We are out of the Carling cup. No tears shed. I've been waiting to see Aquilani play for Liverpool. saw him play for Roma and the Azzurris and thought he was quality. I remember saying what we missed about Alonso.

EARLMAGIC:

One thing about Alonso, that we miss is that 90 percent of the time when he receives the ball, his first ball is forwards, thus being the launch pad for a lot of our attack and his passing range was awesome.

With Plessis playing today you would see him get the ball and pass backwards, all through his time on the pitch he only made about 3 passes forward and about 15 backwards. When aquilani came on it was first pass forward with good range.
I dont know how he will continue to play but thats what I've been looking for to replace Alonso. I am not going to analyse the game and how Kyriakgos and Skertel Colluded to give Arsenal a goal and how Babel has once again has showed that "he cannot hit a barn door with a banjo". I am not a fan of the Carling cup.
Good Football young guns, You deserve your victory!!

Well said man. . . . I only saw highlights on CNN last night. . . . .  I was waiting for some analysis on Aquilani,lets pray he hits the ground running. . . like you Im not a fan of the 'Worth-nothing' Cup ^{(apologies to Alex Ferguson)} ,tho' we hold the record for most wins.

Kudos to theM Goners sha ! 

[center]YOU'LL NEVER WALK ALONE  [/center]

I'm kind of disappointed we lost the game even if its a Carling cup. u see, silverware matters a lot right now. there are players in the squad who have have given everything but haven't won any.

winning trophies of any kind will encourage the good players to stay and improve- that way we don't get to lose our best players.

i think we should have something to show for at the end of every season be it tea cup or milk cup because a season without a trophy is a failure.

the fringe players like Babel and Voronin aren't doing themselves a lot of good. How do they hope to get into the 1st team when they are always missing good chances to score?

I just hope we take the FA cup seriously.

@ illusion2

Aquilani had just a cameo role but showed a glimpse of what he is capable of when he returns to full fitness.
I think a midfield with him, Stevie G, Mascherano and kuyt/Benayoun will be a handful for any team. In January Chelsea might suffer if the transfer embargo holds with Drogba, Essien, Mikel, Kallou all on Nations cup duty.

@ bgees
I know how you feel mate, but to be honest with you, with a thin squad like ours is now called, then its better if we are not chasing titles on all quarters with injury worries and fatigue.
Arsenal's inexperience will be there undoing, Man city is not there yet, If Chelsea blips in January, and Man u dont find form then we might just be in the mix.
Lots of ifs. dont forget out 2005 Champions league motto "dare to believe" LOL

EARLMAGIC:




@ bgees
I know how you feel mate, but to be honest with you, with a thin squad like ours is now called, then its better if we are not chasing titles on all quarters with injury worries and fatigue.
Arsenal's inexperience will be there undoing, Man city is not there yet, If Chelsea blips in January, and Man u dont find form then we might just be in the mix.
Lots of ifs. dont forget out 2005 Champions league motto "dare to believe" LOL

i agree . lets just walk on Fulham and take one match at a time. I want us to win the F.a cup(at least) though.

When i said the man acts impulsively,someone was joining issues with me.

This man shoudl be sacked immediately ! ^{I suspect he's screwing things up ,so he can get paid full terminal benefits & take up the Real madrid job}

Very sad day for a great club with such prestigious history.

Hehehe 6 wins 5 losses and we still dey October. Y'all finished 30pts off the top in 04 it could happen again

Y.A.W.A
You'll Always Walk Alone
A loss to Lyon and Rafa just might get the axe. Y'all ain't looking like a big 4 team right now

Don't worry, Rafa will never get the Madrid job, at least not when FP and Valdano are still in charge.

His problem all stems from trying to sell Alonso in 08, which eventually led to him being sold last summer. Only he knows what he saw in Barry.
What he needed was to maintain his core players and bring in some quality backups. He has just not been judicious with funds.
£18m for Glen, and letting Arbeloa go for €4m , where is the quality CB to replace Carragher?
He had a chance at getting Negredo (who would have been the perfect understudy to Torres) for €15m, and Lee Cattermole for €7m, but instead decided to squander the better part of the money (€20m+) on Alberto 'glass foot' Aquilani.
Who does he have to fill in when Gerard or Mascherano is out injured?
Rafa just cant seem to work on a tight budget. The gap in quality between the starters and the subs are just too wide. At least the immediate 7 subs need to be much better.

A loss against Lyon and a win at home by Fiorentina, will likely put an end to Liverpool's run in the CL, and could spell the end of his tenure at Anfield.

Rafa will do what he always does and conjure up two fantastic games and make it past the round

Krayola:

Rafa will do what he always does and conjure up two fantastic games and make it past the round

Everyday for the thief . . . . . .
This is Lyon and not Marseille.

Rafa is becoming a disappointment to Articulate Liverpool fans.
I am of the Opinion that he must go.

masonemen:

Rafa is becoming a disappointment to Articulate Liverpool fans.
I am of the Opinion that he must go.

He is not the man to take Liverpool to the league title BUT i don't see any sense in sacking his ass right now.

Should the American owners sack him. . . . .Y'all would have to pay him some sorta compensation and i doubt y'all can afford that at the moment.
Furthermore, another manager would be brought in. . . . .his replacement would prolly be Klinsmann or Hiddink and it will take the best part of another 5 years to build a solid team that will compete in this league.

How Rafa squandered £250 million on 76 players in 5 YEARS and still he cannot put out a decent team is a disgrace!!!

Rafa's approach to team building (which is buy every player you see until you find a good one) only works when you have deep pockets. I am sure he would be successful at a club like Man City, where money is no problem.

Apparently rafa's approach to rotation on the field of play extends to rotation in the transfer market. He has turned liverpool into a circular conveyor belt, lotta action, but where's the beginning where's d end product. He catn win the league like this its that simple. Ad like sauron said its now more expensive for a with financila constraints to sack him cos he just signed a deal inmarch. Shame really.

And its getting worse on the verge of going out in the UCL, way behind the pack in the premiership, outta the kiddies cup, all he's got to play for now is the FA cup.Why does liverpool like doing stuff the hardway.

~Sauron~:

He is not the man to take Liverpool to the league title BUT i don't see any sense in sacking his ass right now.

Should the American owners sack him. . . . .Y'all would have to pay him some sorta compensation and i doubt y'all can afford that at the moment.
Furthermore, another manager would be brought in. . . . .his replacement would prolly be Klinsmann or Hiddink and it will take the best part of another 5 years to build a solid team that will compete in this league.

How Rafa squandered £250 million on 76 players in 5 YEARS and still he cannot put out a decent team is a disgrace!!!

indeed, Rafa, is disgracing us, i however like your articulation on how much he has spent in 5 years. but neither Klinsman nor Hiddink is capable of doing the magic needed at anfield. in my opinion, Avram Grant is my man.

it's ok folks. relax. we will always bounce back somehow. it is bad now. obviously this is a bad season for us. we should have got a capable replacement for alonso. even now we dont have a replacement for torres. if anything happens to him now we are finished. it took almost a years to replace owen (with torres) i guess we should have ready alternatives at all times. rafa has had his best with us and now is having his worst.

but liverpool remains the team to belong. so brothers and sisters, cheer up, because . . .

we will never walk alone

Toshmann!!! Where you been compadre??

I like Rafa but i think more than anyone else he has been the problem of that Liverpool side i mean can anyone point to one outstanding signing he has made aside from Fernando Torres since he got to England?
His haste to buy Robbie Keane and then flog him off counts as one of his numerous gaffes and WTF was he going to do with Dossena,Degen and those buncha average Joes he signed. Aside Benayoun they don't have a bench no backup for Torres and the list goes on and on and on. Although TBH injury has been unfair to him this season there is no team that would not miss Gerrard and Torres it is still expected that Liverpool should not have lost 5 league games before November

Okay guys, I'm rooting for y'all tonight.

How can Liverpool exit the UCL in the group stages, for Pete's sake?

i don't know what to expect 2night but

i hope win and pray to qualify.


up LIVERPOOL

kliverpool:

i don't know what to expect 2night but

i hope win and pray to qualify.


up LIVERPOOL

Let's hope we stay up and never walk alone.
YNWA.

Y.A.W.A

You'll Always Walk Alone

You guys should throw Voronin away come January and get Torres a better strike partner

Perhaps they should include Ngog as well.
But Voronin, mos' def'.

Blah blah blah .

i think this just too much to ask for this time
we are out EUROPA CUT here we come
what can i say another heart break
i still think we can still salvage our season by winning something
watch out.

as soon as our injury concerns ease out, we should be up and running . I refuse to think we are out the EPL race , but the Uefa champs league 2nd round is out of it. we can always try to win the Europa cup.

na only hope we get.

YNWA!

The Europa cup doesnt really look bad. the main thing is the EPL.

YNWA!

I saw this post on http://www.redandwhitekop.com. so I decided to share this . we make ourselves wiser.



In order to try and dispell a few media fuelled myths that sections of our fanbase seem to have swallowed; here's the full list of players he's signed since he's been at the club (please read the summary below):

2004/05

£2m - Josemi: peanuts and was moved on in a swap for Kromkamp 18 months later
£1.5m - Antonio Nunez: part of the Michael Owen deal and filled a gap for a while. Peanuts.
£10.7m - Xabi Alonso: Massive success and sold for £30m+ in the summer when he wanted to leave
£6m - Luis Garcia: Massive success and sold to Athletico Madrid for £4m
Free - Pelligrino: Stop gap that allowed us to rest Sami for league games, benefitting us massively in Istanbul. Now on the coaching staff.
£6.3m - Fernando Morientes: Pretty much everyone made up when we signed him, top class, but never settled. Sold for £3m to Valencia.
£1m - Scott Carson: One the most highly rated young keepers around. Lost out through injury and signing of Reina when Dudek left the club. Sold for £3.25m.

Total bought: £27.5m

Free - Marcus Babbel: Released to Stuttgart at the end of his career.
£2.5m - Danny Murphy: Xabi Alonso signed to fill the role Murphy had in the side
£8.5m - Michael Owen: Wouldn't sign a new contract and sold before he left on a free. He's done nothing since that is a masterstroke with hindsight.
Free - Stephane Henchoz: Released to Celtic at the end of his career

Total sold: £11m

A total of £16.5m net spend in his first year at the club, with the vast majority of that being spent on Xabi Alonso.

2004/05 net spend: £16.5m

2005/06

£240,000 - Antonio Barragan: Kid for the future. Sold for £675,000 to Deportivo a year later.
Free - Boudewijn Zenden: Signed for nothing and released for nothing. Did a job for us.
£6m - Pepe Reina: In the top 3 or 4 keepers in the world now and still young. One of Rafa's best signings.
£5.6m - Momo Sissoko: Brilliant for a few years, had that eye injury and sold to Juventus when his form dipped for £8.2m. Replaced by Mascherano.
£7m - Peter Crouch: One signing I did question but proved to be a great bit of business. Turned him from a laughing stock into an international. Sold for £11m.
Unkown - Miki Roque: Kid bought for peanuts. Sold again for an unknown amount.
£150,000 - Jack Hobbs: Highly rated 16yr old signed from Lincoln. Didn't progress as hoped and sold to Leicester for a reported £1.5m, although figure not confirmed.
£190,000 Besian Idrizaj: No idea who he is
£1.5m - Mark Gonzales: Cheap player to provide back up for the left wing. Sold for £3.5m to Real Betis.
Exchange - Paul Anderson: Swapped for John Welsh. Sold for £250,000.
Exchange - Jan Kromkamp: Swapped for Josemi. Later sold for £1.75m
£5.8m - Daniel Agger: Blighted by injuries but potentially top class and great signing for the money.
£250,000 - David Martin: Young reserve keeper
Free - Robbie Fowler: Pay as you play deal and no risk involved. Scored a few goals. Released in the summer.

Total bought: £26.73

Free - Vladimir Smicer: Out of contract and released. Played a small part in Istanbul.
£3.5m - El Hadji Diouf: The best £3.5m Rafa has ever recieved.
Free - Pellegrino: Filled the gap in the last 5 months of the previous season, not good enough and released.
£2m - Alou Diarra: Sold for £2m. One of Houllier's buys.
£2m - Antonio Nunez: Bought for £1.5m and now sold for £2m when didn't work out.
£6.5m - Milan Baros: A Houllier signing sold at a profit. He's done nothing since.
Exchange - John Welsh: Swapped for Paul Anderson
Exchange - Josemi: Swapped for Kronkamp.

Total sold: £14m

2005/06 net spend: £12.73m
2006/07

£6m - Craig Bellamy: Good signing and later sold for £7.5m to fund Torres deal.
£2m - Gabriel Palletta: Played a few league cup games, not good enough and sold for £1.2m
Free - Fabio Aurelio: Very injury prone but a good player when fit. Great signing for nothing.
£6.7m - Jermaine Pennant: Second choice after missing out on Alves. Ran his contract down and released. Attitude stank.
£9m - Dirk Kuyt: Has his critics, but has been brilliant for the money. 15 goals last season from wide and vital to the way we play. Ultimate pro. Great signing.
£200,000 - Nabil El Zhar: Few cameos last season and improving. Injured now. Promising still. Peanuts.
£750,000 - Astrit Ajdarevic: No idea who he is, and released on a free to Leicester.
Loan - Daniele Padelli: Reserve keeper, made one appearance and never seen again.
Undisclosed - Jordy Brouwer: Young reserve.
£2.5m - Alvaro Arbeloa: Bargain signing, great service for a few years and sold for £3.5m when running his contract down.
Loan - Javier Mascherano: Rescued from West Ham, now one of the best defensive midfielders in the world and will probably be sold to Barca this summer for a massive profit. Paid £18.6m for him a year later at end of loan deal.

Total bought: £27.15m

£200,000 - Zak Whitbread: Youngster
Undisclosed - Bruno Cheyrou: Houllier flopped, sold for a reported £1.5m.
£3m - Fernando Morientes: Didn't work out. Cut his losses.
Free - Didi Hamann: Great servant, released at the end of his career
£675,000 - Antonio Barragan: Paid £240,000 for him.
£2m - Djimi Traore: Houllier signing and daylight robbery getting £2m for him
£500,000 - Neil Mellor: Signed as a kid and did a job for a while. Not good enough and released.
£1.75m - Jan Kromkamp: Nunez bought for £2m, swapped for him, who then sold for £1.75m. Stop gaps at minimal expense.
£525,000 - Darren Potter: Acadamy lad, not good enough and robbery getting that much for him.
£1.5m - Steven Warnock: Probably sold to cheap and looks a mistake with hindsight. Good squad player.
Free - Salif Diao: The clearout of Houllier's flops continues.

Total sold: £10.15m

2006/07 net spend: £17m

2007/08


£5m - Lucas Leiva: Brazilian player of the year when signed. Could still go either way but a lot to prove.
Undisclosed - Krisztian Nemeth: Promising youngster currently out on loan in Athens.
£270,000 - Mikel San Jose Dominguez: Youngester plays in the reserves.
£1.8m - Sebastian Leto: Left winger signing but refused a work permit. Sold for £3m.
£20.2m - Fernando Torres: Bargain of the century
Free - Andriy Voronin: Free transfer to strengthen the squad. Plays well in Germany, garbage over here.
£5m - Yossi Benayoun: Took a while to settle but now a key player. Superb signing and an absolute bargain.
£11.5m - Ryan Babel: Highly rated dutch international. Absolute waste of space. Bad signing on reflection, but nobody knew how he'd turn out. Still got potential but he can't be arsed.
Undisclosed - Charles Itandje: Back up keeper signed for peanuts. Now released.
£1.3m - Emiliano Insua: Youngster who is now a full Argentinian international and massive potential. Bargain.
£6.5m - Martin Skrtel: Been off form this season so far, but brilliant last year and a good signing for the money.
£18.6m - Javier Mascherano: Completion of loan deal

Total bought: £70.7m

£2.7m – Florent Simana-Pongolle: Houllier youngster sold wanting first team football.
£100,000 – Daniel O’Donnell: Kid sold
Free – Jerzy Dudek: Released at end of contract
Free - Zenden: Released at end of contract
Free – Robbie Fowler: Released at end of contract
£4m – Luis Garcia: Wanted to return to Spain. Great service.
£6m – Djibril Cisse: Houllier signing sold to part fund Torres deal.
£7.5m – Craig Bellamy: Sold at profit to part fund Torres deal
£3.5m – Mark Gonzales: Signed for £1.5m and sold when didn’t work out.
£1.2m – Gabriel Palletta: Bought for £2m but never worked out. Young defender.
£3.5m – Chris Kirkland: Houllier signing. Injury prone and wanted first team football.
£8.2m – Momo Sissoko: Great signing, good service, sold when lost his form at a profit.

Total sold: £36.7m

2007/08 net spend: £34m

2008/09

Free – Philip Degen: Garbage, but free.
£7m - Andrea Dossena: Italian international left back. Hasn’t settled. Bad signing.
£3.5m – Diego Cavalieri: Reserve keeper. Only played league cup games so far.
£1.5m – David N’gog: Young French striker. Promising.
£19m – Robbie Keane: Everyone made up when we signed him. Didn’t work out and sold back to Spurs for £16m.
£8m - Albert Riera: Spanish international. Started well but jury still out.

Total bought: £39m

£4m – John Arne Riise: Good servant but form tailed off. Snapped their hands off at £4m.
Free – Harry Kewell: Harry who?
Undisclosed – Anthony Le Tallec: Houllier youngster finally released. Fee not known.
£11m – Peter Crouch: Laughing stock bought for £7m. Great signing. Wanted first team football.
£2.25m – Danny Guthrie: Youngster from Acadamy thought not good enough.
£3.25m – Scott Carson: Injury prone and Reina now first choice. Sold at profit.
Undisclosed – Steve Finnan: Sold for a fee believed to be £1m
£16m – Robbie Keane: Didn’t work out.
Undisclosed – Jack Hobbs: Young defender that didn’t progress. Sold for believed to £1.5m.

Total sold: £36.5m

2008/09 net spend: £2.5m


2009/10

£17.5m – Glen Johnson: Big fee, but has been brilliant so far.
£17.1m - Alberto Aquilani: Injured so far but meant to be a class act. Highly rated in Italy.
£2m – Sotirios Kyrgiakos: Last minute signing to fill Hyypia’s shoes. Only money we had to spend.
£160,000 – Daniel Ayala: Young defender, played a few times this season and looked promising.

Total bought: £36.76m

£250,000 – Paul Anderson: Youngster that didn’t progess.
Free – Jermaine Pennant: Out of contract. Poor signing.
Free – Miki Roque: No idea who he is. Bought for peanuts.
£3m – Sebastian Leto: Signed for £1.8m but didn’t get a work permit. Had to sell.
£3.5m – Alvaro Arbeloa: Wanted to leave and out of contract in the summer.
£30m – Xabi Alonso: Wanted to leave. Bought for £10.7m. Great signing.

Total sold: £36.75m

2009/10 net spend: £10,000


Total Players Bought: £228,976,000
Total Players Sold: £145,100,000

Total Net Spend: £83,876,000


So, that’s a total spend of just over £83m in 5 years at the club. An average of £16.6m a year.

The vast majority of his signings have been sold at profit, or if still at the club, are worth a lot more than we paid for them. Exceptions being Babel and Dossena, but we’ll still get decent fees for them when sold as they’re full internationals.

A lot of the signings above have been stepping stones in rebuilding the squad, gradually improving it by replacing players with better ones. Our league positions over the past 5 years and the improvement in our league positions and points totals show the progression.

2004/05: Finished 5th – 58 pts
2005/06: Finished 3rd – 82 pts
2006/07: Finished 3rd – 68 pts
2007/08: Finished 4th – 76 pts
2008/09: Finished 2nd – 86 pts

Is it any coincidence that the progression seems to have stopped this summer? Look at the transfer activity above for this year and it might explain why.

We have a wage bill that is the 5th highest in the league. We can’t afford to pay players £70,000 to be sat on the bench like United and Chelsea can.

Rafa Benitez’ record with signings at the top end of the market is nothing short of brilliant. Robbie Keane being the only flop, but he was sold 6 months later and only a small financial hit taken on that mistake. Rick Parry agreed the fee for buying him in the first place, and common knowledge Rafa wasn’t happy with it; feeling it was far too high.

Where has this myth come from that he’s wasted money on shite players? Have a look through the lists above and try to point them out. There isn’t many.

The ones that haven’t worked out he’s moved on, and not very often has he made a financial loss on them.

The squad is now worth a hell of a lot more than the one he inherited, and that £83m net spend over 5 years is easily offset by the increased value of the squad. He’d recoup nearly all of that through the sale of Torres alone!

He’s worked absolute wonders with the money he’s had to spend. Then take into account the massive amounts of money he’s self generated by reaching the latter stages of the CL every season. Two final appearances, one win. That £83m he’s spent he’s earned the right to spend.

And when comparing it to what United have spent in the same period is flawed, as they already had a title winning squad and all the foundations in place. They weren’t rebuilding from scratch like we were. It also doesn’t take into account their massive wage bill.

When comparing to Chelsea, they spent all their money before Rafa came to the club and just topping up an already established squad.

Man City have spent more than double in the past 12 months than Rafa Benitez has in his 5 year reign.

Do some people still want to get rid of him? If so, you’ve been listening to Martin Tyler's Monkey and the hairy-handed halfwit for too much and unable to look at the facts yourself to form an opinion.

Every manager makes tactical mistakes. Every manager makes mistakes in the transfer market. Despite what the press seem to think; Rafael Benitez appears to make less mistakes than most.

We’re expected to win the league and European Cup on a budget and wage bill that is entitled to finish 4th or 5th in the league. We’ve been overachieving under Rafael Benitez, not underachieving.

I’m not even going to mention the environment he’s working in under them two clowns.

You’ll only miss him when he’s gone….


http://www.redandwhitekop.com/forum/index.php?topic=249365.0

bgees:

The Europa cup doesnt really look bad. the main thing is the EPL.

YNWA!

I personally don't like consoling myself but you're not far from the truth. . . . . . .

@ illie
pls don't cry or else me too I'll start crying ooo . Look on the bright side tho', there's always room for improvement. Unlike some teams who are a hopeless case .

Yall needed the most blatant dive in premier league history to get a point. Ngog should be banned for 9 months
Liverpool 2-2 Birmingham. . . Its gone shit at anfield.

Ngog 's own na real wa

not even a touch and he flew down like the Great CR7

Hahahahha!!