nyameke: @Buzugee nice breakdown but where I disagree is alluding to the sons of God been from Seth line and daughter of men from Cain's line
.. the ‘daughters of men’ can hardly be restricted to only the daughters of the Cainites.

@ Goshen The sons of God as used in that context just means angels. I will see if I can connect everything for you tomorow. It's been a long day and I have to head home but I will leave you with these two quotes concerning sons of God for you to ponder on..

Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the Lord, Satan also came among them (Job 1:6).

Again there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the Lord, and Satan came among them to present himself before the Lord (Job 2:1)

with regards to the sons of God coming from seth ? it is speculatory. it is irrelevant even. i am not the one who mentioned seth. that was Frosbel. however we do know that there was a righteous line being referred to as the sons of God. The daughters of men are definitely from the line of cain. they were considered very pretty ( because they had the mark of cain, loss of melanin ) and ungodly ( because their progenitor cain was ostracized and was a vagabond of the earth with no message from God. just a walking zombie with no purpose )

buzugee: lets put it like this. you Goshen, are here a lot trying to spread the message of God. you are a messenger of God. you were appointed to do what you are doing here on nairaland ( proverbs 20 vs 24 A man's goings are of the LORD; how then can man understand his way? ). so you are an angel. you Goshen are an angel. its as simple as that. just read the gen 6 vs 2-4. its the same thing. the sons of God will be the children of those still loyal to God while the sons and daughters of man will be the children of the dissenter which will be the children of cain. cain was now a vagabond of the earth and his descendants. they are the dissenters. rejected by God. so they are the sons of man. those still aligned with the purpose and mission of God will be the sons of God. TECHNICALLY BOTH FACTIONS ARE HUMAN BEINGS. this is why they can have sex with each other. its like my son having sex with logicboys daughter. logicboys heathen daughter will be the daughter of man while my son will be the sons of God.
ANGEL simply means MESSENGER OF GOD.

bia, ka logic boy nwetakwa gi...ife o ga-agwa gi eh...

buzugee: lets put it like this. you Goshen, are here a lot trying to spread the message of God. you are a messenger of God. you were appointed to do what you are doing here on nairaland ( proverbs 20 vs 24 A man's goings are of the LORD; how then can man understand his way? ). so you are an angel. you Goshen are an angel. its as simple as that. just read the gen 6 vs 2-4. its the same thing. the sons of God will be the children of those still loyal to God while the sons and daughters of man will be the children of the dissenter which will be the children of cain. cain was now a vagabond of the earth and his descendants. they are the dissenters. rejected by God. so they are the sons of man. those still aligned with the purpose and mission of God will be the sons of God. TECHNICALLY BOTH FACTIONS ARE HUMAN BEINGS. this is why they can have sex with each other. its like my son having sex with logicboys daughter. logicboys heathen daughter will be the daughter of man while my son will be the sons of God.
ANGEL simply means MESSENGER OF GOD.

bia, ka logic boy nwetakwa gi...ife o ga-agwa gi eh...

LOL i am about to give you the perfect example of a nephilim in todays world. OSAZE ODEMWINGIE. His father is an israelite ( igbo man ). he is probably a fallen israelite and is into worshipping amadioha and other igbo gods. He sleeps with the daughter of man ( the descendant of cain with the mark of cain ) a white woman. and they have a son who has gone on to do great things. he is a giant. OSAZE IS A NEPHILIM or at least would be one if he lived in biblical times.

.

Goshen360:

Gat you bro. Funny though However, the people believed the sons of God in Gen. 6:2-4 were fallen angels. That is what we are treating and looking at. I don't also believe they are fallen angels in the context of Gen.6:2-4 but children of God who pervert themselves as you mentioned in your example (perfect example though) because the sons of God in that context don't carry the nature of the daughters of men meaning the sons of God in that context are people of God who carry the nature of God in them because they now know God.

Because if they were fallen angels that mate with daughters of men to produce "giants", and after that was the flood, then were did another "giants" came from during the accounts of the spies sent to spy the Canaan Land? If they were fallen angels that produced giants, and the flood wiped them out, there will be no more mention of giants anymore in the account of the spies.

...jesus brought us d nature of god. So y say pple carried d nature of god back then in genesis when we know they were dead cos of sin?

Interesting this is being discussed here. I completed a thesis on this pericope. Due to be published, this an extract from the abstract: "Having carefully weighed the various interpretations regarding the identification of the Sons of God in Gen. 6: 1-4, this work rejects the Sethite-Cainite interpretation and the royal aristocracy theory. It consequently suggests that the term, the Sons of God, in this passage, implies supernatural beings (traditionally, angels).

Pastor Kun: hmmm very dicey topic that most brethen like to avoid. For me you can't fully understand this passage well without delving into the book of enoch. Even though some christians would not touch the book of enoch because it is not one of the canonised books by the mainstream christian churches.[some christian denominations such as the ethiopean orthodox church have the book of enoch in their biblical canon]. The book of enoch is also referenced in the book of Jude 1:14-15. Anyway my point is that the story in genesis 6:2-4 is repeatd in more detail in the book of enoch and reading the book of enoch might shed more light on the subject matter.

Absolutely agree with you. You cannot fully explicate this pericope without gleaning insights from the Book of Enoch.


Academic biblical exegetical studies in non-confessional theology departments in secular European and North American universities is a far cry from all these sermonising and rationalisations going on here!

the kind thing wey dey worry religious people, na wa o

Ah ha.
The bible readers are once again confused about what is written in the bible. Lost in in translation, perhaps?
This part of the scripture is carefully avoided because the more you probe, the more the likelyhood that you might run into some unsettling answers, Answers that are guranteed to bring even more confusion to the infallible word of god.

First,do we believe the words of the bible to be absolute truth or at least close to the true events as they were understood by the scribes?

"The nephilim were in the earth in those days".
This implies that a class of beings who were non-human were cohabiting with humans in those days. Right?
"when the sons of Elohim(the lofty ones or higher beings) saw the daughters of men and came down(from the sky or stars or anothoer planet?) and took them as wives".
This again implies the the sons of the lofty ones came down from their abode outside of earth and mated with humans and added their dna to the human gene pool to create A hybrid species.
For this to happen, there had to be genetic compatibility, righ?

So, few things we know for sure is that these nephilim, fallen angels or whatever fancy name you give to them are : (a)were physical flesh and blood beings who even had se.xual urges.
(b)they came down to earth and were therefore not from earth. So they came from another physical world. Another physical world means another planet, right?

What do we call humanoid biological entities that are from other worlds? We call them extra-terrestials. Not so?

Excerpts from the book of Enoch(non-canonical for obvious reasons) tell us that these fallen angels taught humans to mine and forge metals,the use of fire,arts and crafts,taught mankind about the stars,science, agriculture, herbs and medicines. These are all the legacies that humankind have relied upon to build and advance our human civilisations, not so?

So, the bible itself is telling us in simple language, that eons ago, a race of advanced humanoid beings came down to earth, cohabited with humans, interbred with humans and tinkered with humnan dna.
The earliest civilisations of summer and egypt all say the same thing.
It has long puzzled archealogists and historians how those civilisations just sprung up from nowhere instead of gradually evolving as would have been expected of humans at the later stages of the stone age.
Why is that sooooo hard for bible believers to accept what is clearly written in their holy book?

Therefore, the nephilims, fallen angels,sons of El or the Elohim or whatever you call them were extra-terrestial beings.

Patsey: Interesting this is being discussed here. I completed a thesis on this pericope. Due to be published, this an extract from the abstract: "Having carefully weighed the various interpretations regarding the identification of the Sons of God in Gen. 6: 1-4, this work rejects the Sethite-Cainite interpretation and the royal aristocracy theory. It consequently suggests that the term, the Sons of God, in this passage, implies supernatural beings (traditionally, angels).




Absolutely agree with you. You cannot fully explicate this pericope without gleaning insights from the Book of Enoch.


Academic biblical exegetical studies in non-confessional theology departments in secular European and North American universities is a far cry from all these sermonising and rationalisations going on here!

i can see why you would say that. if you want milk who do you go to ? a cow or a snail ? i would hope you would go to a cow. the point here is, scriptures were not given to the heathens to understand ( that will be your europeans ). all heathens can do is speculate and hypothesize and guess. they are not spiritually equipped to disembowel scriptures. scriptures was only given to the israelites ( psalms 147 vs 19 and 20 ) which would be the indigenous people of the world ( shemetic black people or what the world calls negros ). it is the duty of the israelites to spiritually enlighten the heathens ( that would include your white people who are biblically known as the edomites ). it does not and is not meant to work the other way around. so i can see why you assert that your european professors dont know jack when it comes to the scriptures. LOL. They cant locate their bungholes from a hole in the ground when it comes to this here scriptures lol

plaetton: Ah ha.
The bible readers are once again confused about what is written in the bible. Lost in in translation, perhaps?
This part of the scripture is carefully avoided because the more you probe, the more the likelyhood that you might run into some unsettling answers, Answers that are guranteed to bring even more confusion to the infallible word of god.

First,do we believe the words of the bible to be absolute truth or at least close to the true events as they were understood by the scribes?

"The nephilim were in the earth in those days".
This implies that a class of beings who were non-human were cohabiting with humans in those days. Right?
"when the sons of Elohim(the lofty ones or higher beings) saw the daughters of men and came down(from the sky or stars or anothoer planet?) and took them as wives".
This again implies the the sons of the lofty ones came down from their abode outside of earth and mated with humans and added their dna to the human gene pool to create A hybrid species.
For this to happen, there had to be genetic compatibility, righ?

So, few things we know for sure is that these nephilim, fallen angels or whatever fancy name you give to them are : (a)were physical flesh and blood beings who even had se.xual urges.
(b)they came down to earth and were therefore not from earth. So they came from another physical world. Another physical world means another planet, right?

What do we call humanoid biological entities that are from other worlds? We call them extra-terrestials. Not so?

Excerpts from the book of Enoch(non-canonical for obvious reasons) tell us that these fallen angels taught humans to mine and forge metals,the use of fire,arts and crafts,taught mankind about the stars,science, agriculture, herbs and medicines. These are all the legacies that humankind have relied upon to build and advance our human civilisations, not so?

So, the bible itself is telling us in simple language, that eons ago, a race of advanced humanoid beings came down to earth, cohabited with humans, interbred with humans and tinkered with humnan dna.
The earliest civilisations of summer and egypt all say the same thing.
It has long puzzled archealogists and historians how those civilisations just sprung up from nowhere instead of gradually evolving as would have been expected of humans at the later stages of the stone age.
Why is that sooooo hard for bible believers to accept what is clearly written in their holy book?

Therefore, the nephilims, fallen angels,sons of El or the Elohim or whatever you call them were extra-terrestial beings.

SPOT ON. ABSOLUTELY RIGHT. NO ARGUMENT.

Oga plaetton, I commot cap for you....

plaetton: Ah ha.
The bible readers are once again confused about what is written in the bible. Lost in in translation, perhaps?
This part of the scripture is carefully avoided because the more you probe, the more the likelyhood that you might run into some unsettling answers, Answers that are guranteed to bring even more confusion to the infallible word of god.

First,do we believe the words of the bible to be absolute truth or at least close to the true events as they were understood by the scribes?

"The nephilim were in the earth in those days".
This implies that a class of beings who were non-human were cohabiting with humans in those days. Right?
"when the sons of Elohim(the lofty ones or higher beings) saw the daughters of men and came down(from the sky or stars or anothoer planet?) and took them as wives".
This again implies the the sons of the lofty ones came down from their abode outside of earth and mated with humans and added their dna to the human gene pool to create A hybrid species.
For this to happen, there had to be genetic compatibility, righ?

So, few things we know for sure is that these nephilim, fallen angels or whatever fancy name you give to them are : (a)were physical flesh and blood beings who even had se.xual urges.
(b)they came down to earth and were therefore not from earth. So they came from another physical world. Another physical world means another planet, right?

What do we call humanoid biological entities that are from other worlds? We call them extra-terrestials. Not so?

Excerpts from the book of Enoch(non-canonical for obvious reasons) tell us that these fallen angels taught humans to mine and forge metals,the use of fire,arts and crafts,taught mankind about the stars,science, agriculture, herbs and medicines. These are all the legacies that humankind have relied upon to build and advance our human civilisations, not so?

So, the bible itself is telling us in simple language, that eons ago, a race of advanced humanoid beings came down to earth, cohabited with humans, interbred with humans and tinkered with humnan dna.
The earliest civilisations of summer and egypt all say the same thing.
It has long puzzled archealogists and historians how those civilisations just sprung up from nowhere instead of gradually evolving as would have been expected of humans at the later stages of the stone age.
Why is that sooooo hard for bible believers to accept what is clearly written in their holy book?

Therefore, the nephilims, fallen angels,sons of El or the Elohim or whatever you call them were extra-terrestial beings.

utterly preposterous balderdash. you should be flogged mercilessly with horse whip for your innuendos about aliens and for this tripe typical atheist response

Where have I been o.......


Ok I don come....

What's d fuss about??

NEPHILIMs??


I wish I was as big as those guys so that I culd practice a smackdown on buzugee.....(WWE)...lol

Let me do my lil research on this topic...

Be back soon....

Been busy like HELL

@goshen.....oboy how far??

very soon Odemwingie would be labelled an extraterrestial alien encounter of the fifth kind.

ijawkid: Where have I been o.......


Ok I don come....

What's d fuss about??

NEPHILIMs??


I wish I was as big as those guys so that I culd practice a smackdown on buzugee.....(WWE)...lol

Let me do my lil research on this topic...

Be back soon....

Been busy like HELL

@goshen.....oboy how far??

Time to go learn some taekwando seeing as my brethren Ijawkid is planning to put me to sleep with choke hold

Logic Mind: very soon Odemwingie would be labelled an extraterrestial alien encounter of the fifth kind.

buzugee: Time to go learn some taekwando seeing as my brethren Ijawkid is planning to put me to sleep with choke hold

Hahahahahahahahahaha....

Prepare hard....lol

buzugee: Time to go learn some taekwando seeing as my brethren Ijawkid is planning to put me to sleep with choke hold

- Jurigi 'chumbi'!!!

- Ha !!!

Wow !!

To believe that angels mated with humans to produce another breed of creatures is such a nonsense that it beggars belief how supposedly educated people can believe it ever happened.

"Offspring of Seth — The Qumran (Dead Sea Scroll) fragment 4Q417 (Q Instruction) contains the earliest known reference to the phrase "children of Seth", stating that God has condemned them for their rebellion. Other early references to the offspring of Seth rebelling from God and mingling with the daughters of Cain, are found in rabbi Shimon bar Yochai, Augustine of Hippo, Julius Africanus, and the Letters attributed to St. Clement. It is also the view expressed in the modern canonical Amharic Ethiopian Orthodox Bible." - Wikipedia

Also , Christ specifically mentioned that angels do not marry , the scripture is clear, what is the problem with some people, trying to act intelligent they end up sounding foolish.

"At the resurrection people will neither marry nor be given in marriage; they will be like the angels in heaven." - Matthew 22:30

I think it is expedient for us to answer these questions;
-who are the sons of God in Gen. 6;4
-was there another rebellion after that of Lucifer aginst God in the heavenlies.

Firstly, the sons of God refers to the angels, Job 1;6 confirm this.
Satan did rebelled against God and the bible confirmed also that he was sent to this world and he is moving around looking for whom to devour, pending the day of judgement. The angels (sons of God) during the Noah's age were not destroyed nor spared by God but were put in chains till the day of judgement.

firebrand: I think it is expedient for us to answer these questions;
-who are the sons of God in Gen. 6;4
-was there another rebellion after that of Lucifer aginst God in the heavenlies.

Firstly, the sons of God refers to the angels, Job 1;6 confirm this.
Satan did rebelled against God and the bible confirmed also that he was sent to this world and he is moving around looking for whom to devour, pending the day of judgement. The angels (sons of God) during the Noah's age were not destroyed nor spared by God but were put in chains till the day of judgement.

You are right my brother that the "sons of God" in Job 1:6 were angels. However, the use of the "sons of God" might differ depending on the context but where am finding hard time believing that "sons of God" in Gen 6:4 are angles is that fact that men already started calling on the name of God before Gen 6, they can also be refer to as "sons of God" and not necessarily angels.

Also, am trying to blend my knowledge with the fact that the book of Job was also written before the law of Moses (pre-law). This is where am finding a though time blending it together. Also, the meaning of "giants" or "nephilim" is different from our mere understanding. I will pull up the meaning from the concordance soon or later.

Goshen360:

Gat you bro. Funny though However, the people believed the sons of God in Gen. 6:2-4 were fallen angels. That is what we are treating and looking at. I don't also believe they are fallen angels in the context of Gen.6:2-4 but children of God who pervert themselves as you mentioned in your example (perfect example though) because the sons of God in that context don't carry the nature of the daughters of men meaning the sons of God in that context are people of God who carry the nature of God in them because they now know God.

Because if they were fallen angels that mate with daughters of men to produce "giants", and after that was the flood, then were did another "giants" came from during the accounts of the spies sent to spy the Canaan Land? If they were fallen angels that produced giants, and the flood wiped them out, there will be no more mention of giants anymore in the account of the spies.

The highlight up there is a good observation.

However, my 2 cent is that human beings were so demonically possessed and influenced by the fallen angels to experiment on genetic engineering so as to pollute the nature of man, just as these anti-christ inspired folks are now promoting back door Eugenics (through organisations such as planned parenthood), designer babies, the attempt at producing cloned humans and even the breeding of humans and animals are all inspired and influenced by demons from the pit of hell.

Also who are these rebellious angels in chains according to the 2Pet 2;4 and what was their sins against God; Jude 1;6,7 shed more light on that, by saying the angels kept not their first estate, but left their own 'habitation'.

OLAADEGBU:

The highlight up there is a good observation.

However, my 2 cent is that human beings were so demonically possessed and influenced by the fallen angels to experiment on genetic engineering so as to pollute the nature of man, just as these anti-christ inspired folks are now promoting back door Eugenics (through organisations such as planned parenthood), designer babies, the attempt at producing cloned humans and even the breeding of humans and animals are all inspired and influenced by demons from the pit of hell.

You are right my brother. I heard a similar news and these prompted my dig into the word of God. Jesus said, "as it was in the days of noah" meaning something like these demonic stuffs corrupting the nature of the believers and many stuffs like that - the sons of God mixing with the daughters of men. This is the main puzzle we want to solve here. WHO ARE THESE SONS OF GOD IN THAT CONTEXT OF GEN.6:4. Some say they are angels, some say they are children of God. we are still proving,lolz

firebrand: Also who are these rebellious angels in chains according to the 2Pet 2;4 and what was their sins against God; Jude 1;6,7 shed more light on that, by saying the angels kept not their first estate, but left their own 'habitation'.

What does "HABITATION" mean to you in that context? Is it their dwelling place or their angelic form?

expanding on my point that the daughters of men are the female descendants of cain who had a mark put on him so he will be recognizable by anyone who sees him ' known as the mark of cain ' which is the removal of his melanin and hence creating the caucasian race. This is KJV

GENESIS 6 VS 2 That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose.

LETS LOOK AT THE MEANING OF FAIR- THE FREE DICTIONARY a. Light in color, especially blond: fair hair.
b. Of light complexion: fair skin.

SO AS YALL CAN SEE, THE BLACK MAN HAS HAD A CONSTANT HARDON FOR THE WHITE WOMAN SINCE THE BEGINNING OF TIME. AS SCRIPTURE SAYS. ECCLESIASTES 1 VS 9 What has been will be again, what has been done will be done again; there is nothing new under the sun.

buzugee: expanding on my point that the daughters of men are the female descendants of cain who had a mark put on him so he will be recognizable by anyone who sees him ' known as the mark of cain ' which is the removal of his melanin and hence creating the caucasian race. This is KJV

GENESIS 6 VS 2 That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose.

LETS LOOK AT THE MEANING OF FAIR- THE FREE DICTIONARY a. Light in color, especially blond: fair hair.
b. Of light complexion: fair skin.

SO AS YALL CAN SEE, THE BLACK MAN HAS HAD A CONSTANT HARDON FOR THE WHITE WOMAN SINCE THE BEGINNING OF TIME. AS SCRIPTURE SAYS. ECCLESIASTES 1 VS 9 What has been will be again, what has been done will be done again; there is nothing new under the sun.

Noooooooooooooooooooooo, Buzugee, please stop this racial sentiments here please. I beg of you. "Fair" in that context is NOT talking about complexion and when did you start using eartly dictionary to interpret God's word? "Fair" in that context means beautiful. Please stop all these racial sentiment please. There is something we are ALL going to learn from this thread. Leave circular dictionary out of this context, that will interpret the word "carnally" please, am begging you. Bible dictionary is welcome. Thank you.

Just as i thought, most brethen would just wave off the Book of enoch explaination just becos the catholic church did not deem it fit to include in their canon which we inherited.

@Goshen
Why do you think the book of enoch is not true? Did you read the passage i posted? does it not shed more light on the Genesis 6:2-4 scripture in a much more detailed manner? Why raising all this hypothesis just to fit preconceived notions? We have enough evidence in the bible that angels appeared in physical form. i.e the two angels sent to sodom and gomorrah or even the angel Jacob wrestled with. What's so difficult in believing angels[sons of God] had a physical manifestation when it is stated clearly in scripture several times.

Goshen360:

Noooooooooooooooooooooo, Buzugee, please stop this racial sentiments here please. I beg of you. "Fair" in that context is NOT talking about complexion and when did you start using eartly dictionary to interpret God's word? "Fair" in that context means beautiful. Please stop all these racial sentiment please. There is something we are ALL going to learn from this thread. Leave circular dictionary out of this context, that will interpret the word "carnally" please, am begging you. Bible dictionary is welcome. Thank you.

DENIAL IS A RIVER IN EGYPT

Goshen360:

You are right my brother that the "sons of God" in Job 1:6 were angels. However, the use of the "sons of God" might differ depending on the context but where am finding hard time believing that "sons of God" in Gen 6:4 are angles is that fact that men already started calling on the name of God before Gen 6, they can also be refer to as "sons of God" and not necessarily angels.

Also, am trying to blend my knowledge with the fact that the book of Job was also written before the law of Moses (pre-law). This is where am finding a though time blending it together. Also, the meaning of "giants" or "nephilim" is different from our mere understanding. I will pull up the meaning from the concordance soon or later.

[quote author=Goshen360]


To interprete the sons of God (SOG) as mere believers in God as recorded before Gen.6 in contxt with gen.6 would definitely be out of context. The fact that the SOG(not angels) marrying the unbelievers of their time can not amount to giving birth to abnormal human species that dominated their generation with supernatural and physical powers. The author of Genesis was careful in the presentation in 6;4, "THERE WERE GIANTS IN THE EARTH IN THOSE DAYS; AND ALSO AFTER THAT, WHEN THE SONS OF GOD CAME IN UNTO THE DAUGHTERS OF MEN, AND THEY BARE CHILDREN TO THEM,THE SAME BECAME MIGHTY MEN WHICH WERE OF OLD, MEN OF RENOWN"

Of course there were giants after the utter destruction of these abnormal human beings, but I want to belief that these were normal giants of moderate sizes like the sons of Anak. They cannot be compared with that of Noah's era, who are super human

Pastor Kun: Just as i thought, most brethen would just wave off the Book of enoch explaination just becos the catholic church did not deem it fit to include in their canon which we inherited.

@Goshen
Why do you think the book of enoch is not true? Did you read the passage i posted? does it not shed more light on the Genesis 6:2-4 scripture in a much more detailed manner? Why raising all this hypothesis just to fit preconceived notions? We have enough evidence in the bible that angels appeared in physical form. i.e the two angels sent to sodom and gomorrah or even the angel Jacob wrestled with. What's so difficult in believing angels[sons of God] had a physical manifestation when it is stated clearly in scripture several times.

Yes, I read the passage you posted from the book of Enoch. I also read that angels manifested in "physical" form as a matter of fact as "men" in the case of sodom and gomorrah and even the men of sodom and gomorrah wants to mate with them. My concern is, those that manifested as "physical" form, was it because of "special" assignemt from God and those where angels from God that came after the account of this Gen. 6. Does the "sons of God" in Gen 6:2 also mean angels and it does, then it means they are fallen angels, probably those that left with lucifer after he rebelled against God. Another thing is, when God wiped out the earth with flood in the days of Noah (I also read that in that book of Enoch you posted), where did another giants came from in the case of the spies that was sent to spy Canaan Land. I am getting the flow though. I do not dispute the manifestation of angels in physical form.