₦airaland Forum

GentlBlunt:
Why people doesn't like reading?

Abbey, if an opinion is more than 7 or 8 lines, leave it for next time.

Sorry, I explained how predestination and free will can co-exists in that, and it takes more than 7 or 8 lines to explaining it, i mean it's complicated. Haven't you seen on other threads people writting posts just as long? I always read them... i don't see why you all can't.

luridguy:
any way i read the beginning i think u said something about free will and the devil choose his path and repent well i don't think he can he has set out to make sure people join him in hell so i don't think he has even ever thought of it........

i Did Not say anything about that. I simply was explaining how predestination and freewill can co-exists.

However, my personal opinion on if the devil repented today. ( I did not say this in my earlier post). 

If the devil repented today and God let him come back to Heaven. I would probably kill myself. And i am not joking. Because the devil repenting would mean that the Bible has a lie in it. Meaning that the Bible is completely useless. Which means that Jesus would not be God's son, which means... my entire life is a lie. My entire life is based on my relationship with Jesus. I would sooner believe that we actually live on Mars, My hands are made out of chocolate, little Green men live in my mind, 1+1=fish, Hitler is my dad, mother Theresa is my mom, I'm actually a guy, gravity doesn't exist, this is all a dream and when i wake up i will be still 7 years old, an alien, and my life since year 7 of my life has all been just simply a dream. i sooner believe this than Jesus not being God's son. I am hopeless without Jesus. And so if i found out that the devil repented today, that would all be a lie. and i would probably kill myself.

axeprince:
I have read all your postings and replies, they are all in the same direction..."devil can never repent."...I wish you all to reflect on the https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-4360.0.html abuout Human Free Will and God's all knowing knowledge

All responces tends to agree that the devil is doomed from the onset, same way Esau was doomed from before birth, same way Judas Iscariot was doomed before Jesus ever stepped on planet earth.then where does the idea of free will comes in?

Please correect me if I am wrong....

I believe strongly that there is a higher being or power that determines what happens and that we have no say in what we do or how we do them..or what happens to us or whatever.

My arguement is still open....

I was on the thread who's html you put in this quote, and i posted my thoughts which i believe make it pretty clear how predestination and freewill can co-exist. in case you don't want to go on that for yourself, I'll cut and paste what i said, so all you wonderful people may enjoy it.


thank you for taking this back to the original question of how predestination and freewill can co-exist.
I'm excited about replying to this... I actually vaguely understand it because God lots of time gives me wisdom.... So, How can predestination and freewill co-exist?

Simply because God created us.

Let me explain more. If i were to write a fictional story. So i created all the characters. I created and gave them their personality, how they think, feel, discover new things, their reactions, everything about them. Let's say that i had the power to give them souls and freewill, and i did. Now, I understand the characters so completely that i understand, i know how they will act in every single imaginable situation. I do not tell them to do it. I simply understand that they will.

This is God. He created us, he gave us everything, our personalities, how we think, feel, discover new things, everything. God understands us so completely that in every single situation, he knows how each individual soul he created would act.He, in no way, forces us to do them God simply understands us so well, that he knows what we will do . God knew, for instance, that if Chinua Achebe existed when he did, he would write the book "Things Fall Apart" and God knew, that if he wrote that book, eventually, my school would have it a requirement to read it. And God knew, that i would be in a class that had to read it, and that i would have to research about Nigeria to complete my school project.  God knew that i would type in, "Nigeria culture-religion" in google, click on a site that led me to this current one. and  God knew that it would inveterate me so much, that i would have to get an account and post my opinions. Now, I'm not saying that the reason God put Chinua Achebe on the earth at the time he did, was so i could post this. But you never know, only God knows.

This is how freewill and predestination can co-exist. God understands how we will act, so he puts us in certain places in certain times with certain people, because he knows how we will act. And he knows that the result of our life in this particular place/time/etc... will benefit his Kingdom, and his glory the most.
and yes, i know that after reading that you may ask, why God would create people who he know will end up going to Hell, and i will try to answer that the best i can, right now, so we don't have to go and create another thread that will get us nowhere .

No one can truly answer why God created people who would go to Hell. All you know, is that God is always just, but he is also merciful, all-knowing and loves us so much that he gave us Jesus, and above all, God is always right. So you must say that if it is true that God is just, merciful, all-knowing, loving, right, and it is also true that he created people who he knows will go to Hell, you must eventually conclued that either God has a reason, and that reason is just, merciful, loving, right, and good for us in the long term (all-knowing, God knows the future) or you must conclude that you yourself, as a human, with the limited knowledge capacity of a human, is right, and a God that is just, merciful, all-knowing, loving and always right, is wrong.

Hope that clears that up.      

Questions?

I have not been baptized yet. I know for a fact that if my computer were to blow up in my face and kill me right now, i would go to Heaven.

Baptism is not your ticket into heaven.

Jesus is.

Yes, it may be true that God commands us to be baptized. But he also commands us to not lie, not commit adultery, keep the sabbath holy,  not covet, not worship other idols and he commands us much more.

Unfortunately, being human, we do not obey these all the time. In fact, most of the time, we probably don't.

Hitler, if he received Christ before he died, could be in heaven right now. and I'm sure he wasn't baptized.

infant baptism is not necessarily wrong. it doesn't do any harm. But, I believe, as others on here do, that baptism is simply a symbol, a public display of our devotion to God.

thank you for taking this back to the original question of how predestination and freewill can co-exsit.

I'm excited about replying to this... I actually vaguely understand it because God lots of time gives me wisdom.... So, How can predestination and freewill co-exist?

Simply because God created us.

Let me explain more. If i were to write a fictional story. So i created all the characters. I created and gave them their personality, how they think, feel, discover new things, their reactions, everything about them. Let's say that i had the power to give them souls and freewill, and i did. Now, I understand the characters so completely that i understand, i know how they will act in every single imaginable situation. I do not tell them to do it. I simply understand that they will.

This is God. He created us, he gave us everything, our personalities, how we think, feel, discover new things, everything. God understands us so completely that in every single situation, he knows how each individual soul he created would act.He, in no way, forces us to do them[i] God simply understands us so well, that he knows what we will do[/i] . God knew, for instance, that if Chinua Achebe existed when he did, he would write the book "Things Fall Apart" and God knew, that if he wrote that book, eventually, my school would have it a requirement to read it. And God knew, that i would be in a class that had to read it, and that i would have to research about Nigeria to complete my school project.  God knew that i would type in, "Nigeria culture-religion" in google, click on a site that led me to this current one. and  God knew that it would inveterate me so much, that i would have to get an account and post my opinions. Now, I'm not saying that the reason God put Chinua Achebe on the earth at the time he did, was so i could post this. But you never know, only God knows.

This is how freewill and predestination can co-exist. God understands how we will act, so he puts us in certain places in certain times with certain people, because he knows how we will act. And he knows that the result of our life in this particular place/time/etc... will benefit his Kingdom, and his glory the most.

and yes, i know that after reading that you may ask, why God would create people who he know will end up going to Hell, and i will try to answer that the best i can, right now, so we don't have to go and create another thread that will get us nowhere  .

No one can truly answer why God created people who would go to Hell. All you know, is that God is always just, but he is also merciful, all-knowing and loves us so much that he gave us Jesus, and above all, God is always right. So you must say that if it is true that God is just, merciful, all-knowing, loving, right, and it is also true that he created people who he knows will go to Hell, you must eventually conclued that either God has a reason, and that reason is just, merciful, loving, right, and good for us in the long term (all-knowing, God knows the future) or you must conclude that you yourself, as a human, with the limited knowledge capacity of a human, is right, and a God that is just, merciful, all-knowing, loving and always right, is wrong.

Hope that clears that up. 

babagana said that, "... in Nigeria where out of every 10, 9 people will tell you they believe in God..."

What does it mean to believe in God?

Believe that he exists.

Even the Devil believes in God! Just because someone says that they "believe in God" doesn't mean that they live their life for him and only him. It is therefore quite understandable that people in Nigeria (and also the entire rest of the world) say that they believe in God, whereas they don't live out his will.

Ashbaby:
I think we should let God defend Himself when it comes to issues of whether one will go to hell or not. That's why He came up with the whole idea, anyway. How would you rank my greatgrandpops who lived in the days where there were no clothes and really, a tree was considered sacred? I wonder....

I don't 'rank' neither does anyone else, except God of course. I just simply know, that he/she who is not perfect and has not received Jesus into their heart will not go to Heaven. Only God truly knows if your greatgrandpops knew Jesus. And if he did... well i will see him in heaven.

@ Nyferyn. Thank you for referring to me, how elbaron explained atheism. I was under the delusion that atheism meant only that you believe there is no God, and that cleared it up for me.

It seems to me that either way you must take a leap of faith. Either you must take a leap of faith that God exists, is real and created us all. Or you must take a leap of faith saying, God might not exists. If God doesn't exist, then we are all basically screwed either way no matter which leap of faith you take, because we will be nothingness. But, if God does exist... then well, that's a different story. So I think, why not. Why not take a chance and believe there is a God? He might just prove it to you. Then you might think. Which God should i take a chance on? They are all so alike... Well, many religions believe that everyone goes to heaven. But, i know that, at least, Christianity says Only those who are Christians go to heaven. Let's look at how else Christianity is also unique. Take Buddha out of Budism. You still have rules to follow and, a way of life. Take Moses out of Judism, you still have rules to follow, a way of life, a religion. Take Muhammad out of Muslim, you still have rules to follow, a way of life, a religion. If you take the founder out of any religion, you would still have rules to follow, way of life. Except for Christianity. Christianity, is simply a relationship with Jesus Christ, if you were to take Jesus out of the religion, you would have absolutely nothing. Yes you could follow the rules.... but you would no longer be a Christian, because a Christian is someone who has a personal relationship with Christ, they received Jesus into their heart, and you simply can't take Jesus out of it. Also, Christianity is the only religion that you can't do anything to get into Heaven by yourself, after you have sinned. There is nothing at all you can do, but receive Jesus' gift. So, at that, if you are going to take a chance, why not take it on the most unique religion, that says they are the only way to heaven. Like i said before, if it turns out, that there is no God, it won't matter anyway. So Why not? Why not? Why not take a chance, and let yourself believe, if only for the moment, and pray that God will prove to you himself that he exists? What harm could it do? Why not?

nferyn:
When someone lives a just life and does good all through his or her life, but does not accept Jesus in his heart, he will go to hell.
Someone who commits unspeakable atrocities, but accepts Jesus on the other hand will go to heaven?

This is wicked.

I did not say that Hitler did go to heaven, and Mother Theresa did not go to heaven, i said that it's possible if Hitler received Christ before he died that he would go to heaven and if Mother Theresa didn't then she wouldn't.

Also, my point of this is, no matter what you do, we are all, in essence, evil people. If you lied one time, and that is the only bad thing you do your entire life, but you do not receive Christ before you died, you would go to hell. This is because God is perfect. He cannot be around imperfectness. But, he loves us so freaking much, that he sent his son, to die for us. nyferyn, if you were the only person to ever have sinned, God would have still sent his son to die for you. because he loves you and wants you to be with him that much. No One and i mean  absolutely no one  deserves to go to heaven. but those who recognize who Jesus is, and receive him, can... not because they did anything. because you cannot do anything good enough to get into heaven. but rather, because they received Jesus Christ.

Isn't it amazing though, that when many of us think 'sex' we think 'o God please keep me away from this temptation.' when we go and lie, covet, idolize, hate, simply lust, every day. How is it, that us humans have put values on sins. like, lying isn't as bad as premarital sex, which isn't as bad as stealing, which isn't as  bad as murdering? How can we as Christians, and humans follow both the law of humans and God at the same time. because we would all be locked up in jail if we followed only God.... i don't know how to explain my points of views on anything anymore. because simply a lie is just as horrible and wrong and unjust and ungodly as adultery and murder. so how can we choose? what give us the right to choose what should land us in jail? Sorry if I'm babbling, this has just been on my mind.

I have you all a question. So, many of us here are trying to prove that there is a God and that he exists. nferyn, said (on like the 2nd page or something.) "Give me evidence that can withstand scientifical scrutiny and I will believe." and I need to ask this. Does anyone have "evidence that can withstand scientifical scrutiny" that there isn't a God? Can you all prove, to your own standards, that there is no God? If so, may i dare ask what that evidence is? and if not, why then would you choose to believe that there is no God? Because to believe that there is no God... I'm assuming then that you would believe that we go nowhere when we die, or we are reborn. If this is the case, why do we have morals? why should we care if we murder someone or not? They would be reborn anyway! Or, they wouldn't have any place better to go at least. Why should we care if we steal? It doesn't really matter! We have no punishment for it, except maybe being a dog or a snail for a lifetime or two. Please someone answer this for me. Thank you.

The question, is, can non-Christians go to heaven? and my answer is no. but then i must refer to my definition of who a Christian is. Because not everyone who claims that they are a Christian actually is a Christian. A Christian is someone who has received Jesus Christ into their heart. If you look at the core root of what Christianity is, it is not a rule book, it is a relationship with Jesus Christ. I can honestly say, that if Hitler, before he died, received Jesus into his heart, he Would be in heaven right now. i can also honestly say that if Mother Theresa did not truly receive Jesus into her heart, that she would not be in heaven.  None of us should be able to go to heaven. because we have all sinned. and so because and only because Jesus Christ, the only human who is perfect and God's son, died for us, and rose from the dead, we can go to heaven, if only we realize this, and receive Christ into our heart. believing in God doesn't really have to do with anything.... because i mean, the Devil, for goodness sakes, believes in God. And, about people who have never heard even so much as the name Jesus Christ. They have just as good of a chance to go to heaven. because God reveals himself to everyone in their life. he gives everysingle soul at least one chance to go to heaven. those on some island somewhere, they will get their chance. even if they die not knowing the name Jesus Christ. because God Promises! that he Will reveal himself to Every single person. I've heard of missionary's going to islands in the middle of nowhere, and when they get there to teach them about Christ, the natives already know. not the name, persay, but they know that there is a creator. they know, because God has reveled himself to them. Has any one read, or seen the movie, "The Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe" based on the book in the Chronicles of Narnia, written by C.S. Lewis?  that is essentially the story of Jesus Christ. and had Asland, the lion that portrays the character of Jesus, not died instead of, the traitor, Edmund, Edmund could not have lived. Good works get you nowhere. they are a good thing to do, but you don't have to do them to get into heaven. you can never do enough good works. no matter what, you will never be able to go to heaven on good works alone.