debosky:

so lets wait till we have light and all amenities before having educational standards.

mental laziness. Suspend all activity and improvements till its all perfect!

abeg Richy tell her, some people will wait forever to make improvements.

The truth is, majority of the lecturers, at least in the Federal Universities are qualified, the lazy ones who don't want to comply are the ones who will make all the noise.

almondjoy:

That is America!  They took their time to get things to that level.  They provided their lecturers with the best of the best to make sure they "grew" in their field.  They have light and water oh!  Research facilities and were compensated while they did all these.    In Nigeria what are you up against?  Yes, there are standards in America.  But it is not at gun point and the atmosphere is conducive for meeting such standards.  They do not make it stressful to accomplish those goals.


All these ones you guys are making noise here, who will feed these guys families while the lecturers are in some cave battling this Ph.D mess?  Is it that easy to live what you are doing and devote all your time to this rigorous studies without your wife or husband divorcing you for neglecting your home or being deficient in your financial responsiblities?  What are the incentives and what kinds of "grants" and "scholarships" are available to make this process as stress free as possible.

I have a cousin who has to do this Phd thing and has been seperated from her family for almost 2 years now.  She only sees them once or twice a year since she opted to do this PhD mess out of the country.  At the end is it really worth it?

almondjoy:

That is America! They took their time to get things to that level. They provided their lecturers with the best of the best to make sure they "grew" in their field. They have light and water oh! Research facilities and were compensated while they did all these. In Nigeria what are you up against? Yes, there are standards in America. But it is not at gun point and the atmosphere is conducive for meeting such standards. They do not make it stressful to accomplish those goals.

All these ones you guys are making noise here, who will feed these guys families while the lecturers are in some cave battling this Ph.D mess? Is it that easy to live what you are doing and devote all your time to this rigorous studies without your wife or husband divorcing you for neglecting your home or being deficient in your financial responsiblities? What are the incentives and what kinds of "grants" and "scholarships" are available to make this process as stress free as possible.

I have a cousin who has to do this Phd thing and has been seperated from her family for almost 2 years now. She only sees them once or twice a year since she opted to do this PhD mess out of the country. At the end is it really worth it?

Kobojunkie:


I also see that as a problem. We are trying to get to the same place the rest of the civilized world are now, in 2 minutes. The Law, like I said earlier has been in place for almost 20 years but during that same time, resources for those who decided to go the PhD route has been seriously limited.

debosky:

It is not simple, neither is it easy.

There is a statute that has been on the books since 1989, we do not need 100,000 professors if half of them do not meet the standard, lets keep the good and get rid of those not ready to comply.

THIS IS NOT A NEW DIRECTIVE! OVer 20 years and no compliance? How long do we keep waiting?

It should not be optional, because if you know anything about Nigerian Inertia, people do not act unless pushed, they consider the jobs like government jobs from which they cannot be sacked, they need to improve themselves or get kicked out. Let us know where we truly stand as to our educational manpower instead of having a bunch of unserious people masquerading as academics.

We might as well cancel all the other educational programs since you wonder what kind of PhD we are going to study. If you cannot afford to do it, GO and do something else. Universities are not Charities to cater to misfits

If you cannot count money, don't aspire to be a cashier simple! Meet the requirements for the job or LEAVE. I'm sure thats how it works where you are employed Almond, you are not allowed to just 'be wherever you want'

Resources limitation is not the issue, it has been a case of lowering of standards, we don't need people managing, or just getting by, meet the standard sor get out. If you are not ready to pay the price DO NOT GO INTO IT!

I repeat, this is a calling, even going to school for BSC is stress, so all these arguments are moot.

RichyBlacK:

You're focusing too much on the materialistic aspects. With change sometimes comes pain. It will be painful but we need standards.


In America, you don't seem to appreciate that universities were not always like it is today. The universities were initially sponsored by the various churches/denominations they were affiliated with. The government came in much later. Then, the attraction to the universities was not the facilities, but the need to engage in intellectual discourse and to find solutions to problems that defied half-hearted attempts at solving them.

The libraries developed gradually from contributions by individuals, gifts from the churches and from wealthy individuals. It was not the case that the government built all and then invited people to come in. So, Nigerians have to make sacrifices, contributions and show interest in our universities, if we want them to survive.

almondjoy:

That is exactly my problem.  They want to get things done but have not mechanism to help you achieve these things. Like the government will feed your families while you are in school for the next 3-5 years.  I am all for the lecturers improving the art of lecturing.  Research part of academics is optional.  There should be incentives to get you there not as a means of punishment.  How many can afford these programmes in Nigeria if I may ask?  Even if na beans?

And I say the "statute" is not feasible.  How many can afford this programme?  In 20 years most of these lecturers' standards of living have diminished considerably. Most do not even own cars and are still renting homes. 20 years ago would have been more condusive to accquiring this kind of mess. Now in 2008?  When things have gotten considerably worse? Please get real for once!

You are joking right? Don't you have IBB, Dangote and Adeboye in Nigeria?  What stopped them from contributing over the past 20 years to make sure Nigeria is catching up with the rest of the world?  Please don't even go there!

debosky:

your argument is moot Almond

Some of these 'suffering lecturers' have PhD's why should their compatriots not get the same qualification and earn the same pay?

You are allowed to disagree with the statute, so are the lecturers. If you don't agree with the contract of employment, LEAVE!!

IT IS NOT BY FORCE! I am being very real my dear, anyone who bothered to get into academics must seriously pursue the right qualifications, even people working low level jobs sacrifice to go to night school, do certification exams and all to get ahead in their professions, but the lecturers supposed to train our future generations should be allowed to just get by and manage?

I reject that notion in its entirety!

No one is saying this is a cakewalk, but it is a NECESSARY change.

Speaking of the Adeboye's, they are building their institutions, Bowen University, Ajayi Crowther Uni, Covenant Uni, and a host of others who will be in the forefront in the coming future.

Standards need to be enforced. Their salaries have gone up more than 300% since Obj came in, things have improved somewhat in that area, it is only fair that the lecturers sit up and begin to improve as well. Things may not be perfect for the lecturers, but they aren't for the rest of the country or for individuals struggling to improve themselves, Let everyone strive.

If you do not meet the set criteria QUIT

debosky:

your argument is moot Almond

Some of these 'suffering lecturers' have PhD's why should their compatriots not get the same qualification and earn the same pay?

You are allowed to disagree with the statute, so are the lecturers. If you don't agree with the contract of employment, LEAVE!!

IT IS NOT BY FORCE! I am being very real my dear, anyone who bothered to get into academics must seriously pursue the right qualifications, even people working low level jobs sacrifice to go to night school, do certification exams and all to get ahead in their professions, but the lecturers supposed to train our future generations should be allowed to just get by and manage?

I reject that notion in its entirety!

No one is saying this is a cakewalk, but it is a NECESSARY change.

Speaking of the Adeboye's, they are building their institutions, Bowen University, Ajayi Crowther Uni, Covenant Uni, and a host of others who will be in the forefront in the coming future.

Standards need to be enforced. Their salaries have gone up more than 300% since Obj came in, things have improved somewhat in that area, it is only fair that the lecturers sit up and begin to improve as well. Things may not be perfect for the lecturers, but they aren't for the rest of the country or for individuals struggling to improve themselves, Let everyone strive.

If you do not meet the set criteria QUIT

~Lady~:

"I am sorry if you feel I am selling Nigeria short but I can not deny what I lived first hand and have experienced over and over now. Yes, I did school in Nigeria and yes, many of the graduates fall short. Infact, I will go a step further and say that private high school students here are taught most the same things an undergraduate in Nigeria is spending time on. Case and Point a friend of mine who happened to be top of her class in one of the medical schools in Nigeria. On arriving here found it hard to catch up for to pass her USMLE. Why ?? The Teaching she got from medical school down there did not prepare her for the exam. I have cousins who instead of being taught how to use a computer are still dealing with DRAWING a computer, in primary 5.

Now if your claim is half true, are you going to then tell me that the reason more and more students go abroad to get an education is because they have thousands of dollars/pounds to waste??"



Like I said I do work for the department of education and I do deal with the university sector and trust me it's no comparison.

Am sorry that your friend wasn't able to catch up easily, it may be that she did not prepare herself, yes u are given an education, however, if u do not study hard and take advantage of an education, it is your fault (this is in no way to insult your friend, just stating a fact)

I also schooled in Nigeria and so did my friends, upon arrival we found the school system boring, it wasn't challenging enough, I also encounter many Africans not just Nigerians who are bored with the system because they've encountered many of the lectures before.

And no people don't travel abroad to waste money on education, they travel because they THINK abroad has better education, and then when they get here, they see that the grass isn't greener on the other side.

debosky:

stop talking in ignorance Almond, it doesn't suit you

MOST lecturers in Nigerian Universities (Federal ones at least) have PhD's and you cannot simply 'check out' with a PhD, you need to publish papers and achieve a lot, as well as teaching experiences . N/A departments are full to the brim with aspiring PhD's so they have more than adequate supplies. If you learned all you have in the 'ditch of an environment' then I'm sure it wont rob you of anything, rather you use what you've learned to make a difference.

Most [/i]PhD's in Nigeria remain in Nigeria madam Almond, they are committed enough to the system that they remain in it due to their passion and drive. Some leave, but that will always happen. If the non-PhD's are converted, then even if some leave, we will still be left with a pool of PhD professors, even if few.

This is education darling, quality is much preferred over quantity.

If it is one university of quality we have, let us know now and stop fooling around with Bsc holders masquerading as lecturers.

The drive for improvement at all levels must begin now, we must simply ensure we hold the government to a higher funding status for the institutions in [i]consonance with these drives,NOT as a prerequisite

@ I-man a short term drop in exchange for long term improvements. . .take your pick

would you endure not being able to drive your car for a month on your street so it can be fixed or will you insist on driving your car till it breaks down on the pot holed street? The choice is yours

I-man:

One of the criteria for measuring the quality of education is the lecturer to students ratio.Ideally,it should be around 20 students to one lecturer.In Nigeria,we often have about 300 students to 1 lecturer.

If all the lecturers who can't complete their PHD within the next 1 and half-years(is their a 1 and half-year PHD programme?) were to leave,the students to lecturers ratio will even go higher to more absurd levels.In effect,we lower the standards of education in a foolhardy bid to lift it.

Nigeria and Nigerians are notorious for their allergy to pragmatism.The stupidity of this policy is glaring for all to see.

Kobojunkie:


I do not believe she is arguing for a scraping of the plan. You misunderstand her stand in this. You and I know that over the past 20 or so years in Nigeria, people have had to struggle to pay for their education, let alone pay for a PhD degree.
I personally have an aunt who, after over 10 years obtained her PhD degree even though she died only a month afterwards. She had to depend on her husband for over 70% of what she needed for transportation and living in the school during the weeks.

I mean you posted earlier of stipends available to person who are interested in earning a PhD degree in Nigeria, yet there have been more people who have had to struggle through the program with barely any help from the government during that 20 year period. Some people with great interest in the degree have had to scrap their dreams due to the state of things during that period. You mention obasanjo increasing pay 300% for the lecturers during his time.

My question is when was this actually put in place?? and then when did the lecturers actually start receiving the increase?? I can go on and on with questions I have on this law which is supposedly to expire in 2009 but it remains that if the NUC has not provided detailed information on how they propose to go about this change if by that date their are not enough PhDs in the country.

Example,   MAJORITY OF THE STAFF IN THE CHEMICAL ENGINEERING DEPARTMENT ARE NOT PHDS http://www.futy.edu.ng/academic/dchmeng.htm  FEDERAL UNIVERSITY OF TECHNOLOGY YOLA


2) FEDERAL UNIVERSITY OF TECHNOLOGY AKURE , http://www.futa.edu.ng/VCs_Office.htm

debosky:

@ I-man a short term drop in exchange for long term improvements. . .take your pick

would you endure not being able to drive your car for a month on your street so it can be fixed or will you insist on driving your car till it breaks down on the pot holed street? The choice is yours

[/quote]From iykrion
@Kobojunkie,
You seem to infer that the more one studies for higher degrees, the less oppurtunities available. Or better put, the less salary he/she gets.

From all you have written, it's clear that you don't even merit a First Degree . Infact, in your own world, a Diploma holder earns more than a Professor in the same field.

Why did you bother to go for the Master's degree -which I doubt- you have? I suggest you follow Revive's advice, so that, at least you may be revived.

From Geniall

There are also cases where people with MScs, MBAs and whatever else, as well as people with no academic degrees whatsoever, have been seen driving cabs. So what exactly is your point?

From dot2002
How would a master holder earn more than a more technically proficient PhD holder? it beats me, where is the common logical sense in your discussion junkie? [quote]

Lol Thank you oo.
May be employers -the executive directors , board of directors (and advisory board) of an industry/company who are themselves PhD holders will employ a masters degree holder and pay this masters holder more than what they themselves (the employers) get.

Hey oya! masters holders in Bio-pharmaceutical industries, oil companies, engineering construction/production companies, Chemical industries, Molecular/biotechnology industries etc mobilize yourselves and campaign against your bosses that you should be getting more pay compared to those your bosses with PhD because u have been going through rigorous industrial experience from one caompany to the other all your life. And don’t forget to quote this forum as your source of information that a Masters holder gets paid more than a PhD holder in the same field and same work area.

Oya! Oya! hurry up!

[/quote]From debosky
PS if you want to talk about 'devotion to research and becoming world experts' please name one Nobel Prize winner (apart from literature and peace) who does NOT have a PhD.

from RichyBlacK

Excellen  question!!!

Let us see the ratio in this set of PhDs to non-PhDs.

From RichyBlacK

Stop to misyarn!

What is the ratio of PhDs to non-PhDs in the set of all those who have won Nobel Prizes in Economics?

From RichyBlacK
Among professors, across the globe, only a small fraction, are not PhDs. So, what's wrong if Nigeria puts in place a policy inline with what obtains in the rest of the world?[quote]

almondjoy:



People like Debosky is the main reason why people should not have PhDs in their 20s--they become insensitive to the realities of what real adults have to face while struggling to make ends meet.

@debosky
Tell a lecturer with a wife and 4 children to leave his classroom to go and study for 3-5 years on an empty stomach and be prepared to tell NUC to devise a better programme to achieve these goals. It lacks sensitivity, feasiblity, vision or purpose!

vowiski:

how can somebody complete his PH.d within 2 years.

Did you have a look at this link? (in the 1st post {poster's post}) 

Akolawole:

, , there is wind of change blowing in our education sector.

There is a "promise" of building research centres et all in those chosen Universities.

Lets hope for the best.