AbdulSleek's Posts
Nairaland Forum › AbdulSleek's Profile › AbdulSleek's Posts
 Islam › Re: Non-muslims Vs Muslims Debate At Work! by AbdulSleek(op): 8:06pm On Oct 12, 2012 |
maclatunji: Why did you make that mistake? Your arrogance. I created a WHOLE thread for you to understand my point. Yet your arrogance prevented you from learning anything and you would still be satisfied in your arrogant ignorance had I not pointed it out to you.Look, you failed to help me on the riba issue and then I stopped taking you seriously. I only glanced at your thread and thats why I made the mistake. Why would you do all that for me? |
| Islam › Re: Non-muslims Vs Muslims Debate At Work! by AbdulSleek(op): 7:24pm On Oct 12, 2012 |
LagosShia: Your last sentence in the above says it all of who you truly are.it was a slip but enough to expose your fake identity.hahahahahahahahahaha! Are you and Maclatunji brothers? Both of you claiming some kind of petty victories over nothing. I was referring to the muslims on this site since I am still a newbie. I dont have friends on this site. They are your fellow muslims. Please, can I ban you and Maclatunji from giving advice on islam? |
| Islam › Re: Non-muslims Vs Muslims Debate At Work! by AbdulSleek(op): 6:36pm On Oct 12, 2012 |
maclatunji: *Yawns* What you don't know is that there are Islamic rules even with formulas that guide trade and economics in an Islamic trade. These coupled with Islamic social welfare laws will bring prosperity (God-willing) to any nation that adopts them. You don't have to believe anything for this to be a valid point. I just felt like clipping your wings. Having done that, I will choose how and when I reply to you hereafter.Yet, such a nation has never existed. You didnt clip my wings. I made a honest mistake about which Umar you were talking about. If you are happy and gloating over such a small mistake, you then are a small man. I have seen people complain about your unnecessary banning. Do you ban people to make up for your inadequacies? Is it a psychological thing? |
| Islam › Re: Non-muslims Vs Muslims Debate At Work! by AbdulSleek(op): 6:34pm On Oct 12, 2012 |
LagosShia: And Mr. AbdulSleek still wonder why people think he's "logicboy" aka "MacDaddy".Have I argued about slavery in any of my posts? I was telling maclatunji that he mentioned slavery in his thread. You never fail to live up to you dreadful reputation. Even to your fellow muslims finding you repuslive |
| Islam › Re: Non-muslims Vs Muslims Debate At Work! by AbdulSleek(op): 4:43pm On Oct 12, 2012 |
maclatunji: LWKMD! LMFSO! LOL! LWTMB! ROTFL! Hahahhahhahhahhahahahaaaaaaaaaaaa![size=18pt]Sorry, I was thinking of `Umar ibn Al-Khattāb. Apologies. [/size] Now, unto Umar Bin Abdul Aziz. 1) His reign was only 3 years. I could pick the last 3 years of Bill Clinton and claim that he was the Best president of America. 2) The claims about Umar in your links are nonsensical. Where is the evidence backing the claims of the income that Umar made? 124 million dirham? a) How did he make such money? Taxation? b) How much in real terms did he make? 124 million dirams could mean a lot but it could have been only worth 20,000 dollars considering the limited things money could buy in those times 3) There was slavery in his regime, according to your link (SLAVES WERE MENTIONED TWICE). He was killed by a slave according to your link. Imagine that he would have lived longer if he had freed all slaves? hmm? How can you even use 8th century economics for today? The world population has grown to 7 billion, people live longer and international competition has increased (globalization) You are living in an Arab delusionof the past |
| Islam › Re: Islamic Civilisation, Islamic Law And Reforming The Islamic Society. by AbdulSleek(m): 4:01pm On Oct 12, 2012 |
tbaba1234: ^ If they know, what i have learnt... they will have all the evidence they need...You will remember what I have told you in the future. We didnt grow up in the internet age. Our children will |
| Islam › Re: Non-muslims Vs Muslims Debate At Work! by AbdulSleek(op): 3:52pm On Oct 12, 2012 |
maclatunji: People like you amuse me. You learn a few things and think you know everything. Here is what you requested for: The quintessential Islamic state thus far in human history https://www.nairaland.com/1072849/umar-ii-template-how-islamic .Arab delusion again. Umar was a great leader but these tales of him are over-inflated and exaggerated claims. Ironically, notice that "slave" is mentioned in the story. So slavery was a normal thing under Umar's regime? You forget the great famine that fell on his people in 638? Hav you heard of a famine in the USA? |
| Islam › Re: Non-muslims Vs Muslims Debate At Work! by AbdulSleek(op): 9:03am On Oct 12, 2012 |
newken: I Love Abdulsleek.While I am flatttered at the praise, you should be careful on how you talk about the Quran and Muslims. I dont know much about Maclatunji's moderation but I agree that his arguments have more holes than an arabic teabag |
| Islam › Re: Islamic Civilisation, Islamic Law And Reforming The Islamic Society. by AbdulSleek(m): 9:01am On Oct 12, 2012 |
tbaba1234: A muslim means one who submits; We hear and obey the command when it comes... we will not always understand it. The first line to cross is to be convinced that this book could not have come from a man and the prophet (Peace and blessings be upon him) could not possibly be a liar. After that, the rest is easy... The big question is, Is this the truth? Why am i following it?The above quote summarises all you have been saying. You say that you are going to have kids. If your kids are going to grow up in the west, it will be difficult for you to tell them what I hve just quoted from you when they are 18 years old. The West is moving towards a society based on science and numbers. Where is the evidence for your claims. The USA VP debate was on last night. Both candidates were asking "where is the evidence for that?" |
| Islam › Re: Islamic Civilisation, Islamic Law And Reforming The Islamic Society. by AbdulSleek(m): 8:55am On Oct 12, 2012 |
tbaba1234: I read that some people are suggesting that you are logicboy... I hope not!!Do you honestly believe that you have been talking to an unbeliever? Seriously? |
| Islam › Re: Non-muslims Vs Muslims Debate At Work! by AbdulSleek(op): 8:47am On Oct 12, 2012 |
maclatunji: Are you done showing your extreme myopia? You that can't spell "dumb" have little to offer than your jaundiced view of the issues and the world.The first bold is a lie. Please show me that Islamic state that was operating efficiently- where is the evidence for such? A delusion of Arab superiority! The second bold is another lie. If you had basic sense of economics, you would know that all economic growths are artificial due to the artificial value we place on money. Money is only paper and gold is only a rock before we place values on them. I had a debate with Tbaba, he is quite knowledgeable. You can learn from my comment to him; AbdulSleek: You fail to understand that money itself is artificial. Your monthly increase in money (your salary/income) is therefore articial. Money is paper. The value given to paper is not real. It is based on inflation, interest rates and demand/supply calculations which are based on assumptions.https://www.nairaland.com/1068269/islamic-civilisation-islamic-law-reforming#12500291 Please, I have told you not to give advice on economic matters if you dont understand economics. Please. With all due respects. |
| Islam › Re: Non-muslims Vs Muslims Debate At Work! by AbdulSleek(op): 9:11pm On Oct 11, 2012 |
Sister fatie: well its hard. I'm only 18 still in the university besides my father would most likely kill me if he found out which isd what pple like lagos shia would also do, so i'm stuck in the closet. I have to pretend to believe in god, go to ,mosque etc. It's like hell.I really think that you are in a diffcult position. How are you even going to get married? Personlly, I know that it would be difficult for you to marry a muslim man based on your beliefs. I live with many non-muslims. The women say that they will never tolerate a man that expects them to be covered up in public or a man that can engage in polygamy etc. My best advice to you is to find some independence. Keep your beliefs to yourself and try to find a job or a source of income that can gain you that independence after your studies are over. When you finally gain that independence, you can do whatever you want to do. As a muslim man, I should be telling you to come back to your faith but I am losing my faith as well. I have seen numerous muslim parents threatening their 18-20 year old daughters not to try to be sexy or date non-muslims. They forget that they live in a secular country. The Quran (Sura 4) is greater than the UK law. A 20 year old woman is an adult, expecially in a secular country. To me, it is like racism. A muslim woman can not get married to an unbeliever. When did we become superior to non-muslims? When they call us intolerant, we complain. |
| Islam › Re: Islamic Civilisation, Islamic Law And Reforming The Islamic Society. by AbdulSleek(m): 9:03pm On Oct 11, 2012 |
tbaba12345: The reason you do not eat pork as a muslim is not because of some health reasons... It is because it is direct commandment from God, any health benefits are secondary... It is reason why you do not take Usury or Interest, direct commandment from God... Your adherence depends on your conviction that this is the word of God...I'm quite impressed. You diagnosed my problem very well. Unlike Maclatunji and LagosShai that cant even handle debate against non-muslim point of view without exploding into anger and inferiority complex. If you have read my threads, yoo will see that I am having problems with my faith. As a finance man, I am trained to make logical decisions based on evidence (numbers). Now, how can Allah give a command that is not logical? There is logic in many commandments in the Quran. However, there are commandments I struggle with. Even something as simple as pork? Seriously, I have never eaten pork in my life but what is the reason behind such? Well cooked pork is the same as well cooked beef after they have both been trimmed. What reason can anyone give me? Concerning your threads on the Quran, they are interesting to read. There is much wisdom in the Quran, no doubt about that. My issue is the problem with certain commands. I have lived with western christians and unbelievers most of my life. Many of them live by simple rules that hardly leaves them in a contradictory position. We muslims have rules that are ridiculous to non-muslim. I think many muslims havent tried Dawah in the west and so, they havent seen how our rules can be easily ridiculed. Concerning the muslims around me, what I find in my workplace is that out of every 3 muslim co-workers/ clients, one is actually a fool when it comes to islam. they dont even know about their religion but complain about Kaffir. Tell them to explain their actions with the help of the Quran and they would be repeating what the imam said rather than opening the Quran online for themselves. Now, I dont classify you as one of those fools that doesnt know what is in the Quran. Yo know your stuff excellently! I an tell that you have a lot of experience discussing these issues. However, I dont know if you live with many non-muslims and can see where I am coming from? |
| Islam › Re: Non-muslims Vs Muslims Debate At Work! by AbdulSleek(op): 2:42pm On Oct 11, 2012 |
Sister fatie: @op. What u r goin thru is what a lot of us atheist/agnostics go thru b4 rejecting religion. You are beginning to see how horrible every religion is. Infact xtianity is more intolerant dan islam but xtians are more tolerant than muslims. Besides alot of muslims on nairaland are delusional they seem to think dat saudi arabia and iran are the ideal states when they are both failed. In order to aid ur decision making question all religions u are aware of den u would realize dat they are all made up to fight mans fear of his motality.An ex-muslim woman in Nigeria? How do you cope? Its not like the UK where apostacy or atheism is tolerated? |
| Islam › Re: Islamic Civilisation, Islamic Law And Reforming The Islamic Society. by AbdulSleek(m): 4:11pm On Oct 10, 2012 |
tbaba12345: First of all, you should be interested in studying why the Quran is so incredible than bothering yourselves with those kinds of threads because i am a bit worried with the kinds of things you venture into..I dont censor knowledge. The problem with many muslims is that they have no idea what the non-muslims really think about them. As a muslim, I dont eat pork. Now, think of a non-muslim who is a sportsman and has been eating pork since he was born. You expect that non-muslim to just accept that it makes sense not to eat pork when he is healthier than you and successful? tbaba12345: - Answer already provided above: There is very few languages that compare to the classical Arabic that has survived till this day... The depth of the Quranic discourse and its nuances are kept intact.You must be kidding me. There is nothing special about classical Arabic. We should stop living in this Arab delusion. (We have many rich Arab clients in my company who act as if they are better than Westerners, when they have westerners managing their funds and IT solutions- why I call it Arab delusion) Try learning traditional Chinese or Sanskrit before you praise classical Arabic. Many historical texts have been translated into numerous languages. There will always be some difficulty in translations but sidenotes and footnotes are enough to explain deep philosophical writings. Please name something in the Classical Arabic that makes it special. I am sick of ignorant muslims in london telling me to learn Arabic- these same people that can not even explain basic passages in the Quran to children. tbaba12345: - Hajj is once in a life-time... There are many other opportunities to patronise a Nigerian tourist attraction, Besides, It is a pillar of the faith so we are required to do it once we can afford it..No probs. The question remains why it is a pillar. What do we gain in Saudi Arabia that we can not gain in Nigeria or is the Kaaba now something we must see once in our lifetime? tbaba12345: - Because the Quran is only the Quran in Arabic.... The depth of meaning of the Quran is horribly lost in translation... I started a thread where i an taking a journey through the Quran to show some of the things lost in translations: You might want to take a look... maybe you will understand why? https://www.nairaland.com/1007823/journey-through-quran-amazing-quranDid the Kaffir need to read the Quran in Arabic to complain that they cant marry our women? Abeg. Like I said, translations is difficult but there should be footnotes to explain difficulties. Should be enough tbaba12345: - Already answered earlier... The roots of many pagan faiths were originally monotheistic or show traces of montheism... So which is your true roots?What monotheism? When we have gods of water, gods of thunder? Shirk was the way of our ancestors. See how you are falling into the Kaffir's trap? Denying you own identity!  |
| Islam › Re: Islamic Civilisation, Islamic Law And Reforming The Islamic Society. by AbdulSleek(m): 4:11pm On Oct 10, 2012 |
tbaba12345: First of all, you should be interested in studying why the Quran is so incredible than bothering yourselves with those kinds of threads because i am a bit worried with the kinds of things you venture into..I dont censor knowledge. The problem with many muslims is that they have no idea what the non-muslims really think about them. As a muslim, I dont eat pork. Now, think of a non-muslim who is a sportsman and has been eating pork since he was born. You expect that non-muslim to just accept that it makes sense not to eat pork when he is healthier than you and successful? tbaba12345: - Answer already provided above: There is very few languages that compare to the classical Arabic that has survived till this day... The depth of the Quranic discourse and its nuances are kept intact.You must be kidding me. There is nothing special about classical Arabic. We should stop living in this Arab delusion. (We have many rich Arab clients in my company who act as if they are better than Westerners, when they have westerners managing their funds and IT solutions- why I call it Arab delusion) Try learning traditional Chinese or Sanskrit before you praise classical Arabic. Many historical texts have been translated into numerous languages. There will always be some difficulty in translations but sidenotes and footnotes are enough to explain deep philosophical writings. Please name something in the Classical Arabic that makes it special. I am sick of ignorant muslims in london telling me to learn Arabic- these same people that can not even explain basic passages in the Quran to children. tbaba12345: - Hajj is once in a life-time... There are many other opportunities to patronise a Nigerian tourist attraction, Besides, It is a pillar of the faith so we are required to do it once we can afford it..No probs. The question remains why it is a pillar. What do we gain in Saudi Arabia that we can not gain in Nigeria or is the Kaaba now something we must see once in our lifetime? tbaba12345: - Because the Quran is only the Quran in Arabic.... The depth of meaning of the Quran is horribly lost in translation... I started a thread where i an taking a journey through the Quran to show some of the things lost in translations: You might want to take a look... maybe you will understand why? https://www.nairaland.com/1007823/journey-through-quran-amazing-quranDid the Kaffir need to read the Quran in Arabic to complain that they cant marry our women? Abeg. Like I said, translations is difficult but there should be footnotes to explain difficulties. Should be enough tbaba12345: - Already answered earlier... The roots of many pagan faiths were originally monotheistic or show traces of montheism... So which is your true roots?What monotheism? When we have gods of water, gods of thunder? Shirk was the way of our ancestors. See how you are falling into the Kaffir's trap? Denying you own identity! |
| Islam › Re: Islamic Civilisation, Islamic Law And Reforming The Islamic Society. by AbdulSleek(m): 1:03pm On Oct 10, 2012 |
tbaba1234: This argument is based on a false premise that Islam mandates you to forgo your cultural practises... The only element of arabic culture a muslim adopts is the arabic language because the Quran was revealed in Arabic... Even at that, Arabic is at best a second or third language for the vast majority of muslims...Lets review the arguments made by non-muslims in the other religion section calling us "Arab slaves". -The Quran was revealed in Arabic at a time when there were more developed languages. Classic Chinese was already in existence before hundreds of years before classical Arabic. Why Arabic? What Hausa or Yoruba prophet was sent to Nigeria in the local language? -Hajj? Why are Nigerians going to Hajj when tourism is almost dead in Nigeria? Would it not make sense to have pilgrimage to all islamic states for more unity rather than Saudis deporting Nigerians like unwanted pigs? -Qibla? Why do muslims face Mecca when praying? Allah does not live in Mecca. Only prophet Muhammad (PBUH) lived in Mecca. We do not pray to the prophet but Allah. -Why do many muslims insist that one should learn Arabic to fully understand the Quran? Why must the muezzin "shout" (  ) in Arabic? Why not recite in English or spanish etc?-Isnt Islam a foriegn religion? How did islam come to Nigeria? At the end of the day, Nigeria was a pagan country- that was our true identity and history. 2 Likes |
| Islam › Re: Islamic Civilisation, Islamic Law And Reforming The Islamic Society. by AbdulSleek(m): 12:45pm On Oct 10, 2012 |
tbaba1234: The growth in a capitalist interest-driven economy is an artificial growth that is why there are always a recession after every few years; An economy without riba would not grow exponentially but its growth would be a lot more stable.You fail to understand that money itself is artificial. Your monthly increase in money (your salary/income) is therefore articial. Money is paper. The value given to paper is not real. It is based on inflation, interest rates and demand/supply calculations which are based on assumptions. The twenty dollars that you hold is just paper. Should The USA be destroyed in a war, your $20 reverts back to being only paper. If money, which is at the centre of any economic system is articificial, any economic system will have an artificial growth and not a natural one. Gold is twice what it was worth some years ago. What is the value of gold? Gold is just a yellow rock, it is quite useless considering othefr rocks that are used in construction. The value of gold is based on so many assumptions as well. Gold, like oil is a finite resource. What happens when most of the world's gold mines get dried up? Hyper-inflation! Even if you are talking about the gold standard system, it is still a monetary system that relies on the assumptions of demand and supply. Gold standard is quite useless where there is a scarcity of the metals. The Arab world would be at the mercy of China, Russia, USA and Australia. Your criticism of artificial growth applies to all economic system. It is looking for perfection where perfection doesnt exist. tbaba1234: The below explains more:Zakat is welfare. Welfare does not alleviate poverty. Many muslims live under the delusion that we can end poverty with welfare. While welfare helps the poor, it comes at a cost to the donors. There are more rich than poor in any society and the cost of welfare becomes a burden. The solution to poverty is both a welfare safety net and JOBS. If every able man had a means of income, there would be very little poverty whci would be finished off by welfare or Zakat. Your islamic solution will kill borrowing and investments because only few people would loan without profit or interest. Secondly, making money from idle investment is what made may americans rich today. Investments drive an economy. Your islamic solution will only reduce investment for a stavke growth that will still meet arecession with fewer rich people who can survive it! Labour can be very problematic in capitalism. Labour means production but to much labour means too much production costs. It is in the interest of the capitalist firm to balance out labour rather than provide labour for all. There is no 100% captialist nation. America would be at 95% captialist. European governments are seeing this problem and have many socialist programs whereby the government seeks to create labour through governmental organisations and investing in certain areas of the economy. There are private sector and public sector jobs. Some governments devleop a sector of the economy by owning and investing in it (creating public sector jobs)and then, when the sector is growing properly, they get private organisations to invest and particiapte, thereby creating private sector jobs.  tbaba1234: I am sorry the best economic system is NOT capitalism... absolutely not!!The usa is 95% capitalist while many European countries are 50% -90% capitlaist with their socialist poilices to balance out the failures of capitlaism. Capitalism ultimately puts power and resources into big firms and wealthy sucessful entreprenuers. Caopitalism creates a class system of bourgeois and the labourers. While it can provide a better standard of lving for the middle and upper class members of the society, it can create a perpetual cycle of poverty for the underclass. There exists a difference between "best" and "perfect". You are looking for a perfect economic system which does not exist. The global alcohol industry is over 10 billion dollars and it employs millions of people. Where would that be when sharia is fully implemented? Your islamic systemm will kill innovation. Everybody becomes hesitant to invest in a business due to the fear of it not being shaira compliant. How many islamic banks would invest in a scientific discovering the links between apes and human beings in order to understand evolution? How many islamic banks will invest in stem cell research? Sales of bikinis and tight fitting sportswear gone. Capitalism is not perfect but it is the best system that we know of. You are looking at America as a perfect example of capitalism but no, look at Central european countries that are a kind of mixed economy with capitalism at the forefront but socialist policies to counter the failures of cpaitlaism. tbaba1234: Now, I would go a little further... Because it seems you do not understand the evil in a usury based economy....Going back to your claims about mortagages. 1) You dont have to buy a house with mortgage if you have the money to pay for it in full. 2) There are fixed rate mortgages that you can calculate the total interest in which you will pay over the years. The problem with mortgage is that banks were selling mortgage packages who were ignorant and couldnt pay for the houses. There are mortgage packages for different incomes. Your islamic solution is just another way of describing a fixed interest mortgage package. What is the difference between selling a house at a 100% profit and selling a mortgage with interest that would yeild 100% profit? 1 Like |
| Islam › Re: Islamic Civilisation, Islamic Law And Reforming The Islamic Society. by AbdulSleek(m): 11:39am On Oct 10, 2012 |
Sorry for my aggressive tone of my comments. I was under the impression that you ignored my first comment because you didnt want to address the issues raised. I will address your replies apart from the one about evolution. We seem to agree on that one- we should be sensible in teaching the young ones. |
| Islam › Re: Islamic Civilisation, Islamic Law And Reforming The Islamic Society. by AbdulSleek(m): 11:01pm On Oct 09, 2012*. Modified: 7:43am On Oct 10, 2012 |
Furthermore, I can not help but notice that you ignored my first comment on this thread that had serious and useful questions. From my time here on his forum, I have learnt that some muslims here just say things or give advice on things that they do not fully understand. It is either that they blindly repeat what they are told by their imams or cleric or that they have half baked knowledge on the topic. Imagine someone who has no idea about the basics of economics giving me advice on riba! You talk about reforming the islamic society and growing islamic countries towards a golden age where we are contributing to science and development of mankind yet you offer no sound economic solutions to the problems many islamic countries face. Your ideas on education are half baked and you offer no sound advice on how these countries can create a more sensible relationship with the west. you onl barely scratched the surface about economics after I made my first comment on economics. Seriously, you post links to schools that teach memorization of the Quran and an islamic identity to students as if that qualifies as education. Yes the Quran is important to learn but there is huge knowledge outside the Quran. Take languages for example, Western children get exposed to many languages and many language courses at a young age. They chose langguages that they are comfortable with at a later age and learn them. This makes them global students as they can travel to foreign countries where these foreign languages aren used and learn from the foreign countries. It will shock you how little is translated from other languages such as Spanish, Dutch, Latin, Japanese, Chinese etc into Arabic. What are our children in the Arab world learning? Only French and English? We need schools that have curriculum that creates world class students. Going back to the issue of economics, what is the solution to our riba dependent muslim countries? This is something that I am researching into. I have noticed that you and some muslims bury their head in the sand like ostriches when it comes to problems like these. You want change but you dont want to tackle the hard issues! I am yet to find one islamic country that does not engage in riba with western countries. The question remains how do when get away from under the foot of western domination? I might not be able to give full solutions to this riba issue but the clear thing to do is to get governments of these islamic countries to focus on new sectors like the technology sector by investing in education in science/technology. Too many countries are oil and finance industry dependent. Technology is the way forward. Listening to Obama give a speech on the importance of dominating through technological knowledge and innovation inspired me. Investing in the technology sector can provide education and jobs for the local people/citizens. I dont want to write too much because I have so many ideas. However, it is good to dream of a better future but the main thing is to be practical about ones dreams. You want a better islamic civilization then be ready to address the challenges, even the difficult ones. Or else, you'll die as an idealist. 3 Likes |
| Islam › Re: Islamic Civilisation, Islamic Law And Reforming The Islamic Society. by AbdulSleek(m): 10:29pm On Oct 09, 2012 |
tbaba1234: There is no problem with studying the theory of evolution or the big ban g, we have to put everthing in its place. Infact, i think muslim have to learn them as well and how it relates to their faith.How can you say that there is no problem in studying evolution when you clearly do not accept that human being evolved from other animals? Do you now pick and choose evolution? This is why I said that teaching evolution is a trend thatwould be difficult in islamic communities. |
| Islam › Re: Islamic Civilisation, Islamic Law And Reforming The Islamic Society. by AbdulSleek(m): 8:00pm On Oct 08, 2012 |
Thanks for bringing up the issue of educating the masses. Education is necessary for development. An educated ummah is necessary if we truly want proper sharia to be established with the rise of the Islam civilisation. However, there is a trend in the western world and other advanced countries to teach atheistic theories in schools- especially in science classes. These theories of the big bang and evolution! I hope this trend does not follow to us! |
| Islam › Re: Islamic Civilisation, Islamic Law And Reforming The Islamic Society. by AbdulSleek(m): 5:00pm On Oct 08, 2012 |
While I agree with some of your post, I believe there are 2 issues that you did not address. 1) Economics While you addressed the politics and technological side of the Islamic civilization and how it can progress with an Islamic reform, you failed to address the growth of an economy or the importance of a strong economy. While it is great to establish a proper sharia system adhering to Islam as it was meant to be by the Quran and the prophet, the system can fall like a pack of cards if the economy of the sharia country is not strong. If there is unemployment, it can force the muslims to run to the west for a better life or jobs. If the islamic country is not manufacturing quality goods, the muslims become dependent on quality goods from the west. The clear question becomes; "how do we provide a strong economy that can compete globally based on the fundamentals of the Quran?". Unfortunately, the best economic system we know is capitalism. Capitalism like any other economic system is flawed but it is the only economic system that can produce enough quality goods to meet a diverse range of consumer needs. With respects to islam, capitalism is a system based on materialism, interest and importance of money. Capitalism is not perfect but is there any islamic economic system we know of? -Can we grow an economy without interest? Can a monetary system survive without fluctuation in its value (inflation necessitating interests?) -Can we create labour without the tools of captialism namely demand and supply? It is worthy to note that I am yet to find an islamic country that doesnt engage in riba in order to complete with the economies of the West. Should such countries stop the interest they receive from Western countries and face financial problems? 2) African Identity Your quote on this issue is very interesting. Tbaba: The most dangerous thing left by the colonizers was a mental colonization, the average algerian, tunisian or morocan today dreams of living in france or spain... We began to feel that the white man is better, smarter. This mental state is true of many african countries as well. We abandon our values and adopt the worst of western values.A counter argument has been made by non-muslims in the other section. They use the very same argument that you are using. The argument is that Nigerians abandon their own traditional identity to take a foriegn religion (they maintain that islam is an Arab religion). The average Nigerian muslim is ready to go to Mecca on hajj rather than promote tourism in Nigeria which is at a dilapidated state. I have to really ask myself. What is my true identity? Isnt Islam a foriegn religion, just like christianity to Nigeria? 4 Likes 1 Share |
| Islam › Re: I Am Having Troubles With My Faith In Islam. Please Help. by AbdulSleek(op): 9:32am On Oct 03, 2012 |
LagosShia: If Salman Rushdie is on my street and I can get hold of him,I am 3.3 million dollars richer!How shameless. 4 Likes |
| Islam › Re: Non-muslims Vs Muslims Debate At Work! by AbdulSleek(op): 9:31am On Oct 03, 2012 |
snubish: Q33:36(al Ahzab)My respects sir, you made some sense in your comments. Unfortunately, there are 4 problems with your claims 1)Muslims still debate on what Allah decrees (death for apostasy/blasphemy or not (Middle Eastern Vs Western muslims)? 2)You are not a muslim as well (Including LagosShia and Maclatunji) because you debate on decreed issue as well. (Riba is haram but I have been adviced by you people that it is acceptable in some situations. Did Muhammad (PBUH) teach us that)? 3) Adding to Allah's decrees. (The Quran does not tell us to kill those who write horrible cartoons of the prophet. The Prophet was insulted but did he kill? Honour killing, is it in the Quran?) 4) Difficult instructions in the Quran. Perfect example; inheritance laws in the Quran. ============================================================================================= 1) Muslims debating on what Allah decrees; What do we do with a thief that has been caught stealing twice or more? Do we cut the hands? In a westernn country, do we abrogate and use secular laws to imprison? What about an embezzling top politician caught stealing money more than 10 times during his regime? The male thief, and the female thief, you shall mark, cut, or cut-off their hands/means as a recompense for what they earned, and to serve as a deterrent from God. God is Noble, Wise. Whoever repents after his wrongdoing and makes amends, then God will relent on him. Truly, God is Forgiving, Merciful. [5:38-39] Some sharia practicing countries will cut off the hands of some thieves who are kleptomaniacs or unrepentant. Some will only imprison them. However, stealing politicians are hardly ever touched in this way. They are What do we do with dishonest and misbehaving wives? Some scholars say beat them lightly and leave no marks and some say only separate. Before, you claim the apologist lie that the Quran does not say beat lightly and there is no Quranic justification for beating or separation, please reread surah 4;34-36 and listen to https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XFIczvqcy0I ================================================================================================= 2) You (Snubbish, LagosShia and Maclatunji) all debate Allah's decrees. You are less of a muslim than I am. You fight against certain parts of the Quran -Riba is forbidden. Haraam. Yet you people say that it is okay to engage in it in certain sitautions. Arguing with Allah is a grave mistake https://www.nairaland.com/1058235/having-troubles-faith-islam-please#12320985 maclatunji: ^Salam Alaykum my brother, wow! I think I can identify with some of your dilemma.However, you need to understand stand Islamic injunctions are independent of people, even Muslims. So, whether some Muslims practise them (properly) or not, those issues remain valid. As for interest, it's quite possible that those Muslim countries have little or no choice because they won't be able to carry-out international trade without those interest bearing instruments. Another thing that has happened over the years is that western banks were using interest abandoned by Muslim governments to support causes, organizations, institutions and governments that were practically against Islam and Muslims. I have it on reasonable authority that this facilitated a review of many Muslims on the matter. LagosShia: So the bottom line is a muslim collecting or giving riba to another muslim is completely haram.[b]now when the situation involve non-muslims,the rule change.you're playing by their rules,so you may collect riba but you cannot give riba to a non-muslim.[/b]if the bank is owned by both muslims and non-muslims or in a country that is mixed of muslims and non-muslims the rule again change.Riba is haraam. End of story. There is no leeway given in the Quran for riba. Muslim countries should not charge riba from other non-muslim countries but they do and you are making excuses. What about Nikāḥ al-Mutʿah? The Shai have Quranic and hadith Justification for it but we Sunni reject it. فَمَا اسْتَمْتَعْتُمْ بِهِ مِنْهُنَّ فَـَاتُوهُنَّ أُجُورَهُنَّ فَرِيضَةً "Then give those of these women you have enjoyed the agreed dower" was revealed on the subject of the mut‘ah marriage." Shia Muslims have "consensus" (ijma) on interpretation of the following verse in the Quran. ================================================================================================================ 3) Adding to Allah's decrees -Stoning the devil is not legislated in the Quran -Killing for blasphemy (Which lagosShia loves a la Salman Rushdie and reaction to the movie) is not in the Quran ================================================================================================================= 4) Difficult instructions. Surah 4;11, 4;12 4;176 Inheriance laws do not add up to 100% or 1 3 daughters, both parents, my wife, then they will receive 2/3 (2/9 each) 1/3 (1/6 each) 1/8 according to verse 11 verse 11 verse 12 which adds up to 2/3 + 1/3 + 1/8 = 1 + 1/8 (I copied this from a website- too lazy to start doing the table myself) This is one example of a situation that will be difficult to share inheritance according to the Quranic laws. There have been many scholarly solutions, all of which adjust the stated proportions of each member of the family slightly. |
| Islam › Re: Non-muslims Vs Muslims Debate At Work! by AbdulSleek(op): 3:33am On Oct 03, 2012 |
maclatunji: Hug yourselfI did not know that it was halal to self-service. |
| Islam › Re: Non-muslims Vs Muslims Debate At Work! by AbdulSleek(op): 6:27pm On Oct 02, 2012 |
ayinba1: @abdulsleekLook! we have a tough guy here! Did not imply that calling women in Burkha or Niqaab "ninjas" is wrong by saying that I felt it was wrong? hmph! Who said that honor killing is in the Quran? I didnt say that. Get some sense. However, honour killing is a problem in our muslim community, at least in Europe (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honor_killing#Europe). When muslims deny this issue the kaffir just laugh. People do not have to insult you with words. There is derisive laughter and sighing. |
| Islam › Re: Non-muslims Vs Muslims Debate At Work! by AbdulSleek(op): 6:19pm On Oct 02, 2012 |
Why is everyone sharing hugs and avoiding the issue? Seems everyone is now rushing to say "Abdulsleek is not a muslim and therefore his statements are wrong". Quite a fallacious statement. |
| Islam › Re: Non-muslims Vs Muslims Debate At Work! by AbdulSleek(op): 6:17pm On Oct 02, 2012 |
F00028: lol...they would also need to ban Judaism. and we all know they wouldn't dare.Wrong. Judaism preceded Christianity. That much I know  Why not focus on the issue? |
| Islam › Re: Non-muslims Vs Muslims Debate At Work! by AbdulSleek(op): 4:32am On Oct 02, 2012 |
snubish: "well, I have to disagree with Allah then". |
| Islam › Re: Non-muslims Vs Muslims Debate At Work! by AbdulSleek(op): 3:54am On Oct 02, 2012 |
tpia@:I sound like a love-vendor? The macdaddy I know is a love-vendor in a television show. Please, I am not cocky and I am a muslim. I dont know why you are angry |
| Islam › Re: Non-muslims Vs Muslims Debate At Work! by AbdulSleek(op): 3:50am On Oct 02, 2012 |
wiegraf: Then you aren't a muslim...Are you serious? Please say something that makes sense or you can back up. Sir, I am a muslim even though I am having doubts |
