JeSoul: Sorry Rastamouse but topics like these are generally not allowed.

But I see Logicboy is enjoying the popularity, so I'll let him make the call on this one. Logicboy, you want the thread left?

It is Okay. Rastamouse is just surprised that I left christianity after 22 years. He is afraid that some will follow my example and leave christianity

JeSoul: Sorry Rastamouse but topics like these are generally not allowed.

But I see Logicboy is enjoying the popularity, so I'll let him make the call on this one. Logicboy, you want the thread left?

Sorry JeSoul. I understand perfectly...thanks

rastamouse:

Sorry JeSoul. I understand perfectly...thanks

No problem my brother, Logicboy says its okay so pls carry on.

logicboy: It is Okay. Rastamouse is just surprised that I left christianity after 22 years. He is afraid that some will follow my example and leave christianity

Thanks for being a good sport dude. I'd be very interested to see what your definition & understanding is of a "Christian". I tried unsuccessfully to pull this out of you a few threads ago.

logicboy:


It is Okay. Rastamouse is just surprised that I left christianity after 22 years. He is afraid that some will follow my example and leave christianity

I completely agree with you. Why will you throw away 22 years of the best part of your life? Do you care to tell me?

.

Logic boy, sorry I deleted your last post by accident

Hmm... anybody notice any glitches with posting today? I'm seeing duplicate posts...

JeSoul: Logic boy, sorry I deleted your last post by accident

I pray that he doesn't chew you on this

^nah he's a aight guy. I read it and tried to reply, instead clicked the wrong button. Then NL2 glitched out and took me back to my post screwing it up even more.

---

@Logicboy, I read the post.

On Jesus being God - you'll find that many christians do not even fully agree on that.

On being a follower of Christ - perfect answer.

Might I ask what you personally think about the life of Jesus Christ? Not whether you belive it, but what you think about the morals of the stories recorded in the gospels. Cheers.

Finally, logicboy gets to spill the beans...
hmmmph.. make i lie down watch movie..
[img]http://woahnigeria.files./2011/06/block.jpg[/img]

rastamouse:

I completely agree with you. Why will you throw away 22 years of the best part of your life? Do you care to tell me?

I was a catholic but have always been a bit secular. I grew up watching MTV and Cartoons. I also made fun of protestant churches with their fake miracles and speaking in tongues.

When I moved to the UK, I became more secular. I found it a waste of time to go to church during winter. Freezing my azz off to go to church on sunday when I can watch premiership football.


However I was still a christian then. As someone that likes to get facts and argue, I started reading about the major wars and civilization. I read about slavery, Roman empire, medieval Britain etc.

The fateful day came when I was racially abused by an atheist white man, who said that "blacks are stupid because they are accept a religion that enslaved their people and they still like the image of a white Jesus; It is a curse to be black". Normally, as a London black boy, there are two ways of dealing with racists; beating sense into the racist or logically exposing the fallacious argument supporting racism. However, I was rooted to the spot. The part about slavery was right. The racist was mostly wrong but there was an element of truth. We had statues of a white Jesus in the 3 biggest catholic churches in Lagos.


I went home and started reading on "christianity and slavery".....that was the beginning of my alter-ego; logicboy. Logic became my Master.

Christianity is a foriegn religion to Nigeria and is no less of a fairytale than Shango or Ogun or thor.

JeSoul: No problem my brother, Logicboy says its okay so pls carry on.

Thanks for being a good sport dude. I'd be very interested to see what your definition & understanding is of a "Christian". I tried unsuccessfully to pull this out of you a few threads ago.

A christian is someone who believes that Jesus is God; a follower of christ.

You dont have to go to church to be a christian

logicboy:


I was a catholic but have always been a bit secular. I grew up watching MTV and Cartoons. I also made fun of protestant churches with their fake miracles and speaking in tongues.

When I moved to the UK, I became more secular. I found it a waste of time to go to church during winter. Freezing my azz off to go to church on sunday when I can watch premiership football.


However I was still a christian then. As someone that likes to get facts and argue, I started reading about the major wars and civilization. I read about slavery, Roman empire, medieval Britain etc.

The fateful day came when I was racially abused by an atheist white man, who said that "blacks are stupid because they are accept a religion that enslaved their people and they still like the image of a white Jesus; It is a curse to be black". Normally, as a London black boy, there are two ways of dealing with racists; beating sense into the racist or logically exposing the fallacious argument supporting racism. However, I was rooted to the spot. The part about slavery was right. The racist was mostly wrong but there was an element of truth. We had statues of a white Jesus in the 3 biggest catholic churches in Lagos.


I went home and started reading on "christianity and slavery".....that was the beginning of my alter-ego; logicboy. Logic became my Master.

Christianity is a foriegn religion to Nigeria and is no less of a fairytale than Shango or Ogun or thor.

WOW.... worth it, really worth it..

I'm happy for you. better a self-aware ATHEIST than a zombie CHRISTIAN...

logicboy:


I was a catholic but have always been a bit secular. I grew up watching MTV and Cartoons. I also made fun of protestant churches with their fake miracles and speaking in tongues.

When I moved to the UK, I became more secular. I found it a waste of time to go to church during winter. Freezing my azz off to go to church on sunday when I can watch premiership football.


However I was still a christian then. As someone that likes to get facts and argue, I started reading about the major wars and civilization. I read about slavery, Roman empire, medieval Britain etc.

The fateful day came when I was racially abused by an atheist white man, who said that "blacks are stupid because they are accept a religion that enslaved their people and they still like the image of a white Jesus; It is a curse to be black". Normally, as a London black boy, there are two ways of dealing with racists; beating sense into the racist or logically exposing the fallacious argument supporting racism. However, I was rooted to the spot. The part about slavery was right. The racist was mostly wrong but there was an element of truth. We had statues of a white Jesus in the 3 biggest catholic churches in Lagos.


I went home and started reading on "christianity and slavery".....that was the beginning of my alter-ego; logicboy. Logic became my Master.

Christianity is a foriegn religion to Nigeria and is no less of a fairytale than Shango or Ogun or thor.

You will now agree that having religion as you did is different from having a living relationship with our Lord Jesus Christ. When religious folks come over to the West it is then that they will realise that there is no difference between a religious man and an atheist. An atheist chooses not to believe that God exists and a religious man lives as if he doesn't believe God exists. So, what's the difference?

logicboy:


I was a catholic but have always been a bit secular. I grew up watching MTV and Cartoons. I also made fun of protestant churches with their fake miracles and speaking in tongues.

When I moved to the UK, I became more secular. I found it a waste of time to go to church during winter. Freezing my azz off to go to church on sunday when I can watch premiership football.


However I was still a christian then. As someone that likes to get facts and argue, I started reading about the major wars and civilization. I read about slavery, Roman empire, medieval Britain etc.

The fateful day came when I was racially abused by an atheist white man, who said that "blacks are stupid because they are accept a religion that enslaved their people and they still like the image of a white Jesus; It is a curse to be black". Normally, as a London black boy, there are two ways of dealing with racists; beating sense into the racist or logically exposing the fallacious argument supporting racism. However, I was rooted to the spot. The part about slavery was right. The racist was mostly wrong but there was an element of truth. We had statues of a white Jesus in the 3 biggest catholic churches in Lagos.


I went home and started reading on "christianity and slavery".....that was the beginning of my alter-ego; logicboy. Logic became my Master.

Christianity is a foriegn religion to Nigeria and is no less of a fairytale than Shango or Ogun or thor.

Thanks for sharing this. I think we all have moments like that that force us to look inwards and evaluate our beliefs. Muskeeto is right in saying this "better a self-aware ATHEIST than a zombie CHRISTIAN".

Going by our story, and not meaning to make any declarations about you, but it seems you were never really a christian. You merely practiced a religion you were born into - this is quite different from reaching an age of accountability and then making a purposed and conscious decision to walk a certain path.

On a final note, does the fact an "idea" or "teaching" or "philosophy" or "technology" etc etc was "imported" make it wrong? or useless? or racist?

Christianity is summarized in the beatitudes: and no one, not even logicboy, would object to the beatitudes.

Deep Sight:
Christianity is summarized in the beatitudes: and no one, not even logicboy, would object to the beatitudes.

The beatitudes. The inane platitudes that give christians a sense of moral superiority.

"Blessed are the poor in spirit,
for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
(The kingdom of heaven. Is that the place yahweh was concerned about in the tower of babel story??

Blessed are they who mourn,
for they shall be comforted.
(how nice!!!)

Blessed are the meek,
for they shall inherit the earth.
(talk about inane. I thought they were going to inherit the kingdom of heaven and whole galaxies of stars will fall inside the earth)

Blessed are they who hunger and thirst for righteousness,
for they shall be satisfied.
(As satisfied as Daddy G.O and The GREAT Bishop Oyedepo.)

Blessed are the merciful,
for they shall obtain mercy.
(Sure)

Blessed are the pure of heart,
for they shall see God.
(Really?!!!)

Blessed are the peacemakers,
for they shall be called children of God.
(Awwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww)

Blessed are they who are persecuted for the sake of righteousness,
for theirs is the kingdom of heaven."
(The kingdom of heaven. Where humans exist to kiss yahweh's a$$)

OLAADEGBU:

You will now agree that having religion as you did is different from having a living relationship with our Lord Jesus Christ. When religious folks come over to the West it is then that they will realise that there is no difference between a religious man and an atheist. An atheist chooses not to believe that God exists and a religious man lives as if he doesn't believe God exists. So, what's the difference?

Wrong. I believed in God then.


However, now that I think about it, I always hated christian songs.

logicboy:


I was a catholic but have always been a bit secular. I grew up watching MTV and Cartoons. I also made fun of protestant churches with their fake miracles and speaking in tongues.

When I moved to the UK, I became more secular. I found it a waste of time to go to church during winter. Freezing my azz off to go to church on sunday when I can watch premiership football.


However I was still a christian then. As someone that likes to get facts and argue, I started reading about the major wars and civilization. I read about slavery, Roman empire, medieval Britain etc.

The fateful day came when I was racially abused by an atheist white man, who said that "blacks are stupid because they are accept a religion that enslaved their people and they still like the image of a white Jesus; It is a curse to be black". Normally, as a London black boy, there are two ways of dealing with racists; beating sense into the racist or logically exposing the fallacious argument supporting racism. However, I was rooted to the spot. The part about slavery was right. The racist was mostly wrong but there was an element of truth. We had statues of a white Jesus in the 3 biggest catholic churches in Lagos.


I went home and started reading on "christianity and slavery".....that was the beginning of my alter-ego; logicboy. Logic became my Master.

Christianity is a foriegn religion to Nigeria and is no less of a fairytale than Shango or Ogun or thor.

I must admit that this experience will really affect many people including myself. If there is ever anything I have learnt today, it is that people have reasons for doing what they do. I honestly want to say sorry for the experience. However, what you were doing was a follow-follow type of religion. Why don't you try having a personal relationship with GOD?

That might be what you need

JeSoul: Thanks for sharing this. I think we all have moments like that that force us to look inwards and evaluate our beliefs. Muskeeto is right in saying this "better a self-aware ATHEIST than a zombie CHRISTIAN".

Going by our story, and not meaning to make any declarations about you, but it seems you were never really a christian. You merely practiced a religion you were born into - this is quite different from reaching an age of accountability and then making a purposed and conscious decision to walk a certain path.

On a final note, does the fact an "idea" or "teaching" or "philosophy" or "technology" etc etc was "imported" make it wrong? or useless? or racist?

I was a christian. I believed in Jesus. I mean, there is nothing as a christian that you are doing that I have not done. Is there any difference between you and me (in the past) when it comes to christianity?


As for importing of religion; Why would an omnipotent God appear to only people in the middle east/North Africa and ignore West Africa for 6over 4,000 years and then come to West Africa with slavery?

Why does your God seem to be a racist that has a chosen race? Hitler had a chosen race also

musKeeto:
WOW.... worth it, really worth it..

I'm happy for you. better a self-aware ATHEIST than a zombie CHRISTIAN...

Tank you!

logicboy:

Wrong. I believed in God then.

You believe in what you thought was God but did you know Him intimately?

logicboy: However, now that I think about it, I always hated christian songs.

That is a clue that you never knew Him because you could not have known Him and then claim to later unknow Him.

OLAADEGBU:

You believe in what you thought was God but did you know Him intimately?



That is a clue that you never knew Him because you could not have known Him and then claim to later unknow Him.

But how could I be deceived for 22 years? 22 years of going to church without knowing God? I am 24 andhave only been an atheist for 2 years

logicboy:


But how could I be deceived for 22 years? 22 years of going to church without knowing God? I am 24 andhave only been an atheist for 2 years

You were deceived because you were indoctrinated with dogmas that have no basis in the truth. The irony is that you have jumped from the frying pan to the fire because you have just started another form of indoctrination of lies that would lead you to nowhere. Let me reiterate my point again. A religious man especially many of us who say that we are Christians in Nigeria today live their lives as if God doesn't exist. When a religious man becomes an atheist he is just being consistent with his lifestyle.

Our Lord Jesus Christ has come not to make us religious but to make us righteous and set up a living relationship with our Creator. Jesus said you shall know the truth and the truth shall make you free. It is the truth you know that will make you free and when you are free you will be free indeed.

OLAADEGBU:

You were deceived because you were indoctrinated with dogmas that have no basis in the truth. The irony is that you have jumped from the frying pan to the fire because you have just started another form of indoctrination of lies that would lead you to nowhere. Let me reiterate my point again. A religious man especially many of us who say that we are Christians in Nigeria today live their lives as if God doesn't exist. When a religious man becomes an atheist he is just being consistent with his lifestyle.

Our Lord Jesus Christ has come not to make us religious be to make us righteous and set up a living relationship with our Creator. Jesus said you shall know the truth and the truth shall make you free. It is the truth you know that will make you free and when you are free you will be free indeed.

That there, is the problem. You can not describe what a relationship with God is. There is nothing you can tell me as a christian about christianity that I dont know or at least, have a basic idea about

OLAADEGBU:

You were deceived because you were indoctrinated with dogmas that have no basis in the truth. The irony is that you have jumped from the frying pan to the fire because you have just started another form of indoctrination of lies that would lead you to nowhere. Let me reiterate my point again. A religious man especially many of us who say that we are Christians in Nigeria today live their lives as if God doesn't exist. When a religious man becomes an atheist he is just being consistent with his lifestyle.

Our Lord Jesus Christ has come not to make us religious be to make us righteous and set up a living relationship with our Creator. Jesus said you shall know the truth and the truth shall make you free. It is the truth you know that will make you free and when you are free you will be free indeed.

You have really been one of the guys I truly respect here on this forum. Keep it up!

logicboy:


That there, is the problem. You can not describe what a relationship with God is. There is nothing you can tell me as a christian about christianity that I dont know or at least, have a basic idea about

Do you genuinely believe that you had a personal relationship with the LORD? Christianity is not a religion, it is a way of life and that is how you should approach it.

rastamouse:

Do you genuinely believe that you had a personal relationship with the LORD? Christianity is not a religion, it is a way of life and that is how you should approach it.

Whatever, dude. I'm an atheist now. No going back.

Like I've said on an earlier thread, and I think my story's quite similar to Logicboy's, 'losing faith' wasn't about being free from religion and its rules.. It was about being free to love people despite their shortcomings, realising that in this world, logic usually gets us what we want and desire, and that faith can not be proven. It's also coming to a realization that no religion has a monopoly on faith. Adherents of all religions will interpret events based on what they've been told, what they've experienced. A SINGULAR EXPERIENCE maybe UNIVERSAL, but its INTERPRETATION will most times be based on the environment it occurs in.

There'll always be evil xtians, good xtians, evil muslims, good muslims, and those who at heart seek God/nature/peace/the force, no matter their religion/beliefs/nonbelief would manifest those qualities that those whom are labelled 'spirit-led' in the Bible are expected to manifest.

I'm in a country where in some cases Hindus have been more decent with me in business dealings than Christians..

My respect for logicboy has grown immensely. Shocked to find out he's older than me though ... almost the same age anyway.. ill be 24 in august..

logicboy:


That there, is the problem. You can not describe what a relationship with God is. There is nothing you can tell me as a christian about christianity that I dont know or at least, have a basic idea about

Let me use this analogy. You can have a basic idea about the queen of England by reading her biographies but her husband, Philip and possibly her children will actually know her intimately because they have a loving, living relationship with her. You have to be connected to God by being adopted into His family and this is made possible through the shed blood of Jesus Christ on the Cross for the forgiveness of our sin and as we confess Him as our personal Saviour and Lord and believe that God raised Him up from the dead the Holy Spirit will regenerate your spirit man and you will then be connected. Read the suggested link to see how this pans out.

http://www.chick.com/reading/tracts/1079/1079_01.asp

musKeeto: Like I've said on an earlier thread, and I think my story's quite similar to Logicboy's, 'losing faith' wasn't about being free from religion and its rules.. It was about being free to love people despite their shortcomings, realising that in this world, logic usually gets us what we want and desire, and that faith can not be proven. It's also coming to a realization that no religion has a monopoly on faith. Adherents of all religions will interpret events based on what they've been told, what they've experienced. A SINGULAR EXPERIENCE maybe UNIVERSAL, but its INTERPRETATION will most times be based on the environment it occurs in.

There'll always be evil xtians, good xtians, evil muslims, good muslims, and those who at heart seek God/nature/peace/the force, no matter their religion/beliefs/nonbelief would manifest those qualities that those whom are labelled 'spirit-led' in the Bible are expected to manifest.

I'm in a country where in some cases Hindus have been more decent with me in business dealings than Christians..

My respect for logicboy has grown immensely. Shocked to find out he's older than me though ... almost the same age anyway.. ill be 24 in august..

Stop lying, old man. You probably even have children.