₦airaland Forum

LagosShia: From a western viewpoint he was wrong.

But from a muslim point,it is not.and why I'm I to believe you're right.

You have no Quranic justification for a bounty on Rushdie's head. None. Where is it in the Quran?

What is western viewpoint? This is common sense. A man wrote a book that is fiction and the book is an insult to islam. Does that mean we should kill him?

Where is the death sentence for the Clerics that falsely accuse young girls of blasphemy or the muslim that beat their wives? Where is the call for the death penalty for those muslims who killed a US official?

deols: Interesting discourse.

I av nothing to say yet.

cool.

LagosShia: I'm sorry to say this but you're now sounding like a mad man as both your threads progress or may be digress.why put words into my mouth? An head of state enforces and passes laws over his subjects.I never said he's a "god".

Sorry for that. I have been quite harsh on you.


The thing is that the head of state who put a hit on Rushdie's head is wrong. That is my point.

LagosShia: You shouldn't let this or the inability of the muslims there to defend their beliefs play into your head.

These are just arguments.if I sit down to think deep for a few minutes I can come up with counter-arguments why Islam insists not giving its women to non-muslim men.

This debate in your workplace is more or less a comedy show.they are using psychology to debase the muslims.if I were there I would as well have laughed along with them instead of feeling down.protecting our women from losing or compromising their faith that could result in subjecting them to marry non-muslim men isn't meant to please those clowns.if they feel bad,too bad.in reality how many white british men would even marry arab christian women? You have to see beyond the show they're putting talking about "fairness" and "tolerance".they are only being argumentative on this point to bring out their prejudice against Islam in a tactical way.

I have seen a lot of interracial and inter-religious marriages here in London. Can you please give me your counterargument for non-muslim marriage?


Let's see how good you are

maclatunji: Please read the following link, it is not the best presentation because of the limited English of the writer but it does address some of your fear of being ostracized. So, you should find it interesting at the very least http://www.turntoislam.com/forum/showthread.php?t=63800

Yes, the Qur'an asks us to reason but if you don't realise by now that human intellect is ridiculously deficient when juxtaposed with divine wisdom, then there is a problem.

I understand what your link is trying to say.

I guess at the end, my involvement with the capitalist lifestyle has gotten a hold of me. after working in my company for years, I am well trained to see the rational sides of things and take the most logical route. I was in the marketing department before. We used numbers and figures to decide where we spend our marketing funds. We always took the logical route. We took the routes with less risks if they guaranteed enough returns. We convinced managers to choose our products with logical arguments. "the figures say that by using our financial services, you will save 20% of costs and be at least 33% more efficient- no ther company can guarantee you such a promise".


Now, someone asks me to trust in faith. I have been a faithful man all my life. There comes a time as a muslim where you are left with a rational choice and a choice to put your issue on faith..........


I dont know if you can see my problem

LagosShia: So you know men are the "guardians"/"protectors" of women?

Where did I say men are the "daddies" of women?

I think you need to stop making a mockery out of yourself.no one is fighting with you.it is out of favor I'm using my time to participate in your two threads so far.you should stop fighting with yourself.



In the book of acts,it is claimed that the "prophet" (not "god" ) promised in deuteronomy 18:18 is Jesus (as).that must be "blasphemy" too.I'm sorry to say but if you follow the tracks and state of confusion of these people who cannot identify what blasphemy is,you will end up in great misguidance.

Sorry. I am sorry.

As you can see, I am still angry from the debate. Maybe I am putting my anger on you and others who have answered my questions. The problem is that the debate and situation in my office really affected me. You should have seen it. It was like an execution of islam. Anytime the muslim debaters made a point, it was met with sarcastic laughter as they were not making any points at all.

Let me give you a clear example.

When asked about non-muslim men getting married to muslim women, the muslim debaters were straightforward;

"The Quran allows a muslim man to marry a woman of the book in certain conditions but a muslim woman can not marry a non muslim. That is the position and it will not change."


Then the non-muslim debater came with his own rebuttal;

"Two can play your stupid game. The bible state that we should stone heretics which would include muslims. That is the position and it will not change (Everyone burst into laughter at this point). Anyone can state what is in a book- defending the statement logically is the key. My fellow debaters and co-workers, our muslim friend here has failed to defend his position on non-muslim marriage". (rapturous applause rom the audience)



Defending a statement logically is what matters.

LagosShia: Pro212 is christian.

Oh, I see

LagosShia: Holy Qur'an 2:120
" Never will the Jews nor the Christians be pleased with you (O Muhammad Peace be upon him) till you follow their religion".

Holy Qur'an 68:9
"They wish that you should compromise (in religion out of courtesy) with them, so they (too) would compromise with you.

Ah, the same christian that used to drive me to the mosque? That is what my landlord did for me before I had my car. He used to go to old peoples clubs on friady and so dropped me on the way. Not all christians are the same. Some burn Qurans, some hate our prophet and some just want to live in peace.

You know, I forgot about this verse. Thanks for reminding me.


I can never be a christian.

maclatunji: That's how the cookie crumbles, you either take it or leave it. I guess you're seeking clarifications. Have you studied the concept of "we hear and we obey"?

Yes, you are right. I am seeking clarifications (if that means an explanation). Please enlighten me on this "hear and obey". The Quran tells us to reason.

LagosShia: Just for clarification,a divorced woman is no longer under her father's guard and becomes independent.I am talking of un-married females and not divorced females like your boss,Mr. AbdulSleek.

I think I'm done with this thread because I don't care about "mockery" of anyone or their ignorance.no time to even waste.I can see an Islamophobe is already in the thread "helping" you to have more doubts based his/her blindness.

If I may add one more point,muslims claim the prophecy in deuteronomy 18:18 about a prophet like Moses (as) to come is Muhammad (sa).christians insist that prophecy is about Jesus (as) and that is also claimed in the books of acts.so christians are also taking part in the "muslim blasphemy" of calling Jesus (as) a "prophet"!

Under her father's guard? What of she has no father? You then transfer her life to her uncle? Then the uncle die, you tranfer yo her brother or to her male cousin?

Why not stop this barbaric practice and remove guardianship. Do you understand Arabic? Are you reading a false version of the Quran? When the Quran says men are the guardians of women, it doesnt mean that men are the "daddies" of women. We protect them but we dont control their lives.





And keep telling us how you know more about the bible than christians. I am not a christian and for you to lay a charge on christians that they blaspheme their own god (Jesus (PBUH)) shows that you are an anti-christian bigot. You hve the nerve to call someone an islamophobe? Yes the guy might be an islamophobe but you have no moral grounding to call him an islamohpobe.


I said that a having doubts, I did not say that I'm a christian or mushrik.

proo212: I think this Abdulsleek guy is a Christian.

How embarrassing. This is why islam is in turmoil. When a muslim complains about a certain practice, there are some that will listen and debate and there are some that will just tell the complainant to shut up and stop behaving like a kaffir.


Stop making false accusations. I am a muslim even though I am questioning my faith. If you dont agree with me, then debate or tell my what is wrong with my opinion.

The Quran tells us to use our brain


إِنَّ شَرَّ الدَّوَابَّ عِندَ اللّهِ الصُّمُّ الْبُكْمُ الَّذِينَ لاَ يَعْقِلُونَ

Truly, the worst of all creatures in the sight of Allah are the deaf,
the dumb, those who do not use their reason.
Qur'an 8:22

joe4christ: Let me give u some few dose before i go to my bed and have a sweet sleep.
2 Timothy 2:23-24 - Have nothing to do with foolish, ignorant
controversies; you know that they breed
quarrels. And the Lord's servant must
not be quarrelsome but kind to
everyone, able to teach, patiently
enduring evil

Philippians 2:14 - Do all things without grumbling or
questioning

Titus 3:1-2 - Remind them to be submissive to rulers
and authorities, to be obedient, to be
ready for every good work, to speak evil
of no one, to avoid quarreling, to be
gentle, and to show perfect courtesy
toward all people.

Romans 14:19 - So then let us pursue what makes for
peace and for mutual upbuilding.

James 3:17 - But the wisdom from above is first pure,
then peaceable, gentle, open to reason,
full of mercy and good fruits, impartial
and sincere.

Let me stop here for now"

Still preaching

Paris-Love:
It seems you already made that your decision since you rejected your bros in islam advices LOL


Good luck in your debate, you'll definitely need it.

No. I accepted some of their advice. However, some of the advice by my muslim brothers are quite wrong. They are saying the exact same things that my muslim coworkers who were debating said.

Non-muslims make a mockery out of us. Imagine someone saying that "women need guardians". The foolish muslim debaters were saying this while president of the company is a woman that has no husband (divorced). She has been promoted as the head for 3 years as the head director of the company.


I seriously am thinking about my faith. I can not for one believe that Someone can go up to a person and say that "I can marry your women and you cant marry mine, if you dont like it, I dont care, it's the Quran". Isnt that intolerance? The non-muslims were really angry that someone could tell them whom they cant marry. The non-muslims that shout freedom in the west- a muslim wants to restrict his freedom?

LagosShia: If there's any place where Allah is called a "man" or a "prophet",and that is a sincere belief held by non-muslims and they believe their salvation depend on it,then it is not blasphemy.

They believe Muhammad (sa) isn't a prophet of God.and I'm not offended.



And the fifth option: allow her wish and watch her live a sorrowful life and end up heartbroken without the blessing of Allah (swt).there are too many possibilities but doing the right thing even though difficult or bitter will surely avert many future ills.

True that my daughter is not my property.but in Islam a child in particular a non-married/virgin girl have either her father,brother or husband as her guardian.

Just admit that you are wrong. This is why the non-muslims make mockery of us. You keep falling into a bigger hole each time.


The guardian nonsense is an example of a Saudi Arabian totalitarian theocracy. Women need guardians. I was raised by only my mother who was the 3rd wife of my father who did not even care about her. My mother left him and raised me by herself and I am an educated man myself. My mother did not take help from anyone as she was the only child.

Women do not need guardians. Especially one like you that wants to control her married life.


My landlord who is a non-muslim married a muslim woman and they live a humble life. They have been married for 20 years with children. Please, how long have you been married? Why would you assume that a non-muslim man and a muslim woman will fail in marriage? Is that not an obvious biased statement not based in reality?

LagosShia: When the non-muslims and their backers stop the premeditated provocations/attacks,I would consider your words.a death sentence by a muslim head of state is totally different from mob action.

When did a muslim head of state become a god? Is his judgement now absolute?

joe4christ: You're just deluded bro, you're actually under the power of the highest deceptive spirit.
Mark my word, you'll come to the knowledge of this someday but i just pray it wont be too late.
Jesus loves you and he died to set you free from every bondage and give you eternal life and peace undescribable.

Why do christians preach when they cant argue?

Seriously, is this in the bible?

LagosShia: Two things:

1.) Non-muslims don't believe in Muhammad (sa) because they believe he's a false prophet.is that blasphemy too?

2.) I wouldn't give my daughter to a non-muslim.its not a personal issue.I don't doubt there are very lovely non-muslims and friendly people.I don't also doubt that financially they can take care of my daughter.but I believe I can also find caring and loving muslims who will marry my daughter and take care of her financially and spiritually too.why settle for less? No one is forcing anyone to marry or not to marry.its their choice.there are christians who would swear not to marry muslims,and so what?

1) Non-muslims dont believe in Allah and the rest of the religion automatically follows. Dont start lying against non-muslims because saying that one does not believe in god or alla is not the same as saying that Muhammad (sa) is a false prophet.

Jesus (PBUH) is god in their religion. Islam says that he is not a prophet. Imagine if a kaffir wrote a book saying that Allah is only a prophet, wouldnt that be blasphemy?


2) Your daughter is not your property. If she falls in love with a non-muslim., you have 4 choices

-Dont give your blessings to the marriage. She will hate you
-Disown her if she marries the guy. She will hate you for life
-Honour killing. You will rot in jail and the husband will hate you.
-Accept her choice as a grown woman.


Your choices dont look too good if you dont want non -muslims to marry your daughter.

tpia@:
The issue of marriage arises because Islam is cultural as well as religious.

Someone who is bent on marrying a muslim woman should just look for areas where the culture doesnt frown on it,imo.

I dont really understand why someone would insist on marrying a person whose culture and relatives are determinedly antagonistic to such.

Wont some physical harm ensue from this type of scenario.

No be person wey dey alive dey do relationship with somebody?

Your first sentence betrays you. I can take a guess that you havent read the Quran or you are not a muslim?

Sweetnecta: @Bbdulsleek:

@ Sweetnecta


You are not logically defending your position concerning non-muslim marriage. As I have told LagosShia, you can not tell someone that you can marry is women but he can not marry your women. You only end up looking like a cheating bigot. Can you explain why there are non-muslim men who have long lasting marriages with devout muslim women and live a happy life? My landlord is an example.

My niece can marry who she wants. It is her right. I am not the honour killing type. I only advice her to marry a man that can care for her financially, is respnsible and loves her.

LagosShia: Calling Jesus (as) a prophet is not blasphemy.if they think muslims calling Jesus (as) a prophet and if there are blasphemy laws in the UK,islam would be banned,then the bible too would be banned in the UK (for calling Jesus a prophet)!

Here are places the bible calls Jesus (as) "prophet";and I am yet to see anywhere in the bible Jesus (as) identified himself as "god":

Matthew 21:11
"The crowds answered, "This is Jesus, the prophet from Nazareth in Galilee."

Luke 7:16
"They were all filled with awe and praised God. "A great prophet has appeared among us," they said. "God has come to help his people."

Luke 24:19
"What things?" he asked. "About Jesus of Nazareth," they replied. "He was a prophet, powerful in word and deed before God and all the people".

John 9:17
"Finally they turned again to the blind man, "What have you to say about him? It was your eyes he opened." The man replied, "He is a prophet."

muslims believing in Jesus (as) as a man and prophet of God is not insult but based on sincere religious belief that can even be found written in the bible calling him "man" (not "god" ) and "prophet".for a reminder early christians were split on the issue of Jesus' nature.it happened the romans adopted what naturally would prevail as the romans held political power.however there is no insult in beliving or disbelieving.non-muslims don't believe in Muhammad (sa) because they're not convinced he's a true prophet of God.and I'm not offended by that.so freedom to believe or disbelieve shouldn't be confused for blasphemy,insult,provocation,slander or defamation.


Give them examples of places where Islam was ruling but the other religions remained to this day.

In india,the muslims ruled for centuries but the hindus remained a majority.

In the levant (syria,palestine and lebanon),christianity survived.

In spain,muslims saved the jews from christian anti-semitism.

Now take mozambique,the philippines and spain where christianity took over and muslims suffered persecution.

You can also argue that tolerance is not objective but atimes subjective.people always want to be pleased.and you can't please everyone all times.


A muslim man is only allowed to marry christian and jewish women alongside muslim women.muslim men cannot marry atheists or hindus.

The woman is the giver and carrier of life.if you take our women then the children would not be hers.

This law isn't meant to please non-muslims.if they don't like it,then they are free too to control their daughters from our boys and they should stay away from our girls.if I'm not mistaken,do jewish women marry non-jews? I doubt.so why all the noise about Islam?


Silly people!

Joke and "freedom" must be exercised responsibly and not with the intention to purposefully offend others under the guise of "joking".


Are you taking care of her to dash her to a non-muslim who in turn will change or influence her life and give you non-muslim children? Well you can accept a non-muslim if you're ready to invest in her for nothing! Marriage is sacred and therefore when you give your niece to a non-muslim,would it be in church or mosque where the wedding would be conducted?

What about their different lifestyles? How would they reconcile? One party or both would have to compromise on their ways.and that is what muslims don't want to subject their daughters to.if non-muslims don't mind,then its their choice.also if non-muslims are really tolerant and open minded why do they find it hard to embrace islam even for the sake of marrying a muslim woman while concealing their disbelief? Abeg they should go and rest.




Doesn't Allah feel cheated by them following falsehood and their desires? No one is forcing anyone to marry anyone.it is by choice.would a church conduct a wedding if the husband is not christian? For the fact that there is a law in islam to the interest of muslims doesn't mean non-muslims do not have a choice or say in who they accept to marry.and also muslims have the choice not to marry.marriage is by consent.so the law is no compulsion.its only a guideline.and finally what right or business does a non-muslim have to dictate how laws should be in islam? Isn't that infringement?

My two issues with your answers are

1) The marriage of non muslims

2) Jesus (PBUH) being god in Christianity.

LagosShia;
This law isn't meant to please non-muslims.if they don't like it.......

That is quite an intolerant statement. When debating with someone and you say "that is the rule and I don't care if you like it or not", you are just being stubborn and unreasonable. The non-muslims really dealt with us. You are saying the same thing that a muslim debater said and the non-muslims made mockery out of him. You can not just tell people that they cant marry your women but you can marry theirs. This is one thing that is making me lose my faith.

My landlord who gave me 3 months rent free because I helped the son to find a job in my workplace is an igbo man who married a Hausa muslim. He is one of the kindest men I know and his wife is the most humble woman I have ever known. She always willing to cook for me and my family. What would you do in my situation?
Would you start pocknosing in their business and asking the wife how she raises her children in the islamic faith when she has never troubled you?




Concerning Jesus, christians believe that Jesus is God. You went ahead to quote the bible out of context to say that he is only a prophet. You are remixing another person's religion by force to meet your own religious doctrine. When they say Islam is intolerant, you would be complaining.


Sorry if I am harsh on you. The non-muslims in my workplace made fools out of our muslim debaters and used similar arguments to the ones that I have just put.

Thank you for your reply.

I agree with many parts but I will adress the small part that I dont agree with soon

LagosShia: I am pointing out the double standard of laws in the west.if salman rushdie had written a book targeting jews,he would be dealt with for anti-semitism.but when islam is attacked and muslims offended it is "freedom".

I also earlier pointed out that on an individual basis there is no punishment in the Quran for apostacy or blasphemy.the Quran does promote freedom to believe/disbelieve.

“The Truth is from your Lord”: Let him who will, believe, and let him who will,disbelieve".[18:29]

"Let there be no compulsion in religion: Truth stands out clear from error: whoever rejects Taghut and believes in Allah hath grasped the most trustworthy hand-hold that never breaks. And Allah heareth and knoweth all things." [2:256]

"Those who believe, then disbelieve, then believe again, then disbelieve, and then increase in their disbelief - Allah will never forgive them nor guide them to the path."[4:137].

Based on verse 4:137,if a person is to be killed for apostacy,then how can he believe again after he disbelieves?

often when apostates are punished on a public scale,it takes the theme of treason.

This is what puts me off my own religion. You see, I was in agreement with you on the riba issue even though you are a Shia muslim.

Unfortunately, you dont want to admit that you are wrong. Too many muslims, inlcuding fake clerics fly in the face of common sense to unbelievers giving islam a bad name.

You have no Quranic justification for killing Salman Rushdie. Salman Rushdie is wrong with his book of fiction. Must we kill him for only writing a book? Has he harmed one muslim? The violent reactions were by our fellow muslims not the kaffir or unbelievers.


You have remixed Rushdie's crime to treason. That is wrong. Let us be fair. In attempts to kill and silence Rushdie, bookstores were firebombed, translators murdered and innocent people killed in trying to bomb other translators/editors/publishers. All because of one death sentence that shouldnt have been handed out. When the kaffir say that Islam is a violent religion, you will be complaining but you showed them a failed version of islam that doesnt exist in the Quran.


Salman Rushdie was discussed in the debates at my work place. I learnt a lot. Admit that you are wrong. Do you live in the West? I will let ouknow that it is things like these that turn many of our western brothers away from our religion. Even in my office, some muslims were laughing at our muslim debaters.

LagosShia: Hilary clinton is making it easier by confessing and you still call that conspiracy?

You think this mockery of islam by the western media isn't planned and acceptable to their governments? Why is questioning the holocaust a crime but defaming others is "free speech"?

What is my business with Hilary Clinton? We were talking about Salman Rushdie. Holocaust laws are not based on blasphemy or religion.


We are talking about Salman Rushdie who wrote a fiction. Are you angry about fiction? If you dont agree with someone on religion, must you kill him?

Where in the Quran is it justifiable to kill an apostate who writes rubbish about islam? Even holocaust deniers are not murdered.


As a Nigerian muslim, I wonder why you are worked up about WW2 massacres that have nothing to do with your religion or country.

bukatyne: when i meant rules, i don't mean commandments. rules is a wrong choice of words cos u won't understand wat i mean. God has given us commandments like don't steal, lie, kill, commit adultery etc. wat i meant was that there is nothing like eat this, sit this way, don't look like this, don't sleep like this etc. i might prefer kneelin to pray, some may prefer standing, i might like to pray @ night, some might pray in the morning etc i'm sure u get my drift. i'm sorry if i gave u the impression that there are no clear definitions of right and wrong. there are.

You serious? I actually thought that you were very intelligent. What kind of remixing is this? commandments are rules. Please, I like listening to preaching sometimes but stop this convoluted logic and brainwashing.

bukatyne: u are forgiven! lol! when i say christianity is not a religion but a way of life it means there are no rigid rules. it is not a set of rules of do this, do that but we have the Holy Spirit in us who guide us on everything so d way i worship God or see some things ll be different from d way you see it that's why some christians see nothing wrong in trousers, make up, adding attachments to hair etc but some count it as a sin etc. the most important thing is to rely on the leading of the Holy Spirit. we worship God and Jesus Christ And we worship Them in Spirit and in Truth. They are everywhere.

Sorry but you are preaching. Even in my workplace, the atheists say that christians preach too much!

How can you say that christianity has no rigid rules? Is homosexual activities accepted in christianity?

You are sounding like the Buddhists and hindus from Asia at my workplace. They always say that there is no right and wrong. Just follow the spiritual leanings!


As you can see, I work a lot and so, I spend a lot of time at work!

Salaam everyone!

I have just come back from a formal debate at work where the topic was "Islam blasphemy and tolerance". The non-muslims raised some points that our muslim debaters failed to address. We are having another debate next week friday and I would like some help in countering their points. I myself want to debate. We had fools (Allah forgive me for calling my fellow muslim fools) representing us that could only point fingers at the west rather than stay on topic.

So, I will list some of their points;

1) That islam would be banned if they were to have blasphemy laws in the UK. They said that the christians believe in Jesus (PBUH) as a god but muslims reduce him to only a prophet.

2) That islam is intolerant (Alah forgive them) because islam has not coexisted with any other religion in this present time. They ere complaining that in any islamic country, the minority religion suffers.

3) That some of them tried to date women (this is the one that amuses me) that were muslims only to find out that they could not marry the muslim women due to the Quran's stipulation. They were angry that a muslim man is allowed to marry their women. They argue that it is intolerance

4) That islam is against freedom of speech. One non-muslim made the others laugh by saying that Islam is boring that they dont even have proper comedians in islamic countries because one false joke about the religion and they are dead.




I too am questioning my faith as a muslim. The non-muslims in my office really hammered point number 3. I pay my niece's university school fees. If she brings back a british boy from university whom she wants to marry that is not muslim, should I stop her? If the boy doesnt convert, do I really have the right to say that she is not a real muslim for marrying a non-muslim?
The non-muslim workers were bitter about this fact. I had to even caution them as they were saying things like "muslims should stick to only their women that dress like ninja if they dont want us to marry their women"

Yes, they were abusive at times but they had me pondering at this point. Wouldnt the non-muslim feel cheated that someone can freely take his women (assuming they are people of the book) but he cant take theirs?

Please help me counter these point or leave comments. Thank you very much!

bukatyne: Christianity is not a religion, it's a way of life so we necessarily don't have to lose our identity as christians. for example, d way a yoruba christian would eat, drink, greet, dress or dance is different from the way an igbo/hausa christian would do the same thing. God created us differently and loves when we showcase our styles/diversity to Him. christians also face d same challenges. a true christian wouldn't partake in some activities others see nothing wrong in and u know that the world hates people who are different esp when u are colleagues/mates. i assure u dat if u were a boss, ur colleagues would see ur difference in a positive light. if u feel people are wrong, you win them over wit d beauty of ur behavior and not your acts of self righteousness or condemnations. that's why i told you to read your koran very well and understand so that you ll not just do wat you see people doing but you know d right thing and how to defend it to others peacefully.

Are you preaching? You christians and your preaching sef!


Thanks for the words of encouragement. Why did you say that christianity is not a religion, do you no worship God or Jesus? Forgive me, I am not too versed in christianity!

I am going to create a new thread concerning the debate we had today.

The non-muslims at my work were very attack minded today. I think they won the debate since they were more prepared and there were more of them.

@maclatunji


Thanks for all your help. You have been very helpful.

However, I still need more to correct my riba co-worker! He is a nightmare of a muslim. He actually said that the Quran is wrong on riba! I stat to wonder if one can live in the west and still be a devout muslim.

I am going to reread your links and search for more knowledge.

bukatyne: u re welcome! i'm 100% sure! a born again christian would still face d same challenges. why d question?

No. Christians do not face the same challenges. You people are very flexible with your religion. We can see this in how christians can fit their religion into a capitalistic model which is materialistic at its core

LagosShia: Please there is a difference between capital punishment and terrorism.the former is established by a knowledgeable Islamic scholar who specializes in Islamic law.

Talking about terrorism,the west have sponsored and still collaborate with terrorists who later on would "bite the hand that fed".then the west would use them to tarnish the image of Islam.

Please see these:
https://www.nairaland.com/863512/hilary-clinton-confesses-funded-wahhabis

https://www.nairaland.com/961495/timeline-sectarian-terrorism-against-shia

As for the case of salman rushdie,the first of a series of attack on the sanctity of islam,rushdie cannot deny the fact he knew what he was writing and the angry reaction of muslims.the british intelligence who can even count how many times you use your toilet seat know well how insulting Islam would result.the question is who's to be held accountable for the deaths that resulted during protests?

So do you agree that we should not put the death penalty on Salman Rushdie?

This is another thing that puts my faith in confusion. Why do we muslims run to conspiracies when discussing simple issues? I returned from todays debate heartbroken again! The non-muslims made fun of us. Some of our debaters, especially those with proper Arab roots were running into conspiracies rather than debating the subject at hand. "the West this, the West that". I had to contribute and tell them to focus on the issue- blasphemy and apostacy and pluralism.

I agree with your comments on riba but why are you bringing the west and Hilary clinton into this? I know that the West attacks muslims but that is not the issue here.

LagosShia: Brother you're welcome!

On the issue of rushdie,anyone who thinks that rushdie sat and wrote a book on his own imagination and power is deluded.rushdie's book was facilitated and rushdie given support and protection by british intelligence.who were the ones protecting rushdie for years under tight security like an head of state? I don't think the british govt. Offer any ordinary writer or citizen what was offered to rushdie.

Also rushdie was born muslim and he didn't only blaspheme or apostacize.he abandoned Islam and then went to the enemy camp to assault Islam and attack the muslims.that is treason and in any islamic state it carries the death penalty.you do not defect to an "enemy state" and declare open enmity against your own people and question the character of your "head of state" and then pretend suprise if sentenced to death in absentia.

The war they cannot win with their planes and bombs against islam by subduing muslims,they're using the pen to try to destroy Islam and destroy the faith of muslims.the pen is indeed mightier than the sword as Prophet Muhammad (sa) stated.the pen is being used as a weapon.

If I may ask,who really organize these religious debates in a work environment and to what end? I don't think religion should be taken to work.it will only create more tension and bad feelings.

The debates at work is not just about religion. The debates are on the current issues facing the world. The anti-islamic film just happens to be the current issue.


Concerning Salman Rushdie, his book was fiction. He did not get protection until there was a death penalty on his head. Rushdie is wrong but trying to kill him is unislamic. All
Rushdie did was to write a book. He does not have an army of followers protesting Islam or does he have some political party that goes around bashing Islam?

I am a Muslim but I can never support death for apostasy or blasphemy under any circumstances. The only reason to kill is for physical self defence or sometes punishment for murder.


Please, I respect your opinion. However, unless you can show me what Rushdie has done to physically harm one Muslim, you are no different from those unislamic fake clerics that will not put the death penalties for tyrannical Islamic leaders who kill innocent Muslims but will target kaffir for words.

Islam has already been given a bad name as a violent religion. When I see Muslims chanting for death of kaffir just because of insulting words towards Islam, it breaks my heart. Every life is a blessing from Allah. To kill a kaffir for his insulting words is to accept that Allah can not change the kaffirs heart. We should only punish those who punish others.