staggerlee:


Making money in ZAR is better based on perspective, there are more millionaires in usd in Nigeria than S.A. it also depend on what you do. I am an entrepreneur and the opportunities am seeing in Nigeria i never saw it in S.A. i do not believe in a capitalist economy, the same people that own bread factories own the banks. 80% of the land in S.A. is owned by 5000 white families. That explains why the same bread you see in cape town is what you see in jozi. Even to set up a bread making factory in S.A. na its impossible you have to franchise from existing factories like Albany or Sasco. With credit downgrade we will see and continue this in 2 years' time

Agreed. If you look closely at the structure of the economy, it is built around such capitalist institutions. They are few in number but a part of the wider economy. Their control and grip of developments in the overall macro-economy is huge.

If you visit the Western Cape and Eastern Cape provinces, the situation is much different regarding business environment. White domination.

Unfortunately, KZN, Mpumalanga, Guateng (some part) and other province with significant Black population have not capitalised on the resources available to turn the tide.

Their schools rank among the best in Africa with a welter of scholarly materials, enriched with access to international references. Affordable. Why has the Black population not taken advantage of that - which is in their domain?

Is the credit nature of the economy the answer? Yes. This is the only way to deal with problems of inequality and growing the middle class in the economy.

It is a marvel following the intelligent and brilliant ideas and counter ideas being posited by @keneking and @staggerlee as regards the reaction of SA's economy to recent cabinet reshuffle and subsequent downgrading to junk status. As rightly argued the informal sector in Nigeria has been a blessing in disguise in shielding Nigerians to the harsh reality of the market forces which are capitalist driven. From my little stay in SA I have just shockingly discovered a striking similarity between the UK and SA. Both countries have their economy based on the credit and welfare system which traditionally encourages laziness among its citizens. Although SA has the added problem of just coming out of apartheid, their revolt against fellow blacks from other African countries in form of xenophobia and their growing hatred for the whites could be likened to the recent Brexit movement in UK. With the abundance of funding for education of its citizens especially the natives in SA and little interest on their part so it is in the UK with a host of funded phd's for UK citizens with little interest on their parts. I might even argue that more Europeans enjoy UK funding than traditional Brits. Citizens of both countries thus see the growing population of foreigners as a threat to their livelihood. However I'm optimistic that SA won't really be messed up considering the staggering influence of the white families here in the country and the important leverage theye have in form of credit facilities to most South Africans. Furthermore any drastic decision of South Africa to 'reclaim' their country would spell doom for them due to the ingrained laziness and obvious lack of a competent skilled workforce to drive the economy. Just my humble submission though.

Chukwuka16:
It is a marvel following the intelligent and brilliant ideas and counter ideas being posited by @keneking and @staggerlee as regards the reaction of SA's economy to recent cabinet reshuffle and subsequent downgrading to junk status. As rightly argued the informal sector in Nigeria has been a blessing in disguise in shielding Nigerians to the harsh reality of the market forces which are capitalist driven. From my little stay in SA I have just shockingly discovered a striking similarity between the UK and SA. Both countries have their economy based on the credit and welfare system which traditionally encourages laziness among its citizens. Although SA has the added problem of just coming out of apartheid, their revolt against fellow blacks from other African countries in form of xenophobia and their growing hatred for the whites could be likened to the recent Brexit movement in UK. With the abundance of funding for education of its citizens especially the natives in SA and little interest on their part so it is in the UK with a host of funded phd's for UK citizens with little interest on their parts. I might even argue that more Europeans enjoy UK funding than traditional Brits. Citizens of both countries thus see the growing population of foreigners as a threat to their livelihood. However I'm optimistic that SA won't really be messed up considering the staggering influence of the white families here in the country and the important leverage theye have in form of credit facilities to most South Africans. Furthermore any drastic decision of South Africa to 'reclaim' their country would spell doom for them due to the ingrained laziness and obvious lack of a competent skilled workforce to drive the economy. Just my humble submission though.

South Africa's downfall is coming fast unless Jacob Zuma leaves today. Look at the educational sector, the universities used to be very great, but now the grade 1 to 12 schools are getting worse by the day. Due to corruption and contrasting economy of S.A. govt can no longer fund education adequately. Things like this will only get worse. For the paat 3 financial years S.A. economy has contrasted instead of growing, S.A. is sitting on a kettle of gun powder that can explode anytime.
As long as the economy is getting worse the shouts of reclaiming the land will increase and you know S.A.'s biggest problem? South Africans and residents have not seen their problems some that see it believe its the whites that is causing it or foreigners. I said it on this trend weeks before the last xenophobic attacks that there was going to be one soon i was shut up. It happened, i said it too that fees must fall protests will kill educational institutions I was also told to shut up. The thing about most Africans is that we always hope, when the signs are there.

Good day, please I submitted application at SA. embassy in lagos, since 13th of March nd till date 13th of April nothing yet. I only applied for 10 days visiting visa. My date of departure is 14th of April. What can be the problem?

If South Africa falls, will the hordes of "hardworking" desperadoes from all over Africa stop flocking in?

staggerlee:


South Africa's downfall is coming fast unless Jacob Zuma leaves today. Look at the educational sector, the universities used to be very great, but now the grade 1 to 12 schools are getting worse by the day. Due to corruption and contrasting economy of S.A. govt can no longer fund education adequately. Things like this will only get worse. For the paat 3 financial years S.A. economy has contrasted instead of growing, S.A. is sitting on a kettle of gun powder that can explode anytime.

As long as the economy is getting worse the shouts of reclaiming the land will increase and you know S.A.'s biggest problem? South Africans and residents have not seen their problems some that see it believe its the whites that is causing it or foreigners. I said it on this trend weeks before the last xenophobic attacks that there was going to be one soon i was shut up. It happened, i said it too that fees must fall protests will kill educational institutions I was also told to shut up. The thing about most Africans is that we always hope, when the signs are there.

Their universities still rank high in Africa even among BRICS. Grades 1 - 12 schools are reshaping to get better as there is healthy competition among provinces to produce great grades at Matric. Schools are investing massively to get talent to locals up to acceptable levels. Government can not fund education forever. The investment made so far must be balanced and has to pay off in the short term. Have you considered how much Rands is made available from DHET budgets annually? This amount is pumped directly to scholarships for low and "missing" middle and deserving student's funding. Yes, I agree this amount is shrinking because the budgets must be evaluated for (in)efficiencies.

"For the past 3 financial years S.A. economy has contrasted instead of growing, S.A. is sitting on a kettle of gun powder that can explode anytime." Who says? Have you checked out their export data to UK and some parts of EU? Do you know their fiscals? Do you know how much Tax authorities raked in 2016FY? Do you anticipate growth of 6%-7% on paper like Nigeria? Was there any mention of economic recovery in the Jacob Zuma's State of Nation address and Budget speech from Pravin Gordhan?

Calls for land reclamation is political. Ask EFF, IDM, APC, others political parties, those are their priorities if elected in Government. Xenophobic attacks happen everywhere and SA's case is simply so because it is political!

Tzardom:
If South Africa falls, will the hordes of "hardworking" desperadoes from all over Africa stop flocking in?

Yes they will stop. I guess you now have something to gain if/when she falls.

Keneking:


Their universities still rank high in Africa even among BRICS. Grades 1 - 12 schools are reshaping to get better as there is healthy competition among provinces to produce great grades at Matric. Schools are investing massively to get talent to locals up to acceptable levels. Government can not fund education forever. The 9investment made so far must be balanced and has to pay off in the short term. Have you considered how much Rands is made available from DHET budgets annually? This amount is pumped directly to scholarships for low and "missing" middle and deserving student's funding. Yes, I agree this amount is shrinking because the budgets must be evaluated for (in)efficiencies.

"For the past 3 financial years S.A. economy has contrasted instead of growing, S.A. is sitting on a kettle of gun powder that can explode anytime." Who says? Have you checked out their export data to UK and some parts of EU? Do you know their fiscals? Do you know how much Tax authorities raked in 2016FY? Do you anticipate growth of 6%-7% on paper like Nigeria? Was there any mention of economic recovery in the Jacob Zuma's State of Nation address and Budget speech from Pravin Gordhan?

Calls for land reclamation is political. Ask EFF, IDM, APC, others political parties, those are their priorities if elected in Government. Xenophobic attacks happen everywhere and SA's case is simply so because it is political!

Bros have taught in grade classes and i can tell you its full of sh*t. The UK economy isnt growing but it is very very stable it is not contracting. U.K. economy does not have to grow, it is a developed economy unlike S.A. where it is a developing economy.
I wonder why you should even compare a junk status economy to European economy, guy dont try it.
I have not said naija has a better economy but you guys just chill a few years. Sadly S.A. is moving slowly towards doom, while Nigeria is moving slowly towards boom. Please bookmark this page and God willing we shall all be alive by 2020 to refresh. I will put a clause though if Zuma can be removed before or by June S.A. has hope if not you all guys will see the gall of S.A. (its not a curse) also if the present govt in Nigeria is ousted prematurely then i cant guaranty Nigeria's boom again.

Calls of reclaiming land is gone beyond politics now, with a bad economy more people will shout it. I really dont see why south African blacks shouldnt take back their land, if it were us that some white assholes chased us from our land will we not agitate to take back our land? I actually support the call to take back the land. Is just that these South African blacks are bloody lazy, but its going to happen soon.

For how long will universities in S.A. keep their ranking. Already uct resumed only in March for 2017 session (it has never happened before). European lecturers are diminishing by the day, but lets watch.

tweb1:

Yes they will stop. I guess you now have something to gain if/when she falls.

That will be wonderful.

Tzardom:


That will be wonderful.

So what are you going to do? Wait and hope the economy of SA crashes so that the forigners have no choice but to leave or you lead an "S/A must fall" campaign. Maybe you will be considered a revolutionist.

tweb1:

So what are you going to do? Wait and hope the economy of SA crashes so that the forigners have no choice but to leave or you lead an "S/A must fall" campaign. Maybe you will be considered a revolutionist.

This is the reasoning of an average South African, they dont want you. They hate foreigners

tweb1:

So what are you going to do? Wait and hope the economy of SA crashes so that the forigners have no choice but to leave or you lead an "S/A must fall" campaign. Maybe you will be considered a revolutionist.

I don't need to wait, hope nor lead any campaigns. Our resident prophet and qualified economist has spoken; SA's economy is going to fall - It's only a matter of when.

All I needed to know was whether or not the "hardworkers" were then gonna stop pilling in. And you said they would. EoD

staggerlee:


This is the reasoning of an average South African, they dont want you. They hate foreigners

I think it is rather the reasoning of the poor and hopeless South africans, the ones on the streets and townships and maybe a very few average. Because the few average I know don't reason like that.

staggerlee:


This is the reasoning of an average South African, they dont want you. They hate foreigners

while I welcome your opinion in this forum and appreciate your line of thought, ..this your summary is the lowest of the low. it shows you have failed to understand labour struggle post apartheid era and various legislations and enforcement in this regard..come to think of it most countries including Nigeria has such laws in place that protect the interest of its citizen first in employment
matters, so it is not new in SA. why I am I saying this? most agitations against foreigners has always been Job opportunity, Drug and Crime!. You can't generalise and say they hate foreigners! because they believe the system is compromised and are not enforcing the law...they take laws into their hands...am not in support of this and I totally condemned it. May be you forgot that uptill this moment foreigners are still taking professional jobs in SA corporations. can you say they hate foreigners? even our own Prof Wole Shoyinka now lectures at Univ of Joburg.

Hello house, I applied for voluntary work visa in south africa thru our a sister Parish in march but was denied based on: Document lack credibility... today I received an invite from anoda church for a program by June....

My question hope there won't be barriers from my last denier.

NOTE: I HAVE TRAVELED TO SA 5 TIMES WITHOUT OVERSTAY..

AWAITING YOUR KIND AND PROFITABLE RESPONSE... THANKS

With the little time I've spent here In SA, I can tell they are lovely and nice people. Maybe cos I'm more in the academic setting. I've met with allot of SA'n friends who had been great with me. It's more than what a Nigerian would do wholeheartedly. Everybody here respect u irrespective of ur nationality. That's why I find it hard to comprehend when they say they hate foreigners blah blah cos Prior to coming here the mentality was "they hate foreigners, they don't even want to talk to u, be careful how u relate with them.. etc". I've not witness such hatred and none of the Nigerians and other Africans I met here said otherwise. Where does this hatred really occur?

And do we really like each other back home? Is it talking about us been mentally divided geographically, politically, or about our varied religion affiliations?

Talking about institution standard, the research here is magnificent and everything is structurally in place. You can claim the university standard is reducing, but they still the top in Africa. UCT still among top 200 in the world, over 6 other institution still ranked among 1000 in the world and it doesn't look like it's gonna change anytime soon fee must fall protests or not.

bailcron:
Hello house, I applied for voluntary work visa in south africa thru our a sister Parish in march but was denied based on: Document lack credibility... today I received an invite from anoda church for a program by June....

My question hope there won't be barriers from my last denier.

NOTE: I HAVE TRAVELED TO SA 5 TIMES WITHOUT OVERSTAY..

AWAITING YOUR KIND AND PROFITABLE RESPONSE... THANKS

It may bro, this reminds me of a Nigerian during my flight to SA. He had a valid Medical visa and he was a frequent traveller to SA, he applied for a study visa in Lagos prior to coming but got rejected. He wasn't allowed to SA has he was deported back to Lagos at Nairobi when the airline confirm with POE at Jburg and they said he would be denied entry cos his visa is terminated or so.

Don't change your visa condition and make the documents more credible this time.

Thecassanova:

It may bro, this reminds me of a Nigerian during my flight to SA. He had a valid Medical visa and he was a frequent traveller to SA, he applied for a study visa in Lagos prior to coming but got rejected. He wasn't allowed to SA has he was deported back to Lagos at Nairobi when the airline confirm with POE at Jburg and they said he would be denied entry cos his visa is terminated or so.

Don't change your visa condition and make the documents more credible this time.

Thanks for your response.. I want to get you right.. in my case all the SA visas i have on my passport are visiting... but last month I filed in voluntary work permit but was denied... now as usual I get another invite from another church inviting me for a program in June. Presently I don't have valid Visa.

welf99:


while I welcome your opinion in this forum and appreciate your line of thought, ..this your summary is the lowest of the low. it shows you have failed to understand labour struggle post apartheid era and various legislations and enforcement in this regard..come to think of it most countries including Nigeria has such laws in place that protect the interest of its citizen first in employment
matters, so it is not new in SA. why I am I saying this? most agitations against foreigners has always been Job opportunity, Drug and Crime!. You can't generalise and say they hate foreigners! because they believe the system is compromised and are not enforcing the law...they take laws into their hands...am not in support of this and I totally condemned it. May be you forgot that uptill this moment foreigners are still taking professional jobs in SA corporations. can you say they hate foreigners? even our own Prof Wole Shoyinka now lectures at Univ of Joburg.

Whether you believe or not the average South African hates you as a foreigner it is the harsh truth. If you like hate my statement, they dont want us in their country. I am very well educated and lived all my life in S.A. in good suburbs i have had a very fair share of the hatred, from school, to office, to banks, to taxis (will never take a taxi in jozi again). This is a personal experience. Even to children that know nothing they are not liked

Thecassanova:
With the little time I've spent here In SA, I can tell they are lovely and nice people. Maybe cos I'm more in the academic setting. I've met with allot of SA'n friends who had been great with me. It's more than what a Nigerian would do wholeheartedly. Everybody here respect u irrespective of ur nationality. That's why I find it hard to comprehend when they say they hate foreigners blah blah cos Prior to coming here the mentality was "they hate foreigners, they don't even want to talk to u, be careful how u relate with them.. etc". I've not witness such hatred and none of the Nigerians and other Africans I met here said otherwise. Where does this hatred really occur?

And do we really like each other back home? Is it talking about us been mentally divided geographically, politically, or about our varied religion affiliations?

Talking about institution standard, the research here is magnificent and everything is structurally in place. You can claim the university standard is reducing, but they still the top in Africa. UCT still among top 200 in the world, over 6 other institution still ranked among 1000 in the world and it doesn't look like it's gonna change anytime soon fee must fall protests or not.

Hi,

I so much like ur contribution. It's soothing - i've being having mixed feeling about flying 2 SA cos of all d -ve news.

Pls I'd like to connect with u. Coming to UJ next week for my master. Thanks.

intrinsicniyi:


Hi,

I so much like ur contribution. It's soothing - i've being having mixed feeling about flying 2 SA cos of all d -ve news.

Pls I'd like to connect with u. Coming to UJ next week for my master. Thanks.

The mixed feelings would change once u get settled down here.

No problem but I'm in Capetown, quite far from Jborg tho.

bailcron:


Thanks for your response.. I want to get you right.. in my case all the SA visas i have on my passport are visiting... but last month I filed in voluntary work permit but was denied... now as usual I get another invite from another church inviting me for a program in June. Presently I don't have valid Visa.

I misread the question, sorry

I don't get, what is voluntary work permit? I think it's better applying for visit visa. Applying for work permit for just a few weeks program sounds one off to me.
Or why did u apply for voluntary work permit when you only going for couple of weeks?? You have a greater chance on visit visa.

Thecassanova:

The mixed feelings would change once u get settled down here.

No problem but I'm in UWC @Capetown, quite far from Jborg tho.

Ok man, thank you. I'll surely holla you wen ii land.

Be good!

Thecassanova:

I misread the question, sorry

I don't get, what is voluntary work permit? I think it's better applying for visit visa. Applying for work permit for just a few weeks program sounds one off to me.
Or why did u apply for voluntary work permit when you only going for couple of weeks?? You have a greater chance on visit visa.

Voluntary work permit/visa is a visa issued to people that are going to S.A. for non profitable jobs like churches, members of red cross, etc. It is normally issued to people staying beyond a month. You are not allowed to take up regular employment, or study with such a visa

Thecassanova:

The mixed feelings would change once u get settled down here.

No problem but I'm in UWC @Capetown, quite far from Jborg tho.

No wonder you live in cape town , you wont really geel the harsh reality of South Africa because cape town is chilled with a high population of whites and coloured people. Try live in Gauteng. I have lived in CT well as well as Midrand there is a difference. Dont mislead people. I am only being blunt

staggerlee:


Whether you believe or not the average South African hates you as a foreigner it is the harsh truth. If you like hate my statement, they dont want us in their country. I am very well educated and lived all my life in S.A. in good suburbs i have had a very fair share of the hatred, from school, to office, to banks, to taxis (will never take a taxi in jozi again). This is a personal experience. Even to children that know nothing they are not liked

I feel your pain, you might have bad experience while in Jozi that's not enough to generalise, for some of us who have lived among the Xhosa we are loved and welcome! don't forget that Zulu's are not the only tribe in SA..look at the history of xenophobic attach in SA from KwaZulu natal to gauteng to Limpopo...what does it tell you? Zulus have their influence in all those places especially since JZ became president, the hatred coming from Zulu also affect other tribes as well ...they intimidate and harass them...as a result other tribes tried to stay away from them. Most People that disagree with you on this forum have had good experience from western cape, eastern cape , northern cape all the way to Mpumalanga....check these places dominated by which tribe? of course not Zulus.

staggerlee:

No wonder you live in cape town , you wont really geel the harsh reality of South Africa because cape town is chilled with a high population of whites and coloured people. Try live in Gauteng. I have lived in CT well as well as Midrand there is a difference. Dont mislead people. I am only being blunt

Even amidst the black population here I feel no hatred, though I have couple of nice venda friends from Limpopo province who said they can't even relate or befriend with Zulus cos they feel themselves too much and behave like everybody owes them. Maybe cos they're the largest ethnic group.

It wouldn't be fair using a particular tribe or group to mask the whole country has not friendly just like saying all parts in Nigeria is not safe because of the Northeast insurgency.

I clearly stated "I" personally on the hatred and people have met. So it's clearly not misleading bra

staggerlee:


Voluntary work permit/visa is a visa issued to people that are going to S.A. for non profitable jobs like churches, members of red cross, etc. It is normally issued to people staying beyond a month. You are not allowed to take up regular employment, or study with such a visa

Thanks I appreciate.... but please can i go for submission requesting for visiting Visa as regard the invite for a two weeks program. House I need ur candid advice on this... thanks

welf99:


I feel your pain, you might have bad experience while in Jozi that's not enough to generalise, for some of us who have lived among the Xhosa we are loved and welcome! don't forget that Zulu's are not the only tribe in SA..look at the history of xenophobic attach in SA from KwaZulu natal to gauteng to Limpopo...what does it tell you? Zulus have their influence in all those places especially since JZ became president, the hatred coming from Zulu also affect other tribes as well ...they intimidate and harass them...as a result other tribes tried to stay away from them. Most People that disagree with you on this forum have had good experience from western cape, eastern cape , northern cape all the way to Mpumalanga....check these places dominated by which tribe? of course not Zulus.

Amazing point. You can not use your experience in one or two provinces to infer that South Africans hate foreigners.

staggerlee:


Making money in ZAR is better based on perspective, there are more millionaires in usd in Nigeria than S.A. it also depend on what you do. I am an entrepreneur and the opportunities am seeing in Nigeria i never saw it in S.A. i do not believe in a capitalist economy, the same people that own bread factories own the banks. 80% of the land in S.A. is owned by 5000 white families. That explains why the same bread you see in cape town is what you see in jozi. Even to set up a bread making factory in S.A. na its impossible you have to franchise from existing factories like Albany or Sasco. With credit downgrade we will see and continue this in 2 years' time

Stop misleading people with your lies. Check the link below, yerrrrr
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-africa-34138610

14:


Stop misleading people with your lies. Check the link below, yerrrrr
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-africa-34138610

I wont even argue with you with statistics of 2015, at least the ricjest man in Africa is a Nigerian, apart from that owner of sundowns, motsepe or so the richest south africans are bloody white people who illegitimately took the land from black people, soon the land will be taken back.

Keneking:


Amazing point. You can not use your experience in one or two provinces to infer that South Africans hate foreigners.

Blacks in western cape are more chilled considering the people they live with but you step out of that zone its a different ball game.
You think Gauteng is bad, go to kzn where the king instructed the natives to chase foreigners, there are 8 major metros in S.A. out of the 8 i can only safely say only 2 welcome foreigners, city of cape town and nelson mandela bay. In nelson mandela bay its only port Elizabeth that is accommodating. Try entering a taxi in jozi (a taxi is where average South Africans meet) and see the hostility you get for not speaking a native language, same goes for taxis in Mphumalanga, polokwane in limpopo, Durban in KZN. Even in western cape, take a taxi to places like Nyanga or Gugulethu and you dont speak xhosa, you will hate yourself.