cyrexx: @ thehomer,

welldone and thank you for your further clarification.

actually the post is clear enough for any reasoning mind,
its just that the religious folks love to play the foul card of attacking a person when they fail in their crusade to offer sensible counter-argument and refutation to the person's statement of truth.

I just replied to an example of the religious people you're talking about. No counter-argument or refutation.

thehomer:

Okay so it was Stephen Roberts who made the complete quote. I hadn't gone through the entire thread but I notice that rather than actually offering a rebuttal, you just want to fling your faeces all over the place. You're really manifesting the features of our lowly origins while most of us have moved on.

Next time, at least try to exercise your brain a bit and offer a rebuttal.

Mr. Dunce the Mumu is still bitter and bruising from previous sufferings.

Sorry oh!

thehomer:

I just replied to an example of the religious people you're talking about. No counter-argument or refutation.

yes, i understand you, that's why i said well done and thank you.

the people i am referring to is not you, but the religious folks who commits ad hominien fallacy which is defined as: insulting or belittling one's opponent in order to attack his claim or invalidate his argument, it means launching out verbal insults that are irrelevant to the opponent's argument. This is logically fallacious because it relates to the opponent's person, which has nothing to do with the logical merit of the opponent's argument

cyrexx: . . . folks who commits ad hominien fallacy which is defined as: insulting or belittling one's opponent in order to attack his claim or invalidate his argument, it means launching out verbal insults that are irrelevant to the opponent's argument. This is logically fallacious because it relates to the opponent's person, which has nothing to do with the logical merit of the opponent's argument

Hmmmm. Just exactly like:

thehomer:

Okay so it was Stephen Roberts who made the complete quote. I hadn't gone through the entire thread but I notice that rather than actually offering a rebuttal, you just want to fling your faeces all over the place. You're really manifesting the features of our lowly origins while most of us have moved on.

Next time, at least try to exercise your brain a bit and offer a rebuttal.

cyrexx:

yes, i understand you, that's why i said well done and thank you.

the people i am referring to is not you, but the religious folks who commits ad hominien fallacy which is defined as: insulting or belittling one's opponent in order to attack his claim or invalidate his argument, it means launching out verbal insults that are irrelevant to the opponent's argument. This is logically fallacious because it relates to the opponent's person, which has nothing to do with the logical merit of the opponent's argument

When people do that, I simply ignore their rants since I will no longer be feeding trolls.
I may reconsider if they actually decide to present an argument. Though given their inability to reason clearly and to actually think up a rebuttal I think it is unlikely that they'll change.

Guys, pls lets be adults here,
we dont have to agree on everything but we dont have to fight on anything too.

the battle is actually on ideas not the personanlities as we are all anonoymous and may never meet each other in real life.

lets just discuss, agree, disagree or ignore whatever we feel is irrelevant.

Public forum like nairaland thrives and becomes more interesting because of DIFFERENT but RESPECTFUL views

Pls guys

thehomer:

I just replied to an example of the religious people you're talking about. No counter-argument or refutation.

This is fun, let me try my hands at it.

We are all vegans I only eat less types of meat than you do. When you understand why you prefer beef to chicken, then you'll understand why I don't like beef.

We are all nude I am only wearing one less cloth than you are. When you understand why you are wearing a red shirt and not a blue one, then you'll understand why I'm not wearing anything.

We are all car owners, I only have one less car than you do, when you understand why you drive a mercedes and not a toyota, then you understand why I don't drive any cars.

We all fishes, I only need less water than you do. When you understand why you are a deep water fish and not a shallow water fish, then you'll understand why I live on land and not water.

We are all homeless I only have one less house than you do...........

We are all bald, I only have less hair than you do........

We are all metals, I am only less metallic than my teaspoon or we are all wooden, I am only made of less wood than my chair........ etc. the list can go on forever.

..........and yeah anyone who contests these statements is a brainwashed deluded bigot who is incapable of clear reasoning.

In conclusion, I love this logic in fact, we are all theists I only believe in one more God than you do.

@thehomer, I can't believe that even you can't see the idiocy of this.

Mr_Anony: . . .
In conclusion, I love this logic in fact, we are all theists I only believe in one more God than you do.. . .

Now that is class!

In fact I'm so pissed off I didn't think of it first.

Wow. Just. Wow. Did you actually think this through? Because it looks as if you just rushed through. Some of the analogies don't even make sense.

Mr_Anony:

This is fun, let me try my hands at it.

We are all vegans I only eat less types of meat than you do. When you understand why you prefer beef to chicken, then you'll understand why I don't like beef.

How about those that prefer chicken to beef? And fish to either of them? What do you think a vegan is? Saying they eat less types of meat is incoherent.

Mr_Anony:
We are all nude I am only wearing one less cloth than you are. When you understand why you are wearing a red shirt and not a blue one, then you'll understand why I'm not wearing anything.

Actually, most people wear more than one piece of cloth you know. And can wear either a red shirt, a blue one or even both.

Mr_Anony:
We are all car owners, I only have one less car than you do, when you understand why you drive a mercedes and not a toyota, then you understand why I don't drive any cars.

There are more car brands than either Mercedes or Toyota.

Mr_Anony:
We all fishes, I only need less water than you do. When you understand why you are a deep water fish and not a shallow water fish, then you'll understand why I live on land and not water.

This here just takes the cake. How many people live in deep water like fish do?

Mr_Anony:
We are all homeless I only have one less house than you do...........

I addressed this.

Mr_Anony:
We are all bald, I only have less hair than you do........

Huh?

Mr_Anony:
We are all metals, I am only less metallic than my teaspoon or we are all wooden, I am only made of less wood than my chair........ etc. the list can go on forever.

..........and yeah anyone who contests these statements is a brainwashed deluded bigot.

In conclusion, I love this logic in fact, we are all theists I only believe in one more God than you do.

@thehomer, I can't believe that even you can't see the idiocy of this.

I'm sorry but your attempts fail woefully. Some don't even make any sense.
It looks as if you don't seem to understand the fundamental difference between having and forming a belief and owning a certain object. If you cannot see it, then I'm sorry but you cannot be helped.
Why don't you go back and look once more at the quote you're failing to parody?

To jog your memory, here is the one by Dawkins.

“We are all atheists about most of the gods that humanity has ever believed in. Some of us just go one god further.”

Do you notice any significant difference between it and your failed parodies?

Enigma:

Now that is class!

In fact I'm so pissed off I didn't think of it first.

What can I say, I'm probably more pissed than you are. This thread has made me lose a lot of respect for these guys and has made me doubt their handle on logic. If someone says atheism is a religion or asks them to prove there is no God, they will be the first to start complaining and saying things like "bald is not a hair color" "the burden of proof doesn't lie on a negative" e.t.c. yet they see nothing wrong in defining religions based on this same negative.

I am sorry but in truth atheists especially the ones on this thread are as religious as can be.

@ anony
can you for one second tone down your ad hominien and define what you mean by religion

5/

Mr_Anony:

What can I say, I'm probably more pissed than you are. This thread has made me lose a lot of respect for these guys and has made me doubt their handle on logic. If someone says atheism is a religion or asks them to prove there is no God, they will be the first to start complaining and saying things like "bald is not a hair color" "the burden of proof doesn't lie on a negative" e.t.c. yet they see nothing wrong in defining religions based on this same negative.

I am sorry but in truth atheists especially the ones on this thread are as religious as can be.

I always knew you would soon realise the "timbre and caliber" we are dealing with. It really wouldn't take long for an intelligent and intellectually honest person to ascertain.

At first, even I took some of them seriously and assumed that they were both honest and intelligent; however, I quickly realised that many (in fact, most) of them are actually neither!

Let me give an example: if you are able to go through this thread https://www.nairaland.com/546562/atheism-religion you will see that up till about page 9 my posts were generally polite and assumed that I was involved in debate with genuine/honest debaters but from page 9 or thereabouts onward and after some time lapse, you will see a change of attitude to at least some of the debaters. The change was informed by the kind of realisation on this thread and worse ---- actual duplicity and deliberate dishonesty.

Also, the 30 Keys thread https://www.nairaland.com/298119/30-keys-being-effective-atheist was hijacked by me to provide a compilation of some of the absurdities that our friends pass for "intellectual/intelligent argument".

thehomer: Wow. Just. Wow. Did you actually think this through? Because it looks as if you just rushed through. Some of the analogies don't even make sense.
Have you actually thought through your position

How about those that prefer chicken to beef? And fish to either of them? What do you think a vegan is? Saying they eat less types of meat is incoherent.
and how about those who go to church on sunday and go to babalawo on saturday

Actually, most people wear more than one piece of cloth you know. And can wear either a red shirt, a blue one or even both.
Actually people worship multiple gods you know

There are more car brands than either Mercedes or Toyota.
there are many brands of deities

This here just takes the cake. How many people live in deep water like fish do?
how many atheists believe in deity like theists do?

I addressed this.
yeah I know you did, and that's part of why I am disappointed at you

Huh?
Huh?

I'm sorry but your attempts fail woefully. Some don't even make any sense.
It looks as if you don't seem to understand the fundamental difference between having and forming a belief and owning a certain object. If you cannot see it, then I'm sorry but you cannot be helped.
I am sorry but you don't seem to understand the meaning of the term "opposite"
Why don't you go back and look once more at the quote you're failing to parody?
why don't you go back and carefully consider the logic of the quote without just swallowing the message of Reverend Evangelist Dawkins

Oh my God, it's actually worse than I thought. Your religion non-religion has blinded you to reason. I won't partake further in this foolishness.

Mr_Anony:

thehomer: Wow. Just. Wow. Did you actually think this through? Because it looks as if you just rushed through. Some of the analogies don't even make sense.
Have you actually thought through your position

How about those that prefer chicken to beef? And fish to either of them? What do you think a vegan is? Saying they eat less types of meat is incoherent.
and how about those who go to church on sunday and go to babalawo on saturday

Actually, most people wear more than one piece of cloth you know. And can wear either a red shirt, a blue one or even both.
Actually people worship multiple gods you know

There are more car brands than either Mercedes or Toyota.
there are many brands of deities

This here just takes the cake. How many people live in deep water like fish do?
how many atheists believe in deity like theists do?

I addressed this.
yeah I know you did, and that's part of why I am disappointed at you

Huh?
Huh?

I'm sorry but your attempts fail woefully. Some don't even make any sense.
It looks as if you don't seem to understand the fundamental difference between having and forming a belief and owning a certain object. If you cannot see it, then I'm sorry but you cannot be helped.
I am sorry but you don't seem to understand the meaning of the term "opposite"
Why don't you go back and look once more at the quote you're failing to parody?
why don't you go back and carefully consider the logic of the quote without just swallowing the message of Reverend Evangelist Dawkins

Oh my God, it's actually worse than I thought. Your religion non-religion has blinded you to reason. I won't partake further in this foolishness.

This is even worse than I thought. I seem to have a buffoon on my hands.

What does going to church have to do with visiting Babalawo? Does going to church by definition mean someone cannot go to Babalawo?

Do you Christians worship multiple Gods? Why did you reject the Gods of your ancestors and those of Buddhists? Sheesh.

Atheists don't believe like theists do because the reasons why theists reject the other Gods is the same reason why they reject the Gods that the theist before them actually believes in. Is this so hard?

I'll just leave the rest of your statements to stand as the signs of the deep ignorance and emotional investment that you're displaying. Thinking that they can actually stand in place of a good argument.
Is it really this difficult for you to carefully read and consider a statement before posting?

Any way, good luck to you.

Mr_Anony:

Oh my God, it's actually worse than I thought. Your religion non-religion has blinded you to reason. I won't partake further in this foolishness.

and you think deactivating your reasoning mode and deliberately turning a blind eye to the foolishness and nonsensical claims of your religion makes you less foolish?

thehomer:
Do you Christians worship multiple Gods? Why did you reject the Gods of your ancestors and those of Buddhists? Sheesh.

Atheists don't believe like theists do because the reasons why theists reject the other Gods is the same reason why they reject the Gods that the theist before them actually believes in. Is this so hard?

Thinking that they can actually stand in place of a good argument.
Is it really this difficult for you to carefully read and consider a statement before posting?

Actually, I used to wonder too.
But now i realised that religion is an effective mind control mechanism that permanently deactivates your reasoning mode when it comes to some issues.

You need to understand them. I know exactly what its like.

Christianity and Islam survived other religions because they have the most effective mind control mechanism.
Natural selection has ensured that they persisted and outlived other religions thus far, due to their stuborn resistance to reason and logic inherent in their religion's mind control mechanism.

Cheers, mate.

cyrexx:

Actually, I used to wonder too.
But now i realised that religion is an effective mind control mechanism that permanently deactivates your reasoning mode when it comes to some issues.

You need to understand them. I know exactly what its like.

Christianity and Islam survived other religions because they have the most effective mind control mechanism.
Natural selection has ensured that they persisted and outlived other religions thus far, due to their stuborn resistance to reason and logic inherent in their religion's mind control mechanism.

Cheers, mate.

Of course. That is one of the insights I've been trying to share.

LOL!

Thanks, Enigma and Mr_Anony for the light on the thread. Your analogies/ripostes are spot on!

We are all theists I only believe in one more God than you do.

I had typed up a long reply to thehomer but my backspace button consumed it all in the light of

We are all theists I only believe in one more God than you do.

@cyrexx and dehomer
bro, how have ur day been?
I wish to try something on this issue.

Ok, according to ur reasoning,
theist are also atheist to other gods since they dont believe in there god just as atheist dont believe in christian God or muslim god.

So, due to this similarities of no believe in the others god u conclude we are also atheist to members of the other religion.

Pls, correct me if i slip.

Ok, two observations though.

1. Yes, theist may not believe in the others god but they still have their own god in which they believe in. This is unlike atheist that dont have any god of their own to fall back on at all,

2. That theist dont believe in a particular god does not mean that they are saying that those god dont exist, cus atheist i supose say there is no god. God or gods dont exist.

3. the is a difference between believing in a storey the way it is told due to inconsistencies and saying that the incident naver happen, and the later i think best explain the ethist view point.

So, my sumission then is that the op is not wholistically accurate, though their are similarities. But the diff is just want it is. One has a god he believes in while the other dont have any at all. = opposite END.

Unless u are saying, after the disbelieve of all posible god that atheist also have a god they fall back on or believe in.
Peace.

i must regrettably admit that the misunderstanding of my thread's topic has got more attention than the content of the thread itself. lessons learnt.

i have to contain myself at the gross misunderstanding being displayed here.

but to briefly answer your questions

1. you said atheists don't have a god of their own to fall back on. atheists don't need any imaginary god to fall back. i dont mean to insult your faith but that is the realistic way of doing things instead of relinquishing your responsibility to another being told us by religions. atheists just dont follow any religion.

2. i dont believe in allah as the almighty god just like you too. but while you believe its a false god, atheists just believe they are imaginations of religious people. maybe we differ there. but if there is any evidence that allah exists as the almighty god anywhere outside the mind of muslims, then we will both believe he exists, wont we?

3. i must admit that the inconsistencies are just enough to make one doubt the story. especially when they tell you that failure to believe the story will earn you eternal torture in hell fire.


by the way, there is one thread i want you to comment on. it concerns Jehovah Witnesses. https://www.nairaland.com/984261/what-does-jehovah-witness-watchtower

truthislight: @cyrexx and dehomer
bro, how have ur day been?
I wish to try something on this issue.

Ok, according to ur reasoning,
theist are also atheist to other gods since they dont believe in there god just as atheist dont believe in christian God or muslim god.

So, due to this similarities of no believe in the others god u conclude we are also atheist to members of the other religion.

It is not just my reasoning, it is what Christians and Muslims themselves say. They, for example, don't believe in Brahma.

truthislight:
Pls, correct me if i slip.

Ok, two observations though.

1. Yes, theist may not believe in the others god but they still have their own god in which they believe in. This is unlike atheist that dont have any god of their own to fall back on at all,

2. That theist dont believe in a particular god does not mean that they are saying that those god dont exist, cus atheist i supose say there is no god. God or gods dont exist.

Actually, being a monotheist means that one doesn't believe that there are other Gods so it does mean that they're saying that those other Gods don't exist.

truthislight:
3. the is a difference between believing in a storey the way it is told due to inconsistencies and saying that the incident naver happen, and the later i think best explain the ethist view point.

So, my sumission then is that the op is not wholistically accurate, though their are similarities. But the diff is just want it is. One has a god he believes in while the other dont have any at all. = opposite END.

Unless u are saying, after the disbelieve of all posible god that atheist also have a god they fall back on or believe in.
Peace.

Let me see if I can restate the idea behind the quote in another way.
The Christian for some reason doesn't believe in Brahman for certain reasons. The Hindu doesn't believe in Jehovah for certain reasons. The atheist doesn't believe in Brahman for some of the reasons the Christian may give and doesn't believe in Jehovah for some of the reasons the Hindu may give.
Thus, while while the Christian is an atheist with respect to Brahman and vice versa, the atheist doesn't believe in either of them. This same line of reasoning applies to Islam, Native American religions, traditional African religions etc.
I hope it is clearer.

@cyrexx and dehomer
Ur points are well understood from the angle u are presenting it.

The theist are only trying to say that though what u are saying about disbelieve may be right, the cardinal seperation thus still exist.
One has a god while the other does not.
So, saying they are finally the same, i thing is the bone.
Peace

truthislight: @cyrexx and dehomer
Ur points are well understood from the angle u are presenting it.

The theist are only trying to say that though what u are saying about disbelieve may be right, the cardinal seperation thus still exist.
One has a god while the other does not.
So, saying they are finally the same, i thing is the bone.
Peace

No one is saying they're totally the same just that they're similar to a very large extent. The atheist just goes one God further than at least the monotheist.

@dehomer
Yea! U are right there.
Ie. The one god that the monotheist have the atheist dont even have it. (one god less)
So, by the time u minus the one god that the theist have they are both the same..:
Lol.
After they both reject every other god(atheist and mono theist) if u should just remove the one god left for monotheist he is = atheist...

Agreed, that is if the theist will agree for that one god to go he then becomes atheist.

Ok, cyrexx. We can let this issue to sleep, we can see where u are coming from.

But take note. Some theist believe that those other gods are more than imaginary. They do exist for real, but considered as just demons not almighty God.
Peace

truthislight: @dehomer
Yea! U are right there.
Ie. The one god that the monotheist have the atheist dont even have it. (one god less)
So, by the time u minus the one god that the theist have they are both the same..:
Lol.
After they both reject every other god(atheist and mono theist) if u should just remove the one god left for monotheist he is = atheist...

Agreed, that is if the theist will agree for that one god to go he then becomes atheist.

Ok, cyrexx. We can let this issue to sleep, we can see where u are coming from.

But take note. Some theist believe that those other gods are more than imaginary. They do exist for real, but considered as just demons not almighty God.
Peace

Even if they consider them as being demons, they still need to believe in a supreme good God in order to accept these demons who aren't Gods.
It is good that you've been able to see the point that many other religious people have just been confusing themselves about.

War of attrition with no end in sight. The war between theism and atheism, between christians and non-christians each trying to convince the other of the rightness of their view, and if that doesn't work, of the idiocy of the opposing camp's view. No one wants to budge.