truthislight: @mr Anony
there are facts that is lost here with the say that the gospel came up late.
But lets face it, how was the Gospel from Jesus Apostle suppose to come and when?
Cosidering that it was written after Jesus death?
Some argument u enter into are plain too unnecessary.

If Jesus was born early in the first century and he live for 33yrs.
Say, 33CE
he gave a prophercy that Jerusalem will be destroyed.
That the sign will be when they see disgusting things, encamp army surround Jerusalem that they should flee from Jeruselem cus her distruction was near.

So, where should one expect the diciple to be at 70CE? In Jerusalem or that they bad fled from the city?
Inside Jerusalem? No,
they had all hidded the instructions and flee the city Jerusalem befor the destructions in 70ce.
So, when are there writings suppose to suffice from the place of hidding?
may well be over 70CE.
Besids, this historian like Josephus was a soldiar that led the revolt against the Roman, and later wrote the history.
When did you think he will settle down to start writing after the war of 70CE?

And when do u think that the diciple will consider it safe to release the gosple account after the war?

That the gosple appeared say 90CE should not be a suprising cus this was after a period of war or war times.
This are facts that those who dont care about the bible will not know.
People dont know but they will always argue.
That it came out 90ce does not mean it was written 90ce (mark was completed 65ce)
it is not on all things one should argur about. Rather, i think asking question is Good.
guy, leave em.
Peace

Mr_Anony:
My friend, one account was Luke's commentary, the other was was Paul quoted verbatim. It is not Paul contradicting himself. besides you do not know for sure if Luke's commentary was from a direct interview with Paul or from third party sources. You are only making another assumption based on your bias. Don't shade facts ever so slightly to force your point.

Mr_Anony:
My friend, one account was Luke's commentary, the other was was Paul quoted verbatim. It is not Paul contradicting himself. besides you do not know for sure if Luke's commentary was from a direct interview with Paul or from third party sources. You are only making another assumption based on your bias. Don't shade facts ever so slightly to force your point.

mazaje:

A major event like that would have been reported by multiple sources at that time, its the same as saying the september 11 attacks was reported by only a single source. . .

mazaje: Miracles that happen only in the pages on stories, no?. . .The genealogies has been explained you say but the text does NOT say that so the explanation falls flat. . .This is nothing other than saying the writers do not know what they are stating so you complete it with your own unfounded speculations, when the writers are very clear in what they were stating. . . The lineage in Matt has 12 fewer generations between Joe and Abraham than the one in Luke. So if it were true that they were separate lineages of Joe and Mary, then Joe would have been a contemporary of Mary's great, great, great, great, great, great, great, great, great, great grandfather. . .You have started with your speculations, the text clearly states what happened, according to one account it was in room in Jerusalem that he first appeared to his disciples, in another gospel account he first appeared to them on a mountain in Galilee. . .In both account when they first saw him they were scared and did not believe. . So which is it, was it on a mountain in Galilee or a room in Jerusalem?

mazaje: The fact that the gospels were written very long after Jesus and his disciples died in a language they did not speak is is enough evidence that the authors were NOT eye witness to the events. . .The author of Luke says he wasn't an eye witness. . .

truthislight: @mr Anony
there are facts that is lost here with the say that the gospel came up late.
But lets face it, how was the Gospel from Jesus Apostle suppose to come and when?
Cosidering that it was written after Jesus death?
Some argument u enter into are plain too unnecessary.

If Jesus was born early in the first century and he live for 33yrs.
Say, 33CE
he gave a prophercy that Jerusalem will be destroyed.
That the sign will be when they see disgusting things, encamp army surround Jerusalem that they should flee from Jeruselem cus her distruction was near.

So, where should one expect the diciple to be at 70CE? In Jerusalem or that they bad fled from the city?
Inside Jerusalem? No,
they had all hidded the instructions and flee the city Jerusalem befor the destructions in 70ce.
So, when are there writings suppose to suffice from the place of hidding?
may well be over 70CE.
Besids, this historian like Josephus was a soldiar that led the revolt against the Roman, and later wrote the history.
When did you think he will settle down to start writing after the war of 70CE?

And when do u think that the diciple will consider it safe to release the gosple account after the war?

That the gosple appeared say 90CE should not be a suprising cus this was after a period of war or war times.
This are facts that those who dont care about the bible will not know.
People dont know but they will always argue.
That it came out 90ce does not mean it was written 90ce (mark was completed 65ce)
it is not on all things one should argur about. Rather, i think asking question is Good.
guy, leave em.
Peace

Mr_Anony:
No, it's like saying that after 2000 years, we have only one surviving document that reports the 9/11 attacks. You can't claim it not to be true simply because you can't find another such report.





You have no better reason to reject miracles other than you simply don't believe in them and to me that is a very weak reason to give.

I didn't want to delve into genealogy because I felt was irrelevant since we both agree that Jesus existed. It is said though that Matthew does not give a strict genealogy as Luke and uses the word gennao which can be translated loosely to mean an ancestor and not necessarily father. Luke on the other hand uses the word ho which is a stricter definition "born of" this should explain for the unequal number of ancestors.

Please show me this verses you are talking about where first appeared to the same people at two different places. . . . . .(this is the only one of your points I'll consider a worthy contradiction if it was indeed true)



The fact is that the copies of the gospel available to us now were written after Jesus died. You have no way of proving they were the first and original copies or that any of the gospels apart from Luke was or wasn't penned by an eyewitness, besides, Luke draws his text from eyewitness accounts.

Delafruita:
lets assume i choose to go along with your analogy that luke was very dumb and couldnt understand simple things like "they saw the light but didnt hear the voice".meaning you agree that even when hearing from the source,luke gets the facts wrong.why then should the book of luke,which is based on hearsay,be accepted as infallible?what makes it impossible that luke made such errors while wrinting the book of luke?
besides when you read paul's narration to king agrippa,he doesnt mention ananias or getting blind.besides if the light blinded him,why didnt it blind others with him who would also require healing?lets even assume only he was blinded,he then goes to ananias who heals him,why does he keep complaning about his poor sight and keeps blaming satan for it?is it that the healing was partial healing or it had an expiry date?

Delafruita:
you mean the same luke who you just insinuated could have gotten his information fron third parties rather than paul.its funny how your arguments change to suit your point

Mr_Anony:
Are you saying that Paul was the only eyewitness to the events of his life?

Delafruita:
you were insisting to mazaje that luke got his account firsthand and when i pointed out an error in his reportage of the event on the road to damascus,you opined he might have gotten it from third parties and not paul himself.

Mr_Anony:
I said to mazaje that Luke got his info from eyewitnesses. About Paul's case with you, I said Luke could have gotten his sources from people other than Paul....and that was in response to you implying that Luke interviewed Paul. Paul is not the only eyewitness to the events of his life.

Delafruita:
you and i agree that luke wrote the Acts.isnt it then obvious that the error isnt really an error but a contradiction?this bible sef dey confuse person

Mr_Anony:
Dude, answer me honestly: Is this "contradiction/error" over who saw which light and heard which voice really shaking the christian's belief.
Also, I believe you've read the book of Acts before, Do you honestly mean to tell me that after you read the book of Acts, you truly didn't get the message and you left it perplexed and confused over Paul's account of his conversion?
Or is it perhaps that you were already beginning to doubt the truth of the bible by external influence and then you consciously started searching for "contradictions" so as to justify your new bias?

Delafruita:
paul left me confused about his conversion in the following ways-
1.one account says his co-travellers heard a voice but didnt see the light,another account says they saw the light but didnt hear the voice
2.when he is regaling agrippa with tales of his conversion,he claims to have actually seen jesus who gave him instruction on what to do.he didnt mention his blindness or ananais,however other accounts say he was blinded and asked to go to ananias for healing and INSTRUCTION.
3.in Acts,he claims he began his ministry immediately however in galatians,he says his ministry began 14 years after his journey to jerusalem which occured 3 years after his conversion

Mr_Anony:
No, it's like saying that after 2000 years, we have only one surviving document that reports the 9/11 attacks. You can't claim it not to be true simply because you can't find another such report.

You have no better reason to reject miracles other than you simply don't believe in them and to me that is a very weak reason to give.

I didn't want to delve into genealogy because I felt was irrelevant since we both agree that Jesus existed. It is said though that Matthew does not give a strict genealogy as Luke and uses the word gennao which can be translated loosely to mean an ancestor and not necessarily father. Luke on the other hand uses the word ho which is a stricter definition "born of" this should explain for the unequal number of ancestors.

Please show me this verses you are talking about where first appeared to the same people at two different places. . . . . .(this is the only one of your points I'll consider a worthy contradiction if it was indeed true)

The fact is that the copies of the gospel available to us now were written after Jesus died. You have no way of proving they were the first and original copies or that any of the gospels apart from Luke was or wasn't penned by an eyewitness, besides, Luke draws his text from eyewitness accounts.

truthislight: @mr Anony
there are facts that is lost here with the say that the gospel came up late.
But lets face it, how was the Gospel from Jesus Apostle suppose to come and when?
Cosidering that it was written after Jesus death?
Some argument u enter into are plain too unnecessary.

If Jesus was born early in the first century and he live for 33yrs.
Say, 33CE
he gave a prophercy that Jerusalem will be destroyed.
That the sign will be when they see disgusting things, encamp army surround Jerusalem that they should flee from Jeruselem cus her distruction was near.

So, where should one expect the diciple to be at 70CE? In Jerusalem or that they bad fled from the city?
Inside Jerusalem? No,
they had all hidded the instructions and flee the city Jerusalem befor the destructions in 70ce.
So, when are there writings suppose to suffice from the place of hidding?
may well be over 70CE.
Besids, this historian like Josephus was a soldiar that led the revolt against the Roman, and later wrote the history.
When did you think he will settle down to start writing after the war of 70CE?

And when do u think that the diciple will consider it safe to release the gosple account after the war?

That the gosple appeared say 90CE should not be a suprising cus this was after a period of war or war times.
This are facts that those who dont care about the bible will not know.
People dont know but they will always argue.
That it came out 90ce does not mean it was written 90ce (mark was completed 65ce)
it is not on all things one should argur about. Rather, i think asking question is Good.
guy, leave em.
Peace

Mr_Anony:

You didn't answer the question I asked. How do all these minor details affect the truth of the gospel?

mazaje:

Nope, not one surviving, because there are many other documents from that time that survived and recorded all the major events that happened, most of what we know about First century Palestine we know from Josephus and other historians that lived at that time who wrote detailed events of what happened. . .Extra ordinary claims require extra ordinary evidence, you can make extra ordinary claims that happened in history and provide religious document that disagree with some historical events as their evidence. . .



No clear cut Miracle has EVER been shown to happen, if the bible is true then you should be able to perform clear cut miracles yourself after all Jesus PROMISED those of you that believe in him to have the ability to do GREATER things than he did if ONLY you believe, if you believe in Jesus and his PROMISE then you should be able to perform clear cut miracles like healing amputees and restoring their amputated limbs back or raising people that have already been buried from the dead, Jesus we are told in the story book did them and PROMISED his followers and all those that believed in his the ability to go GREATER things, the fact that no one can do clear cut miracles in his name says miracles are nothing buy lies. . NO clear cut miracle has ever been demonstrated any where, if you believe in Jesus then you should be able to do those things yopur self as he PROMISED. . .



You don't want to delve into genealogy because you know you have NO feet to stand on there. . .Both were reporting their made up tales with different account and genealogies, you attempted the one was his father and the other was his mother nonsenses when you saw that it didnt fly the new explanation is "it can be loosely translated". . .I just dislike dishonesty and that is what christian apologist fo all the time, it can be loosely translated to mean ancestor and not father, in the context it means father and as such some bible translations used the word father, unless if you are trying to lie to me that you know greek and how it should be applied more than those that translated the bible into english because father is what the wrote not your loosely translated ancestor nonsense and fraudulent attempt to explain away the obvious contradiction. . . Where you the one that wrote the book of Luke? why should any body pay attention to your dubious loose translation of the word, if we are to go by your nonsense attempt we can also say born of an ancestors as well, any body can play this nonsense games. . .The bible is clear, and as long as the bible is concerned their genealogies are different. . .I go with what is written in the bible not your nonsense apologetics that is neither here nor there. .




Here are the two very contradictory accounts, one says he appeared to his disciples first in Jerusalem and the other in another different city very far away over 150miles in Galilee. . .


Mat 28:5 And the angel answered and said unto the women, Fear not ye: for I know that ye seek Jesus, which was crucified.
Mat 28:6 He is not here: for he is risen, as he said. Come, see the place where the Lord lay.
Mat 28:7 And go quickly, and tell his disciples that he is risen from the dead; and, behold, he goeth before you into Galilee; there shall ye see him: lo, I have told you.
Mat 28:8 And they departed quickly from the sepulchre with fear and great joy; and did run to bring his disciples word.
Mat 28:9 And as they went to tell his disciples, behold, Jesus met them, saying, All hail. And they came and held him by the feet, and worshipped him.
Mat 28:10[b] Then said Jesus unto them, Be not afraid: go tell my brethren that they go into Galilee, and there shall they see me[/b].
Mat 28:11 Now when they were going, behold, some of the watch came into the city, and shewed unto the chief priests all the things that were done.
Mat 28:12 And when they were assembled with the elders, and had taken counsel, they gave large money unto the soldiers,
Mat 28:13 Saying, Say ye, His disciples came by night, and stole him [away] while we slept.
Mat 28:14 And if this come to the governor's ears, we will persuade him, and secure you.
Mat 28:15 So they took the money, and did as they were taught: and this saying is commonly reported among the Jews until this day.
Mat 28:16 Then the eleven disciples went away into Galilee, into a mountain where Jesus had appointed them.
Mat 28:17 And when they saw him, they worshipped him: but some doubted.
Mat 28:18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.

Here is Luke's version. . .

Luk 24 : 9 When they came back from the tomb, they told all these things to the Eleven and to all the others.
Luk 24:10 It was Mary Magdalene, Joanna, Mary the mother of James, and the others with them who told this to the apostles.
Luk 24:11 But they did not believe the women, because their words seemed to them like nonsense.
Luk 24:12 Peter, however, got up and ran to the tomb. Bending over, he saw the strips of linen lying by themselves, and he went away, wondering to himself what had happened.
Luk 24:13 Now that same day two of them were going to a village called Emmaus, about seven miles [fn] from Jerusalem.
Luk 24:14 They were talking with each other about everything that had happened.
Luk 24:15 As they talked and discussed these things with each other, Jesus himself came up and walked along with them;
Luk 24:16 but they were kept from recognizing him.
Luk 24:17 He asked them, "What are you discussing together as you walk along?" They stood still, their faces downcast.
Luk 24:18 One of them, named Cleopas, asked him, "Are you only a visitor to Jerusalem and do not know the things that have happened there in these days?"
Luk 24:19 "What things?" he asked. "About Jesus of Nazareth," they replied. "He was a prophet, powerful in word and deed before God and all the people.
Luk 24:20 The chief priests and our rulers handed him over to be sentenced to death, and they crucified him;
Luk 24:21 but we had hoped that he was the one who was going to redeem Israel. And what is more, it is the third day since all this took place.
Luk 24:22 In addition, some of our women amazed us. They went to the tomb early this morning
Luk 24:23 but didn't find his body. They came and told us that they had seen a vision of angels, who said he was alive.
Luk 24:24 Then some of our companions went to the tomb and found it just as the women had said, but him they did not see."
Luk 24:25 He said to them, "How foolish you are, and how slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken!
Luk 24:26 Did not the Christ [fn] have to suffer these things and then enter his glory?"
Luk 24:27 And beginning with Moses and all the Prophets, he explained to them what was said in all the Scriptures concerning himself.
Luk 24:28 As they approached the village to which they were going, Jesus acted as if he were going farther.
Luk 24:29[b] But they urged him strongly, "Stay with us, for it is nearly evening; the day is almost over." So he went in to stay with them[/b].
Luk 24:30 When he was at the table with them, he took bread, gave thanks, broke it and began to give it to them.
Luk 24:31 Then their eyes were opened and they recognized him, and he disappeared from their sight.
Luk 24:32 They asked each other, "Were not our hearts burning within us while he talked with us on the road and opened the Scriptures to us?"
Luk 24:33 They got up and returned at once to Jerusalem. There they found the Eleven and those with them, assembled together
Luk 24:34 and saying, "It is true! The Lord has risen and has appeared to Simon."
Luk 24:35 Then the two told what had happened on the way, and how Jesus was recognized by them when he broke the bread.
Luk 24:36 While they were still talking about this, Jesus himself stood among them and said to them, "Peace be with you."
Luk 24:37 They were startled and frightened, thinking they saw a ghost.
Luk 24:38 He said to them, "Why are you troubled, and why do doubts rise in your minds?
Luk 24:39 Look at my hands and my feet. It is I myself! Touch me and see; a ghost does not have flesh and bones, as you see I have."
Luk 24:40 When he had said this, he showed them his hands and feet.
Luk 24:41 And while they still did not believe it because of joy and amazement, he asked them, "Do you have anything here to eat?"
Luk 24:42 They gave him a piece of broiled fish,
Luk 24:43 and he took it and ate it in their presence.

The two very different accounts are very clear and they both happened the same day Jesus was written to have resurrected from the dead. . .



Now you are here with your speculations again. . .The gospels we have with us were NOT written by people who knew Jesus or had ever meet him, they were written long after Jesus died, in a language neither he nor his disciples spoke . . .The unknown authors never said they ever witnessed any of the events the wrote about. They just wrote their stories. . .

Delafruita:
your analogy is totally and utterly ridiculous.first,a prophecy about the fall of jerusalem isnt considered a prophecy till it pinpoints specific events.ofcourse a city will fall when an army encamps it especially when it was hitherto a tribute paying city without a standing army.
secondly,you dont know how old the disciples were as at the time jesus began his ministry so you analogy but assuming they were his age range,that would put them at about 80years old at the fall of jerusalem to the romans.
which josephus led the revolt against the romans?certainly not josephus flavius.
one thing that makes your entire argument ridiculous is the claim that the disciples were matryed.if indeed they were matyred,it means they were long dead before the siege of jerusalem of 70AD.so which one is,were they matyred or the escaped from jerusalem?

truthislight:

Guy, i think ur ranting has been on for two long..

Couple with the fact that it is either u are a very bad liar or u completely dont know what u are saying.

2 things,
1. U quoted me as saying that the disciples are martyr in my post, please, me from my post up there where show us where i said so? U most be confuse.

2. U said that Josephus i mention is not Josephus Flavius.
Sorry dude.
His name is Flavius Josephus Ben matthias or Matityahu a Jew.
He was a military commander in the Jewish revolt against the Romans. He leaved 37ad to 100ad.

You see how much lack of facts u have.
U thrive on nothingness really..

I should be helping u on other things but not this sort of debate.
Am really trying to hold my dislike for u and ur deceit. But i think if u change it will benefit those who know u.

I also sympastise with those who take u seriousely in this nairaland forum.

Sorry.
U really need it.
No peace.

Delafruita:
if the stories of paul's conversion dont tally,(at least you admit there are issues of "minor detaills"that puts his entire message into jeopardy.
he claims to have been persecuting christians in jerusalem,however we can see that none of the disciples was arrested at anytime during paul's acclaimed persecution.they even preached in the temples.who then was paul persecuting?did he at anytime even persecute christians in jerusalem?
we can see that paul was indeed arrested and immediately proclaimed his roman citizenship because he knew it would grant him protection.he was never locked in cell rather he was placed under house arrest and had guards statiioned at his door.

Delafruita:
your analogy is totally and utterly ridiculous.first,a prophecy about the fall of jerusalem isnt considered a prophecy till it pinpoints specific events.ofcourse a city will fall when an army encamps it especially when it was hitherto a tribute paying city without a standing army.
secondly,you dont know how old the disciples were as at the time jesus began his ministry so you analogy but assuming they were his age range,that would put them at about 80years old at the fall of jerusalem to the romans.
which josephus led the revolt against the romans?certainly not josephus flavius.
one thing that makes your entire argument ridiculous is the claim that the disciples were matryed.if indeed they were matyred,it means they were long dead before the siege of jerusalem of 70AD.so which one is,were they matyred or the escaped from jerusalem?

Delafruita:
your analogy is totally and utterly ridiculous.first,a prophecy about the fall of jerusalem isnt considered a prophecy till it pinpoints specific events.ofcourse a city will fall when an army encamps it especially when it was hitherto a tribute paying city without a standing army.
secondly,you dont know how old the disciples were as at the time jesus began his ministry so you analogy but assuming they were his age range,that would put them at about 80years old at the fall of jerusalem to the romans.
which josephus led the revolt against the romans?certainly not josephus flavius.
one thing that makes your entire argument ridiculous is the claim that the disciples were matryed.if indeed they were matyred,it means they were long dead before the siege of jerusalem of 70AD.so which one is,were they matyred or the escaped from jerusalem?

Mr_Anony:

If by a minute detail in the story of Paul's conversion - which by the way has no bearing on the christian faith - you decided to falsify the bible, it shows you never had faith in the bible in the first place and all you were seeking and are still seeking is loopholes.
I won't even go further to address the fallacies in your last post of how you assume that Paul must arrest the disciples to prove he was a persecutor amongst other things.

You are arguing from the bias that the bible is false and nothing I am going to say will change the tint of your anti-bible glasses.

Delafruita:
lol@ anti-bible glasses.how bout ur anti-reality glasses

truthislight:

guy, ur deceit in this forum has gone on for too long.

It is either u are a very bad liar or u are very very confuse.

For this two reasons:

1. U quoted me in ur post above that i said that christ disciples are martyr as such they would not be around.
Pls, do show us where i made such statement in that post? Are u confuse?

2. U said that the Josephus i quoted is certainly not flavius......
Dude.
His names are Josephus Flavius Ben Matthius or matityhu, a Jew and a former Jewish commander in the Jewish revolt against the Romans, turn historian.

See how much lack of knowledge u have?

And u where so excited posting all over this forum pressuming we are Just as ignorant.

PLEASE do change, it will definitely make u more usefull to those that do know u outside this forum, And will benefit ur person.

And for those following u blindly and accepting all u do say that are wrong, i just wonder.
I also sympathies with them.

It is said that if a blind man does leads a blind man they will end up in a pit.

My sympathy.
U sure do need it.
Peace

mazaje:

Nope, not one surviving, because there are many other documents from that time that survived and recorded all the major events that happened, most of what we know about First century Palestine we know from Josephus and other historians that lived at that time who wrote detailed events of what happened. . .Extra ordinary claims require extra ordinary evidence, you can make extra ordinary claims that happened in history and provide religious document that disagree with some historical events as their evidence. . .



No clear cut Miracle has EVER been shown to happen, if the bible is true then you should be able to perform clear cut miracles yourself after all Jesus PROMISED those of you that believe in him to have the ability to do GREATER things than he did if ONLY you believe, if you believe in Jesus and his PROMISE then you should be able to perform clear cut miracles like healing amputees and restoring their amputated limbs back or raising people that have already been buried from the dead, Jesus we are told in the story book did them and PROMISED his followers and all those that believed in his the ability to go GREATER things, the fact that no one can do clear cut miracles in his name says miracles are nothing buy lies. . NO clear cut miracle has ever been demonstrated any where, if you believe in Jesus then you should be able to do those things yopur self as he PROMISED. . .



You don't want to delve into genealogy because you know you have NO feet to stand on there. . .Both were reporting their made up tales with different account and genealogies, you attempted the one was his father and the other was his mother nonsenses when you saw that it didnt fly the new explanation is "it can be loosely translated". . .I just dislike dishonesty and that is what christian apologist fo all the time, it can be loosely translated to mean ancestor and not father, in the context it means father and as such some bible translations used the word father, unless if you are trying to lie to me that you know greek and how it should be applied more than those that translated the bible into english because father is what the wrote not your loosely translated ancestor nonsense and fraudulent attempt to explain away the obvious contradiction. . . Where you the one that wrote the book of Luke? why should any body pay attention to your dubious loose translation of the word, if we are to go by your nonsense attempt we can also say born of an ancestors as well, any body can play this nonsense games. . .The bible is clear, and as long as the bible is concerned their genealogies are different. . .I go with what is written in the bible not your nonsense apologetics that is neither here nor there. .




Here are the two very contradictory accounts, one says he appeared to his disciples first in Jerusalem and the other in another different city very far away over 150miles in Galilee. . .


Mat 28:5 And the angel answered and said unto the women, Fear not ye: for I know that ye seek Jesus, which was crucified.
Mat 28:6 He is not here: for he is risen, as he said. Come, see the place where the Lord lay.
Mat 28:7 And go quickly, and tell his disciples that he is risen from the dead; and, behold, he goeth before you into Galilee; there shall ye see him: lo, I have told you.
Mat 28:8 And they departed quickly from the sepulchre with fear and great joy; and did run to bring his disciples word.
Mat 28:9 And as they went to tell his disciples, behold, Jesus met them, saying, All hail. And they came and held him by the feet, and worshipped him.
Mat 28:10[b] Then said Jesus unto them, Be not afraid: go tell my brethren that they go into Galilee, and there shall they see me[/b].
Mat 28:11 Now when they were going, behold, some of the watch came into the city, and shewed unto the chief priests all the things that were done.
Mat 28:12 And when they were assembled with the elders, and had taken counsel, they gave large money unto the soldiers,
Mat 28:13 Saying, Say ye, His disciples came by night, and stole him [away] while we slept.
Mat 28:14 And if this come to the governor's ears, we will persuade him, and secure you.
Mat 28:15 So they took the money, and did as they were taught: and this saying is commonly reported among the Jews until this day.
Mat 28:16 Then the eleven disciples went away into Galilee, into a mountain where Jesus had appointed them.
Mat 28:17 And when they saw him, they worshipped him: but some doubted.
Mat 28:18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.

Here is Luke's version. . .

Luk 24 : 9 When they came back from the tomb, they told all these things to the Eleven and to all the others.
Luk 24:10 It was Mary Magdalene, Joanna, Mary the mother of James, and the others with them who told this to the apostles.
Luk 24:11 But they did not believe the women, because their words seemed to them like nonsense.
Luk 24:12 Peter, however, got up and ran to the tomb. Bending over, he saw the strips of linen lying by themselves, and he went away, wondering to himself what had happened.
Luk 24:13 Now that same day two of them were going to a village called Emmaus, about seven miles [fn] from Jerusalem.
Luk 24:14 They were talking with each other about everything that had happened.
Luk 24:15 As they talked and discussed these things with each other, Jesus himself came up and walked along with them;
Luk 24:16 but they were kept from recognizing him.
Luk 24:17 He asked them, "What are you discussing together as you walk along?" They stood still, their faces downcast.
Luk 24:18 One of them, named Cleopas, asked him, "Are you only a visitor to Jerusalem and do not know the things that have happened there in these days?"
Luk 24:19 "What things?" he asked. "About Jesus of Nazareth," they replied. "He was a prophet, powerful in word and deed before God and all the people.
Luk 24:20 The chief priests and our rulers handed him over to be sentenced to death, and they crucified him;
Luk 24:21 but we had hoped that he was the one who was going to redeem Israel. And what is more, it is the third day since all this took place.
Luk 24:22 In addition, some of our women amazed us. They went to the tomb early this morning
Luk 24:23 but didn't find his body. They came and told us that they had seen a vision of angels, who said he was alive.
Luk 24:24 Then some of our companions went to the tomb and found it just as the women had said, but him they did not see."
Luk 24:25 He said to them, "How foolish you are, and how slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken!
Luk 24:26 Did not the Christ [fn] have to suffer these things and then enter his glory?"
Luk 24:27 And beginning with Moses and all the Prophets, he explained to them what was said in all the Scriptures concerning himself.
Luk 24:28 As they approached the village to which they were going, Jesus acted as if he were going farther.
Luk 24:29[b] But they urged him strongly, "Stay with us, for it is nearly evening; the day is almost over." So he went in to stay with them[/b].
Luk 24:30 When he was at the table with them, he took bread, gave thanks, broke it and began to give it to them.
Luk 24:31 Then their eyes were opened and they recognized him, and he disappeared from their sight.
Luk 24:32 They asked each other, "Were not our hearts burning within us while he talked with us on the road and opened the Scriptures to us?"
Luk 24:33 They got up and returned at once to Jerusalem. There they found the Eleven and those with them, assembled together
Luk 24:34 and saying, "It is true! The Lord has risen and has appeared to Simon."
Luk 24:35 Then the two told what had happened on the way, and how Jesus was recognized by them when he broke the bread.
Luk 24:36 While they were still talking about this, Jesus himself stood among them and said to them, "Peace be with you."
Luk 24:37 They were startled and frightened, thinking they saw a ghost.
Luk 24:38 He said to them, "Why are you troubled, and why do doubts rise in your minds?
Luk 24:39 Look at my hands and my feet. It is I myself! Touch me and see; a ghost does not have flesh and bones, as you see I have."
Luk 24:40 When he had said this, he showed them his hands and feet.
Luk 24:41 And while they still did not believe it because of joy and amazement, he asked them, "Do you have anything here to eat?"
Luk 24:42 They gave him a piece of broiled fish,
Luk 24:43 and he took it and ate it in their presence.

The two very different accounts are very clear and they both happened the same day Jesus was written to have resurrected from the dead. . .



Now you are here with your speculations again. . .The gospels we have with us were NOT written by people who knew Jesus or had ever meet him, they were written long after Jesus died, in a language neither he nor his disciples spoke . . .The unknown authors never said they ever witnessed any of the events the wrote about. They just wrote their stories. . .

Mr_Anony:

@Mazaje, I will give you a reply albeit a long one.
But just so you know ahead of time, your post is ridden with a few fallacies, some errors and assumptions and you even contradict yourself somewhere along the line. I had to read your post carefully to spot some things especially the parts you didn't put in bold. I'll explain later, I don't have the energy for a long post right now.

Delafruita:
i dont know why this same keeps popping.i think i responded to it about 40mins ago.however reading it again,i realise my response was inadequate.i stuck with correcting your impression of josephus flavius.first,i will not be drawn into an argument about a fact that is veriafiable with a simple google search.nobody is a paragon of knowledge,i certainly am not which is why i sometimes refer to google to confirm some facts.you should do same instead of ranting like a ...............

Delafruita:

i dont dwelll much on inconsistencies of the old testament because the old testament doesnt have the "divine jesus" attached to it.the old testament is what it is,a book of history of the jewish people albeit from a more religious point of view.the old testament makes for good reading and sometimes you could get a good laugh from the expressions.
you say allah promised to protect the book himself,was he there when the quran was been compiled?muhammad was an illiterate who couldnt read or write and he is the only witness to his receiving the quran from jibril.he claims the first verse he received was "read in the name of thy god who created thee" and we are just supposed to accept that he didnt stumble on these words after a hot meal and a wonderful bedtime with khadijah.
in muhammad's entire lifetime,there was no quran.he usually dictated his revelation to his companions who wrote it then read it back to him to ensure there were no mistakes.
the compilation was begun by abu bakr and was completed by uthman.the quran you read today is the uthman codex.there are about 6 other codexes though their differences are not too much but there are differences

kiu_usm:

I thought you’re a rational human being regrettably you’re not. We are not here to insult any personality or religion but to understand ourselves and reasons together like human being .
Pls read the Bible, Mathew 5:19-20 "Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven; but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven."
"For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven."
[The Bible, Mathew 5:17-20]
The above verse clearly stated that if you break one commandment including the Old Testament u’re not going to enter heaven therefore u have to believe everything in the bible if u’re a true Christian
Now let pint out some contradiction in the New Testament. Read: the following and compare it yourself

John 5:37
ye have never heard his (God’s) voice at any time, nor seen his shape
or
John 14:9
…he that hath seen me hath seen the father.

John 5:31
If I bear witness of myself, my witness is not true
or
John 8:14
Jesus answered and said unto them though I bear record of myself yet my record is true

I can give you more on your request.

Coming back to Holy Qur’an just as you said “.he usually dictated his revelation to his companions who wrote it then read it back to him to ensure there were no mistakes” Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) received revelation from Angel Gabriel at that time they memorize, write it on stone, leaves, etc as of that time that’s what they had. It it’s the same text that we are still using unchanged and will never be anywhere you go in this world is the same Qur’an 114 surah (chapters and verses) and Its; Allah (GOD) that is protecting it from changes not like the bible where you have the Protestant Bible i.e. the King James Version, contains only 66 books as they consider 7 books of the Old Testament to be apocrypha, i.e. of doubtful authority. Some verses are deleted some are added (need example just ask)
The Holy Qur’an stated in cha 29:46 that:
And dispute ye not with the People of the Book, except with means better (than mere disputation), unless it be with those of them who inflict wrong (and injury): but say, "We believe in the revelation which has come down to us and in that which came down to you; Our Allah and your Allah is one; and it is to Him we bow (in Islam).
I’m not going to insult anybody simple because he is Christian but to pray to God to guid him/her to the straight path which is total submission of your will to God just as Jesus (pbuh) Did and said in John 5:30 “ I can of my own self do nothing as I hear I judge and my judgment is righteous for I seek not my will but the will of my father (my God) who sent me.
I hope you will read with an open mind.
If you have any question don’t hesitate pls.

truthislight:

Guy, i think ur ranting has been on for two long..

Couple with the fact that it is either u are a very bad liar or u completely dont know what u are saying.

2 things,
1. U quoted me as saying that the disciples are martyr in my post, please, me from my post up there where show us where i said so? U most be confuse.

2. U said that Josephus i mention is not Josephus Flavius.
Sorry dude.
His name is Flavius Josephus Ben matthias or Matityahu a Jew.
He was a military commander in the Jewish revolt against the Romans. He leaved 37ad to 100ad.

You see how much lack of facts u have.
U thrive on nothingness really..

I should be helping u on other things but not this sort of debate.
Am really trying to hold my dislike for u and ur deceit. But i think if u change it will benefit those who know u.

I also sympastise with those who take u seriousely in this nairaland forum.

Sorry.
U really need it.
No peace.