like that.

raumdeuter:


If Hidden Hazard cannot deliver more than Josh King number of goals then why is he the star man and highest earner? Primary and sole duty is subjective. Costa didn't top goal scorers chart last season even didn't make top 3 yet Chelsea won the league. Madrid won their league Benzema scored 11 goals.

Players like Willian need to contribute more than the usual 5-7 goals a season as attackers, Same with Hidden Hazard

There are players like Costa who can stand alone upfront and battle defenders on his own, create chances out of nothing and win games, If you cant find that type of man then you have to find others options of winning games

na true you talk.

timbros:


I'm no archaeologist but I'm sure Airmark can dig out your #ConteOut hashtag in this very thread if he wants to dig. Ibime is good in digging too.

I didn't say I didn't say Conte Out. I'm only making a distinction about when I wanted him out. Dayos statement implies I never wanted him from the start. That is not the case.

nateevs:



So Morata has done the unseen right? Like Messi never ballooned a chance unmarked? What is the real point here?

In another argument, I am sure you will be arguing that Morata did not expect that the last Arsenal defender wouldn't touch that ball.
I am surprised no one has talked about this as a possibility. The shock is not that he ballooned the chance. For me, the shock was that the ball reached him. No one in that position would have thought it.


I cannot help but wonder what the consistent criticism of Morata is about, without a decent sample of empirical/visual evidence of him being crap, in a Chelsea shirt.

Can someone please help with coming up with a new way of saying "Why the phuck can we not give him a chance......a decent run at the very least, before we start slaughtering him?"


Jeez!

Lukaku that had been scoring hundred + goals was never given a chance because his touch starts from number 2.

First touch better deliver first time bruh. I told you I would do this last year. Don't act surprised when a petty mu'fucka act petty...

Oasis007:




First Touch and Team Play?! LOL!
This is the funniest Post I read on this Thread so far.

You ain't after goals scoring, rather first Tough and Team Play?!

LMAO!

Bekiafu . Of course goal scoring has to be there, but as the main thing is fluidity of the team and also the point of Discussion that why goal scoring was omitted. I hope it dosent take long for him to start scoring goals.

nateevs:



So Morata has done the unseen right? Like Messi never ballooned a chance unmarked? What is the real point here?

In another argument, I am sure you will be arguing that Morata did not expect that the last Arsenal defender wouldn't touch that ball.
I am surprised no one has talked about this as a possibility. The shock is not that he ballooned the chance. For me, the shock was that the ball reached him. No one in that position would have thought it.


I cannot help but wonder what the consistent criticism of Morata is about, without a decent sample of empirical/visual evidence of him being crap, in a Chelsea shirt.

Can someone please help with coming up with a new way of saying "Why the phuck can we not give him a chance......a decent run at the very least, before we start slaughtering him?"


Jeez!

Maybe this might help.!
Morata continues to work away at his game quietly, and while some of his early season performances drew ire from some Juve fans who baulked at the price their club paid for the starlet, he has shown glimpses of a player worth far more than what the club paid for him. Let’s face it though, his stats are ELITE.

Source: http://outsideoftheboot.com/2015/02/16/alvaro-morata-juventus-future/

Or not, it might just be a loaded gun for who cares

airmark:
To you hazard stepping up, is about scoring alone as if he was the striker that replaced costa, later you will be adding goals and assists together to rate players. In the absence of costa in that season, hazard was instrumental to a point shared at city, with an assist. A goal in a 2-1 victory away to villa, assist for that lone goal victory at qpr, the winning goal against manchester utd, the lone goal against crystal palace. Take away his influence as a winger in those matches, city would have won the league before costa returned.

However, hazard cant guarantee higher numbers of goals when he returns from injury, the striker we bought for 70m should.

SO what is the job of an attacker is he isnt scoring or assisting? How is he supposed to step up if he isnt scoring or assisting

Benzema whose team won the CL back to back and la liga how many goals does he score? The fluidity of a system where everyone scores and no one is rigid is what some coaches try

Often times in Madrid Ronaldo that started on the left will be in the middle Benz on the right and Bale on the left. That drags defenders all over and makes a team harder to mark out

If you were clamoring for Lukaku maybe it would have made some iorta of sense but for Belloti, the new sensation from the league that gave Immobile, Pastore, Lavezzi Giacherini, Osvaldo, Borini, Cuadrado, Zaza. The same Belloti who no one knew this time last season for 100M

nateevs:



You are the one who is being rigid in your analysis. You are trying to criticise the alternate viewpoint without full grasp of the underlying principles.

This is it. Because the whole concept of this is that in a fluid system, no one gets marked out. And that's where your analysis falls down.

Marking-out only happens when you play a system that is heavily reliant on a single outlet. In a fluid system, marking-out becomes redundant upon initiation because everyone utilises everyone else's attributes to be equally dangerous.

That's the whole point.

Well said. Like I said most are pushing an agenda because their favoured striker didnt get signed

[img]https:///media/8-06-2017/5C5s3e.gif[/img]

This is the HUGE chance that Morata is getting roasted for. He looked he didnt expect the ball to get to him

raumdeuter:
[img]https:///media/8-06-2017/5C5s3e.gif[/img]

This is the HUGE chance that Morata is getting roasted for. He looked he didnt expect the ball to get to him

I thought he would have trapped it with first touch sha.

Plus he called for the ball sef.

Nihilstjnr:
I thought he would have trapped it with first touch sha.

Plus he called for the ball sef.

The Arsenal defender intervention probably messed up his timing

nateevs:



You are the one who is being rigid in your analysis. You are trying to criticise the alternate viewpoint without full grasp of the underlying principles.

This is it. Because the whole concept of this is that in a fluid system, no one gets marked out. And that's where your analysis falls down.

Marking-out only happens when you play a system that is heavily reliant on a single outlet. In a fluid system, marking-out becomes redundant upon initiation because everyone utilises everyone else's attributes to be equally dangerous.

That's the whole point.

There is nothing like fluid system when you are playing against 11 players defending deeply against your team, to grind out result. Costa had to bully martins indi to score, against a stubborn stoke. When chelsea played against barca in 2012, fluid system got them to nowhere against a defensive chelsea. Their striker was nowhere to be found.

Hazard was successfully marked out by herrera and the team went to sleep. Do you think morata would have freed hazard from herrera's shackles with his weak ball protection? So, saying no one can be marked out in conte's system is invalid.

Teams dont even need to double up on morata, he is there for the taking.

raumdeuter:


The Arsenal defender intervention probably messed up his timing

That's a weakness. All strikers are trained to anticipate whenever they are in the box, not forgetting that he called for the ball. Most sharp strikers would deal with that chance well. Cahill and ivanovic might have done better self.

raumdeuter:
[img]https:///media/8-06-2017/5C5s3e.gif[/img]

This is the HUGE chance that Morata is getting roasted for. He looked he didnt expect the ball to get to him

Nope dayo....don't even go there. Don't reduce out stand to a single game afterall we the non believers of morata actually want him to succeed,we are presently praying and fasting even with 70mil paid for him to succeed, plus a season for him to convert us into believers.

Don't mistake today's post for us condemning him yet as we are willing to wait till the end of the season to pass judgement.

airmark:


There is nothing like fluid system when you are playing against 11 players defending deeply against your team, to grind out result. Costa had to bully martins indi to score, against a stubborn stoke. When chelsea played against barca in 2012, fluid system got them to nowhere against a defensive chelsea. Their striker was nowhere to be found.

Hazard was successfully marked out by herrera and the team went to sleep. Do you think morata would have freed hazard from herrera's shackles with his weak ball protection? So, saying no one can be marked out in conte's system is invalid.

Teams dont even need to double up on morata, he is there for the taking.

Maybe because there was no 'striker' for Barcelona.

I do recall correctly, the point of buying Morata is to make Hazard the focal point of attack.

The way real Madrid play with Ronaldo at the left and Benzema at the center.

But with Hazard injured, I doubt that will work and by the time he gets back and they click it might be January

raumdeuter:
[img]https:///media/8-06-2017/5C5s3e.gif[/img]

This is the HUGE chance that Morata is getting roasted for. He looked he didnt expect the ball to get to him

Me thinks he was trying to square play the fellow in the middle

diggz:


Nope dayo....don't even go there. Don't reduce out stand to a single game afterall we the non believers of morata actually want him to succeed,we are presently praying and fasting even with 70mil paid for him to succeed, plus a season for him to convert us into believers.

Don't mistake today's post for us condemning him yet as we are willing to wait till the end of the season to pass judgement.

So how many games has this condemnation of Morata been based on?

airmark:
There is nothing like fluid system when you are playing against 11 players defending deeply against your team, to grind out result. Costa had to bully martins indi to score, against a stubborn stoke. When chelsea played against barca in 2012, fluid system got them to nowhere against a defensive chelsea. Their striker was nowhere to be found.
Hazard was successfully marked out by herrera and the team went to sleep. Do you think morata would have freed hazard from herrera's shackles with his weak ball protection? So, saying no one can be marked out in conte's system is invalid.

Teams dont even need to double up on morata, he is there for the taking.

Barcas fluid system won them 4 CL in 10yrs if thats not success then tell me what is success.

airmark:


That's a weakness. All strikers are trained to anticipate whenever they are in the box, not forgetting that he called for the ball. Most sharp strikers would deal with that chance well. Cahill and ivanovic might have done better self.

I would like to see similar case scenarios, strikers who get a similar pass at that position and do better... in Gif

raumdeuter:
[img]https:///media/8-06-2017/5C5s3e.gif[/img]

This is the HUGE chance that Morata is getting roasted for. He looked he didnt expect the ball to get to him

He should have @least shot the ball closer to the post, seemed like he slipped sha

airmark:
That's a weakness. All strikers are trained to anticipate whenever they are in the box, not forgetting that he called for the ball. Most sharp strikers would deal with that chance well. Cahill and ivanovic might have done better self.

There are many instances every match where a defenders leg swing put off the timing of strikers.

I am sure this guy below too has that weakness for him to to score a chance even easier than Moratas

[img]http:///media/8-08-2017/6KczgK.gif[/img]

lordfalcao:
I concur...

You lordfalcao....were you not here misinterpreting everything kesh said about Contes position few days ago over his frustrations with our transfer dealings?

Maybe u will provide money for us to buy new players with, bcuz I don't know which of the forwards you expect to start delivering high numbers that they have never done before.

BlueAngel444:


I would like to see similar case scenarios, strikers who get a similar pass at that position and do better... in Gif

Is this close enough
[img]http:///media/8-08-2017/6KczgK.gif[/img]
or this
[img]http:///media/8-08-2017/UMQwWf.gif[/img]

There should be a book compilation on Morata and first touch from this thread.

raumdeuter:


So how many games has this condemnation of Morata been based on?

No one is condemning him yet. We are willing to wait till the end of the season before we can decide if he failed or not.

pamcode:
Bekiafu . Of course goal scoring has to be there, but as the main thing is fluidity of the team and also the point of Discussion that why goal scoring was omitted. I hope it dosent take long for him to start scoring goals.

When United was after him, I rushed to YouTube to burn lots of Data on his Video Clips and I was impressed and satisfied.

Blues Dudes need to calm down and give him a Chance. He's definitely a good Striker, and hopefully gonna prove many Doubters wrong.

airmark:


There is nothing like fluid system when you are playing against 11 players defending deeply against your team, to grind out result. Costa had to bully martins indi to score, against a stubborn stoke. When chelsea played against barca in 2012, fluid system got them to nowhere against a defensive chelsea. Their striker was nowhere to be found.

Hazard was successfully marked out by herrera and the team went to sleep. Do you think morata would have freed hazard from herrera's shackles with his weak ball protection? So, saying no one can be marked out in conte's system is invalid.

Teams dont even need to double up on morata, he is there for the taking.

Again, using single events/wrong examples to back up a point.

That Chelsea parked the bus on the night and Barca failed to score, is not enough empirical evidence to state boldly, that there is no such thing as fluid system. If that game is played 10 times over, Barca will probably win 8 times. So where is your analysis coming from, let alone being boldly proclaimed?



You are claiming that Morata will not step up in the event of Hazard being marked out in a game, because he (Morata), has weak ball protection. In the same post, you reminding us about Costa's abilities but conveniently leaving out the fact that Costa was playing in the same game that Hazard was being man-marked and marked out. Strangely enough, it seemed Costa's ball-holding/rentention skills could not bail out Hazard either. So is ball-holding/lack of it, the problem? No it is not. (As long as it is a stick with which to beat Morata, it become accepted).

You are clearly contradicting yourself. And that's why I stated previously, that you don't understand the fundamental principles of a fluid system. I am now adding to that, the fact that you don't understand the fundamental principle of ball-holding.

Simply put. In a fluid system, man-marking Hazard does not even start in the first place because others are running into the channels and using their "first touch" football skills to create unseen spaces behind defenders - basically touching and moving - hereby increasing goal-scoring chances. You cannot hold down/man-mark one player, because no one is "holding the ball" for more than 2 seconds. Opposition teams are able to mark out the star guy, because the others are busy "ball-holding" and creating no real harm. Jose Mourinho knows this. And that's why he employed this.


You need to understand the underlying principle, if not, you keep contradicting yourself.

To cut short the 6 pointless hours of arguing about Morata. The loss against arsenal and the way the whole teamed played at some points in the game were just sad to watch (Morata just an unlucky fellow, bad game he couldn't make better simple) painful infact.

Then the whole £70m (unofficial amount, initial £58m) would you have preferred Chelsea buying Lukaku for £100m (forgot those malaria fans first, they would always be trolls)

Would you risk paying £100m for Lukaku (forget the salary now)

Manchester United did 1 wise thing, make people believe Lukaku is worth £75m not to repeat what happened with pogba. (chelsea's mistake not giving an official price)

If Lukaku scores against Chelsea it won't hurt as when Rooney scores against manU,(they paid him to everton)


If Lukaku is worth £100m then Morata is worth £70m ( but lacazette was just £53m)

raumdeuter:

Is this close enough
[img]http:///media/8-08-2017/6KczgK.gif[/img]
or this
[img]http:///media/8-08-2017/UMQwWf.gif[/img]

Even Ronaldo has the weakness.