₦airaland Forum

lakhadimar: Last month i got a copy at the BOOKSELLERS BOOKSHOP at jericho road in ibadan

Actually, you can get an online copy for free to read or download.

You can find it here: http://archive.org/stream/historyofyorubas00john/historyofyorubas00john_djvu.txt

ciao

Ptolomeus: Dear friend Africaman:
Thank you very much for your clear answer!.
You are always very friendly.
I am very grateful to you for your good will.
You may count on my unconditional friendship, always.
A afetuoso greeting!

It was my pleasure Ptolomeus, sorry I'm just responding now.

shymexx: I asked you to read more on why London was chosen as the Capital of the UK because it actually betrays your agenda. However, it gives credence to why Ibadan should be the Capital of any Yoruba country. London was made the Capital by the Normans because it was the largest city in England (and it's) at that point in history. Before London, the Romans used Colchester as the capital city. Saxons chose Winchester and Vikings used York..

Hi,

I would similarly argue that the Yoruba commonwealth has also had a few historical capitals. For instance: Ile-Ife was the capital of the early Yoruba Commonwealth, Oyo-Ile was the capital of the old Oyo Empire/Alafinate, Lagos was the capital of the Lagos Colony & Protectorate with Lagos being the colony and the rest of the Southwest-Naija area being the protectorate,
Ibadan was Western Nigeria regional capital and most populous and militarily powerful Yoruba city after the Oyo Empire/Alafinate collapsed.

shymexx: Anyway, I'm also not too inclined towards the choice of Ibadan, since Ibadan has always been a city - and it's still a city. However, Ondo is out of the equation due to its location. I would like a situation whereby a new city would be built from the scratch. And it has to geographically in a safe and barren place. Probably somewhere around[b] Oyo/Ogun/Osun/Ondo axis[/b].

Check out Musiwa/Becomerich's old thread on a new capital city called odua city(with a map), located around the general area you have just designated(bolded).

Here is the Odua City thread with map: 'The Building Of Modern Odua City In Osun,ondo And Oyo And Ogun See'.

The link: https://www.nairaland.com/420672/building-modern-odua-city-osunondo

ciao

Dudu_Negro: First and foremost, there has been discussions for years on how to transform Yoruba politics in the eventual return to regional power. The concensus in West is to go Parliamentarian. What does this mean?

It means a co-share of decision making between democratically elected politicians who hold a strong worldview and traditional land barons who hold a conservative position on customs and tradition. This will give us a diverse and balanced political stability. This system is consistent with Yoruba historical rulership.

I could be wrong but my suspicion is that under such configuration, we will do away with states and instead have Ijeshaland, Ijebuland, Igbomina, Egbaland, Eko, Ilorin, and so on as the replacement for states. Each of these lands will be sub-composed into constituencies such as Ikeja, Agege, Badagry, Isheri, Ota, Sagamu, Abeokuta, Idanre, Okitipupa, Akure, Owo, Ede, Saki, Offa, and so on....

Each commonwealth land will be a designate for a particular and specific socio-cultural value. This value ought to be assigned on the basis of comparative advantage.

So what comparative advantage does Akure have and is best at than any otjer Yorubaland? Whatever it is, that is what you should be crusading for........not the seat of Yoruba politicalpower. Oyo has the best advantage for Yoruba political power and history and customs supports this. We should be moving forward from our point of detachment from Nigeria, not regressing. Changing seat of political power is a regress, not to say it is impossible and impractical.

Hi,

I believe the Yoruba subgroups such as: Oyo, Ondo, Oke-Ogun, Owo, Osun, Ibadan, Ibarapa, Ijebu, Ijesa, Ikale, Ilaje, Egba, Egbado, Eko, Akoko etc, were described/designated as traditional states in some circles. I think that is why the foremost monarchs in those areas were described by the colonial overlords as the paramount traditional rulers. In which case we have the Olowo as the traditional ruler of the Owo traditonal state, the same logic applying over large parts of Yoruba land. I view the modern states of Nigeria with their governors as a contemporary equivalent of our traditional administrative structures.

We now have a situation where the Ijebu want an Ijebu state, the Ibadan want Ibadan state, the Ife want Oduduwa state, the Ijesha want Owa state etc. Therefore, I think each Yorubaland represents a traditional state and should form a modern Yoruba state within a Yoruba Region/Megastate of Nigeria or within a Yoruba Independent Sovereign Nation State.

ciao

Here are the links to some online Yoruba History books:

The history of the Yorubas : from the earliest times to the beginning of the British Protectorate by Johnson, Samuel, d. 1901; Johnson, O. (Obadiah) (c) (1921):
http://archive.org/stream/historyofyorubas00john/historyofyorubas00john_djvu.txt


The Yoruba Today by J.S Eades ( c ) 1980:
http://lucy.ukc.ac.uk/YorubaT/


The Yoruba-Speaking peoples of the slave coast of west Africa by W.B Ellis (c) 1891 ? :
http://www.sacred-texts.com/afr/yor/yor02.htm


17 years in the Yoruba country by Anna Hinderer(1873):
http://archive.org/details/seventeenyearsi00honegoog

afam4eva: What the OP is suggesting is not that every state should do everything. They can have a little of everything and still have a USP. I see no reason why Enugu can't have it's own Onitsha, NNewi, Aba and Abakaliki even if it's in a small way. And i see no reason why Onitsha despite being a commercial city will not have the livability of Enugu and be an Agricultural state. I see no reason why Ebonyi, despite having Agriculture as it's strong point cannot have a small commercial town or a tourist haven.

Arkansas and Arizona despie being Agricultural states also have some cities that can hold their own. Atlanta is best known for oil and gas(i'm hearing this for the first time) but that's where CNN and Cocacola is headquartered. California is known for entertainment, so is New York, Las Vegas, Atlanta, Chi town, Nashville etc. I think the US and Germany like the OP pointed out represents the way Igbos are known to do things. Going the way of Regional integration will mean that only Enugu, Onitsha, Aba and probably Owerri will be developed. What will happen to Awka, Orlu, Okigwe, Nsukka, Oraifite, Arochukwu, Ohafia, Abakaliki, Afikpo etc.

@OP, you're spot on....

I hope you don't mind me butting in here ?

How about having a regional government with several provincial governments inside it ? So there would be local, provincial and regional tiers of government, each with it's own responsibilities. Each province would have its own capital city and subsidiary cities, having the freedom to develop as they see fit. The regional government can tackle the overall problems, ie region wide roads, rather than the federal or current state government. Things like erosion(I think this occurs in both the southeast and southwest), deforestation(all over the south at least), desertificationin the north), these can be tackled by regional governments also, probably more effectively than the current state and federal governments. Regions with common problems may even cooperate in solving them. Just a thought.

Bim Adewunmi is a she. Check out below.
Maggie Scott in conversation with Bim Adewunmi. On youtube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YnZ6G2oTaU8

ciao

You're welcome Marian Anikulapo.

Fela himself sang 'I no be gentleman at all o!'.

odigba

marianikulapo: Hello,I'm brazilian,I have African heritage and very proud of it.
I wantes to tattoo "My mind,don't be afraid',and,haveing the yoruba knowledge I have,I had a 'Emi mi mase beru' tattoo,since I found no good yoruba-english dictionary in the internet and the yoruba-portuguese...pity.
Can you help me,fellas?
Mariana Anikulapo

Hello,

Well, "Emi mi mase beru" is a nearly accurate translation of "My mind, don't be afraid".
However, the Yoruba word for "mind" and also for "heart" is "okan", whereas the word for "Spirit" is "Emi".

So an exact translation would be: "Okan mi mase beru" -> "My mind, don't be afraid"
Your original translation "Emi mi mase beru", is the best translation however, because it conveys the right sense of translation from a Yoruba point of view, so don't change it.

I just gave you the above explanation for your information.

You can try this Yoruba -> Portuguese dictionary here: http://glosbe.com/pt/yo/

Good luck.

Odabo

Congratulations Starflux and good luck with your learning.

You might find this useful: http://www.africa.uga.edu/Yoruba/pronunciation.html


odabo.

Anyone wanting to learn the Fulani/Fulfulde/Peul languge should please see:

"A Vocabulary of Primary Science and Mathematics in Nine Nigerian Languages: Fulfulde, Izon, Yoruba", it is a publication of the Nigerian Educational Research Development Council(NERDC), in Sherda Abuja.

Also this website which has links to Fulani/Fulfulde/Peul language learning resources at the bottom of that page. I believe you have to be registered on the site before you are allowed to download the materials. Here is the link:

http://www.abibitumikasa.com/forums/abibitumi-kasa-afrikan-language-institute/42369-fula-language-texts-1850-1890-see-pdf-attachments.html


Hope this helps.

Hi Starflux,

I think the dictionary is okay. I have perused it before, however I haven't really read the other books. But they do look alright. Aren't there any universities, colleges or community organisations offering short courses in Yoruba, where you live ? Maybe it would be better to attend such courses where you are based, if theer are any, that is.


Odabo

Hello Starflux,

The way you have it up there, the pattern for 'Ologinni' looks like this (mid-high-low-high) ie rising and falling and rising again. However, as far as I am aware of, it should actually be a tone pattern of (mid-high-low-low), so it has to be rising and falling. Therefore you should have a (`) on the last tone, not a (´). Hope that helps.

The written form with these symbols (^,¨), (~), are to be found in mostly old Yoruba written form. Modern Yoruba no longer uses these symbols. The (^) simply means (high-low) ie a high tone followed by a low tone, (´) followed by (`) or (´)(`).

The (~) was used to write words that represent a combination of tones, for example the word for 'Smell' is 'Oorun', with this pattern (`)(´)(`). The tone pattern for this is (low-high-low). Using this symbol (~) known as a tilde, it will be written as 'Orun', just one 'O' with the tilde on top.

See here: http://www.learnyoruba.com/ORTHOGRAPHY_1.pdf, for further explanation.


As for 'Sister-in-law', well the general word for 'in-law' in Yoruba is 'Ana' with tone pattern (low-mid) ie (`)( ). Note it has the same spelling as the word for 'Yesterday' → 'Ana', but a different tone pattern, which is: (low-high) ie (`)(´).

Now to describe your sister in-law, you would say 'My in-law who is my brother's wife' -> 'Ana mi, iyawo egbon mi'.


For modern Standard Yoruba orthography and accepted tonal marks, try and download this Yoruba language language primer here: http://www.learnyoruba.com/Downloads/YorubaPrimer.pdf
You can also look again at this site: http://www.scribd.com/doc/5967313/GrammarYoruba


It was produced based on the work of Professor Ayo Bamgbose, the foremost linguistic authority on modern Yoruba. A lot of his work underpins modern Yoruba language writing form.

You can also try their Yoruba Readers Club: http://www.learnyoruba.com/readers.htm


odabo

Ptolomeus: Obviously no. Ketu was not alone.
But somehow I made mention of Ketu.
Did you know that in Ketu, they worshiped the Ossossi Orisa?
Did you know the basics of worship Ossossi disappeared in Africa until the arrival of returnees from Brazil?
That was one reason for my comment.
Obviously, I know that many cities were destroyed.
My respect!

Ketu was attacked many times by Dahomey, but ti was always rebuilt. Here is a link to the Ketu town, commune and arindissement in Benin republic on wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/K%C3%A9tou,_Benin and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ketu_(Benin)

Odabo

Ptolomeus: I would like to ask for help to friends.
In the study of the historical traditions of the Yoruba, arise some terms are confusing me. I would ask your help to know the following effects:

The Yoruba word "hehe" (Gege) translated as "foreigner", what people meant before the colonialism?
That word was derogatory connotations, or was simply a form of reference?

What is the difference between the terms "Nago" and "Anago"?

From now I deeply appreciate the collaboration.

I don't think I know 'hehe'. If you meant 'Gege', in modern Yoruba it is a slang term for 'guy'. I don't know of it's precolonial meaning.

'Nago' is just the short form of 'Anago', so they are the same thing. It's like somenody named 'Carlos' and you call them 'Carl' for short. You have that type of shortening in English as well.

StarFlux: Hello again, thanks for keeping the thread alive!
Now a question has come up. English is not my first language, so I'm not sure if I'm understanding this correctly:

http://www.africa.uga.edu/Yoruba/grammar.html (I know the site gives an example, but I have to make sure).

Does this mean it should be qualifer first then noun (qualifier + noun): ibusun tiyin (bed yours (plural)), is this correct? Also, tiyin is plural form of your, and yin is singular? I have also seen tirc. What is more correct, yin or tirc, or are both used in different situations, or are they equal? Sorry for questions.

Also: check this site out guys, an amazing site with a lot of recordings of Yoruba: http://fsi-language-courses.org/Content.php?page=Yoruba

One more q: how do you pronounce tìrç? tire (with a falling tone)?

Hello Starflux,
To answer your other questions:


For the plurals we can have:

2)
a) 'Your Bed' -> 'Ibusun tire'. If the person speaking is the same age or older than the person he/she is speaking to, then we say Ibusun tire. It could be two people who are friends talking or a parent talking to a child or even a teacher talking to a student.

b) 'Your Bed' -> 'Ibusun tiyin'. If the person speaking is younger than the person he/she is speaking to. For example a child talking to her parent, a student to a teacher or a worker talking to their boss at work.

c) 'Your Bed' -> 'Ibusun tiyin'. When talking to more than one person regardless of age.


3) I believe 'tire' is pronounced with a rising tone, because it is a low tone followed by a middle tone.


I hope my explanation is clear.


Odabo.

StarFlux: Hello again, thanks for keeping the thread alive!
Now a question has come up. English is not my first language, so I'm not sure if I'm understanding this correctly:

http://www.africa.uga.edu/Yoruba/grammar.html (I know the site gives an example, but I have to make sure).

Does this mean it should be qualifer first then noun (qualifier + noun): ibusun tiyin (bed yours (plural)), is this correct? Also, tiyin is plural form of your, and yin is singular? I have also seen tirc. What is more correct, yin or tirc, or are both used in different situations, or are they equal? Sorry for questions.

Also: check this site out guys, an amazing site with a lot of recordings of Yoruba: http://fsi-language-courses.org/Content.php?page=Yoruba

One more q: how do you pronounce tìrç? tire (with a falling tone)?

Hello Starflux,
I will try to answer your questions.

In Yoruba, the noun comes first before the qualifier, it is the other way round in English:

For example 'White Shirt' (qualifier + noun) translated into Yoruba will be 'Ewu Funfun' (noun + qualifier).

Note that 'White' -> 'Funfun'
and
'Shirt' -> 'Ewu'


Can you see how it works ? And also the difference between English order and Yoruba order ?

StarFlux: Hello again, thanks for keeping the thread alive!
Now a question has come up. English is not my first language, so I'm not sure if I'm understanding this correctly:

http://www.africa.uga.edu/Yoruba/grammar.html (I know the site gives an example, but I have to make sure).

Does this mean it should be qualifer first then noun (qualifier + noun): ibusun tiyin (bed yours (plural)), is this correct? Also, tiyin is plural form of your, and yin is singular? I have also seen tirc. What is more correct, yin or tirc, or are both used in different situations, or are they equal? Sorry for questions.

Also: check this site out guys, an amazing site with a lot of recordings of Yoruba: http://fsi-language-courses.org/Content.php?page=Yoruba

One more q: how do you pronounce tìrç? tire (with a falling tone)?

Hello Starflux,
I will try to answer your questions.

In Yoruba, the noun comes first before the qualifier, it is the other way round in English:

For example 'White Shirt' (qualifier + noun) translated into Yoruba will be 'Ewu Funfun' (noun + qualifier).

Can you see the difference ?

Ptolomeus: @ StarFlux
I regret not being able to help more. I wish I could. I am a student of Yoruba culture and traditions, and for me it is essential to understand certain texts.
I think the help of Africaman is very positive for both!
The problem I have is that I'm not fluent in English, and development of Yoruba with Spanish is still far away.

@ Africaman
Mó Juba!
Thank you very much for your input. I live thousands of miles from Nigeria, and is often difficult to find such collaboration.
I am eternally grateful.
Can you count on me to it as necessary.
Alaafia lai lai!

Ptolomeus, it was a pleasure.
Here is a link to a Yoruba -> Portuguese dictionary, I think you speak spanish, but you might find it useful still.
Here is the link: http://glosbe.com/pt/yo/

For example, type in the Yoruba word for a house, "ile", it will produce the Portuguese translation. I hope you find it useful too.

Odabo.

StarFlux: Hello! Thanks for the reply.

I see you mention language software, there is actually one available: http://2speaklanguages.co.uk/2speak-yoruba-software/?gclid=CJPM6ffvkbECFSU3cgodcmnucw
But I see you. 20mill speakers you would expect more available material, sadly that isn't the case.

Currently I don't have any friends/contacts speaking Yoruba, but I might start looking on Nairaland if I'm lost. So yes, I hope it sorts out too.
The main reason I want to have a proper grasp of the phonetics, is that I believe that would make it far easier writing it. How are you supposed to write phonetics if you don't know the sounds? Unfortunately, it is a written exam I have to take, which means I need to know the phonetics of the language regardless. Other than that, if you don't intend to speak, I can see the why you don't put much time into it.
Shame they won't release that dictionary, I wonder why?

Thanks again for the reply, friend!

Thanks Africaman! I've been on the site before, but I notice now how good it really is.

Thanks!

You're most welcome Starflux and it was a pleasure.

odabo.

Hello Starflux,

Check out http://www.learnyoruba.com/ The section on phonology(which you can reach from the home page by the way) is here: http://www.learnyoruba.com/phonology.htm

I suggest you peruse the whole site. It is very informative and very instructive. For when learning the Yoruba alphabet, click on the letter and you get the correct pronounciation. It also teaches some basic morphology amongst other topics.

Good luck in your linguistic adventures...

Odabo

@Moderators/Admin, please leave in this section as a sticky until Saturday May 2nd, 2008, thanks.


Dear London based members,

I know this is a bit late in the day, however, I'd still like to remind you all to remember to vote on Friday 1st May 08.

I would also like to inform you of the Christian Choice, an alliance of both the Christian Party and the Christian People's Alliance. Please see their website for details.


This party's candidate wants to protect things like family values, and to keep God in the political affairs of the city/nation. It is unlikely their candidate will win the mayoral elections, however if enough people vote, then the party will be able to secure a seat on the London-wide list for the greater London Assembly.

I would like to urge all believers to choose Alan Craig(Christian Choice) as their first choice on the ballot, then their prefered candidate(if different) as second choice. This will go towards winning a seat on the London assembly for the christian choice, while their prefered candidate might still win the mayoralty with enough second-choice votes.

Thank you all.

Nobel Prize-winning author Wole Soyinka returns to Biafra to confront the ghosts of his past.

UK NIA-ans can simply tune in on the day; everyone else can follow the programme on the net here.

Biggest Yoruba party in the UK

Theme: Ranti omo eni ti iwo nse(remember the son of whom thou art)


Date: Saturday, 11th August 2007
Time: 12NOON - 9PM.
Venue: Royal Arsenal Gardens, Woolwich(nr Waterfront leisure centre).

Free

Performances:

Artistes: Sunny Melody, Segun Dynamic, Wale Thompsom etc
Djs: Shy-Shy, DJ Murhy, Kashif da Flash
Asa Ibile: Alujo by Ayan the 1st, Ewi ati Owe, Comedy


Fun Activities:

Competitions(Prizes to be won: Cash, Flight Tickets, Textiles, Beauty Hampers)
Rara(Yoruba Rap), Gele wrapping, Yoruba Dance, Cute Dresser, Owe(Proverbs)

Children Affairs:

Language, Music, Moral
Workshops
Textile Design
Dress-up Parade
Body Adornment
Folktales and Songs
Funfair Games
Opon Ayo
Bouncy Castle

From: Free Newspaper: African Trumpet, Vol 13 no 190 July 18 - 31 2007 edition

Interesting & entertaing thread.

My fellow Nigerians.,
Although I am a rare poster in here, allow me to make a suggestion.
The Regent's Park in north west/central London might be a good venue.
There is a sizable lake where you can hire row boats for about six pounds per person(adults), children cost a bit less.
It also houses the London zoo, the Regent's canal with the Chinese restaurant shaped like a boat on the canal.
There are boat trips available on the canal all the way to Little Venice.
The park has a few cafes, open air theatre/concerts, playing areas for football, frisbees etc.
It would be a great day for a picnic, since it is a large park one entance is near to Baker Street Tube Station(nr Madam Tussaud's wax works), which is about a 5 minute bus ride to Oxford Streert/Marble Arch. Another end is near Camden Town(think about the Camden markets etc). This I believe, would be a good place to show folks coming from abroad cos of the touristy feel.

So folks, whatdyathink ?

@Grafikdon, what about the guy she jilted after their traditional wedding ?
And the girl herself, what is she doing now ? How about her family, what are they saying now ?