₦airaland Forum

@babyosisi

You keep pressing the button . Long Time and how u doing.

If only u knew the people Allah was talking about in that verse. Once again, the importance of understanding the context of revelation. The verse was about some jews who trangressed in the issue of the sabbath and thus were changed to monkeys.With fairness, islam didn't discriminate against blacks. You should know there was a black Man (Bilal) among the companions of the prophet.

I have resolved to make no further comments.

Islam has been a blessing to me and i'm happy to be a believer. Islam has taught me not to discriminate by tribe or ethnic background and thats why i follow it. If Islam had taught racial discrimination, i wouldn't have followed it.

Your religion to you and Mine to me.

Ma'Salam.

I believe it's a propaganda.

We shld strive continuosly to be better knowing that we are not perfect.

@stimulus & davidylan

How far will we go dogmatically arguing against one another on an issue that has perhaps done more harm to our people than Good. Millions and million of people killed in the name of religion. I see religion as a means to achieving happiness for me, my people and world. If Islam and christianity doenst help that , then there's no use.

I think it wasn't right of you to choose a part of the reported sayings of Muhammad to suggest Muhammed's hatred towards the Jews.I made me do a random search on jew related issues and on the two main source of Hadithes (Sahih Muslim and Sahih Bukhari) ,Heres the page: link: http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/reference/searchhadith.html , please type the word jew on this . From the result i saw and trying to put things in context, Muhammed could be said to have been tolerant. History even as reported by non believing scientist have confirmed that the rule of Muslims was more tolerant to the Jews than other recent powers that ruled on Jews in pre modern times.

On this issue , i will not take side because i'm muslim or christian, if religion will divide or cause hatred among our peoples , then of what use is it.I will not hate a people because of the wrong doings of a group of them and i look straight to the belief in one God and one alone.

Yes, its true, Islam advises, if both sides do not agree then you go your way. Thats why i maintain your way to you and mine to me.

Ma'Salam

@Stimulus

Now clearer, you are blindly biased against Muslims or Islam. You have made conclusions even before discussing. The Muslims awaitbno Messiah to Save them from any thing. The Muslim awit the fulfilment of the promise of their lord,the Last day and the signs that shall herald the last day. The rising of the Sun from the west, the return of  Jesus , Son of Mary an dapparently a companion of Jesus in the name of Mahdi etc

Your way to you and my way to Me.

stimulus:
No, I haven't forgotten that - which is precisely one of the points I'd like abdkabir to note when he reads my rejoinder.

It is nothing but foolishness to hate a people because of the errors of some of them. For those who advocate hatred towards the Jews , they are indeed in great Error. I'm a Muslim and i know of what i say. The hatred the palestins and those apologetic to their cause harbour for the Jews might be understandable in context but is definately not a religious. That a Jew (allegedly killed Muhammed SAW) is no excuse for the hatred of an entire people and i'm sure this is the position of islam.

God be with you.
abdkabir

<sup>Quote from: abdkabir on Yesterday at 03:14:46 PM
The Jews are Simply monotheist as the muslim who believe in a Saviour who would come save from from the clutches of oppresion of the world.

There is something fatally wrong in your inference. First, who is the "Saviour" that Muslims are expecting to come save from the clutches of the oppression of the world? Whoever that figure is, it is obvious that Jewish and Muslim understanding of the Messiah are worlds apart.</sup>

Here , i meant the awaiting of a Saviour (Messiah) by the Jew and not the Muslim.

<sup>Quote from: abdkabir on Yesterday at 03:14:46 PM
The Jews are Simply monotheist as the muslim who believe in a Saviour who would come save from from the clutches of oppresion of the world.

There is something fatally wrong in your inference. First, who is the "Saviour" that Muslims are expecting to come save from the clutches of the oppression of the world? Whoever that figure is, it is obvious that Jewish and Muslim understanding of the Messiah are worlds apart.

Second, Muslims are not monotheists as the Jews; otherwise, one would wonder why Muhammad so hated the same Jews and accused them of a corrupt religion. Although Muslims love to think of Islam as a monotheistic religion per excellence, a closer look reveals that it is actually nothing short of disguised polytheism (no offences meant; but perhaps by following the outline by another Nairalander in the "Israel Malik Esthers" thread, it may become obvious why I'm persuaded so - please see post message # 32,  post # 36 and post # 37).</sup>


Your position suggests some kind of bias against Islam, Muhammed didn't hate the Jews , He did indeed accuse them of killing of the prophets and messenger after the word of God had reached them but he didnt hate nor promote the hate of Jews. He praised the followers of Truth among them just as he accused the hipocrites.History has proven that of the Three recent powers which reigned over the affairs of the Jews, the Muslims were the most tolerant. The issue of Xenophobia towards Jews in recent years has it origin in the Forceful establishment of the state of Isreal by colonilist in the 20th century and the wars that occurred subsequently, Much before then, Muslims and Christians co-existed in Palestine.


You canot make judgment of what the Jews believe of God using the christian interpretation of the the Old testament. It would be fairer u consult a Jewish resource(website etc) to understand how the verses the christians assume affirm the divinity of Jesus are seen.

<sup>That you are messiah doesnt necesarily mean you are the Son of God or God.

That would only make your argument conveniently selective in favour of whatever Islam teaches; and not because Muslims are willing enough to investigate the allegations of the Qur'an against the Bible. In so far as the Qur'an ascribes the authorship of the Jewish Scriptures (including the Torah and the Psalms) to the Allah of Islam, then there are no grounds for currying an argument of convenience denying what the Jewish Scriptures state in reference to the Deity of the Messiah.</sup>

I have touched in various occasionS the issue of Revelations with particular emphasis on the fact that many a times, the memories of men were the repositories of such revelation. This also applies to the Torah(What islam understand as revelation to moses) and Psalms (of David) mentioned. IN this case, we are not necesarily talking about the documentation we have today but the information as it was revealed. The truth of which many knew during the time of the Prophet.

It is important to note that the Old testament as we have it today is also a compilation of account of happenings by Jewish elders. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Old_Testament

Kind Regards.

We are closer than it appears.

God Bless.

That Christianity predates Islam does not necesarily mean it's a copy of christianity.
That the Quran recognises the messengership and messiahship of Jesus does not necesarily infer he is one of a Trinity. That you are messiah doesnt necesarily mean you are the Son of God or God. If that were true then it would be that the messiah the Jew were and are expecting  is part of a divinity and that  would be far from the truth. The Jews are Simply monotheist as the muslim who believe in a Saviour who would come save from from the clutches of oppresion of the world .

As always, issues  of this type end in a deadlock.  We are both adamant to our positions.

I would conclude that God, History , Science, whatever people  believe in will shed more light and judge in this affair.

In truth, there have be submitters to one God much before Christianity. As usual i guess it's time a definately rest my case on this issue.

Many thanks for the conversation.

Peace.

Seun:
What does web designing have to do with preparing food, making babies, and sleeping with your husband?

[b]Answer:[/b]A Fantastic Webdesigner who reconciles the fascinatiing aspects of life with reeling out Images and HTML codes. They are very much related.

stimulus:
How could two faiths that have different beliefs at the same time become the same?

Christianity and Islam has got a lot in common.I should note that Muhammed's position about Jesus is no different from that of the Quran. Islam recognises the messengersship of Jesus but refuses to declare the divinity. I should note that this position wasn't necesarily novel with Muhammad. It appears to me that for many years , many members of the early christians, much earlier to the canonization of sacred texts, had positions similar to islams. Also there are among the Christian denominations of today who do not believe in the Divinty of Jesus.

@ the end of the day, the question of which bible the quran refers to  is worth asking. From the information i have consulted i guess it would be approriate to say the Injil the Quran talked about is the "Revealed Knowledge" passed from prophets to disciples and followers. It would then mean tha the Memories of men, served as the repository for the sacred information. This wouldn't be strange as the sunnah of the Prophet was preserved similarly.

It's noteworthy  that , as time passes, such information if not well preserved are subject to intentional and non-intentional corruption. It might as well be that such discrepancies was the basis for the various councils organised to establish a common ground duing the catholic reign. That still would not be out of the world as Uthman had embarked upon a similar activity. How far away this activities are from the (original knowledge revealed ) in both Islam and Christianity,God alone Knows best.

I  based by judgment on what i consider a rational comparism of the time it took for the Standard, State accepted version of the scriptures (Bible, Quran) to be made. In that Case, the Quran would appear to be nearer to it's date of initial revelation (thus better preserved) than the (New Testament) Bible. And Still, God Knows Best.

Peace

Freewilly:
I can smell your type from a mile away, it's your type that come on the Internet to look for a wife.
J-girl is a good friend of mine and I'm just looking out for a good friend, it's that ok with you ?

Total Crap. Wetin be ur own .In the first instance.What makes u think chatting with a lady directly implies lookign for a wife or is that what runs in ur head? U simply dont know me and that it.Is it not possible i was just tryiong to make a frnd and do i have to chat to get married?I beg stop that conservatism.

<sub>Now, abdkabir, let me ask you directly: with all the scholarship you've perused and offered from those websites, which of them helps your case - Cerinthus; the nameless student of the Alexandrian school; or Yoosuf al-Khoori's version? Who really are these so-called 'scholars' who can't even agree among themselves; and who must be applauded as long as their theories help the Islamic propaganda against the Bible?

#2. As for Raymond E. Brown, what "initial version" did he use to arrive at his inference? If he could be taken serously, then by the same rule, we could question Muhammad himself to produce the "initial version" of the Injil that the Qur'an alluded to as being sent down by Allah to Jesus. Failing to do so will all the more make for serious comedy. Rather than make empty claims in the Qur'an, we want to see those original versions of the Torah, the Talmud, and the Injil that Muhammad once applauded in the Qur'an before later accusing the Bible of having been tampered with and corrupted.

When Muslims are asked to provide these texts, very often they resort to excuses and scoot off to irrelevant debates to this same question. It is even more pathetic that Muslims who believe that the Bible has been corrupted, would yet want to "prove" that Muhammad was prophesied in the same Bible! So, they quote texts after texts from the Bible as confirmation of their claims; and yet cannot sustain such claims when exposed to the gist of the texts they quote.</sub>

It seems U arent getting me. My position was that of a critical analysis of the Veracity of the Total Divinity of the New Testament. I thought i made it clear my analysis was in no way to malign Christianity as i am a fan of it though i'm a Muslim.

As regard the divinity if the Quran, i wouldnt deny that the gathering process could be said to be of questionable character considering some statements credited to Umar. Notheless, if we are to make a comparative judgmnent on whioch would be nearer to originalty ,the Quran oficially compiled (653 AD, 30 years after Muhammads death) and the NT:

<sup>According to the Catholic Encyclopedia article on the Canon of the New Testament: "The idea of a complete and clear-cut canon of the New Testament existing from the beginning, that is from Apostolic times, has no foundation in history. The Canon of the New Testament, like that of the Old, is the result of a development, of a process at once stimulated by disputes with doubters, both within and without the Church, and retarded by certain obscurities and natural hesitations, and which did not reach its final term until the dogmatic definition of the Tridentine Council [Council of Trent]."

In the first three centuries of the Christian Church, Early Christianity, there seems to have been no New Testament canon that was universally recognized.</sup>

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_testament#Date_of_composition

That suggest at least 300 years after Jesus.

@least that would suggest a nearer originality of the Quran than that of the Bible. At the end of the Day. Who cares, if its chritianity of Islam. What matters is that we are believers in a World of peace.

Getting hurt is part of what makes a Man, I feel not Bad. Still, your analogy is questionable as u do not know my class.

Bro Kitaun, abeg help me melow this lady O. Sadly i didnt cross her path!

Was a Nice time with the duo. . No intentions of yabbing ,just having a nice time with You

@freewilly
DOnt be surprised if i show up at the weekend party.

Gud Night!

WHere r u @ j-girl and @freewilly the defender.

shes getting there gradually.

So what have u got.

Oula.

U really getting Nuts. Whats up with you. Did u miss a date or what.

There are few pics on the forum and there's more to beauty than pics, thus my judgment isnt absolute. Having said that, i would go for Gamine within my limited knowledge. Gamine,abeg comment on this man's view.

What on heaven is your business with my night flair !

Yeah, Mission accomplished. ? So whats the Name now . A least satisfy my curiosity. U could give me hints.

U leave that Answer for later. Have we interacted enough to have my name in ur list or ?