emöfine2: Why should the children be raised as “Muslims”?

In Islam is a woman's faith less valued than that of men?

If the non-muslim woman married to a muslim man allegedy has a right to adhere to the religion of her choice what about potential children? ...following your comments there's no "compulsion" after all....is it not?

Is this part of the reason why Muslim men are allowed to marry specific non-muslims? - to carve into that religious demographic?

I stopped following this thread, so i just saw this... First of all, before marriage both parties have a contract and are aware of what they are getting into. If a woman does not want her kids to grow as muslims, she can easily refuse to marry.

A muslim believes that Islam is the absolute truth; that means while other faiths have elements of truth, there is still falsehood embedded. The woman is an adult and can follow what she wants. Children are to be guided ... When they become adults, they can make different choices. One element of that guidance and probably the most important in the eyes of a muslim is Islam.


The marriage to a Jew or Christian is a very limited allowance under special circumstances and applies only to those from the population that are chaste and believing.... Not just nominal believers...

tbaba1234:

A man playing the leading role in a family is not peculiar to muslim homes. It is common in all kinds of homes, christian, Jewish, secular et.c. At the end of the day, It is still a partnership only there is a leading partner and a supporting partner (like all partnerships).... Most of us grew up in homes where the father is the head of the home, does that mean our mothers had rights of 'flying mosquitoes'...

The inter-religious rules has nothing to do with the rights of a woman in a marriage. The rules are set up to protect the muslim and his/her faith.

I have not said anything about the rights in marriage to you...

I said this earlier



You are either not reading or you see what you want to see...

Are you saying a Muslim woman has about equal amount of rights as a Christian woman? LOL




How are these rules protecting Muslim women?

Let's disgress a lil from the topic, plz answer me this; How does dressing up like one is about to commit nighttime robbery (during the hot HOT summer) protecting women?

Ileke-IdI:


Are you saying a Muslim woman has about equal amount of rights as a Christian woman? LOL




How are these rules protecting Muslim women?

Let's disgress a lil from the topic, plz answer me this; How does dressing up like one is about to commit nighttime robbery (during the hot HOT summer) protecting women?

Sorry, take your digressing over to the romance section. Its serious debate here that is way above your intellectual capacity. Read the thread, it has nothing to do with female dressing, you can put up your own topic if you pls.

and secondly, try not to post on topics where i am on. I get tired of having to read your unintelligent take on most topics that are outside the realm of mindless gossip.

Zodiac61:



Anyone spot the contradiction here?

i tire for am.

Ileke-IdI:
Are you saying a Muslim woman has about equal amount of rights as a Christian woman? LOL

I would say a muslim woman has always had more rights historically... you just need to pick up a history book..

How are these rules protecting Muslim women?

A muslim woman is protected from living in an environment where her religious freedoms might not be guaranteed... This is not saying that a muslim man can not infringe on the rights of his non-muslim wife. But he is obligated by his faith not to

Let's disgress a lil from the topic, plz answer me this; How does dressing up like one is about to commit nighttime robbery (during the hot HOT summer) protecting women?

You are obviously speaking with a bias; A muslim woman makes the choice to wear the hijab, niqab or burka as an act of obedience and modesty.

tbaba1234:

I stopped following this thread, so i just saw this... First of all, before marriage both parties have a contract and are aware of what they are getting into. If a woman does not want her kids to grow as muslims, she can easily refuse to marry.

A muslim believes that Islam is the absolute truth; that means while other faiths have elements of truth, there is still falsehood embedded. The woman is an adult and can follow what she wants. Children are to be guided ... When they become adults, they can make different choices. One element of that guidance and probably the most important in the eyes of a muslim is Islam.


The marriage to a Jew or Christian is a very limited allowance under special circumstances and applies only to those from the population that are chaste and believing.... Not just nominal believers...

Let me ask this question because you tend to be say a lot but convey very little information. For example, the above is a perplexing word salad that does nothing to address the myriad of questions asked here.

1. Why are muslim men permitted to marry ONLY christians and jews (out of all the other non-believing women) and why is the muslim woman expressly forbidden to marry anyone non-muslim?

tbaba1234:

I would say a muslim woman has always had more rights historically... you just need to pick up a history book..

Give me a few examples. . . . and I might need you to back it up.

A muslim woman is protected from living in an environment where her religious freedoms might not be guaranteed... This is not saying that a muslim man can not infringe on the rights of his non-muslim wife. But he is obligated by his faith not to

Is this protection forced or can a Muslim woman easily slide back from the religion of Islam, if she so wishes?

Define protection.

I need to know if I can still have my freedom IF I marry a Muslim man.

You are obviously speaking with a bias; A muslim woman makes the choice to wear the hijab, niqab or burka as an act of obedience and modesty.

In all Muslim environments?





https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SpV_cJ5E0wQ

Zodiac61: Anyone spot the contradiction here?

You are correct; but to say karen armstrong is bottom of the barrel is equally silly

tbaba1234:

You are correct; but to say karen armstrong is bottom of the barrel is equally silly

She indeed is scraping the bottom of the barrel. Just because she happens to be pro-islam doesnt make her any different. What of Ayaan Hirsi Ali? I think she's a very intelligent politician and miles better than Karen.

davidylan:

Let me ask this question because you tend to be say a lot but convey very little information. For example, the above is a perplexing word salad that does nothing to address the myriad of questions asked here.

1. Why are muslim men permitted to marry ONLY christians and jews (out of all the other non-believing women) and why is the muslim woman expressly forbidden to marry anyone non-muslim?

I think plenty is conveyed but i think we have very different worldviews so little is communicated.

Why only from the Jews and christians?

Jews, christian and muslims have plenty disagreements but they also have many similarities... A believing christian would give reverence to God and the prophets the muslims believe in. There will be less contradiction in such a marriage.... A muslim man can not marry all christians/jews.... only those that are chaste and believing... That way the children grow up with a fear of God and a respect for another faith.

A muslim man following islam must allow his wife practise her faith. It is a religious obligation so as much as he might want his wife to follow his faith. He would be commiting a sin if he tries to compel her.

On the other hand, a muslim woman in the marriage with a non-muslim faces a number of challenges and it is the small things. for instance In most homes, the woman does most of the cooking... What if her husband wants to eat bacon? She can't cook it or serve it to him.... She can't serve alcohol to him or his friends. To do so, will be to compromise aspects of the religion.

Now her husband could be very tolerant of those restrictions. The major challenge is that he has no religious obligation to do this. There is nothing stopping him from making her cook bacon or serve alcohol afterall to him , it is not a big deal. She is not eating it afterall.

There are other rules like she can't be intimate during her periods, Would he be patient at those times? He has no religious obligation to be...... The obligations of the muslim woman could clash with her husband many times and unless he is really patient, it could lead to two things... The woman compromising on her faith or serious disagreements in the home. We still live in mainly patriachal societies afterall..

I have a very good friend whose mum is christian and dad muslim... He is a good muslim and his mum still goes to church, They have found a balance that works in their home.

The allowance is very limited and it is discouraged amongst most of the scholars because unless the man is patient, he would end up infringing on the rights of his wife.

Personally, I think it is better to marry practising people in your faith.

I hope this helps...

davidylan: She indeed is scraping the bottom of the barrel. Just because she happens to be pro-islam doesnt make her any different. What of Ayaan Hirsi Ali? I think she's a very intelligent politician and miles better than Karen.

You are not scraping the bottom of the barrel when your book is read in most theology classes across the country... It has been reproduced by the History Channel as a film.. She is balanced in respect of all faiths... Ayaan Hirsi Ali is a liar and a hate monger... A muslim with very little knowledge can refute many of her claims..

Ileke-IdI:

Give me a few examples. . . . and I might need you to back it up.

*exhale... off topic

These are known, just do a little research

i. Muslim women have always had the right to inheritance, a right gained by the european christian only in the last century...

ii. When the christian church was still arguing whether a woman had a soul... The most learned scholar in the muslim lands was a woman Fatimah al-Juzadniyyah... Men and women travelled to learn from her... there are thousands of female scholars in muslim history...

iii. Whatever a woman earns from a job, inheritance or as a gift belongs exclusively to her, she does not have to share it with anyone she decides what to do with it. Her husband/father is responsible of her maintenance and protection.

iv. A muslim woman keeps her father's name after marriage... She maintains her heritage even after marriage.

Is this protection forced or can a Muslim woman easily slide back from the religion of Islam, if she so wishes?

Define protection.

I need to know if I can still have my freedom IF I marry a Muslim man.

First of all, in an ideal worl a muslim man can only marry you if you are a chaste and pious christian... If you identify with the faith but do not meet that criteria then he can't marry you.

If she wants to leave Islam, she is free to.
... Then whosoever will, let him believe, and whosoever will, let him disbelieve.... (Surah 18:29)

In all Muslim environments?

No, we do not live in an ideal world.... There are many cultural things that are often times confused with Islam.. Most women i know and have met wear the hijab because they want to, even with opposition from their muslim families...

I think most of my points have been articulated.... I am just stating the Islamic position... You do not have to agree...

As a muslim, i am convinced that Islam offers me the best way for me to live my life and serve my community. I am intellectually convinced of the divinity of the Quran and its role as guidance for my life. I do my best to follow Islam.

tbaba1234: I think most of my points have been articulated.... I am just stating the Islamic position... You do not have to agree...

As a muslim, i am convinced that Islam offers me the best way for me to live my life and serve my community. I am intellectually convinced of the divinity of the Quran and its role as guidance for my life. I do my best to follow Islam.

Remember when I debunked your numerology? Good times.


If the Quran is as good as you say it is, why is it that we dont see the evidence in Islamic communites or countries? There is not one islamic country in the top 10 peaceful countries (global peace index) or top[ 10 advanced countries (human development index).


All evidence in real life point to Islam as an inferior way to live life. Your Northern Nigeria is nothing in advancement compared to southern Nigeria. Our best scientists and artistes come from southern Nigeria.

MacDaddy01:
Remember when I debunked your numerology? Good times.
If the Quran is as good as you say it is, why is it that we dont see the evidence in Islamic communites or countries? There is not one islamic country in the top 10 peaceful countries (global peace index) or top[ 10 advanced countries (human development index).
All evidence in real life point to Islam as an inferior way to live life. Your Northern Nigeria is nothing in advancement compared to southern Nigeria. Our best scientists and artistes come from southern Nigeria.

*Offtopic

Logicboy!! you have never debunked anything in your life...... you failed a simple challenge and still give props to yourself... smh! How can anyone take you seriously? Even atheists can not realistically take you seriously? Numerology?? Is that an intellectual argument for the Quran? When i say that i am convinced of the Quran , I mean that it is beyond the productive capacity of a human being... I am talking of every single ayah(verse)..... The book is quite frankly stunning. I started a thread that attempts to show some aspects of what i am talking about. It is for the open minded: https://www.nairaland.com/972776/amazing-quran-pre-ramadan-study-interactive

You and your weak arguments, In Medieval times, the muslims were practising Islam and were on top of the world in terms of science, technology and standard of life. Even up to the mid 19th century, the muslim empire was still very powerful. If you know anything about history, you will know that power and influence has always changed hands and it will again in the future. It has nothing to do with the veracity of a faith. In fact, the decline of the muslim lands was due to abandoning Islam not because of it.

tbaba1234:

*Offtopic

Logicboy!! you have never debunked anything in your life...... you failed a simple challenge and still give props to yourself... smh! How can anyone take you seriously? Even atheists can not realistically take you seriously? Numerology?? Is that an intellectual argument for the Quran? When i say that i am convinced of the Quran , I mean that it is beyond the productive capacity of a human being... I am talking of every single ayah(verse)..... The book is quite frankly stunning. I started a thread that attempts to show some aspects of what i am talking about. It is for the open minded: https://www.nairaland.com/972776/amazing-quran-pre-ramadan-study-interactive

You and your weak arguments, In Medieval times, the muslims were practising Islam and were on top of the world in terms of science, technology and standard of life. Even up to the mid 19th century, the muslim empire was still very powerful. If you know anything about history, you will know that power and influence has always changed hands and it will again in the future. It has nothing to do with the veracity of a faith. In fact, the decline of the muslim lands was due to abandoning Islam not because of it.

I am asking of the present and not history. Islam made huge contributions to science in the golden age but dont forget that they were the last to abolish slavery.

I like this username, MacDaddy lol

@tbaba

So much contradictions in your posts.

You implied that men are the head of the household and women the "supporters" with one ide of your mouth. Yet with the other side, you're listing male roles that a Muslim woman holds in her marriage (i.e keeps her last name).

If Mulim women have such power, why are they shackled by their religion? Why does Islam limit their freedom of choice, forcing them to never look outside of Islam religion for love.


IF I marry a Muslim man, does his religion forbid me to protect myself from him if need be? Do I have the right to bare arms? (lol)

Ileke-IdI:
I like this username, MacDaddy lol

@tbaba

So much contradictions in your posts.

You implied that men are the head of the household and women the "supporters" with one ide of your mouth. Yet with the other side, you're listing male roles that a Muslim woman holds in her marriage (i.e keeps her last name).

If Mulim women have such power, why are they shackled by their religion? Why does Islam limit their freedom of choice, forcing them to never look outside of Islam religion for love.


IF I marry a Muslim man, does his religion forbid me to protect myself from him if need be? Do I have the right to bare arms? (lol)

How does a woman keeping her last name prevent her from serving a supporting role in a family??... Where is the contradiction there.... It is her father's name afterall. What makes a woman keeping her last name a male role?? She maintains her heritage and identity even in marriage, that is all.

A muslim who is convinced of Islam tries to keep within its limits. That includes your search for a partner. A muslim woman has the financial freedom to spend her wealth on whatever she wants. A muslim man must provide for her needs and his family. Someone would say it is unfair on the men, since they have to bear all the financial burdens in the home. A woman can only contribute at her discretion. A muslim woman does not have to pray during her period but gets the reward of one who prayed... Someone can also say unfair since men have to pray whereever they are, no matter what... even on a hospital bed... The laws for each sex are fair and balanced... No one is forced to do anything

Know enough about the person, you want to marry (MUSLIM OR NOT) so you would not have to get arms to protect yourself from him....

Signing off!!

MacDaddy01:


Remember when I debunked your numerology? Good times.


If the Quran is as good as you say it is, why is it that we dont see the evidence in Islamic communites or countries? There is not one islamic country in the top 10 peaceful countries (global peace index) or top[ 10 advanced countries (human development index).


All evidence in real life point to Islam as an inferior way to live life. Your Northern Nigeria is nothing in advancement compared to southern Nigeria. Our best scientists and artistes come from southern Nigeria.

This was sent to my phone yesterday afternoon:

BREAKING NEWS: No fewer than 60 NYSC members died as Boko Haram strikes @ bauchi nysc camp. If Ÿ̲̣̣̣̥ø̲̣̣̥u̶̲̥̅̊ have children, friend(s) ,Relative as corper in Bauchi aπϑ every other Northern states, pls call ₪w̶̲̥̅ τ̅☺ confirm their safety aπϑ caution them

tbaba1234:

How does a woman keeping her last name prevent her from serving a supporting role in a family??... Where is the contradiction there.... It is her father's name afterall. What makes a woman keeping her last name a male role?? She maintains her heritage and identity even in marriage, that is all.

It shows that she's more than a "supporting" role. Which is quite contradictory to the nature of sexism in Islam.

A muslim who is convinced of Islam tries to keep within its limits. That includes your search for a partner. A muslim woman has the financial freedom to spend her wealth on whatever she wants. A muslim man must provide for her needs and his family. Someone would say it is unfair on the men, since they have to bear all the financial burdens in the home. A woman can only contribute at her discretion. A muslim woman does not have to pray during her period but gets the reward of one who prayed... Someone can also say unfair since men have to pray whereever they are, no matter what... even on a hospital bed... The laws for each sex are fair and balanced... No one is forced to do anything

Hoepfully, you understand that force does not start and end @ physical.

Know enough about the person, you want to marry (MUSLIM OR NOT) so you would not have to get arms to protect yourself from him....

ROTFLMAO!!!

Tbaba although I don’t always agree I do appreciate your response however the irony is....

...although Muslim males are permitted to marry a Christian woman for example...one whom you continuously stress that has to be "pious" and "chaste", if the Christian woman was faithful to her own beliefs then she would recognize that she is not permitted to marry outside her faith so it does make me wonder what qualifies as "pious" according to a Muslim man...but it's just a thought and not a question.

Islam permits a muslim man to marry chaste women from other specific religions because in islam there is no compulsion in religion and the woman will be permitted to practise her faith because she is an adult but muslim women are not permitted to marry non muslim men. The question is are muslim women not adults, since there is no compulsion of faith in islam why is it compulsory for them to marry muslim men? as adults are they not free to choose to marry christians and jews if really there is no compulsion of faith? Is this not more of control of the flock than a matter of faith in the creator?

andromida: Islam permits a muslim man to marry chaste women from other specific religions because in islam there is no compulsion in religion and the woman will be permitted to practise her faith because she is an adult but muslim women are not permitted to marry non muslim men. The question is are muslim women not adults, since there is no compulsion of faith in islam why is it compulsory for them to marry muslim men? as adults are they not free to choose to marry christians and jews if really there is no compulsion of faith? Is this not more of control of the flock than a matter of faith in the creator?

Good questions.

Islam permits a muslim man to marry chaste women from other specific religions because in islam there is no compulsion in religion and the woman will be permitted to practise her faith because she is an adult,

@bolded that is inaccurate... Muslim men have a limited permission to marry outside their faith because they have been permitted by Allah. Ensuring that his non muslim wife practises her faith is where the no compulsion comes in... meaning he can not use his clout to force her out of her faith

andromida: The question is are muslim women not adults, since there is no compulsion of faith in islam why is it compulsory for them to marry muslim men? as adults are they not free to choose to marry christians and jews if really there is no compulsion of faith?

Compulsion in faith does not come in here, muslims act within the limits set by Allah in the Quran. It is just like asking a muslim man to drink alcohol because he is an adult. Everything we do is within the limits that have been set. It is obedience and submission.

Is this not more of control of the flock than a matter of faith in the creator?

Obedience to the creator is a matter of faith to the creator..

See the question tbaba is running away from;

https://www.nairaland.com/987827/request-evidence-greatness-truthfulness-islam

tbaba1234: Hi,

The condition for a muslim man to marry a Jew or a christian woman is that the woman is a chaste believing (Jew or christian) woman; It is not just any christian or any Jew.

In the case of a muslim woman, It is not permitted that she marries a non-muslim not even a Jew or christian....

One of the reasons for this could be that a non-muslim husband does not have the religious obligation to fulfill the rights of his muslim wife...

For Instance, Whatever a muslim woman earns from work belongs exclusively to her... she does not have to contribute to the maintenance of the home if she doesn't want to.... It is the responsibilty of the muslim man to maintain and protect his home...

In addition, a muslim woman does not have to change her family name when she gets married... She keeps the name of her father.

Would she have to prepare pork or serve alcohol? Would she be able to keep up with the prayer, fast in ramadan?

You see, a non-muslim man even with the best of intentions might not be able to give her all her rights as a muslim...

This is your own opinion of why a muslim woman cannot and should not marry a non muslim man.

tbaba1234:

Muslim men have a limited permission to marry outside their faith because they have been permitted by Allah. Ensuring that his non muslim wife practises her faith is where the no compulsion comes in... meaning he can not use his clout to force her out of her faith



Compulsion in faith does not come in here, muslims act within the limits set by Allah in the Quran. It is just like asking a muslim man to drink alcohol because he is an adult. Everything we do is within the limits that have been set. It is obedience and submission.



Obedience to the creator is a matter of faith to the creator..

Thank you for your honesty here.By islamic standards it is disobedience for a muslim woman to marry a non muslim man but it is permissible for the man because he is a man and will direct the affairs of his home as both judaism and christianity believe a woman should be in submission to her husband. If a muslim man fails to raise his children as muslims i.e if he marries a chaste jew or christian,what is the penalty for his failure seeing as his generation are in disobedience to Allah.

tbaba1234: Hi,

The condition for a muslim man to marry a Jew or a christian woman is that the woman is a chaste believing (Jew or christian) woman; It is not just any christian or any Jew.

In the case of a muslim woman, It is not permitted that she marries a non-muslim not even a Jew or christian....

One of the reasons for this could be that a non-muslim husband does not have the religious obligation to fulfill the rights of his muslim wife...

For Instance, Whatever a muslim woman earns from work belongs exclusively to her... she does not have to contribute to the maintenance of the home if she doesn't want to.... It is the responsibilty of the muslim man to maintain and protect his home...

In addition, a muslim woman does not have to change her family name when she gets married... She keeps the name of her father.

Would she have to prepare pork or serve alcohol? Would she be able to keep up with the prayer, fast in ramadan?

You see, a non-muslim man even with the best of intentions might not be able to give her all her rights as a muslim...

This is your own opinion and perhaps some of your clerics of why a muslim woman cannot and should not marry a non muslim man. A woman does not have same rights as a man when it comes to marriage in Islam.

To all,

Geez guys, thanks! So much infomatn. Personally, I have noting against inter religious marriage as long as the lines of communicatn are open. But d problem wud come from families.
We are ruled by sentiments.

I don't view people as muslims or christains... Just as human being.
I judge u by ur degree of enlightment.

Education has crossed so many barriers. I just wish dat people wud see it dat way and not judge you by the name of whom u pray to or through but the contents of ur hearts.

I sincerely wish dat we get wat we looking for. Like someone said d biggest adventure u can take is to live d life of ur dreams and not the one dictated to u by societal and family opinions cos at the end of d day its all on "you".

Too much disney.


You'll wake up when you realize others dont see you the way you see them through your rose coloured glasses.

Bottom line is :

1. A Born again , Spirit filled Christian woman will not marry a Muslim man , this is 100% fact.

2. A Nominal unconverted Christian woman might consider marrying a Muslim

3. A devout Jewish woman will surely not marry a Muslim man

4. A Liberal Jewish woman might in some cases marry a Muslims man.


Therefore :

Muslim men will normally get married to those Jews or Christians who are either not strict adherents to their faith or who have an almost negligible understanding of their scripture and hence fall prey to Satan's deceptions.

One thing I notice though is now Muslims assume every westerner is a Muslim, even though the truth is that barely 10% meet the requirements of what it means to be a Christian.

Personally , and forgive me if I am wrong, I am yet to see any girl I know , either black or white , either nominal or adherent, who married a Muslim man , to this I say thank goodness

andromida: By islamic standards it is disobedience for a muslim woman to marry a non muslim man but it is permissible for the man because he is a man and will direct the affairs of his home as both judaism and christianity believe a woman should be in submission to her husband.

+1

tbaba1234:

@bolded that is inaccurate... Muslim men have a limited permission to marry outside their faith because they have been permitted by Allah. Ensuring that his non muslim wife practises her faith is where the no compulsion comes in... meaning he can not use his clout to force her out of her faith

but we all know the above is meaningless hogwash. In a typical islamic state (which is the goal of every muslim), the only religion permitted is islam so where does the wife get to practice her faith?