FXKing2012: It should first be noted that atheism was imported to Africa, our forefathers were very religious so atheism was never our thing. I had to clear this out because of the atheists in this forum who keep shouting about how Christianity and Islam were imported to Africa as if atheism was not.
With that cleared, let me give you the 5 arguments that killed atheism:

1) Dreams come true: have you ever dreamed and it later happened to you in real life? Most people (if not all) have experienced this, so how do u explain it if you dont believe in the spirit realm?

2) De javu: Have you ever had a feeling of de javu? If so then how do u explain it away?

3) Universal Order: The order that exists in the universe, given the way the planets and stars complement one another, is just extraordinary and could never have been an accident; how the energy level on earth is just enough for life to flourish; how microbes, plants and animals all complement one another in the delicate balance of life, etc etc. Do you think all these is just one big coincidence? There must be an intelligent being (does not matter the name you choose to call it)behind it all.

4) Cause and Effect: For every cause there is definitely an effect. If there is life on earth and the universe is well balanced, something (or someone) must have caused it - it couldnt have all happened out of nothing.

5) Life on Earth: Life can NEVER come from any inanimate object, so where do u think life came from? There is definitely someone out there who gave life to the first life.

My response:

1. DREAM
There are three phases of sleep and depending on how exhausted the body is, a dream may occur in between these phases notably during REM. REM? (Rapid Eyes Movement) Take for instance, suppose you were staring at a door-knob, your eyes fixated at the shiny metal knob and suddenly, a wall-gecko brisks by, you involuntarily move the position of your pupils from the door knob line of sight towards the location of the wall-gecko's line of sight. Such act of observation is called 'seeing' or 'watching' which is what goes on during REM because the pupil rapidly moves from one direction to another, seeing visuals, watching moving images. The next question is where does these 'visual images' comes from? There's an abstract thing called 'mind' which is responsible for our emotions, logic, intellects, reasoning and ofcourse 'imagination' which is the keypoint here been that when one imagines, one can be said to be visualising one's own thoughts e.g. 'kissing someone' or 'passing an exam' or 'surviving an accident'; kind of like watching one's own imagination. In other words the visual images seen by the eyes is generated from the mind, at this juncture I'm provided with the liberty to define 'dream' as the pre-lucid experience of visualising one's own imagination while 'dreaming' is the visual feedback of residual thoughts ex-imagined on a conscious mind, induced by the sub-conscious self. If the pupils are static, the subject would experience either a drifty or normal or deep sleep (no dream). I have dreamt about events that I wished could happen but never did, I have dreamt about nightmares that never transpired. I have had disturbing real life experience I never previously dreamt of, likewise have I had several delightful moments I never dreamt prior to. So no dreams actually come true. Your point of a dream coming true is highly subjective, unless taken metaphorically. You've only made a futile attempt in trying to connect the phenomenon of 'dreaming' to confirm the existence of semitic God (Yaweh/Allah) by claiming they govern a spirit-realm otherwise known as the dream-state. To further crush your 'pillar of dream' I will sincerely tell you that I personally do experience what is called 'phantasmagoria' an experience more weird than 'dejavu' yet never attributed it to any divinity, rather I took time to understand what it is, even before I knew it had a name. In conclusion, most people who think that to dream is an evidence of God's existence should explain why is it that in Yorubaland here, there are mysterious cases of people who after sleeping never wakes up again. Did God allowed Satan the Devil to have a field day? Well, in Yoruba belief system or theology...according to a aspect of Ifa known as Ishegun (craft of ogun) [a repository of various esoteric knowledge and science as thoughts by the 'irunmole' osanyin] contains means where one's dream state can be intruded by.....I won't go into that......and even if I should....it still wouldn't still confirm the existence of Yaweh/Allah but rather ours which is Olodumare and his 400 irunmole/orusha (Olorun is not God but a deity of the sky in Yoruba theology...Olu Orun i.e. Lord of The Sky. Orun is not heaven in Yoruba language, Orun is the blue sky while Ofurufu is the cloud. The concept of heaven and hell was borrowed into the Yoruba etymology from christeo-judaic influence. The Greeks have Atlas in their myths..Note: Mythology is neither true nor false. It is erroneous to relegate the Yoruba pantheon to a mythological status because Irumole/Orisha Ayilala do respond when *contactivated*)

2. DE JAVU
There's no such thing as a real de javu. It's a french term adopted to describe a feeling of reliving a particular event twice or more which is very different from 'Phantasmagoria' which is - in my own case involves the conscious partaking or observation of a series of real events that strongly SEEMS familiar, mostly from a dream. So what does that tell you - flashforwarding of one's own consciousness to a future time by an upped mind to be experienced later in reality. DeJavu on the other hand is the effect you feel whenever the mind recalls a repressed memory of event previously relived in a sub-conscious mind-state. It has a lot to do with incoming stream of sensory information overwritten into a SECTOR of the memory lane with SIMILAR make-up. My sister once passed a place where she spotted a red car with people passing by as normal, after a year later, she had forgotten (let assign a value to that event: 'FXK2f5y433z18r' which is repressed somewhere in the recesses of her memory bank since it's an insignificant or irrelevant stream of sensory information) but only to be recalled when she passed that same spot seeing either that same red car or a similar one with people passing by as usual, the difference this time around is that the sensory information would read almost the same as: FXL2g5y423z18y. It is the result of this conflict in storage location one feels as 'DeJavu. She told me her experience but none of us knew such thing had a name because we were like 9 - 10 years old back then. To her it was indeed very weird. Once again...another cheap attempt to validate the existence of the Abrahamic gods.

3. UNIVERSAL ORDER
What a gimmick! You even shot yourself with a Russian Roulette. Are you aware that your analysis up there about planetary order, microbes, etc were all knowable thanks to science - the enemy of Abrahamic faiths. Talking about order...then tell me why is Uranus not obeying that order in it clock-wise orbit round the sun? Science explores and understand how things work, using that knowledge to the benefit or detriment of mankind. If anyone really want to know how everything began...I recommend the study of Yoruba Theology as espoused in Ifa. It had long provided answers to the tough debate that the Chicken came before the Egg. Genesis of Earthling.

4. CAUSE AND EFFECT
To quote you:

for every cause there is definitely an effect.
Ofcourse we already know that as a scientific axiom whose origin isn't from any of the revealed books. Please refer to the First Law of Motion to be further cleared in that.

there is life on earth and the universe is well balanced
Have you explored the whole universe for you to assert the whole universe is 'well balanced'? Define balance within the context of your usage, How do you know there isn't chaos happening somewhere in another galaxy gazillion of light years away right now? How are you or the bible so sure Earth is the only planet that has life form? How would you describe as exploding over-densed gas also known as 'star'...Chaotic? Orderly?

something (or someone) must have caused it
Something - YES (science of Evolution and Big Bang Theory)
Someone - NO (not an omni-potent God who after creating the heavenly bodies still needs to REST on the seventh day) Have you heard about the omni-potent paradox before? Can an god be so omnipotent that it would create a stone so heavy that it can never carry? Duh!.......even in Yoruba theology...Olodunare whom Ifa never address it as neither a he nor a she wasn't credited as the creator of the universe. It just says it is 'awamaridi' i.e. It that is searched but never found....Olodumare isn't the same with the Jewish 'Yaweh/Jeovah' nor the Arabic 'Allah' because their characteristics completely differs. The Christian God (Yaweh/Jeovah) has an adversary known as Satan the Devil. The Yorubas Olodumare has no adversary, though there's a passage in deep Ifa that says 'Owo ni kan lo wo oju Olodumare' i.e. (Out of the 400 irunmoles/oruishas sent to ile-aiye (earth), it is only the irunmole called 'Owo' (money) that challenged Olodumare as saying 'he/she has become more popular and famous than Olodumare their Master, and so Olodumare laid 'ge-gun fun' (pronounced a curse on it) that 'won ma ma wa e kiri gbo gbo ojo ile aiye, iwo na ama wa won' meaning everyone would be searching for the proud and famous irunmole/orisha called 'Owo' and vice versa....this is 'deism'. Our ancestors understood the climate, weather and meteorology and heuhemerised these knowledge into a personification called Shango identified as the deity of justice and revenge not the erroneous 'God of Thunder' like Thor or Zeus. There are babalawos who still retain that knowledge of invoking rain or holding one.

Check out my post here: https://www.nairaland.com/961735/nigeria-better-off-leaders-swears


it couldnt have all happened out of nothing
If you were born into a stone age era, you'd probably think there's someone or something moving the winds, breeze and air. Elementary science explains that movement of air or wind is as a result of convective factors such as the difference in the rate of rapid evaporation due to massive heat and rainfall. My point been if certain conditions occurs their certainly going to be an effect. It is that conditions in the field of 'origin of human existence' some conveniently chose to reason as a 'the causer'. An good analogy is when certain conditions are established in your anatomy, the result is to fart. Did you cause it? No, the condition did. Yet another weak throw to dislodge atheism.

5. LIFE ON EARTH
I'm sure I have answered this 'absurd question' somewhere up there, which is very similar to the common one asked by many Nigerian religionists whenever they can't debate intelligently, they ignorantly ask me 'who created you?' And I love to answer 'what created me is my dad's sperm and mum's egg'.

Life can NEVER come from any inanimate object
You are right but ONLY if its an object. A virus isn't an object but an organism that is either active or inactive depending on the condition. Go read about bio-genesis and isomorphism. Then again you will have to define 'Life' within religious context.

In conclusion:
I personally do experience lots of synchronicity which up till today still can't make sense of it but I very much know it has to do with my own 'mental evolution' which may be due years of 'mind experiment'. I never for once attributed my ordeals to any religion nor Ifa itself. I'm sure you must have heard about 'placebo effect' before....now take for instance a catholic old woman whose responding positive to a placebo drug may attribute her recovery to a divinity been the foundation make-up of her psyche/mentality.

Next time try attacking deist and pagans, while leaving the atheists to attack you with 'burden of proof'. Finally atheism was not imported to Africa. Our ancestors had divergent views about living (not life), they shared one belief system which is what you love to call 'idolatory'. Please define idolatory if you don't mind.

https://www.nairaland.com/985810/5-arguments-killed-atheism/2#11388760

The above post is incredibly shallow, meaningless and wholly nonsensical.

^^^^

Would you mind telling us how?

Shhh! Be still

Deep Sight:
The above post is incredibly shallow, meaningless and wholly nonsensical.

E ya! Am so sorry I didn't consider certain douchebags who wouldn't comprehend it. Anyway I appreciate you yourself to point that out.

ghostofsparta:

1. DREAM
There are three phases of sleep and depending on how exhausted the body is, a dream may occur in between these phases notably during REM. REM? (Rapid Eyes Movement) Take for instance, suppose you were staring at a door-knob, your eyes fixated at the shiny metal knob and suddenly, a wall-gecko brisks by, you involuntarily move the position of your pupils from the door knob line of sight towards the location of the wall-gecko's line of sight. Such act of observation is called 'seeing' or 'watching' which is what goes on during REM because the pupil rapidly moves from one direction to another, seeing visuals, watching <a class="inlineAdmedialink" href="#"><a class="inlineAdmedialink" href="#">moving</a></a> images. The next question is where does these 'visual images' comes from? There's an abstract thing called 'mind' which is responsible for our emotions, logic, intellects, reasoning and ofcourse 'imagination' which is the keypoint here been that when one imagines, one can be said to be visualising one's own thoughts e.g. 'kissing someone' or 'passing an exam' or 'surviving an accident'; kind of like watching one's own imagination. In other words the visual images seen by the eyes is generated from the mind, at this juncture I'm provided with the liberty to define 'dream' as the pre-lucid experience of visualising one's own imagination while 'dreaming' is the visual feedback of residual thoughts ex-imagined on a conscious mind, induced by the sub-conscious self. If the pupils are static, the subject would experience either a drifty or normal or deep sleep (no dream). I have dreamt about <a class="inlineAdmedialink" href="#"><a class="inlineAdmedialink" href="#">events</a></a> that I wished could happen but never did, I have dreamt about nightmares that never transpired. I have had disturbing real life experience I never previously dreamt of, likewise have I had several delightful moments I never dreamt prior to. So no dreams actually come true. Your point of a dream coming true is highly subjective, unless taken metaphorically. You've only made a futile attempt in trying to connect the phenomenon of 'dreaming' to confirm the existence of semitic God (Yaweh/Allah) by claiming they govern a spirit-realm otherwise known as the dream-state. To further crush your 'pillar of dream' I will sincerely tell you that I personally do experience what is called 'phantasmagoria' an experience more weird than 'dejavu' yet never attributed it to any divinity, rather I took time to understand what it is, even before I knew it had a name. In conclusion, most people who think that to dream is an evidence of God's existence should explain why is it that in Yorubaland here, there are mysterious cases of people who after sleeping never wakes up again. Did God allowed Satan the Devil to have a field day? Well, in Yoruba belief system or theology...according to a aspect of Ifa known as Ishegun (craft of ogun) [a repository of various esoteric knowledge and science as thoughts by the 'irunmole' osanyin] contains means where one's dream state can be intruded by.....I won't go into that......and even if I should....it still wouldn't still confirm the existence of Yaweh/Allah but rather ours which is Olodumare and his 400 irunmole/orusha (Olorun is not God but a deity of the sky in Yoruba theology...Olu Orun i.e. Lord of The Sky. Orun is not heaven in Yoruba language, Orun is the blue sky while Ofurufu is the cloud. The concept of heaven and hell was borrowed into the Yoruba etymology from christeo-judaic influence. The Greeks have Atlas in their myths..Note: Mythology is neither true nor false. It is erroneous to relegate the Yoruba pantheon to a mythological status because Irumole/Orisha Ayilala do respond when *contactivated*)

That was one long and SENSELESS post.

1. The OP referred to an instance whereby for example Mr A goes to bed and has a dream. In that dream, he,
a. walks into a street called "pity street"
b. is approached by a white man named Kevin
c. Kevin is in a blue suit
d. Kevin spoke to Mr A in a SCOTTISH accent.
e. At the end of that conversation Kevin hands over £20 to Mr A.

Mr A wakes up and realises that he has been dreaming. On a sober reflection of the dream, he also acknowledges that
a. He does not know any street called pity street.
b. He has no friend by the name Kevin who has a Scottish accent.
c. He does not know why anyone would hand over £20 to anyone. Hence, Mr A dismisses this dream.

72 hours later, Mr A finds himself stranded on pity street after his bus (mode of public transport) journey is terminated. <a class="inlineAdmedialink" href="#">London</a> bus drivers are on strike from 6pm. There is no way for him to get home. Out of his predicament, one of the fellow bus riders named Kevin with a scottish accent, gets into a conversation with him. Kevin offers to pay for Mr A's taxi ride back home, Mr A is pleased, hence, £20 is offered and received. Only when he got home did he realize that he had dreamt of this incident 72 hours ago.

The point is
A. The human brain is incapable of conjuring future events. Hence your instance of imagination propelling such dreams is rather POINTLESS.
B. People dying in sleep in yoruba land has nothing to do with the potency of dreams coming to pass. are you educated at all?
C. The dream in the above example is a message, that eventually comes to pass. The message could only have come from someone capable of knowing the future. This is an accurate description of God. In lieu of this, the OP submits that dreams serve as a plausible evidence for the existence of God.

2. DE JAVU
There's no such thing as a real de javu. It's a french term adopted to describe a feeling of reliving a particular event twice or more which is <a class="inlineAdmedialink" href="#"><a class="inlineAdmedialink" href="#">very</a></a> different from 'Phantasmagoria' which is - in my own case involves the conscious partaking or observation of a series of real events that strongly SEEMS familiar, mostly from a dream. So what does that tell you - flashforwarding of one's own consciousness to a future time by an upped mind to be experienced later in reality. DeJavu on the other hand is the effect you feel whenever the mind recalls a repressed memory of event previously relived in a sub-conscious mind-state. It has a lot to do with incoming stream of sensory information overwritten into a SECTOR of the memory lane with SIMILAR make-up. My sister once passed a place where she spotted a red <a class="inlineAdmedialink" href="#"><a class="inlineAdmedialink" href="#">car</a></a> with people passing by as normal, after a year later, she had forgotten (let assign a value to that event: 'FXK2f5y433z18r' which is repressed somewhere in the recesses of her memory bank since it's an insignificant or irrelevant stream of sensory information) but only to be recalled when she passed that same spot seeing either that same red car or a similar one with people passing by as usual, the difference this time around is that the sensory information would read almost the same as: FXL2g5y423z18y. It is the result of this conflict in <a class="inlineAdmedialink" href="#"><a class="inlineAdmedialink" href="#">storage</a></a> location one feels as 'DeJavu. She told me her experience but none of us knew such thing had a name because we were like 9 - 10 years old back then. To her it was indeed very weird. Once again...another cheap attempt to validate the existence of the Abrahamic gods.

You are IGNORANT. For you to say that there is no such thing as Deja vu, you simply killed the argument with your intellectual incapacity. Go do some further reading and then come back.

3. UNIVERSAL ORDER
What a gimmick! You even shot yourself with a Russian Roulette. Are you aware that your analysis up there about planetary order, microbes, etc were all knowable thanks to science - the enemy of Abrahamic faiths. Talking about order...then tell me why is Uranus not obeying that order in it clock-wise orbit round the sun? Science explores and understand how things <a class="inlineAdmedialink" href="#"><a class="inlineAdmedialink" href="#">work</a></a>, using that knowledge to the benefit or detriment of mankind. If anyone really want to know how everything began...I recommend the study of Yoruba Theology as espoused in Ifa. It had long provided answers to the tough debate that the Chicken came before the Egg. Genesis of Earthling.

This is quite MISLEADING and exposes a deep rooted ignorance in you. Abrahamic faiths (Christianity in particular) does not negate science, unless of course you dont know the meaning of science.

4. CAUSE AND EFFECT
To quote you:

for every cause there is definitely an effect.
Ofcourse we already know that as a scientific axiom whose origin isn't from any of the revealed books. Please refer to the First Law of Motion to be further cleared in that.

there is life on earth and the universe is well balanced
Have you explored the whole universe for you to assert the whole universe is 'well balanced'? Define balance within the context of your usage, How do you know there isn't chaos happening somewhere in another galaxy gazillion of <a class="inlineAdmedialink" href="#">light</a> years away right now? How are you or the bible so sure Earth is the only planet that has life form? How would you describe as exploding over-densed gas also known as 'star'...Chaotic? Orderly?

something (or someone) must have caused it
Something - YES (science of Evolution and Big Bang Theory)
Someone - NO (not an omni-potent God who after creating the heavenly bodies still needs to REST on the seventh day) Have you heard about the omni-potent paradox before? Can an god be so omnipotent that it would create a stone so heavy that it can never carry? Duh!.......even in Yoruba theology...Olodunare whom Ifa never address it as neither a he nor a she wasn't credited as the creator of the universe. It just says it is 'awamaridi' i.e. It that is searched but never found....Olodumare isn't the same with the Jewish 'Yaweh/Jeovah' nor the Arabic 'Allah' because their characteristics completely differs. The Christian God (Yaweh/Jeovah) has an adversary known as Satan the Devil. The Yorubas Olodumare has no adversary, though there's a passage in deep Ifa that says 'Owo ni kan lo wo oju Olodumare' i.e. (Out of the 400 irunmoles/oruishas sent to ile-aiye (earth), it is only the irunmole called 'Owo' (money) that challenged Olodumare as saying 'he/she has become more popular and famous than Olodumare their Master, and so Olodumare laid 'ge-gun fun' (pronounced a curse on it) that 'won ma ma wa e kiri gbo gbo ojo ile aiye, iwo na ama wa won' meaning everyone would be searching for the proud and famous irunmole/orisha called 'Owo' and vice versa....this is 'deism'. Our ancestors understood the climate, weather and meteorology and heuhemerised these knowledge into a personification called Shango identified as the deity of justice and revenge not the erroneous 'God of Thunder' like Thor or Zeus. There are babalawos who still retain that knowledge of invoking rain or holding one.

Check out my post here: https://www.nairaland.com/961735/nigeria-better-off-leaders-swears


it couldnt have all happened out of nothing
If you were born into a stone age era, you'd probably think there's someone or something moving the winds, breeze and air. Elementary science explains that movement of air or wind is as a result of convective factors such as the difference in the rate of rapid evaporation due to massive heat and rainfall. My point been if certain conditions occurs their certainly going to be an effect. It is that conditions in the field of 'origin of human existence' some conveniently chose to reason as a 'the causer'. An good analogy is when certain conditions are established in your anatomy, the result is to fart. Did you cause it? No, the condition did. Yet another weak throw to dislodge atheism.

You made no SENSE.

5. LIFE ON EARTH
I'm sure I have answered this 'absurd question' somewhere up there, which is very similar to the common one asked by many Nigerian religionists whenever they can't debate intelligently, they ignorantly ask me 'who created you?' And I love to answer 'what created me is my dad's sperm and mum's egg'.

Life can NEVER come from any inanimate object
You are right but ONLY if its an object. A virus isn't an object but an organism that is either active or inactive depending on the condition. Go read about bio-genesis and isomorphism. Then again you will have to define 'Life' within religious context.

In conclusion:
I personally do experience lots of synchronicity which up till today still can't make sense of it but I very much know it has to do with my own 'mental evolution' which may be due years of 'mind experiment'. I never for once attributed my ordeals to any religion nor Ifa itself. I'm sure you must have heard about 'placebo effect' before....now take for instance a catholic old woman whose responding positive to a placebo drug may attribute her recovery to a divinity been the foundation make-up of her psyche/mentality.

Next time try attacking deist and pagans, while leaving the atheists to attack you with 'burden of proof'. Finally atheism was not imported to Africa. Our ancestors had divergent views about living (not life), they shared one belief system which is what you love to call 'idolatory'. Please define idolatory if you don't mind.

Your Dads sperm and mum's egg created you, Fine. What/who created the first living person?

ow11: ^^^^
Would you mind telling us how?

It all started when a silly person decided to start a thread bashing atheists using some inane arguments based on appeals to ignorance. Then, the ghostofsparta decided to refute the ignorance with even more inanities and then decided that his ridiculous rebuttal of the original "arguments" are worthy of a new thread.

It's freaking hilarious!!!!

To make it even funnier, the "atheist", ghostofparta believes in ifa.

ghostofsparta: Shhh! Be still

E ya! Am so sorry I didn't consider certain douchebags who wouldn't comprehend it. Anyway I appreciate you yourself to point that out.

Please settle down

ow11: ^^^^

Would you mind telling us how?

Would you mind telling us how not.

Martian:

It all started when a silly person decided to start a thread bashing atheists using some inane arguments based on appeals to ignorance. Then, the ghostofsparta decided to refute the ignorance with even more inanities and then decided that his ridiculous rebuttal of the original "arguments" are worthy of a new thread.

It's freaking hilarious!!!!

To make it even funnier, the "atheist", ghostofparta believes in ifa.

I no fit shout.

noetic16: Your Dads sperm and mum's egg created you, Fine. What/who created the first living person?

Honestly.

Daft dudes.

Martian:

It all started when a silly person decided to start a thread bashing atheists using some inane arguments based on appeals to ignorance. Then, the ghostofsparta decided to refute the ignorance with even more inanities and then decided that his ridiculous rebuttal of the original "arguments" are worthy of a new thread.

It's freaking hilarious!!!!

And finally the jobless freak from Mars came along to summarize it all...

Martian:
To make it even funnier, the "atheist", ghostofparta believes in ifa.

Martian freak mind checking here: https://www.nairaland.com/984842/logicboy-effect-message-all-nairaland/3#11378359

noetic16:

That was one long and SENSELESS post.

1. The OP referred to an instance whereby for example Mr A goes to bed and has a dream. In that dream, he,
a. walks into a street called "pity street"
b. is approached by a white man named Kevin
c. Kevin is in a blue suit
d. Kevin spoke to Mr A in a SCOTTISH accent.
e. At the end of that conversation Kevin hands over £20 to Mr A.

Mr A wakes up and realises that he has been dreaming. On a sober reflection of the dream, he also acknowledges that
a. He does not know any street called pity street.
b. He has no friend by the name Kevin who has a Scottish accent.
c. He does not know why anyone would hand over £20 to anyone. Hence, Mr A dismisses this dream.

72 hours later, Mr A finds himself stranded on pity street after his bus (mode of public transport) journey is terminated. <a class="inlineAdmedialink" href="#">London</a> bus drivers are on strike from 6pm. There is no way for him to get home. Out of his predicament, one of the fellow bus riders named Kevin with a scottish accent, gets into a conversation with him. Kevin offers to pay for Mr A's taxi ride back home, Mr A is pleased, hence, £20 is offered and received. Only when he got home did he realize that he had dreamt of this incident 72 hours ago.

The point is
A. The human brain is incapable of conjuring future events. Hence your instance of imagination propelling such dreams is rather POINTLESS.
B. People dying in sleep in yoruba land has nothing to do with the potency of dreams coming to pass. are you educated at all?
C. The dream in the above example is a message, that eventually comes to pass. The message could only have come from someone capable of knowing the future. This is an accurate description of God. In lieu of this, the OP submits that dreams serve as a plausible evidence for the existence of God.

I agree that the human brain (mind) is capable of flash-forwarding (Not conjuring) to a future event, and in as much as your Kevin scenario is very much possible, it still highly subjective...however still, I disagree with the part of attributing the source of the message to be from God (Jeovah/Allah) in order to confirm his existence. It all have to do with the mind/level of consciousness. I have a friend who told me he dreamt about a friend of his who brought him poisoned oranges and the other day, the said friend came around to offered him oranges. He said he took it but later threw them away. I asked him how did he knew the oranges where poisoned in the dream...he said he could feel they were. This my friend is a 'rude guy' if you know what I mean, and also A womaniser who doesn't give a hoot about religious belief despite he identifies with Christianity...according to your argument - it was God that sent him that message abi?

noetic16:
You are IGNORANT. For you to say that there is no such thing as Deja vu, you simply killed the argument with your intellectual incapacity. Go do some further reading and then come back.

I didn't say there is no such thing as a DejaVu. What I said 'no real deja vu' I was referring to Hollywood-style dejavu such as in the movie 'DeJaVu' and 'Matrix'. I tried to explain the phenomenon of dejavu in order to disconnect it as proof of an existing God (Yaweh/Allah)

noetic16:
Your Dads sperm and mum's egg created you, Fine. What/who created the first living person?

Why don't you go ask 'google' who created the first living person. What an absurd question. Why should I be bothered. I sure know it wasn't Adam and Eve (creationism), I rather stick to The Odua Strain Theory. Go read about EVOLUTION.

ghostofsparta:

Why don't you go ask 'google' who created the first living person. What an absurd question. Why should I be bothered. I sure know it wasn't Adam and Eve (creationism), I rather stick to The Odua Strain Theory. Go read about EVOLUTION.

Really, you just woke up from some marijuana induced sleep didn't you.

I should know. . .back in those days. . .

Mr ghost of sparta,

kudos for ur work.if not that i have had dreams that came to pass, i would have fallen for your post

other arguements made no coherence especially when u started mentioning the god of IFA.

I give you kudos for ur conter attack .

ghostofsparta:

My response:
3. UNIVERSAL ORDER
What a gimmick! You even shot yourself with a Russian Roulette. Are you aware that your analysis up there about planetary order, microbes, etc were all knowable thanks to science - the enemy of Abrahamic faiths. Talking about order...then tell me why is Uranus not obeying that order in it clock-wise orbit round the sun? Science explores and understand how things work, using that knowledge to the benefit or detriment of mankind. If anyone really want to know how everything began...I recommend the study of Yoruba Theology as espoused in Ifa. It had long provided answers to the tough debate that the Chicken came before the Egg. Genesis of Earthling.

Nonsense.

1. Science is not an enemy to Abrahamic faiths... that is the myth atheists constantly try to force in order to continue the narrative of faith being an illogical thought process.

2. Let me ask you a question... what determined the order with which the planets revolve around the sun? Random chaos?

ghostofsparta:
4. CAUSE AND EFFECT
To quote you:

for every cause there is definitely an effect.
something (or someone) must have caused it
Something - YES (science of Evolution and Big Bang Theory)

I was going along with your argument until you claimed that evolution and the big [i]ba[/i]ng theory are responsible for the earth's creation. Can you explain how the big b[i]a[/i]ng theory led to the creation of the planets and life forms pls?

davidylan:

Nonsense.

1. Science is not an enemy to Abrahamic faiths... that is the myth atheists constantly try to force in order to continue the narrative of faith being an illogical thought process.

and yet you believe biblical explanations of Creation conflict with scientific explanations of evolution an big bang?!

I was going along with your argument until you claimed that evolution and the big [i]ba[/i]ng theory are responsible for the earth's creation. Can you explain how the big b[i]a[/i]ng theory led to the creation of the planets and life forms pls?

He doesn't need to explain in great detail why big bang or evolution is true, what matters is if they are scientific theories and why they conflict with Biblical provisions.

Kay 17: and yet you believe biblical explanations of Creation conflict with scientific explanations of evolution an big bang?!


He doesn't need to explain in great detail why big bang or evolution is true, what matters is if they are scientific theories and why they conflict with Biblical provisions.

Kay 17, you are missing out something or conflating things.

Challenging the theory of evolution is NOT the same thing as saying it conflicts with "biblical explanations"!

Challenging the theory of evolution is NOT necessarily because it may be thought to conflict with "biblical explanations"!

Challenging the theory of evolution does NOT have to be because it may be thought to conflict with "biblical explanations"

The real issue is whether, despite the apparent plausibility of aspects of the theory of evolution, the theory is at all sufficiently proven as to be accepted without question. There is plenty to suggest that it is not to be so accepted ---- too many things not satisfactorily proven at all.


So please do not mislead yourself and others by bringing the Bible into it. The Bible has a creation account, yes, and we are trying our best to understand that account and just exactly what it is meant to portray.

tobechi74: Mr ghost of sparta,

kudos for ur work.if not that i have had dreams that came to pass, i would have fallen for your post

other arguements made no coherence especially when u started mentioning the god of IFA.

I give you kudos for ur conter attack .

Re-read my response...I didn't say dreams don't come to pass...what I object is linking it to confirm the existence of a God (Yaweh/Allah) which I tried to explain the mechanics of dreaming. My introduction of Ifa to the topic is to confer an aspect within Ifa wherein contains metaphysical means of intruding into one's dream. Have you seen 'Inception'?

Let me also ask you... were your dreams as vivid as it was in reality.

ghostofsparta:
Re-read my response...I didn't say dreams don't come to pass...what I object is linking it to confirm the existence of a God (Yaweh/Allah) which I tried to explain the mechanics of dreaming. My introduction of Ifa to the topic is to confer an aspect within Ifa wherein contains metaphysical means of intruding into one's dream. Have you seen 'Inception'?

Ahhhhhhhhhhhh, I love this place. Only place where you can see the movie "inception" and "ifa" mentioned in the same breath. lol

Enigma:


Kay 17, you are missing out something or conflating things.

Challenging the theory of evolution is NOT the same thing as saying it conflicts with "biblical explanations"!

Challenging the theory of evolution is NOT necessarily because it may be thought to conflict with "biblical explanations"!

Challenging the theory of evolution does NOT have to be because it may be thought to conflict with "biblical explanations"

The real issue is whether, despite the apparent plausibility of aspects of the theory of evolution, the theory is at all sufficiently proven as to be accepted without question. There is plenty to suggest that it is not to be so accepted ---- too many things not satisfactorily proven at all.


So please do not mislead yourself and others by bringing the Bible into it. The Bible has a creation account, yes, and we are trying our best to understand that account and just exactly what it is meant to portray.

Of course. BUT Davidlyan has a history of finding natural solutions to the Origin of Life, evolution to be unscientific. Also imposing the primacy of biblical provisions.

davidylan:

Nonsense.

1. Science is not an enemy to Abrahamic faiths... that is the myth atheists constantly try to force in order to continue the narrative of faith being an illogical thought process.

Actually, it is. This can easily be demonstrated using the Bible which I'm most familiar with among the Abrahamic religions.

davidylan:
2. Let me ask you a question... what determined the order with which the planets revolve around the sun? Random chaos?

No, their order is determined by physical laws.

davidylan:
I was going along with your argument until you claimed that evolution and the big [i]ba[/i]ng theory are responsible for the earth's creation. Can you explain how the big b[i]a[/i]ng theory led to the creation of the planets and life forms pls?

The big bang in a sense is responsible for it even though various scientific theories are limited in their scope.
If one accepts that the big bang is the best explanation for the universe we see today, then they accept that it is responsible for the physical objects currently in it.

davidylan:

Nonsense.

1. Science is not an enemy to Abrahamic faiths... that is the myth atheists constantly try to force in order to continue the narrative of faith being an illogical thought process.

Yes you are correct that science isn't an enemy to Abrahamic faiths but why does the Abrahamic religions stand as enemy to scientific progression? Heliocentric vs Geocentric system? Stem cell research? Cloning? NFRID chip? Solar technology? etc...and yes faith in Abrahamic faith is an illogical thought process because why should I believe in Angel when many haven't actually seen one before...but isn't it logical to have faith in Ayilala or Shango deity because it is a fact that when one of two or more people swears an oath under their *contactivated* presence who later betrays the condition of the sworn oath....something inexplicable and supernatural always happen. Take for instance - you and I swore with the God of the Holy books never to reveal or sell the source code of a billion dollar-prospective mind-revealing software that we worked our arses for years to develop and perfected prior to a proposal or launch...and I went behind your back to sell the source-code to Microsoft or Google, claiming I'm the owner and received billions Do you honestly believe God(Allah/Yaweh) would strike me? If your answer is a frank Yes...then why hasn't 'he' struck our corrupt and greedy legislooters, sinators and governors who swear with the Quran and Holy Bible and yet embezzle public funds. If you and I were to make such an oath under the presence of Amadioha or Ogun or Shango or Ayilala...fear of it or not, believe in it or not....something will happen....this you know just as many.

davidylan:
2. Let me ask you a question... what determined the order with which the planets revolve around the sun? Random chaos?

Why can't you go ask astronomers in NASA. If you are attempting to connect planetary order to the work of a divine Creator, then isn't it dis-orderly for Uranus and Venus to rotate in counter direction of other planets. Even the knowledge of planets, asteroids, meteorites, comets etc in terms of their sizes, mass, axial degree, temperature, composition, etc were not gleaned from the Holy Bible or Quran but from science.

davidylan:
I was going along with your argument until you claimed that evolution and the big [i]ba[/i]ng theory are responsible for the earth's creation. Can you explain how the big b[i]a[/i]ng theory led to the creation of the planets and life forms pls?

Evolution theory is responsible for the process that took place, leading to our present human form - Homo-erectus. Various fields in Biology would explain how life form began. Big B*ng theory provides a credible explanation of how the universe began....origin of the universe.

Kay 17:

Of course. BUT Davidlyan has a history of finding natural solutions to the Origin of Life, evolution to be unscientific. Also imposing the primacy of biblical provisions.

Davidylan is a self-confusing robot

Martian:

Ahhhhhhhhhhhh, I love this place. Only place where you can see the movie "inception" and "ifa" mentioned in the same breath. lol

Your point been?

ghostofsparta:

Evolution theory is responsible for the process that took place leading to our present human form - Homo-erectus.

Chei, see illiteracy. So our present human form is homo erectus? ? ? ? ? ?

And you dared open a boastful thread claiming to teach people evolution.

You are a disgrace.

Abeg helep yasef -

Homo erectus (meaning "upright man," from the Latin ērĭgĕre, "to put up, set upright" ) is an extinct species of hominid that lived from the end of the Pliocene epoch to the later Pleistocene, about 1.3 to 1.8 million years ago. The species originated in Africa and spread as far as India, China and Java.[1][2] There is still disagreement on the subject of the classification, ancestry, and progeny of H. erectus, with two major alternative classifications: erectus may be another name for Homo ergaster, and therefore the direct ancestor of later hominids such as Homo heidelbergensis, Homo neanderthalensis, and Homo sapiens; or it may be an Asian species distinct from African ergaster.[1][3][4] Some paleoanthropologists consider H. ergaster to be simply the African variety of H. erectus, this leads to the use of the term "Homo erectus sensu stricto" for the Asian H. Erectus, and "Homo erectus sensu lato" for the larger species comprising both the early African populations (H. ergaster) and the Asian populations.[5][6]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homo_erectus

ghostofsparta:

Davidylan is a self-confusing robot

Really? Says the guy who thinks our present form is homo erectus? you people are jokes.

Deep Sight:

Chei, see illiteracy. So our present human form is homo erectus? ? ? ? ? ?

And you dared open a boastful thread claiming to teach people evolution.

You are a disgrace.

Abeg helep yasef -

Homo erectus (meaning "upright man," from the Latin ērĭgĕre, "to put up, set upright" ) is an extinct species of hominid that lived from the end of the Pliocene epoch to the later Pleistocene, about 1.3 to 1.8 million years ago. The species originated in Africa and spread as far as India, China and Java.[1][2] There is still disagreement on the subject of the classification, ancestry, and progeny of H. erectus, with two major alternative classifications: erectus may be another name for Homo ergaster, and therefore the direct ancestor of later hominids such as Homo heidelbergensis, Homo neanderthalensis, and Homo sapiens; or it may be an Asian species distinct from African ergaster.[1][3][4] Some paleoanthropologists consider H. ergaster to be simply the African variety of H. erectus, this leads to the use of the term "Homo erectus sensu stricto" for the Asian H. Erectus, and "Homo erectus sensu lato" for the larger species comprising both the early African populations (H. ergaster) and the Asian populations.[5][6]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homo_erectus

A blunder nevertheless, but he isn't an expert.

Kay 17:

A blunder nevertheless, but he isn't an expert.

Excuse me... you dont need to be an expert to know something you were taught as far back as JSS 3. Simple blunders like this are constant reminders that for all their noise and bluster... most of the atheists here are largely ignorant of the science at whose altar they bow.

Deep Sight:

Chei, see illiteracy. So our present human form is homo erectus? ? ? ? ? ?

And you dared open a boastful thread claiming to teach people evolution.

You are a disgrace.

Abeg helep yasef -

Homo erectus (meaning "upright man," from the Latin ērĭgĕre, "to put up, set upright" ) is an extinct species of hominid that lived from the end of the Pliocene epoch to the later Pleistocene, about 1.3 to 1.8 million years ago. The species originated in Africa and spread as far as India, China and Java.[1][2] There is still disagreement on the subject of the classification, ancestry, and progeny of H. erectus, with two major alternative classifications: erectus may be another name for Homo ergaster, and therefore the direct ancestor of later hominids such as Homo heidelbergensis, Homo neanderthalensis, and Homo sapiens; or it may be an Asian species distinct from African ergaster.[1][3][4] Some paleoanthropologists consider H. ergaster to be simply the African variety of H. erectus, this leads to the use of the term "Homo erectus sensu stricto" for the Asian H. Erectus, and "Homo erectus sensu lato" for the larger species comprising both the early African populations (H. ergaster) and the Asian populations.[5][6]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homo_erectus

Ofcourse I was aware it should be HomoSapien. I could have easily changed it if I wanted to by using the 'modify' button but I needed a religionist to fall for my trap by re-quoting my deliberate mistake because that is what all you religionists resort to here on Nairaland whenever you can't objectively counter an argument. You religionists comb our wordings looking for blunders and holes to throw back as a logical answer.

I wasn't expecting that religionist would be you: Mr. DDS (Deep Dafted Sight). I wasn't even expecting you'll shoot yourself multiple times this time around with the Russian Roulette I sub-consciously keep giving you.

Mr. DDS, doesn't your reasoning faculty find it conflicting for you to accept the Scientific/Evolutionary theory that the Homo-Erectus whom you quoted to have lived between 1.3million to 1.8million years ago clearly contradicts the Biblical/Creationist account of the earth creation 6,000 years ago?

Yours is a grand case of INTELLECTUAL HYPOCRISY.

davidylan:

Really? Says the guy who thinks our present form is homo erectus? you people are jokes.

O! Davidylan - yet another religionist caught up in my snare. I'm sorry I didn't attended to you in time.


See the joke I made out of your side-kick Mr. DDS

ghostofsparta:

Ofcourse I was aware it should be HomoSapien. I could have easily changed it if I wanted to by using the modified button but I needed a religionists to fall for my trap by re-quoting my deliberate mistake because that is what all you religionists resort to here on Nairaland whenever you can't objectively counter an argument. You religionists comb our wordings looking for blunders and holes to throw back as a logical answer.

Actually he didnt "requote" you but pointed out your glaring error. The joke is on you.