₦airaland Forum

LagosShia: Wa alaikum assalam wa rahmatullahi wa barakatuh!



Sincerely brother,being a muslim especially around non-muslims,especially the ones with prejudice and fanatical or evangelical christians isn't something easy if you don't have a strong will to confront them and make sure they don't bother you.based on what I can see from you explanation,the problem you're having is not with your work directly.its with keeping non-muslim friends.if these non-muslims treasure your friendship,there should be compromise.friendship like marriage has to do with compromise.anyone who is ready to avoid you is not worth your attention.are those you consider friends really your friends? Friends should care about the sensitivity of others.

Also,I see no reason why your company should cancel the get together for non-muslims.I think your company is just looking for an excuse to do that.I honestly think the non-muslims should continue their appointment every friday in the bar.remember the Quran says "there is no compulsion in religion".then another day can be chosen for the muslims to come together with no alcohol,and in which non-muslims can also participate.I'm sure not serving alcohol will not make them suffocate.alcohol is not air!

Another solution could be all of you go to the bar or may be a restaurant.then the muslims can have a table to their own without alcohol while the non-muslims have their table with alcohol.ofcourse that is based on the fact that we normally patronize restaurants,supermarkets and places alcohol is sold but we do not buy alcohol and we don't share table with those consuming it.

The second option needs self-control and knowledge in order that anyone of you people gathered there as muslims do not fall into temptation and end up embarassing the other muslims by wanting to try a sip of alcohol to the cheer and laughter of non-muslims.if among you there is a "weak link",then try the first option.


You raised a number of points in the above.

First you must educate yourself and may be your muslim friend too on the difference between riba collected on money and profit collected by trading an object.I am sure you will find many differences just by googling.

Also if your company engage in selling alcohol or gambling that doesn't concern you directly.you're not serving anyone alcohol by selling to him and you're not promoting it by displaying or supplying it.since you're in the finance department and you get to calculate bills,you're indirectly facilitating an alcohol business you have no choice on.now I am not an expert in islamic law and I am not a faqih.so my opinion are just opinions and you can further ask a faqih (islamic jurist) on such matters.but the general view I have come across is that you can work in a business environment dealing with alcohol if you have no saying in decision making,if you have no job to sustain yourself and family members.if your sustenance depends on the job,then work.but you should always be on alert to find a new job that does not deal in haram business.ofcourse that may be hard to find in a place like the UK.but if you come across a job that have no haram business in it,and that job can sustain your family even if the pay is less,then you should quit your current job.

The good thing about Islam and islamic laws is practicality.the Quran clearly states that Allah (swt) intends to place no burden upon us (through these laws).

As for the countries said to be collecting riba from banks in non-muslim countries I will deal on that further shortly.


Regarding the movie,I think this isn't a case of blasphemy or apostacy.in the Quran itself there is no stipulated punishment for either apostacy or blasphemy.the Quran clearly gives freedom to believe.the Quran states "let him who wills believe and let him who wills disbelieve".the context for punishing for apostacy or blasphemy most times is connected with treason,corruption or assault against the muslim society at large.when it reaches those stages,the matter is no longer confined to blasphemy on a personal scale/level by making fun for instance.it becomes on the societal scale where an individual case is used by the enemies of islam to undermine the faith and spread ill-intentions.the case of salman rushdie is an example.

So there is more to the issue than the way the westerners are made to believe by saying it is "freedom".also slander,defamation and insult cannot be "freedom of speech".you're not free to offend me.ofcourse violent reaction is not the means to react islamically.but not every muslim is an islamic scholar or literate at all and when emotions come in,muslims are humans too.anything can happen.




Based on the issue of collecting riba,you should understand one thing.Allah (swt) have placed provisions such as Khums and Zakat to ease the situation of the muslims and alleviate poverty in the muslim state.therefore collecting loans by a muslim from another muslim with the condition of interest is haram because whether you succeed in the purpose of collecting the loan or not you will still have to refund more than you are borrowed.that is actually also a difference between profit and riba-there is the factor of compulsion or obligation to more than you can bear even in outragious ways.

So the bottom line is a muslim collecting or giving riba to another muslim is completely haram.now when the situation involve non-muslims,the rule change.you're playing by their rules,so you may collect riba but you cannot give riba to a non-muslim.if the bank is owned by both muslims and non-muslims or in a country that is mixed of muslims and non-muslims the rule again change.

I am giving you these guidelines from my "marja-at-taqlid" who happens to be Ayatollah Ali Sistani and as a Shia Muslim.the sunni views may be the same,similar or slightly different depending on their interpretation.but I expect the Sunni view especially the salafist/wahhabi interpretation to be more inflexible and strict,and may be impractical from a Shia point of view.but all in all,whether sunni or shia,you should get a clearer idea about Islam generally.so I will leave you with questions and answers on riba in a post I previously made on nairaland quoting the views of Ayatollah Ali Sistani (it should give you insight as to why muslim countries may be getting interest from foreign banks in non-muslim countries) :

https://www.nairaland.com/259031/muslim-keep-fixed-deposit-account#10974518

Thank you for your input!

We are going to have a debate tommorow in the office again. Tommorow is the last Friday of the month. The topic is still on religion and blasphemy!


Concerning your reply, I am grateful for the info on RIBA. I am a Sunni muslim but your suggestions make sense. I am waiting for Maclatunji to help me find some countries that do not engage in RIBA. I want to correct my co-worker.



Salman Rushdie came up during the office debate and the non-muslims really defended him. I want to ask, why the death sentence on Salman Rushdie? He only wrote a book about the Satanic verses. I have always not supported blasphemy laws. Salman Rushdie should be called to correct his book but not killed or punished.



By the way, I cant quit my job. I am responsible for most of my family. It is a sad thing that I am left in a choice to engage in Riba.

maclatunji: I need time, will seek it to address you properly, Insha Allah.

No problem. Thank you very mych

sino: @Abdulsleek, may Allah strenghten your faith amin.

Living and working within a non-muslim environment comes with its challenges, some of these challenges are what you have just listed.

On the first issue on "bonding day", personally, i think your company is just trying to cut overhead cost and looking for an excuse for i believe they can find a better venue or exempt the muslims altogether. I reason with bukatyn's comment, calling your collegues and iron things out would go a long way in changing their minds.

On the second issue, "riba", i think you'll need an islamic scholar on this, you didnt start work in that section abi? and the company is not a bank or is it? your muslim collegue is just muddling things up, Allah Has made what is lawful in terms of profit and what is forbidden in terms of usury clear(Q 2vs 275). I think you should try islamqa and browse through their fatwa on working in finance or ask...

On the third, avoid such sensitive topics at work, if its to explain a certain islamic belief, i can do that but once it gets to arguments, i discontinue the discuss. I think its not healthy in an office environment.

May Allah be with you amin.

Thank you for your advice. May Allah reward you.

My company is not a bank. They carry out IT solutions to finance companies and they also engage in investments.

Concerning the bonding day, the company really can not find another place because we are on the high street next to shops and bars. There is no hall around us to meet that is near.

As for the riba, I thought I could get some answers here. Also, it is unfortunate that it is only such debates that we Muslims and non Muslim workers talk to each other. I don't agree with your suggestion to refrain from the debates as they are a good source of learning. I didn't know that the queen was the head of the English church. Also, the debates usually happens on Fridays when we finish early

bukatyne: @OP: i'm not a muslim but i believe that every one serious wit their faith ll face wat u re facing in one way or the other so i can relate wit u. i would advice that u learn wat is expected of u as a muslim and strive to follow it. however, wisdom is necessary and be considerate of everyone around u. u can also call ur fellow muslims and talk to them. a workplace is not a religious center and it is absurd to expect everyone to follow ur religious convictions. if u re not comfortable wit bonding in a bar(which i see no reason why u should be uncomfortable since u work in an alcoholic company), decide not to come for d party than depriving everyone else from having their fun. if ur religion doesn't agree wit something, u have to make that sacrifice and not others. it's not healthy when a group of pple are sidelined in a place of work. u can also call a general meeting and get ur fellow muslims to apologize to all the staff and explain ur reasons for not wanting d bonding party and decide in future to either make personal sacrifices yourselves or decide to participate in ways that it would not affect ur faith. God be wit u!

Thanks for your practical input. Are u sure u are not a Muslim?

bukatyne: @OP: i'm not a muslim but i believe that every one serious wit their faith ll face wat u re facing in one way or the other so i can relate wit u. i would advice that u learn wat is expected of u as a muslim and strive to follow it. however, wisdom is necessary and be considerate of everyone around u. u can also call ur fellow muslims and talk to them. a workplace is not a religious center and it is absurd to expect everyone to follow ur religious convictions. if u re not comfortable wit bonding in a bar(which i see no reason why u should be uncomfortable since u work in an alcoholic company), decide not to come for d party than depriving everyone else from having their fun. if ur religion doesn't agree wit something, u have to make that sacrifice and not others. it's not healthy when a group of pple are sidelined in a place of work. u can also call a general meeting and get ur fellow muslims to apologize to all the staff and explain ur reasons for not wanting d bonding party and decide in future to either make personal sacrifices yourselves or decide to participate in ways that it would not affect ur faith. God be wit u!

Thanks for your practical input. Are u sure u are not a Muslim?

maclatunji: ^Salam Alaykum my brother, wow! I think I can identify with some of your dilemma.However, you need to understand stand Islamic injunctions are independent of people, even Muslims. So, whether some Muslims practise them (properly) or not, those issues remain valid. As for interest, it's quite possible that those Muslim countries have little or no choice because they won't be able to carry-out international trade without those interest bearing instruments. Another thing that has happened over the years is that western banks were using interest abandoned by Muslim governments to support causes, organizations, institutions and governments that were practically against Islam and Muslims. I have it on reasonable authority that this facilitated a review of many Muslims on the matter.

Please know that most rules in Islam are not absolute and certain condition may alter their implementation. I am a little bit busy but just wanted to respond to you.

Thank you for your input. May Allah reward you.

I see your point in some Islamic countries not having a choice in engaging in Riba.
I still am concerned though, are there Islamic countries that you know of that do not engage in riba?

What do you mean by saying that rules in Islam are not absolute? My riba co-worker also said something similar

Salaam brothers and sisters,

I am not in a good place right now and I am having troubles with my faith. My name is Abdul and I am based in the UK. My problem with the faith started at work and it is really affecting me. I work in a multi-national firm with lots of employees from different religious backgrounds. Muslims are the minority there and I feel discriminated against but sometimes I feel guilty for the discrimination.

There are two major problems. The first one started with our bonding day (every last friday, the staff from our floor and department meet in a bar). The problem came when some of my fellow muslim workers challenged it because the bar is a place where alcohol is sold. The departments and floor have been doing this bonding day at the bar for over 7 years. The departments listened to us and cancelled the bonding day since there was no other place to meet and socialize that would be convenient. Many of the non-muslim workers were fed up with this change. The non-muslims stopped talking to all the muslim workers. There was even one of my sisters (a fellow muslim worker) that was crying in the toilet because none of the fellow workers came to her party again. they stopped. These people are very smart! they won't insult you in your front but they will keep a distance from you. I am a friendly guy and I still had some freinds. But the problem did not end there. There was a worker that was fed up with the change and complained bitterly about not meeting at the bar. He said that muslims were intolerant that they should not go to the bar if they did not want to meet there. He also said that there were christians who didnt drink but enjoyed the bar and that only muslims cause problems. We complained about his attitude and he was suspended. When this happened, it was the final straw, all our non-muslim workers just avoid us. It is painful when you see people going out of their way to avoid you. I dont know how to deal with this issue and I do not want to quit my job.


The other problem is when I got promoted to the finance section (on the same floor). My company engages in riba as they invest in shares of alcohol companies, gambling and any company that can return a heavy profit. I had to do some finance courses to be promoted to the finance department. I had to ask a fellow muslim how he was comfortable with such activites. My muslim brother gave me a shocking answer. He said that anyone that knows finance and the Quran knows that the Quran is wrong about riba. He said that there is no islamic country that does not have interest in foreign accounts just like the rest of other countries. He also said that only an illiterate will complain about interest because interest and profit are similar terms. He said that there is no difference in charging interest rate that will yeild 50% profit and charging someone with an upfront sale price that will yield a 50% profit. All profit is cheating because you sell more than what a product is worth. I was totally shocked but after some research, his argument seems true. concerning the alcohol and gambling, he said that he does not drink or gamble so he can not be held responsible. He also said that unless Allah wants him to be jobless

Again, another issue is this reaction to the anti-islamic movie. We had a big debate at work. The non-muslims were saying that there should be no punishment for blasphemy and apostacy while some of us muslims were arguing that it is not a right to insult and cause offence. Personally, I listened to the argument and as a Nigerian muslim, I believe that there should be no punishment for apostasy or blasphemy. Me and my co-worker friends used to make fun of christians and their 3 in 1 god. I can not ask for someones punishment when I am guilty of the same thing. Another point was made that the Quran itself will be classed as blasphemy to christians if christians were to have blasphemy laws in the UK. They believe that Jesus (PBUH) is a god. We muslims say that he is a prophet.


My issues at work are stressing me. Some of my non-muslim co-workers avoid me and other fellow muslims as if we are terrorists. The riba issue and how my friend that is a muslim is saying that the Quran is wrong about riba is, also affecting me. How can the Quran be wrong? And why are islamic countries using interest in foriegn accounts and firms? The countries I checked were Iran (oil in foreign exchange reserves), Saudi Arabia and Pakistan.

Please, I need advise on these issues.

Salam Alaikum everyone! I am Abdul and I am happy to say that I have learnt a lot from this forum. I have been watching as a visitor and I am thankful that I found Nairaland after searching randomly for news in Nigeria.

Alhamdulillah