₦airaland Forum

Pennywise: The resistance you are getting from Nigerians and the NUC even from the reverred Prof mentioned above is on account of the undeserved title. That is the unstated fact. PharmD can be declared min qualification requirement to practice pharmacy in Nigeria and it will be well received by all. But they cannot be regarded as doctors because they are not. They are not PHD pharmacy (those will be offended) and they are not doctors. Call them whatever. Architects who spend 6yrs in training are not called doctors why should pharmacy undergraduate program be so referred? Optometrists similarly went shopping around certain parts of the globe for justification and they came back and shot their program to 6yrs calling all optometry graduates doctors!! Its only a matter of time like I said bf physiotherapists, lad scientists and nurses follow suit.

Somebody within the NUC must have decided that this crazy obsession must stop. I doubt if the NMA is in anyway involved. If you have 100 doctors in this forum, you will have 100 different opinions. They are disorganized. It is wrong to think they masterminded this position of the NUC in anyway. People give them way too much credit than they are due.

So the ones that study optometry are not called doctors? The MBBS graduates we call doctors have PhD? And how do architects and pharmacists even correlate? Are you this dumb? You say we spend 6 years in school and want to be called 'doctor', how many years do MBBS graduates spend? Is not 6 years?

Those ones that studied pharmacy abroad should not be referred to as doctors?


Okay, the doctor thing is painful shey? I'm very sorry about that! When it is approved, u can swallow a bottle of methanol and ease your frustration. Oops!!

[quote author=s!s! afrika]To d issue at hand, me thinks the problem is from 'inside'. The pharmacy profs and academia re d one behind the failure of d program, else hw will external force determines wat goes on inside if d insider demselves aren't non-challant?
I read a printed chat where a prof in pharmacy was interviewed abt d pharm.d program nd honestly his replies showed dry show they don't want it. It was just too obvious depiye his euphemism.[/quote]U're very correct!

Buh effort is been made to correct this at PCN level.

eazydoc: pls pharmacists thank U oooooo! pls do not interact with our patients. U arent trained for that or for treating them. U dont go through wot we go through academically or psychologically. have U ever noticed that all doctors more or less behave the same way? have U ever wondered why? una think say e dey easy? if you want to interact with a patient, pick a JAMB form fill medicine and sign your life away. either that or wait for your friend or family to become sick. dont want to hear this nonsense anymore. mchew, rubbish. doctor indeed. pls cc. labscientists, attendants, community health workers

Shey na wetin dem dey follow u talk be that? Funny people!!

What do you go through academically in school that say we shouldn't go to the patients bedside to talk to him about his drug? We are not trying to usurp ur authority or diagnose or even perform surgery!!


Smh!!!

Dnaz: maybe dey want to do Obs n Gyn, paediatrics, medicine n surgery

Don't be derogatory. Use ur brain. We're vying for better services, you should do the same too!

We don't want to go to India no more, when we pay medics in naija doing nothing, don't let me open that topic oo!!!

armadeo: Please elaborate.











i assume this is the answer to my question. Let me pose another shouldn't you also be busy doing something else err i dunno like giving out drugs than going to a patients bedside and counselling e.g his lifestyle?


it is my belief that as a pharmacist you probably dispense hundreds of prescriptions a day. you can do a world of good by ensuring that the patient understands the prescription and dosage of medication to take. you have also interacted with the patient.

Whoever told you I'm the only pharmacist in the whole hospital must have misinformed you. We interact the patient at both places but emphasis been placed at the bedside this time.

Ur question would be the headache of the Chief Pharmaceutical Director or Director of Pharmaceutical services of the hospital. He'll determine the number of staffs he needs, he determines who sees the patients and who dispenses, he determines who visits the A&E patients or who sees the HIV patients. He surely knows how to do his Job, emphasis here on number of staff.

Moreover, Pharm techs could be employed to do the dispensing and the pharmacist would just scrutinize and counsel. Cheers.

Samakinr: ...'i think you may want to check this out. You will find more info to support your arguments...
http://www.indeed.com/forum/job/pharmacist/BS-Pharmacy-vs-PharmD/t62854

Well, there you have it. It's ur choice now..

Samakinr: ....okay...'i got it. The PharmD is the only degree that will label you as a professional pharmacist... Truth you are right. I got my info wrong. I was actually mistaking the UK systems with the US'....BUT adeola, dnt you think there may be difficulty in career progression in this our pharmacy?... I really want to go into this drug production and research...bt the US gives preference to Biochemists and chemists for a career in medicinal chemistry...rather than the PharmD nt to even talk of the Bpharm. Holy spirit help me

If that's what you want, carry go! There's no stopping you. A pharmD degree won't stop u from going into drug production and research, it's ur birthright as a pharmacist and no one can take it away from you.

If u feel an M.phil or PhD would give u better recognition, then fine!

I don't understand how a chemist or biochemist would be given preference.

zeezahbee: wow, greatest oouite. are you currently in sagamu ? i thought you grad already with your posts. well you must be so intelligent

Lol, m going to sagamu tomorrow.. Thanks.

zeezahbee: Ewwww, abeg are you a pharmacist ? So you mean with a pharm D or B.pharm, no pharmaceutical company will employ me until I have a Masters or PHd in chemistry, biochem or biotech. Haba, does that correlate. This biochem or biotech grad are used as back up in pharmaceutical companies secondly, who told you the idea behind pharm D was for clinicals alone, even with your PHarm D you can still work in an industry. Be careful oo

Leave the people who think they know pharmacy more than the pharmacists themselves.

They don't know u need a certain amount of clinical knowledge to be successful industry. It's not just about triturating or following protocols.. Ignoramuses!

Samakinr: ....if have been agreeing with you all this while, but give me one reason why you actually think the B Pharm is OUTDATED. That's really my problem...it's not even outdated in the US we are copying. PharmD has been on in the US since 1970 and yet the B Pharm is never labelled as outdated. Adeola, jxt see it like this, PharmD for clinically oriented pharmacists and the B pharm for the manufacturers, researchers, and quality controls....so i actually hate you label the B pharm as outdated. Give us respects, that's my second degree

My brother, I'll take time to go through that link. I find it hard to believe that B.pharm still exists in the US, Pharm zeezahbee, is this true?


What I learnt is that b.pharm has been phased out in the US. If it exists, then why do u need a conversion program to work as a pharmacist in the US?

Until I learn otherwise, for me it's outdated.

obayaya: So you want to tell me that you were taught the pharmacology and delivery mechanism of all the millions of drug out there?

And how come the guy in the post you referred me to who is a senior pharmacist didn't know about that of the neurological drugs?

Talk about contradictions

He's a pharmacist who specialized in CVS/Renal disease. He was only asking for pharmacists who specialized in neurology to fly in and join him. If u read that post well, he mentioned the disease states that correlated to his specialty. Somehow, I get ur point though!

Buh u're very wrong on the pharmacology and drug delivery mechanism. We were taught all those, but it takes specializing to become a force in any field be it HIV or infectious disease or paediatrics.

zeezahbee: Adeola you grad from OOU right?

I'm a 300L student there..

obayaya: Yeah I saw that post. And to be honest, that isn't enough reason for the Pharm.D switch. It doesn't justify it whatsoever.
Now let's look at it this way, Pharmacist aren't taught the pharmacology and delivery mechanism of all the drugs out there (like the neurology drugs you talked about in that post) during their B.Pharm and neither will they be able to cover all areas even after the introduction of the Pharm.D.

Let's face it. This are things you learn relative to where you find yourself and as a result of your quest for self improvement.

Is there any legislation right now in the hospitals that prevent pharmacist from escorting doctors on ward rounds or reading up on a particular area and asking questions from someone that knows? Absolutely not.

I'm sure fresh Pharm.D graduates in the US wouldn't know all those neurology drug stuffs in details except maybe the basics they learnt in the course of their program.

The Answer to all these is self improvement. Ppl who wish to improve will improve. And if maybe there are companies involved in the production of Neurological drugs here in Nigeria, I'm sure they'll need loads of pharmacist who'll research and in turn gain all these knowledge about neurology.

like I said in a post earlier, this is what PCN should be looking at. Modalities for Pharmacists to be involved in ward rounds and encouraging research and establishment of real pharmaceutical companies. not all these drug importation ventures.

U said this..

Pharmacist aren't taught the pharmacology and delivery mechanism of all the drugs out there

U must be smoking some exotic weed ryt!

Ur latter post is true to an extent, buh trust me the degree give u a lot of proficiency that the outdated bpharm won't give.

Evergreen123: Sorry then,
Everybody can't/shouldn't work in any location, its just like a doctor choosing to work at the lavatories cos he likes the smell of toilet.
He should just join the janitorial team and everybody will be happy.
In the same vein, bed side is for doctors and nurses and then physiotherapists who have immobile patients in the ward like stroke patients.
So, u can as well start nursing school .......

Okay ma'am..


Lastly, healthcare is in a triad. As proposed by hepler and strand. Goan read more.

Samgreguc: bros, y must u na? With ur O'level u go proceed to do pharmacy for 3yrs? Haba mana brossss. . .

Lol

Evergreen123: False,
doctors do that during ward rounds and clinics, or y do u think we spend time in ward rounds/clinics?
Even if doctors were not doing it before, its a doctors job cos there are many things u discuss with a patient, aside his disease and medications; there are lab results and interpretations, nursing care to supplement what nurses do, and so on.
Even lab scientists forward the px results to the doctors for interpretation, not that they cant explain it to the patient but its the doctors job, the doctor is supposed to coordinator of the findings of the nurses, lab scientists and physiotherapists from the patient.
From ur argument, nurses and med lab scientists should also come to the wards for ward rounds .
Again, I believe that u can start the help with those u meet at the counter too, if u so wish.

U're so funny! Doctors do all those? With the loads of people on queue to see the doctor? Who is talking about Lab scientists? PharmD pharmacists offers interpretation of lab results too.. So?

And there's nothing wrong with nurses going on ward round to. All these won't usurp the doctor's authority, he has the final say. It's called teamwork.

Samakinr: ....you're really a nigerian, deficient of information. Salary in other parts of the world is often a reward of what you can do, not for the degree you are holding...

Guyyy! U wicked oo

obayaya: Will you just shut up your dirty mouth.

B.Pharm is a 5 years program with 1 year housemanship. What difference will a 6 year program that includes 4 years basic pharmaceutical studies and 2 years so called clinical training make.

The truth is that Nigeria like copying things without proper review and appraisals.

Will the Pharm.D certificate make our pharmacists better? Or is it just some desperate attempt to be like every other person else?

That's the question my post you quoted raised. but you were too _stupid to understand.

Go back to page 1. I dropped a post there about a neurology ward round and the need for a pharmacist.. Goan read it..


The benefit of been clinically loaded cuts across all aspects of the pharmacy profession. From the industry to the community to the hospital. I hope I can come up with analogies later to support my point.

obayaya: All these doctors vs pharmacist battle for supremacy is really disgusting.
IMHO pharmacy is a more noble profession than medicine because one drug discovered and produced by a pharmacist saves millions of lives at a time whereas a doctor's diagnosis and surgeries will only save one person at a time and he'll also rely on the drugs produced by the pharmacist to save this person.
That said, this Pharm.D whatever is so wrong and uncalled for and will drag pharmacy back.
I'm neither a doctor nor pharmacist tho
You promised me a data when you come back from church ma'am

I'm a guy jor!

Yeah.. Can't even remember what that was sef. Lemme check.

Evergreen123: @ adeola_drg, if pharmacists don't wanna do only dispensing, u and I know that pharmacy embraces a lot of job opportunities but Nigerian pharmacists just wanna fixate on patients only ........

U're wrong again here. How would u say that? Diff strokes for diff folks. A lot of my classmates want to work in a pharm industry, I seem to be the only one for now and a few senior colleagues that is interested in hospital pharmacy. We've focused on the drugs for years, it's time to move on. Emphasis on BEDSIDE of the patient.

Evergreen123: OK,
But the same patients present to u at the counter, what's the difference?
And has anybody stopped pharmacists from interacting with doctors and nurses?

There's a difference. How much time do doctors have to go to the patients bedside, and take time to talk to the patients about diff things, his medication, his lifestyle, knowledge about his disease states and all. This is what the pharmacist offers and pharmD only makes sure he's clinically loaded to help the patient. Tell me something else.

Evergreen123: Y on earth will a doctor be threatened by a pharm.D certificate, the more u guys say these tnz, the more doctors shake their heads on you.
MBBS incorporates clinical pharmacology 10x and a host of other tnz.
Even in the advanced countries, pharmacists are confined to drugs and not patients, ranging from dispensing in hospitals to industrial work.
Everybody should mind their business

U're wrong here ma.. Pharmacists are not confined to just drugs. Let Google be ur friend plsss

I expected the doctors to infiltrate this thread. Cool something!


Buh for how long is the hatred continue? Most y'all will go and work abroad and have no option but to work with the pharmacist. They don't just sit and dispense there.


Okay the national conference voted against the surgeon general thing and the pharmacists were jubilating. Tho I gave them a piece of my mind, it's very wrong and unhealthy.

Let this hatred stop plsssssssss.

Evergreen123: Name your beer brand, I will deliver it to you.

U're one brilliant doctor I respect on NL. I'm surprised u still don't get the gist!

Forget the drug Lord name. Pharmacists don't just want to sit and dispense no more. That's so last century!!! We want to interact with the patients, doctors and nurses in the wards. Our mates everywhere is into this already, just naija!

eagleu: You know you lie. Have you even been to the USA?
Many schools offer Pharm B and Pharm D, and even some only Pharma B

it beats my imagination when people come and say things like this.


PharmD has been the minimum requirement for the registration of pharmacists in the US for a long time now. Since the 80s! Get ur fact right!

Shori: Tsk! Pharmacy students take Biochemistry,Anatomy,Pharmacology and Physiology with Pathology the only exception. . . Come up with something ''better'' please. . .

Oh we take both physiology and pathology. Thank u.

ACM10: For the first time we are on the same side of the debate.

It is every paramedics desire to bear the title 'Dr', but none of them wants to pass through the medical school and study the nitty-gritty of Anatomy, Physiology, Biochemistry, Pharmacology and Pathology. I was teaching a Med. Lab student Immunology, he continued to interrupt me, telling me that I was paying attention to details, reminding me that he is not a studying Med/Surg. Explaining further that he only need a general overview of the course to enable him pass exam. Tommorrow, the same guy will rub shoulders with doctors in the hospital.

Don't be ignorant and like u're not. B.pharm students study Physiology, Anatomy, and Biochemistry. We sleep and wake up with pharmacology. In addition, pharmD students study pathology and pharmacovigilance with these.. Say something else puhleeeeezzz!

obayaya: Can you please kindly share how that's gonna happen?

Thanks

When m back from church

obayaya: Bros!!! I'll have to tell you sharrap for a second time. no offence.

With all due respect to the academia and the so called technocrats in pharmacy, They are probably good in pharmacy and pharmacology but they are poor administrators and policy formulators.

In Nigeria today, all pharmacists do is sit in the hospital dispensing drugs or set up a phantom pharmaceutical companies and start importing drugs from countries like Vietnam. VIETNAM for God's sake.

and This Pharm.D shit is all they could come up with? as a way of addressing the shortcomings of Pharmacy in Nigeria? Like seriously? This degree IMHO is a way of justifying their sitting in the hospitals. And will give them more impetus to keep drowning in mediocrity.

Canada still accepts B.Pharm as minimum requirement, even Vietnam. Yet their drug making industry is still active.

So spare me your rants and your grammar

It's so funny how u seem to know the pharmacy profession more than the people practicing it.

obayaya: Typical of Nigerians. Instead of trying to revive our non existent drug manufacturing sector, they are more obsessed in drifting into another role.

As if pharmacist haven't always helped doctors in recommending drugs and monitoring patients.

And what is the non existent manufacturing sector u're talking about? We have the best Pharmaceutical Industry in Africa second only to South Africa. Bring ur stats! What are you talking about?

le bien connu: Going by the extant rivalry between the pharmacists and the doctors in Nigeria I would say the pharmacists should just concentrate on the drugs and leave the patients to the doctors. Two drivers cannot drive the same bus at the same time. At least for peace to reign.

When our mates all over the world are concentrating on the patients?

I'm part of a clinical pharmacy forum on Facebook.

Let me show you wat a clinical pharmacist said.

Dr Andrew: On tuesday next week,my indefatigable PSN
chairman of Cross River state is going to faciliate
a meeting between a Neurologist,himself,myself
and a couple of other pharmacists in UCTH on
the need for us to participate in Neurology
related ward round.Am happy to participate in
this forthcoming meeting and which I know will b
fruitful but having looked at d course contents of
Neurology,I discovered it is a big and wide
field.See what I found that which I feel a
pharmacist who wishes to participate in such
ward round should know: alzheimer
disease,headache,pain,parkinson disease,multipl
e sclerosis,seizures,stroke/CVD,autism,brain
cancer,clinical trials,genomic medicines,medical
practices and legal issues,neurosurgery,sleep
disorders,spinal disorders,aphasia,apraxia and
related syndromes,bipolar affective
disorders,borderline personality disorders,cocai
ne-related psychiatric disorders,conversion
disorders,dementia in motor neuron
disease,dementia with Lewy bodies,depressi
on,dysrthymic disorders,failure to thrive in
elderly adults,frontal lobe syndrome,fronto
temporal dementia and frontotemporal lobar
degeneration,Huntington disease dementia,mild
cognitive impairment,neuroleptic malignant
syndrome,neurological manifestation of uremic
encephalopathy,neurological manifestation of
vascular dementia,panic disorder,pick
disease,schizoaffective disorder,schizo
phrenia,sleep disorders,somatic symptom
disorders,spatial neglect,Wernicke-Korsakoff
syndrome,etc.What are d jobs of pharmacists
that would participate in this kind of ward round?
Simple but not simple,familiarise yourself with all
d drugs that are used in these conditions,d right
dosing,interactions with other drugs in case
patients have co-morbid conditions,etc and
finally familiarize yourself with all d current
treatment guidelines in d management of those
conditions and know the resources to consult in
case u want to resolve drug therapy problems.Do
all these and b respected as a pharmacist
providing PC to ur patients

Dr Wale Anigilaje
Andrew : the scope seems wide but some of this
pathology are based on anatomical distinctions ,
useful to know what they mean and their clinical
differences but the focus of a Pharmacist is on the
DRUGs : it's uses , dosage adjustment , drug- drug
interactions, drug- test interactions, adverse effects
of drugs used . Adverse effects of drugs used in the
presence of co-morbidity , drugs optimisation ,
drugs cost- benefit analysis , drugs optimisation ,
therapeutic drug monitoring and dosage
individualisation in some specific drugs with narrow
therapeutic window etc

We're moving forward! No B.pharm pharmacist would be so knowledgeable. I met a 500L student in my school who doesn't know what hypercapnea is, and u want us to keep focusing on the drugs?

Fear God nw!

How useful am I if I know the structure of all the antihistamines buh can't identify a skin lesion or an ordinary fungal infection? Pls read the article again!