kunlebco:

guy u dey vex o

I'm a lover not a fighter

at all mumus,

i didnt mean up in arms to be carrying Ak47, what i meant is violent reactions and provocations, u all have jumped into conclusions, no jump enter hell fire te same way.

Like i have always said religion has its bad eggs and that has been our submission all along, but what do do i expect from imbeciles like Nwando, davididiot and the evil crew:


Tuesday, November 20, 2007Sermon on the mounts
The archbishop of an Atlanta megachurch took the pulpit recently to announce that he slept with his brother's wife and fathered a son with her. Earl Paulk, 80, of the Cathedral of the Holy Spirit, made the confession following the results of a court-ordered paternity test stemming from a lawsuit. In the suit a former church

wats going on here Huh seems like armageddon in here Shocked
what happened bout d discussion on d "teacher arrested in sudan over bear named muhammed" Huh Undecided

teacher is back in the UK , but we now have a nairaland sectarian crisis on our hand.

idupaul:

teacher is back in the UK , but we now have a nairaland sectarian crisis on our hand.

  ROTFL - sectarian crisis indeed! lol,

hafees:

at all mumus,

i didnt mean up in arms to be carrying Ak47, what i meant is violent reactions and provocations, u all have jumped into conclusions, no jump enter hell fire te same way.

Like i have always said religion has its bad eggs and that has been our submission all along, but what do do i expect from imbeciles like Nwando, davididiot and the evil crew:
Tuesday, November 20, 2007Sermon on the mounts
The archbishop of an Atlanta megachurch took the pulpit recently to announce that he slept with his brother's wife and fathered a son with her. Earl Paulk, 80, of the Cathedral of the Holy Spirit, made the confession following the results of a court-ordered paternity test stemming from a lawsuit. In the suit a former church

   Are you still quoting from the same article? there weren't any "violent reactions and provocations" from any of the people. "Up in arms" means to be upset- that's all! there's no hint of violence whatsoever!

  Yes every religion has its bad eggs - but none of them are calling for beheading, murder, death of those who 'disrespect' or violate or abuse their religion. That pastor slept with his brothers wife- a grave & horrible sin. But you won't hear anyone in the church call for his death or beheading. Instead you'll hear about forgiveness - as Jesus taught us.

hafees:

at all mumus,

i didnt mean up in arms to be carrying Ak47, what i meant is violent reactions and provocations, u all have jumped into conclusions, no jump enter hell fire te same way.

Like i have always said religion has its bad eggs and that has been our submission all along, but what do do i expect from imbeciles like Nwando, davididiot and the evil crew:


Tuesday, November 20, 2007Sermon on the mounts
The archbishop of an Atlanta megachurch took the pulpit recently to announce that he slept with his brother's wife and fathered a son with her. Earl Paulk, 80, of the Cathedral of the Holy Spirit, made the confession following the results of a court-ordered paternity test stemming from a lawsuit. In the suit a former church

They had a violent reaction yet no one was hurt.?
You are even a bigger mumu than I thought.
take your Use of Enlish GS 101 like a man and say thank you.
The reaction was at best carrying placards and asking people to boycott the movie

so religion has its bad eggs yet you are celebrating an adulterous archBishop as an Islamic conquest.
What he did was wrong,he knows it and all people know it.
Now how do we compare that with Islam that declares nine year old prepubertal girls ripe for marriage for 53 year old "prophets" and his followers
Which one is more of a cancer humanly speaking.

You will piss in your underwear very soon just wait.

JeSoul:

Are you still quoting from the same article? there weren't any "violent reactions and provocations" from any of the people. "Up in arms" means to be upset- that's all! there's no hint of violence whatsoever!

Yes every religion has its bad eggs - but none of them are calling for beheading, murder, death of those who 'disrespect' or violate or abuse their religion. That pastor slept with his brothers wife- a grave & horrible sin. But you won't hear anyone in the church call for his death or beheading. Instead you'll hear about forgiveness - as Jesus taught us.

don't mind him.
Even after olabowoles eloquent article that allah doesn't mind blockheads he's still talking
If the archbishop case was in Saudi,the woman would be beheaded for arousing an Imam.
The people think backwards

Nwando/david is a christian,Nwando/David are irresponsible, does this mean all christains are irresponsble? No, similarly not all Muslims exhibits the things you lament on this thread, so not all of them are terrorist. AM not posting the 'man of God's' case to swipe at christains, am just saying can we use his case to judge all christains especially as this trend is popular:

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Sex scandal hits Atlanta-area megachurch
Updated 16d ago | Comments313 | Recommend32 E-mail | Save | Print |




Digg del.icio.us Newsvine Reddit Facebook What's this? DECATUR, Ga. (AP) — The 80-year-old leader of a suburban Atlanta megachurch is at the center of a sex scandal of biblical dimensions: He slept with his brother's wife and fathered a child by her.
Members of Archbishop Earl Paulk's family stood at the pulpit of the Cathedral of the Holy Spirit at Chapel Hill Harvester Church a few Sundays ago and revealed the secret exposed by a recent court-ordered paternity test.

In truth, this is not the first — or even the second — sex scandal to engulf Paulk and the independent, charismatic church. But this time, he could be in trouble with the law for lying under oath about the affair.

The living proof of that lie is 34-year-old D.E. Paulk, who for years was known publicly as Earl Paulk's nephew.

"I am so very sorry for the collateral damage it's caused our family and the families hurt by the removing of the veil that hid our humanity and our sinfulness," said D.E. Paulk, who received the mantle of head pastor a year and a half ago.

D.E. Paulk said he did not learn the secret of his parentage until the paternity test. "I was disappointed, and I was surprised," he said.

Earl Paulk, his brother, Don, and his sister-in-law, Clariece, did not return calls for comment.

A judge ordered the test at the request of the Cobb County district attorney's office and the Georgia Bureau of Investigation, which are investigating Earl Paulk for possible perjury and false-swearing charges stemming from a lawsuit.

The archbishop, his brother and the church are being sued by former church employee Mona Brewer, who says Earl Paulk manipulated her into an affair from 1989 to 2003 by telling her it was her only path to salvation. Earl Paulk admitted to the affair in front of the church last January.

In a 2006 deposition stemming from the lawsuit, the archbishop said under oath that the only woman he had ever had sex with outside of his marriage was Brewer. But the paternity test said otherwise.

So far no charges have been filed against Earl Paulk. District Attorney Pat Head and GBI spokesman John Bankhead would not comment.

The shocking results of the paternity test are speeding up a transformation already underway in the church after more than a decade of sex scandals and lawsuits involving the Paulks, D.E. Paulk said.

"It was a necessary evil to bring us back to a God-consciousness," said the younger Paulk, explaining that the church had become too personality-driven and prone to pastor worship.

The flashy megachurch began in 1960 with just a few dozen members in the Little Five Points neighborhood of Atlanta. Now, it is in the suburbs on a 100-acre expanse, a collection of buildings surrounding a neo-Gothic cathedral.

For years the church was at the forefront of many social movements — admitting black members in the 1960s, ordaining women and opening its doors to gays.

At its peak in the early 1990s, it claimed about 10,000 members and 24 pastors and was a media powerhouse. By soliciting tithes of 10% from each member's income, the church was able to build a Bible college, two schools, a worldwide TV ministry and a $12 million sanctuary the size of a fortress.

Today, though, membership is down to about 1,500, the church has 18 pastors, most of them volunteers, and the Bible college and TV ministry have shuttered — a downturn blamed largely on complaints about the alleged sexual transgressions of the elder Paulks.

In 1992, a church member claimed she was pressured into a sexual relationship with Don Paulk. Other women also claimed they had been coerced into sex with Earl Paulk and other members of the church's administration.

The church countered with a $24 million libel suit against seven former church members. The lawsuit was later dropped.

Jan Royston, who left the church in 1992, started an online support group for former members to discuss their crushed faith and hurt feelings.

"This is a cult. And you escape from a cult," she said. "We all escaped."

These days, Earl Paulk has a much-reduced role at the cathedral, giving 10-minute lectures as part of Sunday morning worship each week.

"My uncle is 100% guilty, but his accusers are guilty as well," D.E. Paulk said, declining to talk further about the lawsuits.

Copyright 2007 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material

nwando:

don't mind him.
Even after olabowoles eloquent article that allah doesn't mind blockheads he's still talking
If the archbishop case was in Saudi,the woman would be beheaded for arousing an Imam.
The people think backwards

  LOL Nwando, have you ever thot about going into comedy?

No, similarly not all Muslims exhibits the things you lament on this thread, so not all of them are terrorist.

  True not all muslims are terrorists, but so far all the terrorists have been muslims!
Isn't this a disturbing trend worth the attention of the "true muslims" everywhere? what are the "peaceful" muslims doing about this?

hafees:

Nwando/david is a christian,Nwando/David are irresponsible, does this mean all christains are irresponsble? No, similarly not all Muslims exhibits the things you lament on this thread, so not all of them are terrorist. AM not posting the 'man of God's' case to swipe at christains, am just saying can we use his case to judge all christains especially as this trend is popular:

If I start talking of actions of Muslims individually,nairaland will crash and Seun will be out of business.
All one needs to see are

1.Allah's commands
2.Mohammeds actions
3.Islamic laws

and these 3 smell of cows manure.
did you see my former clip where "almighty allah" and his sharia allows little infant girls to be fingered by grown men like yourself.
That is what I expose.
The Saudi princes frolicking with their fellow men or the dan dauds of Kotangora are small fries.
what would Mohammed do?
That is the question and boy,did he do plenty.

Enjoy this clip of the filth called Islam.Only 5 minutes in length.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=16je0v1M2gM

JeSoul:


LOL Nwando, have you ever thot about going into comedy?

LOL

let me go eat lunch.
Halfsense,I'll reply you later.
today na today

If the only crimes Muslims committed in the name of allah was sleep with their sisters in law and impregnate them to[i] born [/i] twins, would we be having this discussion?
We are talking about allah's warriors wanting to behead us for free speech or just because they love to see blood and you are talking of a randy bishop in Atlanta

Muslim stabs wife when daughter becomes Christian in Australia

"If children fail, the mother is at fault and will bear the brunt of the blame."

A devout Muslim woman was attacked and stabbed to death, allegedly by her husband, after their 17-year-old daughter announced she was embracing Christianity, according to police and news reports.

Officials say Dr. Muhammad Hussain, 48, remained in critical condition in the Gold Coast Hospital with knife wounds, under police guard, as authorities investigated the death from stabbing injuries of his wife, Yasmine, 41.

According to Assist News Service, neighbors of the Australian family reported "blood curdling" and "terrifying" screams, along with cries of "Help me, help me, they’re trying to kill me," on Monday night. Shortly after, the report said, Kaihana Hussain fled from the family’s apartment, dressed in underwear because her clothes had been torn off, with blood splattered over her scratched and cut body.

Police found the mother inside the apartment, dead, and the father seriously hurt. It was not immediately clear how the father was also stabbed.

"From what we understand the daughter decided to tell her father of her radical plan to convert to Christianity which, in the eyes of most Muslims, is totally unacceptable and to be honest, sadly, many would react as he has done," a Muslim source told "The Gold Coast Bulletin."

"It is the Islamic way that if a son or daughter does or plans to do something that is unacceptable or wrong for a Muslim then it is the mother who is automatically at fault and will bear the brunt of the blame," the source said.

http://sweetness-light.com/archive/muslim-kills-wife-because-daughters-christian-conversion

let's see what allah says about this in some authentic hadiths.
The animal above only acted as allah and his messenger instructed.

Bukhari, volume 9, #17

"Narrated Abdullah: Allah's Messenger said, "The blood of a Muslim who confesses that none has the right to be worshipped but Allah and that I am His Messenger, cannot be shed except in three cases: in Qisas (equality in punishment) for murder, a married person who commits illegal sexual intercourse and the one who reverts from Islam (Apostate) and leaves the Muslims."

Bukhari, volume 9, #57

Narrated Ikrima, "Some atheists were brought to Ali and he burnt them. The news of this event, reached Ibn Abbas who said, "If I had been in his place, I would not have burnt them, as Allah's messenger forbade it, saying, "Do not punish anybody with Allah's punishment (fire)." I would have killed them according to the statement of Allah's Messenger, "Whoever changed his Islamic religion, then kill him."
Bukhari, volume 9, #58

Narrated Abu Bruda, "Abu Musa said, Behold there was a fettered man beside Abu Musa. Muadh asked, "Who is this (man)?" A[b]bu Musa said, "He was a Jew and became a Muslim and hen reverted back to Judaism." Then Abu Musa requested Muadh to sit down but Muadh said, "I will not sit down till he has been killed. This is the judgment of Allah and his messenger," and repeated it thrice. Then Abu Musa ordered that the man be killed[/b], and he was killed. Abu Musa added, "Then we discussed the night prayers ,

hafees:

at all mumus,

i didnt mean up in arms to be carrying Ak47, what i meant is violent reactions and provocations, u all have jumped into conclusions, no jump enter hell fire te same way.

Like i have always said religion has its bad eggs and that has been our submission all along, but what do do i expect from imbeciles like Nwando, davididiot and the evil crew:


Tuesday, November 20, 2007Sermon on the mounts
The archbishop of an Atlanta megachurch took the pulpit recently to announce that he slept with his brother's wife and fathered a son with her. Earl Paulk, 80, of the Cathedral of the Holy Spirit, made the confession following the results of a court-ordered paternity test stemming from a lawsuit. In the suit a former church

yeye. .
after dem don educate you, na im u wan claim say you know. .

we know that "up in arms" for you muslims means to go into the streets with your arms up with machetes and AKs, yelling death to america and looking for heads and limbs to chop off!!

A MUSLIM businessman was jailed for life yesterday for murdering his daughter's boyfriend to prevent them marrying, in the latest "honour killing".

Mustaq Ahmed, 40, a factory owner, killed Rexhep Hasani, a Christian Albanian, when he realised he could not end his relationship with his 16-year-old daughter, Sadhia.

The Old Bailey heard how Mr Hasani, 22, was tied, gagged, beaten and asphyxiated in October last year after being lured into Ahmed's dress factory in north London.

Ahmed disapproved of the relationship despite Mr Hasani's efforts to become culturally acceptable to the Muslim family. Mr Hasani had changed his name to a Muslim one and the couple had spoken of plans for an Islamic wedding.

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qn4158/is_20031008/ai_n12719741

At least he was arrested!

Seun:

At least he was arrested!

becos it happened in London.
Had this been in the average islamic state we all know he would have been honored instead.

A MUSLIM father yesterday admitted murdering his 16-year-old daughter for the “dishonour” she brought on the family by sleeping with her boyfriend.
Abdalla Yones stabbed his daughter, Heshu, at least 11 times and cut her throat with a kitchen knife.

Two days before the murder he had been sent an anonymous letter from a fellow Kurd which branded Heshu a prostitute and a slut for sleeping with her boyfriend, an 18-year-old Lebanese Christian.

He was horrified at what he regarded as a stain on the family’s name and, desperate to restore his honour, stabbed his daughter to death at their flat in Acton, West London, before attempting to kill himself by slashing his own throat and throwing himself off a 25-ft balcony.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/article1164540.ece

younger brother kills elder brother in a restaurant for being a bad muslim

"He was a believer in Satan," Najib said about his elder brother.

He then dropped his knife, placed the chairs and tables back in place, then sat down while waiting for the police.

Mohammad Ibnzakour described the defendant as a scholar of Islam.

"He has a good understanding of Islam. I would regularly ask him questions about Islam. He would answer. He taught me," he remembered.

But Najib was also a conservative practitioner, who qualified those who were not observant as "deviant."

Ibnzakour’s testimony caused loud sobbing from the defendant.

http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/016801.php

Some people just post  whatever that they find so that they may stoke the fire of hatred.
Is this what it comes down to? Is there no shame in dishonesty?

First, does every woman reach puberty, the same age? If the answer is no, how can we
with any sense make a general statement without taking into consideration, the time and
place of the event we are discussing: First, as badly as the Idol worshippers wanted to
shut Muhammad up, no one called him a liar and no one used the matter of Aisha's marriage
to accuse him! Aisha was not from underprivileged back ground, so his father could stand up
for her. Never did she complained that she was forced to marriage. Even after the death of
the Noble soul Muhammad, and in the war that occurred whereby Aisha was against Ali bin
Abi talib, she did not at any time complain about her marriage!

How can any woman, who if it was not by the mercy of Allah through Muhammad, I Olabowale
could have paid enough US Dollar or Naira, whatever her choice of currency, to have had her
under Muttah, just for the fun of it. That is if she is pretty, because I do have my standard.

I ask this question of the scholar, who knows nothing about true scholarship: When was Aisha born?
Was it after or before her father Abi Bakr entered Islam? Did her father have any new baby after he
embraced Islam? When was she married to the Prophet? When was the marriage consummated?
After thorough research, you will know the true age of Aisha, the mother of the believers.

nwando

Inshallah, no more. Try this analysis on for size, Quran 4:137:

Behold, as for those who come to believe, and then deny the truth, and again come to believe, and again deny the truth, and thereafter grow stubborn in their denial of the truth - God will not forgive them, nor will He guide them in any way.

Logically, If God wanted apostates dead, then why in this verse does Allah entertain the prospect of repeated belief and disbelief? Yes, God is saying that he will not forgive such people, but he is not saying that they ought to be killed.

If I start talking of actions of Muslims individually,nairaland will crash and Seun will be out of business.
All one needs to see are

1.Allah's commands (That those who associate anything with Him, will burn in the fire of Hell)
2.Mohammeds actions (That Allah alone is the One to be worshipped and Muhammad is His last Messenger)
3.Islamic laws (Stops me from doing evils. I could have tried Muttah, but it against Allah's commandments)

and these 3 smell of cows manure. (Cow manure has its value).

did you see my former clip where "almighty allah" and his sharia allows little infant girls to be fingered by grown men like yourself.
That is what I expose.(And some grown women are itching to be fingered. But the mercy of Allah through Muhammad prevent many no to Muttah her).

The Saudi princes frolicking with their fellow men or the dan dauds of Kotangora are small fries. (Among men, there are evil doers. Look at the wife of Prophet Lut. Look at the son and wife of prophet Nuuh. The Arab princes are not sons of prophets. How naive can a fellow be to be using them as the identity card of Islam. The religion that has tamed many, me).

what would Muhammad do? (His admonishment had stopped me cold in my track, from all kind of evil. I could tried the Muttah on many, but is against Allah's laws and commandments, after the Victory of Makka)
That is the question and boy,did he do plenty.

Enjoy this clip of the filth called Islam.Only 5 minutes in length.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=16je0v1M2gM (Clearly, the woman is complaining about Bahrain. It does not cover all Muslims. Further, she is not leaving Islam. Her complaint demonstrated that women do have voice and needed to be heard, louder and clearer.

mdsocks:

nwando

Inshallah, no more. Try this analysis on for size, Quran 4:137:

Behold, as for those who come to believe, and then deny the truth, and again come to believe, and again deny the truth, and thereafter grow stubborn in their denial of the truth - God will not forgive them, nor will He guide them in any way.

Logically, folks. If God wanted apostates dead, then why in this verse does Allah entertain the prospect of repeated belief and disbelief? Yes, God is saying that he will not forgive such people, but he is not saying that they ought to be killed.

Sadly the hadiths I earlier quoted and sharia laws says kill apostates
Mohammed killed and ordered apostates killed
You are actually in the minority and risk a beheading for saying this in some quarters.
But ride on,you may win converts with your politically correct Islam.
That's what the world is looking for.
An army of tolerant,peaceful Muslims
I wish I could clone you and replace these head hunters that are bent on following the sick examples of Mohammed.
keep your peaceful ways
I like your style, we all like your style

mdsocks:

Logically, folks. If God wanted apostates dead, then why in this verse does Allah entertain the prospect of repeated belief and disbelief? Yes, God is saying that he will not forgive such people, but he is not saying that they ought to be killed.

mdsocks,

From the look of things, you wont last too long anymore in Islam. You know why? Your mind is somewhat peaceful. Forget all the hot exchanbges we have all had on this sensitive issues. I think you are cool headed and have the grace to keep your sanity intact.

Obviously, you would be labelled as a weak muslim were you to be in the midst of core adherents. In the north in those days, hausa muslims killed the yoruba muslims during the dirty religious cruises. Till today, the hausa muslims still believe that their style of worship is far more representative of the true islam than the yorubas.

Now, back to the verses you qouted. Logically, those verses sound graceful as they at least give opportunities to "erring" people but that is why when muslims talk about contradictions in the bible, i laugh because they have nottaken time to really study their quran and (authentic) hadiths. If they do, they will not look at reporting error or typographical errors and call it errors at all. You willagree with me that the verses you qouted have very sharp contradictions to the ones nwado posted. That is a contradiction because two conflicting modes of conducts have been presented on the same issue of apostacy. So, which ever approach you take as a muslim in dealing with the issues, you arestill correct because at least a verse supports you.

If you look at the call of Mohammad where he tried to give accounts of his call unto "prophethood", he gave four differing accounts. Imean very different accounts. You know the story i guess. That gives me a cuase for serious concern because it invariably means the "prophet" could not really substantiate his call. At one pointhe said it was angel gabriel. later he said it was allah himself who came down on two other occassion, different stories.

Back to the topic, i think people like you have a lonmg way to go and would meet with very stiff opposition if not even cost you your life if you dare try to preach tolerance to your brothers. Do not bother to do it. It will be too costly 'cos someone qwould just plot your death. Please remain conservative and do not expose your calm / peaceful mindset amidst muslims very easily. It might be used against you.

Its good night from me.

@Focus: You should defend Jesus and others 'Bible prophets' as non Muslims in the thread that is
appropriate for it. The thread is already open.  

Yes, Jesus knows the bible. When he was tempted by the devil, he quoted some verses in the bible to put the devil at bay. (How could he have known the Bible? Your Bible is NT, aint it? (Thats Ebonics for is it not?). If at all Jesus quoted anything, it must be Torah, given to Moses. It is the religious Book of the Jews. The last time I check will my Attorneys and my Jewish associates, they will never call it the Bible and never have the NT in their religious literatures. They do not even believe that Jesus existed more than an ordinary man, a Rabbi at best.)

does he know there are people called xtians ?

Christian is derived from the word Christ. Christianity has been existing before the satanic religion Islam was founded by the terrorist you called muhammed. (Just because you name something after somebody, may not directly translate to the approval of that person. Especially, since Jesus was not here to defend and recluse himself from any and all associations with Christianity, then your argument is not even a good beginning. We read in the Qur'an, in Surah An Am, Chapter 6, towards the end, that Ibrahim, said that he was the first to be Muslim, in his generation. I wonder how he knew that word, Muslim? Except other believers like him, Noah, etc have exhibited the same qualities that can be used to define the word Muslim in Islam. Further in Surah Araf, the Height, we read that Moses said that he was the first to be a believer  (Mumiin), in his generation. Rightfully so, they were prophets of Allah Almighty Creator. In Surah Al Maidah, Chapter 5, in the beginning of it, we read that the religion of Islam was completed on Muhammad, as a perfect favor of choice of religion to mankind. Completion, indicates that there was a beginning sometimes before the completion time is arrived at.)

Christianity has been existing in Saudi Arabia and other middle east countries before the birth of Islamic religion. If you don't know, then go and read properly, or even ask any Islamic scholar who knows Islam very well. Your problem is gross Ignorance and may God deliver you from satanic ignorance.
(It is true that Christianity and other religions, eg Judaism have been in existence of the completed favor of God, by His Revelation of Qur'an and Islam to Muhammad. This however would not mean that Islam was not in existence before any of the numerous religions. The definition of Islam points to submission, hence, the first man, Adam was a Muslim, bowing his will to his Creator. Ibrahim, who was a more recent man compared to Adam, was not a Jew nor was he a Christian, in religious beliefs.

@Olabowale :

When I say the bible. Do you really know what bible means ?

In case you don't know what bible means, let me explain it succintly :

Bible is a sacred collection of writings of Judaism and Christianity, by men inspired by God.

The Bible is often called the Holy Bible, Scriptures, or Word of God. It is divided into two parts: the books of the Old Testament primarily sourced from the Tanakh (Is the Jewish version of the bible), The Tanakh includes the books common to Christians and jewish biblical cannons(which is 33 books) and the 27 books of the New Testament containing books originally written primarily in Greek. Al together making it 66 books.

During Jesus earthly ministry, they don't have the type of bible that we have now. So I hope you know what I mean, when I say the bible.

Islam was founded in the 7th century by The Arab prophet (Muhammed).

Islamic religion never existed before. It was a religion manufactured by the Kingdom of darkness because the devil himself can transform himself to an angel of light, and muhammed was deceived by the devil and other satanic principalities. If the religion comes from God as you claim, what type of fruit is it producing ?

Muslims believe that salvation is based on the works of your own hand not by grace   .

If Islamic religion is from God as you claim, why do you muslims worship black stone   ? Of wish its headquarter of this eastern satanic darkness is mecca.

Why do you propagate your religion by using force   ?

If the religion is from God, why not let God reveal himself to human being ?

If your religion is from God, why do you kill anyone who converts to christianity   ? Muhammed was able to spread the religion by using aggressive force on people and the people of Mecca and Medina, out of fear accepted the religion   There is one thing I want you to know, and that is : force can only work for a while, but convincing people works longer. ( The fact that force is being used shows that it is not from God. All these are satanic characteristics).

Why does Islamic religion  promotes Jihad   ? Why are muslim clerics engineering people to go and kill themselves or become a martyr ? Why do they have an urge to kill senselessly   ?

If your religion is from God as you claim, why is a quarter moon and star its symbol   ? Do you know the meaning of a quarter moon and star ? Have you lived in a riverine area before ? If you have you will know what I mean.

If your religion is from God, why is aggressive violence associated with it   ? Why are Islamist so blood thirsty   ? We have seen before and is happening and it will happen ?

If your religion is from God, why is it promoting polygamy   ? When polygamy have clearly put people in trouble. Abraham diverted against the will of God by listening to Sarah and as a result, he had Ishmael through Hagar and see what the consequences are and the trouble we are facing. When God have already made it clear that the promise child will come from Sarah. Polygamy is adultery and a threat to the holy institution of marriage created by God.

You mentioned something interesting here and that is : Adam the first creature was a muslim ( Can you prove it ?), If you say Islam was existing before can you prove it ? Is this the way you have been brainwashed or the way you been brainwashing people ?

No disrespect Ola, but we really have learn from each other.

Omoobajesu, learn the truth and God directed his path, maybe you could borrow a leaf from him. May God guide us to the path of truth

olabowale:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=16je0v1M2gM (Clearly, the woman is complaining about Bahrain. It does not cover all Muslims. Further, she is not leaving Islam. Her complaint demonstrated that women do have voice and needed to be heard, louder and clearer.

Yes she is not leaving Islam yet but obviously disgusted by it's teachings.
She is complaining about sharia in Bahrain yes,but isn't it based on Islamic teachings?
This is the typical muslims excuse

They are talking about Bahrain it does not apply to all Muslims
It applies to Pakistanis and Turks not all musl ims
It only happens in the arab world,it is their culture
or it's only the Northern Nigerian muslims that do so
and this one pertains to Malaysians and Saudis not all muslims

when will Muslims look in the Koran and hadiths plus Islamic laws of these lands and see that these actions are so Islamic
when will you come out and condemn evil rather than looking for cheap excuses.
with these denials you only prove our argument that Islam is inherently evil.
How come wherever you reside these ills show up,from Sudan to Afghanistan all in the name of Islam.
The only thing they share in common
Has anyone bothered to ask?

Hopefully some of these things have made some of you dig deep into the fraud brought by Muhammad
Hopefully a seed has been sown and would cause some smart ones to wake up

@Olabowale :

What I have written below shows that Islamic religion is not from God, but from the satanic kingdom :

KORAN ON JEWS AND CHRISTIANS
(Surah 5:51) do not take the Jews and Christians as friends.

Bukhari (52:177) - "The Hour will not be established until you fight with the Jews, and the stone behind which a Jew is hiding say. "O Muslim! There is a Jew hiding behind me, so kill him."

TERRORISM
Surah (8:12) - "Allah will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them"
Sura (9:14) - "Fight the disbelievers, Allah will punish them by your hands and bring them to disgrace, "
Sura (9:5) - kill the idolaters wherever you find them, and take them captives and besiege them and lie in wait for them in every ambush, leave them only if they repent and pray and give alms

Abuse a muslim, pay with your life
Surah (2:191-193) - kill the disbelievers wherever you find them, and drive them out of the places where they drove you out, for persecution of Muslims is worse than slaughter of disbelievers, so fight them until persecution is no more, and religion of Allah reigns supreme.

All Muslims urged to fight the Unbelievers
Surah (4:95) - "Not equal are those believers who sit at home and receive no hurt, and those who strive and fight in the cause of Allah with their goods and their persons. Allah hath granted a grade higher to those who strive and fight with their goods and persons than to those who sit (at home). Unto all (in Faith) Hath Allah promised good: But those who strive and fight Hath He distinguished above those who sit (at home) by a special reward

@focus/nonsense
empty head, empty talk. silence is the best answer for a fool

@Half sense :

You make me laugh because you know what I am saying is right. If it is not, why not intelligently state your views.

Your head is full of sawdust. There is nothing in your skull but mere sawdust. It is a pity that your satanic prophet Muhammed have removed your brain and replace it with sawdust that is why you cannot reason clearly.

God is merciful and he will deliver you.

osisi, pack up this thread jare.

Due lack of education and critical thinking several myths have taken root in the Muslim world over the ages, and there have not been any efforts in the past to clear these doubts. On the contrary, there has been a sort of effort to strengthen these myths and misconceptions. These misinterpretations of Islamic teachings have taken their toll on the Muslim world and have strengthened a misplaced perception that Islam is a symbol of obscurantism, a religion of intolerance and answers everything with the sword.


And there is no bigger misconception-strengthened with misunderstanding of Islamic beliefs over the years-other than the belief that Islam doesn't tolerate apostasy.

The Christian missionaries and the Western world are cashing in on it. Ulama have tried to strengthen their point of view and several leading Muslim reformists have failed to tackle the issue.

This misconception has also presented Islam as a medieval and killer religion. Islam bashers like you Nwando have time and again tried to carry the point by pointing out that Islam orders the killing of a person if he or she reverts to another religion from Islam.

Nobody is forthcoming to challenge this widely held belief as well as put forth a convincing argument about the misinterpretation of Qur'anic teachings by Ulama.

The Qur’an is completely silent on any worldly punishment for apostasy and the sole Tradition that forms the basis of rulings is open to many interpretations.

Prophet (pbuh) is reported to have said: ‘Whosoever changes his religion, Kill Him (man baddala Dinahu faqtuluhu)’”. It is this last quote from the Prophet that forms the basis of the said ruling.


Finally, there is the crucial dispute over the nature of the punishment and the crime. Al-Nakha’ee and, according to Sha’rani, al-Thawri, hold that the apostate is a grave sinner who should however be continuously called back to the fold for the rest of his life, and not killed. By implication, they do not consider the offence a hadd (fixed penalty) offence with a fixed punishment that must be carried out.

He then adds in the case of apostasy “renunciation of the faith and conversion to disbelief is admittedly the greatest of offences, yet it is a matter between man and his Creator, and its punishment is postponed to the day of Judgement. (“fa’l jaza’ ‘alayha mu’akhkhar ila dar al-jaza”).


If repentance is accepted, then apostasy is not a hadd offence with a fixed punishment.

Secondly, once scholars accept that a Muslim apostate has the right to be given the opportunity to repent, they lose the right to set a time limit for his repentance.

Allah (SWT) says in the Glorious Qur’an (39: 53-54: Say: “ O you servants of Mine who have transgressed against your own selves! Despair not of God’s mercy. Behold God forgives all sins, for verily He is much forgiving, a dispenser of grace! Hence, turn toward your sustainer and surrender yourselves unto him before the suffering (of death and resurrection) comes upon you for then you will not be succored.”


Any scholar who says the death sentence applies to leaving the faith, then the convict is to be given a life-time to repent. One must conclude that the death sentence is not for “simple apostasy” (mujarrad al-ridda), but for apostasy accompanied by treason and sedition, or by the abuse and slander (sabb) of the Noble Prophet.

Freedom to convert to or from Islam

"Everyone has the right to freedom of thought, conscience and religion; this right includes freedom to change his religion or belief, and freedom, either alone or in community with others and in public or private, to manifest his religion or belief in teaching, practice, worship and observance." Article 18 of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights.

The Glorious Qur'an says, "Let there be no compulsion in the religion: Surely the Right Path is clearly distinct from the crooked path." Al Baqarah, 2:256.


"Those who believe, then disbelieve, then believe again, then disbelieve, and then increase in their disbelief - Allah will never forgive them nor guide them to the path." Surah An-Nisa', 4:137.

For example, the Qur'an says:
"Let him who wishes to believe, do so; and let him who wishes to disbelieve, do so." (Al-Kahf: 29)


In another verse, Allah Almighty says: "Yours is only the duty to convey the message; you are not a guardian over them." (Al-Ghashiyah: 21- 22)


The quotation from Surah An-Nisa', 4:137, shown above, seems to imply that multiple, sequential apostasies are possible. [size=14pt]That would not be possible if the person were executed after the first apostasy.[/b[/size]]

From the above verses it can be argued that religious freedom and the absence of compulsion in religion requires that individuals be allowed adopt a religion or to convert to another religion without legal penalty.

[b]Hence the death penalty is not an appropriate response to apostasy.


Muslims who support the death penalty for apostasy use as their foundation the above cited hadith, in which the Prophet (pbuh) is reported to have said: "Kill whoever changes his religion."


But this is a weak foundation because this hadith was only transmitted from Muhammad (pbuh) by one individual. It was not confirmed by a second person. According to Islamic law, this is insufficient confirmation to impose the death penalty. The Shari`ah has not fixed any punishment for apostasy.


Many scholars interpret this passage as referring only to instances of high treason. (e.g. declaring war on Islam, Muhammad (pbuh), God, etc.).
There is no historical record, which indicates that Muhammad (pbuh) or any of his companions ever sentenced anyone to death for apostasy.


The question of apostasy has been debated among scholars based on their interpretations of some hadiths since the Qur'an does not specify any worldly punishment for it. For example, there was a case at the time of the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) where a man came to him in three consecutive days and told him that he wanted to apostate. The Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) never took any action against him, and when the man finally left Madina, the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) never sent anyone to arrest him, let alone kill him.



This is why some scholars distinguished between individual apostasy and apostasy which is accompanied by high treason. So, it cannot be confused with the freedom of conscience for every individual, which has been guaranteed in the Qur'an through hundreds of verses.

For example, one version of a hadith narrated by `A'isha (RA) concerning apostasy relates to one who left his religion and fought against Muslims.

QUR'ANIC VIEWS

The Qur’an has referred to the issue of apostasy at more than one place (for example see Al-Baqarah 2: 217, Al-Baqarah 2: 108, A’l Imra’n 3: 90, Al-Nisa’ 4: 137 and Al-Nahl 16: 106). But at none of these places does the Qur’an mention the punishment of death for such people who change their religion. The Qur’an does mention that such people shall face a terrible punishment in the hereafter but no worldly punishment is mentioned at any of these instances in the Qur’an.

This situation obviously raises a question mark in the mind of the reader that if Allah had wanted to give the punishment of an apostate a permanent position in the Shari`ah, the punishment should have been mentioned, at least at one of the above mentioned places. If the Qur’an had kept completely silent about the apostate, the matter would have been different. But the strange thing is that the Qur’an mentions apostasy, and still does not mention the punishment (if any) it wants the apostate to be subjected to.

Furthermore, the Qur’an has strictly disallowed the imposition of the death penalty except in two specific cases. One of them is where the person is guilty of murdering another person and the other is where a person is guilty of creating unrest in the country (fasa’d fil-ardh) like being involved in activities that create unrest in a society, for example activities like terrorism etc. The Qur’an says:

Whoever kills a person without his being guilty of murder or of creating unrest in the land, is as though he kills the whole of mankind. (Al-Ma’idah, 5: 32)


Obviously, apostasy can neither be termed as "murder" nor "creating unrest in the land".


Thus, in view of the above facts, we are left with one option only. We can only say that either the saying has been wrongly ascribed to the Prophet (pbuh), as it is clearly contradictory to the Qur’an and the Prophet could not have said anything contradictory to the Qur’an, or that the saying ascribed to the Prophet (pbuh) relates not to all apostates but to a particular and specific people.



Misinterpretation of the hadith, Man baddala Dinahu faqtuluh (kill him who changes his religion) has caused the problem. This order has been made to look general and permanent, though it was said in a particular circumstance for a particular group.

This order was made to counter a scheme prepared by Jews of Madinah. They had planned that some of them embrace Islam for some time and then return to their old religion. Then some other people do the same. It was aimed to create restlessness among Muslims against their own leadership so that the strong Muslim unity should start crumbling. It was made clear in Qur'an in (Aal Imran, 3: 72-73).

To counter this planning the Prophet (SAW) ordered his companions to act in such a manner. Despite this order lengthy investigations were made to ascertain that the case was true and the person concerned was given adequate time to explain before the punishment was carried out.

Lack of clear grasp of Qur'an misguided even leading Ulama. Otherwise it was not difficult to understand the hadith. Qur'anic teachings on the issue were not kept in mind.

Nwando i think this as laid to rest the misconception about the hadith you have quoted.
If you have got any questions about it, you might post it when the forum is open,
Or conatct me through my mail fur further explanation. mdsocks@fastmail.fm

but why,my dogs name sounds much similar

TOH:

osisi, pack up this thread jare.

Jesus is Lord!!!!!!!!!!!
TOH where have you been?
I missed you soooooooooooooo much
I even missed fighting with you
did you find a man and abandoned us at nairaland LOL.
give the man his time and give nairaland it's time LOL
I'm sure david missed you too
welcome back