cybersleek:

Hi folks, nice to see us brainstorming over this issue. Personally, i think in other for anybody to be a full lecturer in a Nigerian uni, you must have a doctorate degree, but what i disagree with is the mode the NUC is adopting to push this through. Another thing, most people who know the history of higher education in Nigeria will readily tell you that many of the retired Professors in the first generation universities became professors without a doctorate. So its really not an issue of a Phd but that of a lack of standards in every facet of life in Nigeria. Then someone mentioned something about Nigerian academics not being as good as their counterparts overseas, and i beg to differ, most Nigerian academics suffer from a lack of exposure which their foreign counterpart enjoy as a matter of routine, there are better facilities, avenue for research, grants and so many opportunities you can only dream of in Nigeria. Universities in the UK and elsewhere do all within their powers to attract the best academic minds in the world, because they know that the better the ranking they get, the more students they attract from all over the world and hence, the more money available to them. If you will agree with me, over the past few years, it has become very fashionable for Nigerian students to study overseas at a premium, why? because the quality of academic experience you will get is such that you can never hope to get in Nigeria. Go to all the Nigerian Universities put together and count the number of lecturers they have from outside Africa, and you will be shocked to learn that the might not be up to 150 in number. Therefore, the vibrancy of research, and transfer of knowledge is totally absent.

Finally, i do not believe that the quality of students from Nigeria are any worse that those in the UK or elsewhere, its just a matter of standards and the fact that university education is not an all comers affair, if we are to be honest with ourselves, there are many undergraduates in Nigeria who would have been more contented and even fare better selling spare parts at aspamda or even lace in balogun market than getting a degree that is not worth more than the paper it is written on, but this only goes to show you that Nigerians would rather take things on the surface value than the substance. As the saying goes" you get what you deserve", the way forward is for us to restructure our system in such a way that whether you have a degree or not, you will be able to have a quality of life which is decent enough without necessarily needing to do what you are not cut out to do.

Lastly, black cab drivers in the UK do earn about 60 to 80 grand a per annum, but they do have to go througha rigorous 4 yr apprenticeship which is akin to going to university for cabbies!

Akolawole:


1) PHD holders cabbing in UK! Cab Drivers earning more than Medical doctors? I disagree with you completely. Do You know how much Cab Driver pay weekly to their controller in the office?

I knew about Cab business in UK, its not like that at all.

Most of them make additional money by claiming Job seekers allowance while doing cabbing.

2) I am speechless in this o. An average 4 bed house in Bromley is £300k. Na wa o.

deor03:

@mr blueband

do you know also that "escorts" or better still "ashawo " earn about £200/hour in the UK. You can consider your girlfriend trying it.
Rubbish , so because of money you want to drop your degree and become a taxi driver

We are too pre-occupied with titles(my son is a doctor,I am an Engineer,I am an Accountant) in Nigeria.In the west,no one cares what you do for a living,as long as it is legal.With the dearth of plumbers,many city workers are retraining and becoming plumbers to make a killing.Call a plumber at night and you will understand why professionals in the UK are retraining to become a plumber.Escorts(Ashewos) -that is a moral issue.I can't do that.And it is totally different from cabbing my friend.Until we drop the mentality of paper qualification over technical know how we will never move forward as nation.I heard on this forum that tony elumelu made a third class.Yet he runs one of Nigeria's biggest banks.In the Western world,Universities will be jumping over themselves to get him to lecture their MBA students.And ofcourse he will be paid handsomely,third class or no third class.

Don't get me wrong,I enjoy being a doctor,but if you are looking for the money then believe me jobs like cabbing and plumbing will give you more money when you figure in the time and hard work it takes to become a Consultant in Medicine.

deor03:

@blue band
The real problem is most nigerian are pre-occupied with the MONEY issue. I am an engineer and it is a profession i have always dreamt of. I am not one of the best paid engineers , but i love what i do. I can only hope earn more but my first love is what i do. Don't forget that a taxi cab driver will always be a taxi cab driver. As a professional you climb up the ladder in life

debosky:

I agree with the policy whole heartedly, you need to complete your PhD before getting a full lecturer position.

I-man's assertion on business/commercial courses is not in question, people with acumen and real-world experience can be utilised as knowledge pools to boost what is available in house. . .But they can only offer what they have experienced personally, there is a whole other world of opinion and experience out there that can only be tapped through detailed and focused study/research. Adjunct faculty positions can be created to cater for this niche.

A given number of years (above 10 preferably) experience in the field achieving extraordinary results may be useful as a measure acceptable in lieu of a PhD

In terms of the wider university faculty, the PhD requirement should be upheld, the rules having been on the books for 20 years should have given anyone serious enough about teaching and research to pursue his PhD and complete it.

If you see teaching merely as a pay ticket, then you are definitely in the wrong profession, in addition we need Research people! Even if it isn't 'high quality' at the onset, things will improve and get better over time. If you still pamper Bachelors or Masters degree holders by allowing them to hold lectureship positions because of 'not losing 70% of teaching staff' then I believe the staff should be lost so we know where we truly are - if 70% of staff do not have PhD's then you might as well call it a secondary school or A'level college and not a university.

[b][b]Apart from some mushroom universities and some others in the North (who are producing half baked grads anyways) [/b][/b] I'm sure most of the Federal Uni's have a good quantum of PhD's and a large group pursuing theirs as well. . .this deadline will serve as a push to complete those degrees and get some research published. You'll in all likelihoodnot spend 6/7 years on detailed study of a subject without developing expertise and transferable knowledge.

There are wider problems with the Nigerian educational system no doubt, but this particular policy is well in line with the plans to re-establish basic standards for holding educational/mentorship positions in Nigerian universities which will improve the quality of products down the line.

blueband:

There is a difference between mini cab drivers and black cab drivers.Mini cab drivers don't make money as they have to pay all sorts and a lot are usually illegal anyway.But black cab drivers who actually own the cabs earn more than the average medical doctor in the UK.The doctors who earn in excess of £100k/PA are General practitioners.As for Consultants the pay is between £72k-161K/Per Annumn.Registrars earn between £40k-72K/Per Annumn and House Officers can earn as little as £25k/Per annumn depending on the hospital.These are rough estimates.See link below

http://www.nhscareers.nhs.uk/details/Default.aspx?Id=553

But the consultants/GPs make up less than 25% of the total doctor population in the UK.The rest are Registrars and Staff Grades who earn around £40-55K/Per Annumn.Mind you it takes 6 years to become a doctor and another 6-10 years to become a Consultant depending on your area of specialisation.

Now come to the black cabs.The rate now is £3.00 for the first mile and subsequent miles are charged at £1.30.That is if you are moving freely.So a distance from Ojuelegba to LUTh which is about 2 miles will cost you about £4.30 if there is no go slow.And it is less than 5 minutes.And these drivers are classified as self employed,meaning it is what they declare that they are taxed on.So if you earn £300/day and you say you made only £70 in that day you will be taxed at the lower rate between 10%-22%.Now a doctor earning £55,000/Annumn gets taxed 40%.So tell me who earns more?
We are too pre-occupied with titles(my son is a doctor,I am an Engineer,I am an Accountant) in Nigeria.In the west,no one cares what you do for a living,as long as it is legal.With the dearth of plumbers,many city workers are retraining and becoming plumbers to make a killing.Call a plumber at night and you will understand why professionals in the UK are retraining to become a plumber.Escorts(Ashewos) -that is a moral issue.I can't do that.And it is totally different from cabbing my friend.Until we drop the mentality of paper qualification over technical know how we will never move forward as nation.I heard on this forum that tony elumelu made a third class.Yet he runs one of Nigeria's biggest banks.In the Western world,Universities will be jumping over themselves to get him to lecture their MBA students.And ofcourse he will be paid handsomely,third class or no third class.

Don't get me wrong,I enjoy being a doctor,but if you are looking for the money then believe me jobs like cabbing and plumbing will give you more money when you figure in the time and hard work it takes to become a Consultant in Medicine.

Kobojunkie:

Have you considered moving to a new country?? Or better still Nigeria?? By the way, How much do Nigerian doctors make I doubt PhDs are in the high earning brackets in any country. At least not here. I remember I opted for a masters rather than a PhD cause of the pay. But maybe all you need to do is look around. Over here, doctors make over 300k a year and this is just for starting doctors in some fields.

blueband:

ABU,UNIJOS,BAYERO UNI,UTHMAN DAN FODIO UNI,UAM MAKURDI,UNI-ILORIN,FUT YOLA,FUT MINNA,BSU MAKURDI,UNIMAID-Tell me which of these northern universities produce half baked graduates.I graduated from a southern university and I compare favourably well to my colleagues who graduated from northern university.

blueband:

Maybe I am not an average UK doctor .

I worked in Nigeria before moving over.300k a month?I left friends in nigeria who are consultants now and they are not earning 300k a month in nigeria.Infact one of them moved over to England 2 months ago to work as a Locum SHO.

My brother,money no dey medicine for nigeria.If you are toasting a babe in nigeria and you tell her you are a doctor na "eya" she go tell you.

I have no plans fo moving to another country.From here I am coming back home to invest all my savings and also take advantage of the credit facilities here.

I don tire to dey read book.Have been reading since I was 16 when I first got into medical school.If you see me now you will think I am 70 years.Bald and wrinkled fore head.Book don tire me!

Sorry,thought you were talking of Nigeria.Yes my friends who went to America are killing it.You are right.in America doctors earn more.But not the 300k you are talking for starters.After residency they get like 150k/PA.Which is what you can get here in the UK.But they have more purchasing power than we do.

Kobojunkie:

I remember I[b] opted for a masters rather than a PhD cause of the pay[/b].

debosky:

I agree with the policy whole heartedly, you need to complete your PhD before getting a full lecturer position.

I-man's assertion on business/commercial courses is not in question, people with acumen and real-world experience can be utilised as knowledge pools to boost what is available in house. . .But they can only offer what they have experienced personally, there is a whole other world of opinion and experience out there that can only be tapped through detailed and focused study/research. Adjunct faculty positions can be created to cater for this niche.

A given number of years (above 10 preferably) experience in the field achieving extraordinary results may be useful as a measure acceptable in lieu of a PhD

In terms of the wider university faculty, the PhD requirement should be upheld, the rules having been on the books for 20 years should have given anyone serious enough about teaching and research to pursue his PhD and complete it.

If you see teaching merely as a pay ticket, then you are definitely in the wrong profession, in addition we need Research people! Even if it isn't 'high quality' at the onset, things will improve and get better over time. If you still pamper Bachelors or Masters degree holders by allowing them to hold lectureship positions because of 'not losing 70% of teaching staff' then I believe the staff should be lost so we know where we truly are - if 70% of staff do not have PhD's then you might as well call it a secondary school or A'level college and not a university.

Apart from some mushroom universities and some others in the North (who are producing half baked grads anyways) I'm sure most of the Federal Uni's have a good quantum of PhD's and a large group pursuing theirs as well. . .this deadline will serve as a push to complete those degrees and get some research published. You'll in all likelihoodnot spend 6/7 years on detailed study of a subject without developing expertise and transferable knowledge.

There are wider problems with the Nigerian educational system no doubt, but this particular policy is well in line with the plans to re-establish basic standards for holding educational/mentorship positions in Nigerian universities which will improve the quality of products down the line.

Revive:

Could you clarify yourself?

Are you saying that in exactly the same field of study (e.g same scientific field of study), a Masters Degree holder gets more pay than a PhD holder? hmmmmm

And are you also saying that assuming you “opted” for PhD, you could have done PhD without Masters? hmmmmm

almondjoy:

Eyaaaaaaaaa! Abeg come join me for New York. I get plenty taxi to lease out till you own your own.

Your profile says you are 30 years old. You started medical school at 16? Brilliant!

Hmmmmmmmm!

deor03:

bluebandI work in the UK too and i know that you probably pay 40% of that earnigns as tax, pay about £800-1000/ month on rent, pay sky , pay for phone, pay council tax etc
or what do you think?

debosky:

What other form of 'enabling' do they want? They are not being told to resign in order to complete the P.hD's, they can do so while retaining employment by going on study leave and other such arrangements. Most p.hD programs in Nigeria have some form of graduate assistant work that the student performs in the department in lieu of tuition fees with a small stipend, I know at least two people who benefited from such an arrangement in my department alone.

I don't see any reason why they should be mollycoddled or begged into getting phD's, if they are serious about being academics, they would either have started on the process long before now or would be contemplating such a move. Lets get real, its no tea party for anyone in Nigeria to start with, so anyone who truly wants to retain his position will have to bite the bullet and get cracking.

The universities and NUC have done a lot to enable - you can retain your job and study, you have a 2 year window which should be sufficient for any reasonable candidate who has started the process at least a year ago, any others who have not can simply hold graduate assistant positions till they complete their qualifications. Its high time we get people who WANT to do these things and put in time - this is not just a job it is a calling. Granted that more can always be done, there is no valid excuse for not meeting up with the requirements of this policy.

~Lady~:

I read this and I applaud it.
It's about time.

@Kobojunkie

it is mandatory for u to have a Ph.D to be a full lecturer in the US.
That's the problem my school is facing.
In the school of business some of our lecturers don't have their Ph.Ds and because of that they've been let go.
My school is a candidate to be accredited by AACSB (international) and they've already requested that all our professors have their Ph.Ds.
Those who wish to stay are working on their Ph.Ds right now.
If u don't have a Ph.D, u can still lecture but u won't get the same pay and would not be fulltime so u need to have another job elsewhere.

A problem that we've faced in our institutions in Naija is that not many of them are research institutions.
Ofcourse they cannot be research institutions if the professors cannot even formulate a theory.

If we want to compete with the rest of the worls academically and we want to pull bright students from all over the globe and gain recognition then this a step forward.

~Lady~:

@ Kobojunkie
"The average college graduate in Nigeria can not even sit on the same level with high school graduates in other parts of the world"

Please tell me this is a joke.

Did u ever school in Naija?
If u did, u'll know that what is beinf taught in the University in Yankee is what was taught in Secondary school in Naija, screw that not just Naija but in any african school.
Do u know how backwards the american school system is?

Trust me dear I know, I do work for the department of education.

Please don't sell Naija short, thanks

~Lady~:


Did u ever school in Naija?
If u did, u'll know that what is beinf taught in the University in Yankee is what was taught in Secondary school in Naija, screw that not just Naija but in any african school.
Do u know how backwards the american school system is?

Trust me dear I know, I do work for the department of education.

Please don't sell Naija short, thanks